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Thread: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
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June 27, 2014, 10:54 PM #1
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Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Just ordered a Modwright OPPO 105D. Now it's time to research some good tubes.
I read various threads here, on Audiocircle, Whatsbestforum, etc regarding tube rolling on Modwright OPPO. Would be nice to have a dedicated thread here on AS as well.
Thoughts on NOS vs new production tubes? I'm a tube noob.
6SN7: Sophia Electric, Psvane T2, NOS
Rectifier: Sophia Electric, Psvane WE Replica, Emission labs, NOS
Voltage regulator tubes: I found some cheap ones on the web. Any NOS that's good?
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June 27, 2014, 11:00 PM #2
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Congratulations Tommy!
* Jim Marin; I'm going to try reaching him and invite him here to share his experience.
He's a good guy (an owner too) who knows a thing or two on the subject.~ Bob ~
"And it Stoned me to my Soul" • Van Morrison
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June 27, 2014, 11:40 PM #3
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
I'd be surprised if you get anyone commenting who hasn't already posted at those other forums. One thing you need to decide is if you want to stick with the stock tube types (6SN7 and GZ34/5AR4) or try some others (some may require adaptors).
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June 28, 2014, 12:38 AM #4
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Robert, I would love to give Tommy a direct link, but I think he has already read it. And besides, more new feedback (today) is more time passed behind, and more experience acquired, so not a bad idea at all to invite Jim Marin here.
I'm sure Tommy can benefit?
Anyway, Tom is looking for feedback from real owners right here @ AudioShark. ...And there are couple.~ Bob ~
"And it Stoned me to my Soul" • Van Morrison
Click ♪ Audiophile Audition
Snoopy as the Red Baron attack
Avatar = The Alan Parsons Project - Eye in the Sky (1982 - orbiting)
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June 28, 2014, 12:44 AM #5
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Thanks Bob.
I'm only interested in stock tube types w/o adaptors.
I believe the 274B tube can be a direct sub for GZ34/5AR4?
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June 28, 2014, 02:35 AM #6
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Congrats Tommy.
I would avoid Psvane.
Very bad experience with them.
BTW, a Shindo system without a TT is like a Ferrari with winter tires...
Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de TapatalkShindo, Nagra, Electrocompaniet, Harbeth, AMR, Mc Intosh, Auditorium 23, Rega, DeVore, JC Verdier, WireWorld, Kimber
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June 28, 2014, 03:20 AM #7
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Jerome, yes, I read your ordeal regarding Psvane orders. They seem to produce nice sounding tubes, but it's often hit or miss.
I considered TT and its associated accessories many times, but decided not to dip my toe into the TT pond. With the right tubes, I believe I will be very happy with a digital source.
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June 28, 2014, 07:06 AM #8
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Tommy,
Of course you will be very happy with Shindo and a good digital source. But you're just missing the best part of Shindo. The way to handle perfectly a full analog signal.
One day you'll come to it.
No doubt.
Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de TapatalkShindo, Nagra, Electrocompaniet, Harbeth, AMR, Mc Intosh, Auditorium 23, Rega, DeVore, JC Verdier, WireWorld, Kimber
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June 28, 2014, 08:40 AM #9
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
I remain quite happy with NOS TungSol oval-plate blackglass 6SN7 and NOS 1958 Dutch Mullard GZ34. I'm not sure there is much to choose between (sonically) for the regulator tubes, but they all run only $5-10 each so experimentation is fairly inexpensive.
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June 28, 2014, 11:47 AM #10
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Congratulations! I look forward to hearing your impressions once you receive it!
I'm using the Sophia Electric 6SN7s along with a Gold Lion GZ34 in mine. Some have stated that this combination is too detailed/sharp, but I haven't found that to be the case in my system. I'm also using a ModWright LS100 with the Sophias and a NOS Mullard there. I've used various combinations of the Sophias and Mullards in both units, as well as the GLs in both, and have found that I like the combination I'm using now the best.McIntosh MC501s, XRT29s, XR27, WS350s
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WyWires, LAT International, Wireworld Cables
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June 28, 2014, 11:56 AM #11
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
just for the record guys i have been talking with nikolay @ tube maze and he carries tj full music 6sn7's, which are what sophia buys from them and are branded with the sophia name. they are the same tubes and nikolay sells them for alot less $$. im getting a quad of matched for my amps shortly. just an fyi because if i knew this before id already have them.
