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May 13, 2019, 10:21 PM #1
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MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
Granted, I only have two days with my new Discrete. I got both modules from dealer, with the understanding that I will eventually keep only one.
The regular USB Quad / MQA module, and the current v2 Renderer module.
I know the Renderer is supposed to sound better, as everyone (including the dealer) say so, but for some reason I prefer the USB module.
My USB configuration: Using my Innuos ZENith MK3 as Roon server and streamer, Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Reference USB cable out to MSB Discrete. Sablon Ethernet cable from my fiber media converters to ZENith.
For The Renderer module, identical Ethernet cable to MSB. And Innuos only being a Roon server.
What gives?
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May 14, 2019, 12:44 AM #2
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May 14, 2019, 01:42 AM #3
Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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May 14, 2019, 07:03 AM #4
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Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
Well... I already have dual fiber media converters implemented for a while now, powered by a SOtM sPs-1000 linear power supply. Should accomplish similar thing with the GigaFoil.
My plan is to get the Uptone Audio etherRegen when it launches in a couple of months. It has been delayed a few times though
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May 14, 2019, 01:54 PM #5
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May 14, 2019, 01:59 PM #6
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Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
I did look at the new SOtM switch, but it's too expensive. The etherRegen is supposed to be cheaper. Rumors are about $600-$650
As I said before, I do have dual fiber media converters from TPLink that I use for electric isolation of Ethernet lines, similar in concept with what the GigaFoil does
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May 14, 2019, 02:05 PM #7
Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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May 14, 2019, 02:09 PM #8
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May 14, 2019, 02:21 PM #9
Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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May 14, 2019, 03:08 PM #10
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May 14, 2019, 03:31 PM #11
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May 14, 2019, 05:20 PM #12
Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
TP Link converters sound bad. 10Gtek much better. And u cannot use 1000mb on the V2 renderer. Its 100
How r u powering them? Stock wall wart is bad, iFi better, Sbooster types much better still....all easily heard with MSB. What ethernet cable after the TP Links? Thats important also.
Many over at Audiophile Style take a different light on things.....caveat emptor my friend......
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May 14, 2019, 05:23 PM #13
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Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
I am using a SOtM sPS-1000 linear power supply to power them.
The Ethernet Cable is Sablon Panatela : http://www.sablonaudio.com/index.php/signal but I am thinking of upgrading to a Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Reference Ethernet Cable, after the great experience I had with same line USB cable from SR.
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May 14, 2019, 06:53 PM #14
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- May 2015
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Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
I check with Jonathan from MSB. They are not compatible. Select DAC will not reclock the switch. This is his wordings
No, the Select cannot generate a 10MHz clock. A 10MHz clock is not useful for audio conversion as audio is not recorded at a division of 10MHz.
I assume you got the SOtM switch? This seems to be popular with the need for a 10MHz clock.
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May 14, 2019, 07:42 PM #15
Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
FNo, I have not purchased the SOtM switch yet. I have spoken with Alex from Alma Audio. He is currently using the SOtM switch and clocking off the Word Sync Output (44/48) on his Select II DAC. He cannot explain why it works because the frequencies don’t match, only that it does and it sounds phenomenal.
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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May 14, 2019, 10:00 PM #16
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Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
Don’t think you need a GigaFoil with an Innuos with isolated Ethernet.
Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12
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May 14, 2019, 10:06 PM #17
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May 15, 2019, 01:57 AM #18
MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
I had the pleasure of sitting next to an Innuos employee on the shuttle one morning here in Munich. We talked at length for about 20 minutes and at the end, concluded, in an Ethernet only environment, the GigaFoil/Keces did the same thing as the Innuos from an Ethernet filtering standpoint. Their main competition is Aurender and Melco.
I still want to get one to try though.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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May 15, 2019, 10:16 AM #19
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Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
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May 15, 2019, 10:43 AM #20
Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
That we never discussed. I was looking at it the other way: “what benefit would the Innuos provide if one is using the GigaFoil/Keces to the MSB Roon Renderer module?” The answer we concluded was none. But you know, I still want to try.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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May 15, 2019, 10:52 AM #21
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Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
I understand. But you need something to run a Roon Core (server), right? And an Innuos does a great job at that, even if only used as a server, and NOT a renderer. Obviously, it can be used for both, as Roon Core and Roon Endpoint (renderer, streamer, call it what you want).
And yes, I do believe from my own experience that servers matter. Be it an Innuos or the Roon's own Nucleus.
So, since I already have an Innuos (the ZENith MK3) that I use with Roon, and therefore there is no decision to be made whether I should buy one, the question becomes: when using an Innuos as a Server and Rendererer, does adding a GigaFoil on the Ethernet line feeding the Innuos improve anything? Honest question, as I don't know.
As for the MSB Discrete, it happened to be that the unit I have comes with both modules (USB and Renderer) with an understanding that I would keep only one. As my original post says, I am leaning towards keeping the USB module, as my USB streaming setup is already in place through my Innuos ZENith MK3 and my USB cable (so no decision to be made here), and SQ wise, I hear a slightly better sound, albeit subtle, vs. the Renderer module on my MSB. Perhaps adding a gigaFoil will improve the things with the Renderer module on my MSB. However, maybe adding the same GF on the Ethernet line to my Innuos unit will also improve things? I don't know...
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May 15, 2019, 10:55 AM #22
Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
Yes, Roon Nucleus+
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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May 15, 2019, 10:55 AM #23
Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
I spoke with Alex again and your point is a valid one. The clocking may not be working off the Select DAC’s Word Sync Output. It may be defaulting to the switch’s internal clock module. Trying to figure out what drove the improvement. Stay tuned.
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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May 15, 2019, 03:27 PM #24
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- Jan 2014
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- Los Angeles
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Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12
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May 15, 2019, 05:36 PM #25
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May 15, 2019, 07:04 PM #26
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- May 2015
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- 100
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May 15, 2019, 08:00 PM #27
Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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May 15, 2019, 08:51 PM #28
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- May 2015
- Posts
- 100
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May 16, 2019, 08:28 AM #29
Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
I’ve read the Pro USB is really good and eliminates the need for the optical ethernet filter. I’m really happy with the sound quality of the Renderer V2 in conjunction with the GigaFoilv4 Ethernet Filter. Adding the two Keces LPS has also made a nice difference. I’ll hold out for the Renderer V3, which should have an optical connection like the Pro USB.
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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May 16, 2019, 08:31 AM #30
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May 16, 2019, 08:42 AM #31
Re: MSB Discrete: USB module better than Renderer module!
"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
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