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Thread: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
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July 29, 2021, 12:43 PM #1
MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
Fellow ASs, I have two questions. Probably already covered in other threads but here goes:
1. Clock. How much better is the Femto 93 clock compared to the standard-issue MSB Premier clock? Worth the $5k or so?
2. Pre-amp. If I upgraded my Premier DAC to the Reference and used that as my pre-amp instead of (and sold) my Gryphon Pandora, would I lose anything in terms of SQ? Or stick with my Pandora?
My long term goal is a speaker upgrade, but want to optimise my electronics first.
AndrewDigital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo
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August 2, 2021, 05:00 AM #2
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Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
Be content with what you have, it all looks good to me. Failing that, upgrade your S3Mk2 to M3.
Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
| Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali
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August 2, 2021, 05:05 AM #3
Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
Thanks. Agree with you re pre-amp I think, and after a brief flirtation with Kharma I have concluded I simply don’t have a big enough listening area, so M3s are back in pole position. But my gut tells me that for $5k or whatever it is for the Femto clock I can squeeze out a material improvement in my DAC.
Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo
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August 2, 2021, 12:44 PM #4
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Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
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August 2, 2021, 01:58 PM #5
Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
Hi Andrew,
The standard clock on the Premier DAC is the Femto 93. The standard clock on the Reference and Select DACs is the Femto 33. The Reference DAC with its base Preamp Output Stage and base Femto 33 clock gets you in the ballpark of the Select DAC sound wise. To my ears, it’s where the magic really begins.
Best,
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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August 2, 2021, 06:37 PM #6Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo
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August 3, 2021, 04:09 AM #7
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Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
| Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali
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August 3, 2021, 08:29 PM #8
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Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
It’s Ref dac or bust according to numerous friends and dealers I know. Just made the move from Premier myself. It’s early but not subtle.
Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12
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August 5, 2021, 07:02 PM #9
Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
System #1................................................ System #2
ROON Nucleus + server ...............................SME 20/3A
MSB Reference DAC / V2 Renderer ...............SME V arm
VAC Signature MkII SE Preamp .....................Dynavector TE Kaitora Rua
MSB S202 Stereo Amp.................. ..... Sutherland current gain phono stage, Phono loco
Wilson Audio Sasha II................................ Stenheim Alumime Three
REL G1 Mk II (pair) Subs............................ Bricasti M1 SE DAC
Transparent Audio Gen 5 Reference........... T+A PA3000HV Integrated
[
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August 12, 2021, 09:00 AM #10
Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo
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August 21, 2021, 08:12 AM #11
Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
Magico dealer in Singapore has M3 in for a demo! Soulution electronics. Might pay someone to box up my Gryphon and take it there to test 😎
Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo
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August 21, 2021, 08:48 AM #12
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Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
Not sure what that has to do with MSB. Anyway, I wouldn't be doing it unless the M3 is in your price range. People listen to my M3 and regret doing so.
Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
| Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali
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August 21, 2021, 08:50 AM #13
Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
If it’s 7 series Soulution, don’t forget to bring all the packaging, remote, manual, etc. I don’t sell it, but I think a 725/711 is just incredible. BUT, I would think something new from Soulution has to be coming in a year or so. The 711/725/701, etc. has been out quite a while.
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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Phone: 941-932-0282
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August 21, 2021, 09:13 AM #14
Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo
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August 29, 2021, 02:29 PM #15
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- Switzerland
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August 29, 2021, 03:04 PM #16
Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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August 30, 2021, 12:57 PM #17
Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo
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August 30, 2021, 01:02 PM #18
Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
“Dry analytical and transparent” amp (Soulution) with “dry analytical and transparent” speaker (Magico) = ...... Maybe I am wrong. The reason why my Gryphon Antileon Evo sounds so good is because it is dark chocolate as fuck and the Magicos smooth it out. M3s will be an even more perfect match.
Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo
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August 30, 2021, 01:52 PM #19
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- Switzerland
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Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
Hello Mike,
I know for sure that they’re implementing the Roon RAAT protocol into their 300 series network adapter. They’ll probably add it to the 760, if the implementation is good enough and doesn't impact sound quality.
As for updating their 711 stereo and 701 monos, I read somewhere an interview of C.Hammer saying that Soulution could go even further with their negative-feedback technology. Something even faster!
Not sure they plan on changing the amplifiers' circuit topology.
I plan to buy the 760/711 combo (the 760 directly connected to the 711).
But I suppose I should wait for the new model.
The question is how long the “very very soon” will be?
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August 30, 2021, 02:18 PM #20
Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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August 30, 2021, 03:05 PM #21
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Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
definitely a swiss arms race! the big Darts were the precursors
Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12
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August 30, 2021, 04:24 PM #22
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- Switzerland
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Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
Do you really believe the price of the “702/712” will be that much increased?
The CH10 series is a new range in CH-Precision offers. They still sell the CH 1 series. Both ranges price tags are coherent to each other.
Do you see Soulution releasing their new products or updates during autumn or next spring for the High End show in Munich?
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August 30, 2021, 04:30 PM #23
Re: MSB: Clock and Pre-amp
The best I have heard Magico has always been when they are paired with Soulution.
Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
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