Steve
TUBES & VINYL
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June 28, 2014, 01:39 PM #12
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Which online suppliers have high quality rare NOS tubes? Brent Jessee? Tube Maze?
From what I'm reading, the NOS tubes are more reliable compared to current production Chinese tubes.
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June 28, 2014, 03:53 PM #13
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Tommy...does Dan Modwright have any suggestions for tube rolling?
Cyril
Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system
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June 28, 2014, 05:29 PM #14
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
The last time I asked Dan about this he was still recommending the Sophia / Gold Lion combination mentioned earlier. He said he didn't feel comfortable (or something, I can't remeber if those were his exact words) making NOS recommendations.
Brent Jessee, Tube World, TC Tubes are all good sources (I'm sure there are more).
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July 1, 2014, 08:46 PM #15
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Dan doesn't think the 274b is a good idea. It needs very specific power supply.
Im going to email tube world and Brent jessee for some recommendation.
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July 1, 2014, 09:55 PM #16
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Fortunately the good tube vendors all have generous return policies. One big potential problem with NOS tubes in the Oppo is microphonics. Since the Oppo has moving parts (assuming you are playing a disc), a microphonic tube may respond to the vibrations generated by the rotating disc. If you didn't see this yet it might be helpful
6SN7 VT
and Brent Jessee's website gives good descriptions about individual tube types as well.
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July 1, 2014, 11:25 PM #17
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Thanks for the info. What makes nos tubes microphonic? New stock tubes don't have this problem?
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July 2, 2014, 08:33 AM #18
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Any tubes can have this problem. From what I have read, which is also my experience, for the 6SN7 NOS tubes are more likely to be microphonic than newly manufactured tubes. I don't know for sure why, someone like Myles might. Some varieties (of 6SN7) are more prone than others.
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July 2, 2014, 12:26 PM #19
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
I can't think of a single reason why a NOS tube would be more prone to being microphonic than a current production tube.
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July 2, 2014, 01:05 PM #20
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July 2, 2014, 03:31 PM #21
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
The major tube vendors make a point of what? Telling you that NOS 6SN7 tubes tend to be microphonic? If I was in the business of selling new production 6SN7 tubes, I might say the same thing. NOS audio tubes do not become microphonic with age. There is no scientific data that would back up that assertion to my knowledge. Any tube can be microphonic whether it's NOS or fresh off the production floor. Any tube whether NOS or new production can start off not being microphonic and then turn microphonic overnight. If you have been around tubes enough in your life, you know what I mean.
The good news if you use 6SN7 tubes is that they were as common as dirt when tube production was in all of its glory the world over. That means there were at least a gazillion of them made and the supply of NOS tubes is still plentiful. Stop the press! I just went to Upscale Audio's website to take a gander at what NOS 6SN7 tubes Kevin is offering and I see that Kevin is saying that quite a few of them are microphonic. Kevin does have 6SN7 tubes in the platinum category which means they are suitable for use in both line stages and phono stages and he has NOS military platinum grade Tung-Sol tubes for $120.00 each (not to be confused with current production Sovtek 6SN7 tubes that have Tung-Sol labels and Tung-Sol boxes.
Kevin also has all of the usual current production 6SN7 tubes at cheap prices which he says sound great and aren't microphonic. If I was sticking them in an Oppo (or any other digital box that primarily was used for PCM), I would probably go with the cheap Russian or Chinese tubes.
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July 2, 2014, 06:34 PM #22
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
How do you know the Oppo is used primarily for PCM ??
One way new production tubes might be that they can be easily screened for microphonics and the "bad" tubes discarded. As far as what to put in the Oppo, I would say the best you can afford because even the most expensive are only a small fraction of the price of the unit itself and the sound can be improved significantly. Certainly better than your 'table LOL
I've had tunes in and out of my system since the early '70's.
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July 2, 2014, 07:29 PM #23
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
You've had tunes or tubes in your system since the early 70's? As for how I "know" the Oppo is primarily used for PCM, it's just an educated guess. I think at this point in time that PCM playback is way more prevalent than DSD.
