MSB Launches Two New DAC’s

**Kingsrule** · July 10, 2018, 10:01 AM

Sorry..reread post and my questions were answered

Thanks, Mike

**KeithR** · July 10, 2018, 01:20 PM

still waiting on my unit...anyone receive theirs?

**AJR** · July 10, 2018, 01:38 PM

Still waiting... Apparently 2 more weeks.

**MarinJim** · July 12, 2018, 10:48 PM

Well, now every one has me completely interested in MBS! Great reading and might work something out with Mike. It is always a pleasure and informative talking with him.

**AJR** · July 24, 2018, 05:22 AM

Do any MSB Premier purchasers have an update on their delivery date? Seems like mine is now early August (apparently waiting for a part to be delivered).

**Jabba** · July 24, 2018, 06:37 AM

On last friday my order was in the metal finisher. And they wrote as soon as it come back we will ship. My dealer will contact MSB tomorrow and hopefully the message will be positive.

The Indian dealer has reporter that Premier DAC is too good. I hope he is right and I cross my fingers that my DAC is done.

**brodricj** · July 24, 2018, 07:25 AM

I had the pleasure of auditioning a fully tricked-up MSB Select DAC and Transport over the weekend. As much as I like my Esoteric, I liked the MSB also. Two flavors of good.

**AJR** · July 24, 2018, 07:52 AM

I saw your posts on an Esoteric thread. What did you end up with?

**brodricj** · July 24, 2018, 07:58 AM

I've owned Esoteric since October 2017. I saw my first MSB anything 2 days ago. I'd be equally happy owning either, but financially poorer owning MSB.

**AJR** · July 24, 2018, 08:05 AM

Definitely not cheap! Agree both MSB and Esoteric are top drawer.

**KeithR** · July 24, 2018, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by AJR

Do any MSB Premier purchasers have an update on their delivery date? Seems like mine is now early August (apparently waiting for a part to be delivered).

Sounds about right. Mine is delayed too. I wish MSB had just promised people Labor Day and underpromised/overdelivered rather than saying it would be out in June.

**MarinJim** · July 24, 2018, 03:34 PM

Could you please elaborate more on what Esoteric you have and how they both compared to each other? I have a Luxman DA-08 and am very impressed with it, but I am very interested int the MSB Premier.

**Mike** · July 24, 2018, 03:44 PM

I frankly see them as different as, my Grandmother used to say, chalk and cheese, but that’s me.

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**brodricj** · July 24, 2018, 06:39 PM

@MarinJim Me? I have N-01, which I like very much. I didn't hear the MSB Select in my system, so any sonic comparison between it in somebody else's system and the Esoteric in mine is meaningless.

**AJR** · July 28, 2018, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by KeithR

Sounds about right. Mine is delayed too. I wish MSB had just promised people Labor Day and underpromised/overdelivered rather than saying it would be out in June.

Agree. Although my dealer has followed up and the parts issue apparently was genuinely unexpected. Maybe not enough time contingency built in. Anyways, at least it keeps the anticipation levels running high...

**Jabba** · July 28, 2018, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by AJR

Agree. Although my dealer has followed up and the parts issue apparently was genuinely unexpected. Maybe not enough time contingency built in. Anyways, at least it keeps the anticipation levels running high...

It will be august for me too. My dealer told me that they have 100 chassis at the finisher. Half of them are Premium, a quarter is Discrete and rest is Reference and Select! Thats a lot of money!

**Alpinist** · July 28, 2018, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Jabba

It will be august for me too. My dealer told me that they have 100 chassis at the finisher. Half of them are Premium, a quarter is Discrete and rest is Reference and Select! Thats a lot of money!

The bottleneck is in the anodizing process, which they outsource to a vendor. Hopefully they can solve this issue by eventually bringing the anodizing process in-house.

Ken

**AJR** · July 28, 2018, 09:46 AM

Not what they told me (not saying you are wrong - am sure you are right). Definitely said waiting on a ‘part’.

**AJR** · July 28, 2018, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Jabba

It will be august for me too. My dealer told me that they have 100 chassis at the finisher. Half of them are Premium, a quarter is Discrete and rest is Reference and Select! Thats a lot of money!

hope Mike is on commission as he must be ‘responsible’

for a fair few of them

**Mike** · July 28, 2018, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by AJR

hope Mike is on commission as he must be ‘responsible’

for a fair few of them

A few...

