My new beauty : the MC225 amplifier !!

**Jerome W** · August 29, 2013, 11:28 PM

Hello folks,

A few years ago, a Mc expert came to my home, sent by AC, to check one of my 2301 amp. He listened to the big babies and did not say much. I talked to him about my 275's MKIV that I missed so much when I got my 501's and the reason why I bought the 2301's.
He asked " did you ever hear an original 275 ? that is clearly an other beast. Much better than the new ones. But the King of the King is the MC225. Hard to find in great condition, it is a rare amp, but the best that McIntosh ever made".

I do not post often, neither here or at AA, but I read a lot.
And all those years, this little phrase about the 225 picked more and more my curiosity. A few months ago, I started to read about it on various forums, to find out that all the owners of the 225, skilled and dedicated Mc owners who often owned many Mc amps modern and vintage, were all saying the same thing : the 225 is the best Mc amp ever made. Period.

So what was first a curiosity, became an obsession.
I found a great unit at AC, and thanks to Mike, it arrived perfectly safe in my home 3 days ago.
Connected to the C48 preamp. Source was the Mc Book Pro with SSD and Audirvana + and speakers are the REGA RS10. The 225 took the place of the 2205 ( which I love a lot in this system ) by just unplugging the speaker cables of the Rega. The 2205 has the WW Silver Eclipse 6 SC while the 225 was connected with an old simple Naim Naca 4.

What a shock ! The 225 sound is amazing. Clean, clear, crisp, detailed, agile, fast, with tight bass and flat all over the spectrum : all the qualities of the modern amps but indeed faster and cleaner, and Natural, human, voluptuous, rich, uncanny, warm : all the qualities of the vintage gear.
Actually, it sounds like a great Shindo amplifier, very close to my CCQ monoblocks.
For the very first time, I am hearing a Mc amplifier that sounds as good as Shindo, who is for me, the " Superlative McIntosh". Shindo sound is like the Mc sound to me, but better, stronger, cleaner and so on. It is in the same family of sound reproduction but like 2 brothers. One would be 13 and is discovering love. While the other one would be 20.
the CCQ kicked the 2301's out of my home. The Giscours smokes my former C1000P preamp.
And the 225 would have done the same on speakers representing an average load ( not necessarily an easy load : the power supply of the 225 is beefy for sure ).

Concerning the sound per se, yes the 225 is the very very best, by very far, Mc amp that I ever had in my home or ever listened to.
For those who could live with 30 W of power or 60 W for 2 of them in mono, the MC225 is not only the best McIntosh amps of all times. It is one of the best amplifier in the world.
I have already asked Mike at AC to find me an other one. I want to try a pair of 225 in my main set up, with the Wilson's WP8's.

McIntosh !! Why can't you build a current 225 ! But please, I want the same sound !

**mdkim** · August 29, 2013, 11:56 PM

Thanks for sharing Jerome. Sounds like you're onto something special.

**NorthStar** · August 30, 2013, 12:07 AM

Hi Jerome, I'm just curious (great post by the way); did you share that?

* I'm always happy to see you.

...You're one hell of a great guy!
{Next time I'll say it in French.

}

**Paul** · August 30, 2013, 12:12 AM

Great post Thank you for sharing.

**Jerome W** · August 30, 2013, 02:35 AM

Hello Bob,

Thanks a lot !
Why do you mean by " Did you share that ? "

**XV-1** · August 30, 2013, 02:42 AM

Excellent Jerome

Where are the pic's??

**Jerome W** · August 30, 2013, 02:46 AM

Thank you guys !
I was not expecting many answers.
It is probably not diplomatic to say in a place like AS, or AA, full of members using very expensive huge modern amps, that a 2 x 30 W little tube amp, built around 1960, is better sounding than most modern amps.
Anyway this is only true for my ears and for what I'm looking for when listening to music.
I am a man of experimentations. HiFi is all about experimenting indeed. Have you seen how many brands have " Labs " or " Laboratory " in their name ?
My home is also a " lab " who is maintained by my curiosity. I' m collecting gear, comparing them, and get more closely to the point of ultimate ear satisfaction.
I'm sorry if I could hurt anyone with my posts. They are just a reflect of my personal experience and are not to be considered as the "absolute truth".

**joeinid** · August 30, 2013, 03:51 AM

Jerome,

I am so happy you were able to find a gem like the MC225. It must be wonderful. I may have to get Audioclassics to locate one for me.

ps Ignore Bob!

**Mike** · August 30, 2013, 05:07 AM

Jerome - congrats! That 225 is gorgeous. I would love to hear it. I heard an original 275 and was floored. If this is better? Wow! Congrats!!

Mike

**socfan12** · August 30, 2013, 05:38 AM

Congrats, Jerome! I love it when we find something that pushes all the right buttons for us!

**MDP** · August 30, 2013, 07:50 AM

A huge congrats Jerome !! And thanks for a very educational post, I have never heard of that amp, but I will look it up.