I agree with you that if you want the best sound possible, I would go with a premium grade NOS 6SN7 tube vice current production. And yeah, I'm sure your Oppo blows my SP-10 MKII table, SME 312S arm, and my XV-1s cartridge in the weeds.
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July 2, 2014, 09:15 PM #24
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Typing on an iPhone is certainly prone to mistakes And you should know by now my opinions on LP's...
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July 2, 2014, 11:54 PM #25
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
I plan on getting the best NOS tubes to supercharge my Modwright.
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July 19, 2014, 06:25 PM #26
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Brent Jessee has a good variety of high quality NOS 6SN7 matched pairs currently (he usually sells out of these quickly, although he usually eventually finds more; that can't go on forever, though). TungSol oval plate blackglass, newer (but still quite good and much cheaper) TungSols, a variety of Sylvanias, Ken Rads, Raytheon and RCA at various price points. Also the usual assortment of UK or Dutch GZ34's (all made by Mullard) for the rectifier.
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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July 19, 2014, 06:59 PM #27
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
I just dropped an email to Brent.
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July 30, 2014, 01:55 AM #28
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Got my OPPO last night. Had a quick listen tonight. Out of box with stock power cords, it sounds so so. My Marantz UD9004 was better. The Weiss Medea+ that I returned was much better. I'll give it more time. I also plan to upgrade the power cords, fuse, feet, and tubes.
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July 30, 2014, 09:29 AM #29
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Glad to hear you have received it, Tommy. It won't sound anywhere near its potential with stock tubes and stock power cords. I also found with mine that it needed 120+ hours to break in and for the sound to settle down.
If you can be patient, use your stock tubes to run it in 24x7 for at least a week or two. It will go through a lot of changes. I tried to break mine in with the stock tubes (which would have been smart), but the upgraded tubes sounded so much better that I couldn't help myself, and I ended up switching them out right away, and just listening to it as it went through its changes.McIntosh MC501s, XRT29s, XR27, WS350s
ModWright LS 300 preamplifier
ModWright PH 9.0XT phono stage
Oppo UDP-205 with ModWright Signature Truth Tube Modifications
Cambridge Audio CXNv2 with ModWright Truth Tube Modifications
Clearaudio Performance SE TT with Hana ML MC cartridge
Outlaw 7000x HT Amplifier
Denon AVR-X4700H HT Receiver (pre-amp mode)
JL Audio F113 subs with CR-1 Crossover
ASC & RealTraps Panels; APS PurePower 2000; Daedalus Audio DiDs
WyWires, LAT International, Wireworld Cables
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July 30, 2014, 11:05 PM #30
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
I have 2 Crystal Cable Absolute Dream power cords ready for them. I'm still waiting on some NOS tubes.
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August 5, 2014, 12:09 AM #31
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
With about 75 hours on the OPPO + after market power cords, it's sounding a lot better now.
Compared to the UD9004, it is clearly better. Compared to the Weiss (via memory), it is smoother, less "hard." Dynamic range, detail, and imaging is still a notch below the Weiss. But it will only get better after I get some NOS tubes, fuse, and footers. I will also give everything 500hrs before making a final impression.
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July 4, 2016, 12:38 AM #32
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
i found the Ken-Rad VT-231 to sound quite neutral, but very microphonic in the oppo. Sophia too.
The Sylvania 6sn7 from VTS was neutral too, with very little to no microphonics. rated "MC" by Andy. my fave so far.
RCA short bottle had very little microphonics and sounded a little warmer.VanAlstine humdinger DC eliminator
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July 4, 2016, 08:50 AM #33
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Concerning the 6SN7 family of tubes, I have consistently found that a 6F8G (the grandfather of the family) with an adapter out performs the newer smaller bottle "GT"s. More dimensional, larger soundstage and depth. VT-99's are the military version of 6F8G's and have been graded and checked to be of a higher quality by the manufacturer.
It is claimed by some that adapters degrade the sound. In relation to this tube substitution, I have not noticed any negative effects only MUCH MUCH better sonics.
CAUTION: Only try this if you are looking to take this piece of gear to the next level.
