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  1. #1
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    MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Fellow ASs, I have two questions. Probably already covered in other threads but here goes:

    1. Clock. How much better is the Femto 93 clock compared to the standard-issue MSB Premier clock? Worth the $5k or so?

    2. Pre-amp. If I upgraded my Premier DAC to the Reference and used that as my pre-amp instead of (and sold) my Gryphon Pandora, would I lose anything in terms of SQ? Or stick with my Pandora?

    My long term goal is a speaker upgrade, but want to optimise my electronics first.

    Andrew
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  2. #2
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Be content with what you have, it all looks good to me. Failing that, upgrade your S3Mk2 to M3.
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
    | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali

  3. #3
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    Be content with what you have, it all looks good to me. Failing that, upgrade your S3Mk2 to M3.
    Thanks. Agree with you re pre-amp I think, and after a brief flirtation with Kharma I have concluded I simply don’t have a big enough listening area, so M3s are back in pole position. But my gut tells me that for $5k or whatever it is for the Femto clock I can squeeze out a material improvement in my DAC.
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  4. #4

    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    Thanks. Agree with you re pre-amp I think, and after a brief flirtation with Kharma I have concluded I simply don’t have a big enough listening area, so M3s are back in pole position. But my gut tells me that for $5k or whatever it is for the Femto clock I can squeeze out a material improvement in my DAC.
    Wouldn’t Bobby be able to allow a home demo of the Femto 93 clock?

    Methinks that the Pandora / Antileon Evo would be more than good enough for now for the S3 Mk 2. Probably the better bet may be to aim for the M3 and then work on the DAC at a later stage

  5. #5
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    Fellow ASs, I have two questions. Probably already covered in other threads but here goes:

    1. Clock. How much better is the Femto 93 clock compared to the standard-issue MSB Premier clock? Worth the $5k or so?

    2. Pre-amp. If I upgraded my Premier DAC to the Reference and used that as my pre-amp instead of (and sold) my Gryphon Pandora, would I lose anything in terms of SQ? Or stick with my Pandora?

    My long term goal is a speaker upgrade, but want to optimise my electronics first.

    Andrew
    Hi Andrew,

    The standard clock on the Premier DAC is the Femto 93. The standard clock on the Reference and Select DACs is the Femto 33. The Reference DAC with its base Preamp Output Stage and base Femto 33 clock gets you in the ballpark of the Select DAC sound wise. To my ears, it’s where the magic really begins.

    Best,
    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  6. #6
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoludio View Post
    Wouldn’t Bobby be able to allow a home demo of the Femto 93 clock?

    Methinks that the Pandora / Antileon Evo would be more than good enough for now for the S3 Mk 2. Probably the better bet may be to aim for the M3 and then work on the DAC at a later stage
    Thanks. This makes excellent sense.
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  7. #7
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    ..But my gut tells me that for $5k or whatever it is for the Femto clock I can squeeze out a material improvement in my DAC.
    Save the $5K and put it towards the MPods for when you eventually upgrade to M3.
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
    | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali

  8. #8
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    It’s Ref dac or bust according to numerous friends and dealers I know. Just made the move from Premier myself. It’s early but not subtle.
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12

  9. #9
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    Fellow ASs, I have two questions. Probably already covered in other threads but here goes:

    1. Clock. How much better is the Femto 93 clock compared to the standard-issue MSB Premier clock? Worth the $5k or so?

    2. Pre-amp. If I upgraded my Premier DAC to the Reference and used that as my pre-amp instead of (and sold) my Gryphon Pandora, would I lose anything in terms of SQ? Or stick with my Pandora?

    My long term goal is a speaker upgrade, but want to optimise my electronics first.

    Andrew
    I just traded my MSB Premier for the Reference for the very same reasons, and more , you mentioned. I just posted a mini review here on audio shark
    System #1................................................ System #2

    ROON Nucleus + server ...............................SME 20/3A
    MSB Reference DAC / V2 Renderer ...............SME V arm
    VAC Signature MkII SE Preamp .....................Dynavector TE Kaitora Rua
    MSB S202 Stereo Amp.................. ..... Sutherland current gain phono stage, Phono loco
    Wilson Audio Sasha II................................ Stenheim Alumime Three
    REL G1 Mk II (pair) Subs............................ Bricasti M1 SE DAC
    Transparent Audio Gen 5 Reference........... T+A PA3000HV Integrated

    [

  10. #10
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoludio View Post
    Wouldn’t Bobby be able to allow a home demo of the Femto 93 clock?