I hope you have many enjoyable years of music with your new Mc !!!!!!!

**NorthStar** · August 30, 2013, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Hello Bob,

Thanks a lot !
Why do you mean by " Did you share that ? "

With other friends from around the world (other audio sites, McIntosh audio sites).

**NorthStar** · August 30, 2013, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Thank you guys !
I was not expecting many answers.
It is probably not diplomatic to say in a place like AS, or AA, full of members using very expensive huge modern amps, that a 2 x 30 W little tube amp, built around 1960, is better sounding than most modern amps.
Anyway this is only true for my ears and for what I'm looking for when listening to music.
I am a man of experimentations. HiFi is all about experimenting indeed. Have you seen how many brands have " Labs " or " Laboratory " in their name ?
My home is also a " lab " who is maintained by my curiosity. I' m collecting gear, comparing them, and get more closely to the point of ultimate ear satisfaction.
I'm sorry if I could hurt anyone with my posts. They are just a reflect of my personal experience and are not to be considered as the "absolute truth".

- EMM Labs
- Lamm Audio Laboratory
- Focal-JMLab
- Pass Labs
- Sound Lab
- JPS Labs
- Magnum Dynalab
- Final Laboratory
- 47 Laboratory
- Antique Sound Laboratory
- Wavac Audio Lab
- Digital Audio Labs
- Alpha Design Labs
- Artemis Labs
- Miyajima Labs
- My Sonic Lab
- DaVinci Audio Labs
- Continuum Audio Labs

...Just to name a few.

**NorthStar** · August 30, 2013, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

...

ps Ignore Bob!

C'mon Joe.

**Jerome W** · September 2, 2013, 04:37 PM

DSC_0002_zps909db461.jpg

DSC_0006_zps5659bfec.jpg

DSC_0013_zpsefd43568.jpg

**Jerome W** · September 2, 2013, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by NorthStar

- EMM Labs
- Lamm Audio Laboratory
- Focal-JMLab
- Pass Labs
- Sound Lab
- JPS Labs
- Magnum Dynalab
- Final Laboratory
- 47 Laboratory
- Antique Sound Laboratory
- Wavac Audio Lab
- Digital Audio Labs
- Alpha Design Labs
- Artemis Labs
- Miyajima Labs
- My Sonic Lab
- DaVinci Audio Labs
- Continuum Audio Labs

...Just to name a few.

Bob, you forgot my favorites :

Shindo Laboratory

McIntosh Laboratories

Manley Laboratories

**Jerome W** · September 2, 2013, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by NorthStar

Hello Bob,

Thanks a lot !
Why do you mean by " Did you share that ? "

With other friends from around the world (other audio sites, McIntosh audio sites).

Oh yes ! Absolutely !
I am a sharing person

!

**Mike** · September 2, 2013, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Bob, you forgot my favorites :

Shindo Laboratory

McIntosh Laboratories

Manley Laboratories

Those are all champs!

**Petro85** · September 2, 2013, 05:13 PM

Great Jerome , congrats. I do have an old friend who been telling me for 20 years to buy the oldest Mac gear I can find and hold onto it.
Best of luck with it!!!

**JJinID** · September 2, 2013, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

DSC_0002_zps909db461.jpg

DSC_0006_zps5659bfec.jpg

DSC_0013_zpsefd43568.jpg

Very nice amplifier Jerome - congratulations and enjoy!!

**gooch** · September 2, 2013, 05:42 PM

Nice looking amp Jerome

**joeinid** · September 2, 2013, 06:05 PM

Jerome,

I enlarged the photos. OMG! They look absolutely beautiful, and brand new. Congratulations.

**MDP** · September 2, 2013, 06:25 PM

They're absolutely stunning !!!!

Congrats again Jerome !!

**NorthStar** · September 3, 2013, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Bob, you forgot my favorites :

Shindo Laboratory

McIntosh Laboratories

Manley Laboratories

Oh but I did not forget them Jerome; I let you take care of it.

...Jerome and Bob Laboratories.

**Jerome W** · September 3, 2013, 01:26 AM

Thanks for the nice comments my friends.

Bob: I got it now

!

**MDP** · September 25, 2013, 06:14 AM

Jerome, How is the 225 working out ??

**Jerome W** · September 25, 2013, 07:51 AM

Mark,
Very good thank you !
It drives the RS10 very well. I love this amplifier a lot.

**MDP** · September 25, 2013, 08:07 AM

Very cool !!

**volks** · September 29, 2013, 02:24 PM

Jerome what a classic beauty!!! ....

**Jerome W** · October 2, 2013, 11:07 PM

Thanks Michael !

**NorthStar** · October 2, 2013, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by MDP

Very cool !!

Does it run too? ...Cool.

Originally Posted by volks

Jerome what a classic beauty!!! ....

Michael, you're next?