Can’t wait to get my pimped out Premier and Discrete.

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**Bobvin** · July 28, 2018, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

The bottleneck is in the anodizing process, which they outsource to a vendor. Hopefully they can solve this issue by eventually bringing the anodizing process in-house.

Ken

Ugh, anodizing... chemical tanks and regulatory compliance. I farm that out to a vendor, not a material component to my business so will always farm it out as I expect is the case for electronics companies as well. (I do provide an occasional purified water system to anodizer companies.)

**Ritmo** · July 28, 2018, 06:27 PM

The Premier is a highly anticipated DAC. I look forward to Mike getting his so we can do a “test drive”.

It’s a great time to be an audio and music lover.

**Alpinist** · July 28, 2018, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Bobvin

Ugh, anodizing... chemical tanks and regulatory compliance. I farm that out to a vendor, not a material component to my business so will always farm it out as I expect is the case for electronics companies as well. (I do provide an occasional purified water system to anodizer companies.)

Bob,

This is interesting. Maybe the solution is to employ multiple vendors to complete the anodizing process. As MSB has ramped up production in recent months, it appears they have more units than their vendor can handle and wait times appear to have increased.

Ken

**Mike Lavigne** · July 28, 2018, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Bob,

This is interesting. Maybe the solution is to employ multiple vendors to complete the anodizing process. As MSB has ramped up production in recent months, it appears they have more units than their vendor can handle and wait times appear to have increased.

Ken

darTZeel has the same hang up in Switzerland with anodizing, and metal finishing. the QC level is uncompromising in both cases. the 'art' of metal finishing is not a trivial thing.

the trick with anodizing is getting the shade of color just right and consistent batch to batch. the dart 458/468 amps also have a surface texture that takes considerable skill to achieve.

so having multiple vendors is really not an option. it's too specialized.

**brodricj** · July 28, 2018, 08:59 PM

Mike is right. For anodizing you need a sole vendor. It's difficult enough for a sole vendor to get the anodized finish consistent, try getting different vendors to come up with the same finish. You'd be throwing away a lot of metal that didn't color match perfectly.

**UltraFast69** · July 29, 2018, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by brodricj

Mike is right. For anodizing you need a sole vendor. It's difficult enough for a sole vendor to get the anodized finish consistent, try getting different vendors to come up with the same finish. You'd be throwing away a lot of metal that didn't color match perfectly.

Yes, Commercial Suicide!

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**vortrex** · August 7, 2018, 09:07 AM

Any update on your DAC shipments? Anyone else besides Mike getting the Discrete with the renderer?

**AJR** · August 7, 2018, 12:49 PM

Mine is supposed to be shipped out end of next week

**KeithR** · August 7, 2018, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by vortrex

Any update on your DAC shipments? Anyone else besides Mike getting the Discrete with the renderer?

Mine is at my dealer's breaking in

**vortrex** · August 8, 2018, 02:35 PM

Does anyone plan on using theirs without a separate pre-amp?

**Mike** · August 8, 2018, 02:36 PM

Mine is on a truck on it's way here.

**Alpinist** · August 8, 2018, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Mine is on a truck on it's way here.

Hi Mike,

Will your MSB Premier and Discreet DACs be the first ones delivered in the USA?

Thanks,
Ken

**Mike** · August 8, 2018, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Hi Mike,

Will your MSB Premier and Discreet DACs be the first ones delivered in the USA?

Thanks,
Ken

I believe 10 Premier’s went out to the world (not just U.S.) around the same time. So, it all depends on geography and the reliability of FedEx. Discrete’s are next.

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**AJR** · August 8, 2018, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by vortrex

Does anyone plan on using theirs without a separate pre-amp?

Hi Vortrex,

I am home auditioning a Gryphon power amp (and maybe one or two others) shortly after my MSB Premier arrives to compare to my Diablo 300. If I like it and buy it I will use the volume control on the MSB Premier as my preamp - at least for a while until I rebuild my audio war chest and then start auditioning separate preamps to compare to the MSB Premier.

**AJR** · August 9, 2018, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Mine is on a truck on it's way here.

Has the truck arrived?! Mine is being shipped and apparently will arrive latter part of next week.

**KeithR** · August 9, 2018, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by vortrex

Does anyone plan on using theirs without a separate pre-amp?

You really need to step up to Ref/Select to run without preamp. The Premier doesn't have the top notch volume control and it isn't an option.