You have been warned.My System
Acoustic Revive RTP-4
Innuos Pulsar
Lampizator BALTIC4
Cary SLP-05
Pass XA30.5 or
Line Magnetic 845ia
Reference 3A Reflector's
Pr SVS SB3000 Subs
Cables & Tubes "subject to change without notification".
Complete system on battery power/solar
Core Audio Design Rack
DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.
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July 4, 2016, 09:57 AM #34
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Do you feel this is specific to the Oppo, or any 6SN7 application? There a a few recent preamp and amp designs that use the 6SN7 (Cary, Atma-sphere, etc); if the 6F8G were really a better tube I would think those designers would have spec'd it, and without an adaptor. The same argument could be made for Modwright; why not start with that tube if it is better?
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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July 4, 2016, 11:05 AM #35
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Most companies that design and build tube gear with aspirations of having lots of sales and keeping a stock of tubes for their customers are not going to design with tubes that have been out of production for years and are only available on the secondary markets like FeePay. The 6SN7/6SL7 family of tubes were a very common tube that were used around the world and they are still in production. The simple answer is you shouldn't design a new product to use tubes that aren't in current production if you want to stay in business. If you can't buy and grade tubes in large quantities, you can't support your product.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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July 4, 2016, 01:39 PM #36
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
My System
Acoustic Revive RTP-4
Innuos Pulsar
Lampizator BALTIC4
Cary SLP-05
Pass XA30.5 or
Line Magnetic 845ia
Reference 3A Reflector's
Pr SVS SB3000 Subs
Cables & Tubes "subject to change without notification".
Complete system on battery power/solar
Core Audio Design Rack
DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.
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July 4, 2016, 04:47 PM #37
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
If I could still buy real Mullard EL-34 tubes in quantities and they were tested and matched, I would probably still have my Quicksilver MS-190 with the triode input boards. Mike Sanders designed the MS-190 to run with real Mullard EL-34s as he was running those tubes hard at the maximum plate dissipation rating (25 watts). You are never supposed to design a piece of gear and run the parts at their maximum ratings. It's a recipe for a short life. The real Mullards could take it without breaking a sweat plus they sound great which is why Mike chose them, but modern EL-34s can't take the punishment.
Michael Elliott enlisted Roger Modjeski to design an OTL for Counterpoint called the SA-4. It used the 6LF6 tubes which are out of production and no longer available in quantities to keep these amps running with matched tubes. Owners now pretty much have boat anchors.
The bottom line is that if you are a tube roller and you have a stash of rare tubes and have hit on a great combination for your preamp, amp, phono stage, or DAC, that's great. Just don't wonder why the designer isn't using your magic combination in normal production.Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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July 4, 2016, 07:24 PM #38
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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July 4, 2016, 07:52 PM #39Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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July 5, 2016, 07:26 PM #40
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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July 5, 2016, 07:29 PM #41
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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July 5, 2016, 08:13 PM #42
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Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
The adapters are available from China. And there are many reliable tube sellers on FleaBay. Just check their feedback and buy with confidence thru Paypal/Ebay guarantee that the tubes will be as advertised. Don't let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. You will be rewarded.
My System
Acoustic Revive RTP-4
Innuos Pulsar
Lampizator BALTIC4
Cary SLP-05
Pass XA30.5 or
Line Magnetic 845ia
Reference 3A Reflector's
Pr SVS SB3000 Subs
Cables & Tubes "subject to change without notification".
Complete system on battery power/solar
Core Audio Design Rack
DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.
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June 14, 2017, 12:09 PM #43
Re: Modwright OPPO 105 tube rolling
Hi All,
Can anyone suggest 'darker' tubes for the Modwright Oppo 105D?
...not warmer, darker. I also wouldn't mind suggestions on tubes that produce a bit more rounded sound, more space between instruments, something that has less of that false 1khz digital 'air' sound, almost clinical but absolutely NOT HARSH...or cutting or piercing or brassy.
I know pretty odd....something with less 1khz and less of that woody 250hz feel. Punctuated I guess like when you throw on a good piece of non-sibilant vinyl.
Lemmeknow.
Thnx,
B
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
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I upgraded the power supply on my Gigafoil v4 to a Weiss PSU 102. It’s very nice step up. But with the new model, you’re looking at $2000 before even investing in a SOTA linear power supply.
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