    Methinks that the Pandora / Antileon Evo would be more than good enough for now for the S3 Mk 2. Probably the better bet may be to aim for the M3 and then work on the DAC at a later stage
    Just saw this. A great idea. I don’t know Bobby - have been dealing with Jeffrey. But they don’t have clocks for demo so doubt they would do this (and I wouldn’t want to ask).
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  11. #11
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Magico dealer in Singapore has M3 in for a demo! Soulution electronics. Might pay someone to box up my Gryphon and take it there to test 😎
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  12. #12
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Not sure what that has to do with MSB. Anyway, I wouldn't be doing it unless the M3 is in your price range. People listen to my M3 and regret doing so.
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
    | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali

  13. #13
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    Magico dealer in Singapore has M3 in for a demo! Soulution electronics. Might pay someone to box up my Gryphon and take it there to test MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
    If it’s 7 series Soulution, don’t forget to bring all the packaging, remote, manual, etc. I don’t sell it, but I think a 725/711 is just incredible. BUT, I would think something new from Soulution has to be coming in a year or so. The 711/725/701, etc. has been out quite a while.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

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  14. #14
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    Not sure what that has to do with MSB. Anyway, I wouldn't be doing it unless the M3 is in your price range. People listen to my M3 and regret doing so.
    Nothing to do with MSB. Just the most recent thread of mine i could find.
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  15. #15
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    BUT, I would think something new from Soulution has to be coming in a year or so. The 711/725/701, etc. has been out quite a while.
    Hello Mike,

    Dou you believe Soulution will update its 7 series once again?

    Or add/enhance its more affordable ranges?

    Cheers,

    Thomas

  16. #16
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoms View Post
    Hello Mike,

    Dou you believe Soulution will update its 7 series once again?

    Or add/enhance its more affordable ranges?

    Cheers,

    Thomas
    I don’t have any inside info, but I would guess the 7 series will see an update very very soon.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  17. #17
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If it’s 7 series Soulution, don’t forget to bring all the packaging, remote, manual, etc. I don’t sell it, but I think a 725/711 is just incredible. BUT, I would think something new from Soulution has to be coming in a year or so. The 711/725/701, etc. has been out quite a while.
    Maybe. My (limited) listening to Soulution is that it is very dry and sterile (but great quality). I think Soulution electronics paired with Magico makes no sense.
    I prefer amps with balls. Let’s see. Fun.
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  18. #18
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    “Dry analytical and transparent” amp (Soulution) with “dry analytical and transparent” speaker (Magico) = ...... Maybe I am wrong. The reason why my Gryphon Antileon Evo sounds so good is because it is dark chocolate as fuck and the Magicos smooth it out. M3s will be an even more perfect match.
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  19. #19
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I don’t have any inside info, but I would guess the 7 series will see an update very very soon.
    Hello Mike,

    I know for sure that they’re implementing the Roon RAAT protocol into their 300 series network adapter. They’ll probably add it to the 760, if the implementation is good enough and doesn't impact sound quality.

    As for updating their 711 stereo and 701 monos, I read somewhere an interview of C.Hammer saying that Soulution could go even further with their negative-feedback technology. Something even faster!

    Not sure they plan on changing the amplifiers' circuit topology.

    I plan to buy the 760/711 combo (the 760 directly connected to the 711).

    But I suppose I should wait for the new model.

    The question is how long the “very very soon” will be?

  20. #20
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoms View Post
    Hello Mike,

    I know for sure that they’re implementing the Roon RAAT protocol into their 300 series network adapter. They’ll probably add it to the 760, if the implementation is good enough and doesn't impact sound quality.

    As for updating their 711 stereo and 701 monos, I read somewhere an interview of C.Hammer saying that Soulution could go even further with their negative-feedback technology. Something even faster!

    Not sure they plan on changing the amplifiers' circuit topology.

    I plan to buy the 760/711 combo (the 760 directly connected to the 711).

    But I suppose I should wait for the new model.

    The question is how long the “very very soon” will be?
    And will this be a tit-for-tat with CH 10 series, meaning the 702/712 (if that’s what they call it) is suddenly $200k?


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  21. #21
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    definitely a swiss arms race! the big Darts were the precursors
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12

  22. #22
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    And will this be a tit-for-tat with CH 10 series, meaning the 702/712 (if that’s what they call it) is suddenly $200k
    Do you really believe the price of the “702/712” will be that much increased?

    The CH10 series is a new range in CH-Precision offers. They still sell the CH 1 series. Both ranges price tags are coherent to each other.

    Do you see Soulution releasing their new products or updates during autumn or next spring for the High End show in Munich?

  23. #23
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    Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

    The best I have heard Magico has always been when they are paired with Soulution.
    Jim

    D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
    Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
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MSB: Clock and Pre-amp

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