**Kingsrule** · August 9, 2018, 05:11 PM

So u actually have heard the Premier?

**Alpinist** · August 9, 2018, 05:30 PM

I agree that the Premier needs to be listened to first before any determination is made about the need for a preamp. It may surprise you. It will also depend on the quality of the preamp you’re removing.

Ken

**KeithR** · August 10, 2018, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Kingsrule

So u actually have heard the Premier?

Well, I owned the Analog dac for 3 years and have heard the Reference and Select pretty extensively. The Analog dac volume control never worked in my system, perhaps it might in others. It sounded like most passives. The Ref and Select have caused many to forego a preamp - in my testing, I still preferred my Music First to the Ref dac but it was much closer. So that is where I base my Premier dac thoughts as it has an inferior volume control to the Ref/Select (the constant impedance one).

I will be comparing the Premier to the Reference tomorrow actually. I also will compare the Premier standard double PS to the big PowerBase. I am enthused by preliminary Premier thoughts from my dealer, but will make my own decision.

**Ctsooner** · August 10, 2018, 11:50 AM

Mike, is the pre/DAC you are talking bout newer than the set up I heard?

**Mike** · August 10, 2018, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Ctsooner

Mike, is the pre/DAC you are talking bout newer than the set up I heard?

You heard my Select II. I have a pimped out Premier and Discrete coming. Those models use the same design approach as the top of the line Select II, but to a lesser extent to reduce costs.

**Ctsooner** · August 10, 2018, 12:07 PM

Gottcha. Thanks. Well, I can say that the top is a great unit, lol.

**AJR** · August 11, 2018, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by KeithR

Well, I owned the Analog dac for 3 years and have heard the Reference and Select pretty extensively. The Analog dac volume control never worked in my system, perhaps it might in others. It sounded like most passives. The Ref and Select have caused many to forego a preamp - in my testing, I still preferred my Music First to the Ref dac but it was much closer. So that is where I base my Premier dac thoughts as it has an inferior volume control to the Ref/Select (the constant impedance one).

I will be comparing the Premier to the Reference tomorrow actually. I also will compare the Premier standard double PS to the big PowerBase. I am enthused by preliminary Premier thoughts from my dealer, but will make my own decision.

Well I can’t wait for Keith’s thoughts. And Mike’s.

**MarinJim** · August 11, 2018, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

You heard my Select II. I have a pimped out Premier and Discrete coming. Those models use the same design approach as the top of the line Select II, but to a lesser extent to reduce costs.

I would be really interested in a company's trickle down philosophy. As an example, does it cost 50% more retail for a 5% improvement in sound and or parts quality? I am all for 50% improvement for 5% increase in cost.

**still-one** · August 11, 2018, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by MarinJim

I would be really interested in a company's trickle down philosophy. As an example, does it cost 50% more retail for a 5% improvement in sound and or parts quality? I am all for 50% improvement for 5% increase in cost.

If only our hobby worked that way. It seems there is a price to pay for exclusivity and hopefully that 5%.

**Doug** · August 17, 2018, 03:46 PM

Has anyone been able to compare the Analog DAC to the Discrete DAC? I am curious what your opinions are about the sound difference...

**Doug** · August 17, 2018, 03:46 PM

Has anyone been able to compare the Analog DAC to the Discrete DAC? I am curious what your opinions are about the sound difference...

**AJR** · August 23, 2018, 02:20 PM

Mike - dying to hear your thoughts on your MSB Premier.

Unfortunately mine doesn’t work - am working with MSB directly to work out the problem (I think it is the renderer module).

**Mike** · August 23, 2018, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by AJR

Mike - dying to hear your thoughts on your MSB Premier.

Unfortunately mine doesn’t work - am working with MSB directly to work out the problem (I think it is the renderer module).

It’s breaking in beautifully. No up and down, just getting better. Bass is really “wow” now and the soundstage is blossoming. Love it.

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**KeithR** · August 23, 2018, 04:33 PM

Glad the break-in is going well. I was very impressed with the soundstage and tonality of the Premier when I heard it two weeks ago for an extended demo. I'm actually curious how the Discrete will stack up now.

I'm returning next weekend to hear the Premier and Reference dacs. I felt the Reference had considerably more of that "not analog, but not digital" feeling in my first audition and i could just sink in a chair and listen for hours. But boy it comes at a significant price premium...

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