**Jerome W** · October 4, 2013, 06:31 PM

The 225 is a reference tube amplifier for JC Verdier.
He bought one to study the circuit and was amazed at how simple and pure it is.
The music flawing from this amp is not comparable to any other Mc I had.
The King of the Kings.

**sharkmouth** · October 4, 2013, 06:49 PM

Hey Jérôme, hows your journey in sound treating you. Great looking amp you have there, if the sound is comparable to it's looks your streets ahead already. Great to hear the old stuff still hangs with the latest greatest uber expensive. Maybe you should tell he who's name shall not be mentioned on that other site that he's wasted a lot of money with his wall of McIntosh/over abundance.

**Jerome W** · December 5, 2013, 05:19 AM

Originally Posted by sharkmouth

Hey Jérôme, hows your journey in sound treating you. Great looking amp you have there, if the sound is comparable to it's looks your streets ahead already. Great to hear the old stuff still hangs with the latest greatest uber expensive. Maybe you should tell he who's name shall not be mentioned on that other site that he's wasted a lot of money with his wall of McIntosh/over abundance.

Thank you !

I love so much the 225 that I actually bought a MX110 Z which was his partner in the old days.
And I am seriously thinking buying a second 225 for an other system.
I agree that the old Mcs are better TO MY EARS and to some audiophiles than the modern ones.
But this is not Absolute Truth. It applies to MY EARS and what I'm looking for with music.
Someone who needs lots of power will go with the modern Mcs. But compared to my 225, 2205 and even my MA5100 integrated, I find them boring.
One exception to this relative statement : tuners.
The old ones are MUCH BETTER IN ABSOLUTE TERMS than the new ones.

Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de Tapatalk

**dlb2** · December 5, 2013, 08:10 AM

Jerome, you were able to get some beautiful, clean 225's. I wonder how they sound against the 275's? I think what you're describing as far as a different sound is what Mike was having a problem with when he auditioned many of the new tube amps available today. I agree that tube amps should actually sound like tube amps! I guess they just don't make them like they use to.

btw, it's really nice seeing you around here again!

**Mike** · December 5, 2013, 08:26 AM

Doug - I'm interested in Jerome's answer to this. But I think I already know the answer!

Jerome - can you run the 225's in mono?

**Jerome W** · December 5, 2013, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Doug - I'm interested in Jerome's answer to this. But I think I already know the answer!

Jerome - can you run the 225's in mono?

Yes Mike.
But I was told that 2 x 225 in mono are not as musical as the stereo amp as it is the case too with the 275. There seems to loose a bit of the magic.

**Jerome W** · December 5, 2013, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by dlb2

Jerome, you were able to get some beautiful, clean 225's. I wonder how they sound against the 275's? I think what you're describing as far as a different sound is what Mike was having a problem with when he auditioned many of the new tube amps available today. I agree that tube amps should actually sound like tube amps! I guess they just don't make them like they use to.

btw, it's really nice seeing you around here again!

Thanks a lot Doug !

**Hiker** · December 5, 2013, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Thank you !

I love so much the 225 that I actually bought a MX110 Z which was his partner in the old days.
And I am seriously thinking buying a second 225 for an other system.
I agree that the old Mcs are better TO MY EARS and to some audiophiles than the modern ones.
But this is not Absolute Truth. It applies to MY EARS and what I'm looking for with music.
Someone who needs lots of power will go with the modern Mcs. But compared to my 225, 2205 and even my MA5100 integrated, I find them boring.
One exception to this relative statement : tuners.
The old ones are MUCH BETTER IN ABSOLUTE TERMS than the new ones.

Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de Tapatalk

I own the newest MC275VI. Why is it not as good as the 53 year old MC225?

**Jerome W** · December 5, 2013, 01:54 PM

I did not say that the original 275 is better than the modern one. I said " TO MY EARS", it is better.
I find the old Mcs more musical. Even average recordings sound good on the old ones.
At the same time, I do not find them colored at all. Maybe the components were just better at that time + point to point soldering ?
Actually, the 225 sounds like a Shindo.

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**Hiker** · December 5, 2013, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

I did not say that the original 275 is better than the modern one. Maybe the components were just better at that time + point to point soldering ?

I am comfortable that the components used in a new 2014 MC275VI are better than those used in an old 1961 MC225.

**Jerome W** · December 5, 2013, 03:11 PM

Then I would like to know why the modern Mcs are less reliable than the old ones.

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**Jerome W** · December 5, 2013, 11:49 PM

I am buying an other one !

To go with a MX110 Z, in the living room system.

6ep3k3.jpg

**Mike** · December 5, 2013, 11:50 PM

nice Jerome! Congrats.

**Jerome W** · December 6, 2013, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

nice Jerome! Congrats.

Thank you Mike !

**MDP** · December 6, 2013, 11:46 AM

Very exciting Jerome !!

**Jerome W** · December 6, 2013, 05:14 PM

Thanks Mark !

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Thread: My new beauty : the MC225 amplifier !!