452 or 601's

**stanly.joseph** · May 31, 2015, 07:46 AM

Hi guys

Just a few weeks ago, I purchased uhhhmmm I might say invested in a pair of 803D's. Ever since than I've been looking for the perfect amp to pair them with so my stereo 2 channel listening pleasure could be elevated to maximum bliss.

I ordered the emotiva XPR 5, they are fine for HT use but definitely not the perfect 2 channel driver. Plenty of power and finesse but not quite dead silent for me. They hiss and buzz.

So I've been seriously looking into the mac's especially the mc452. I'm also thinking 601's but unsure if I really need all that power in addition to my space constraints.

Any advice? Thanks much.

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**MDP** · May 31, 2015, 07:57 AM

Welcome to AS!

I think that the 452 would be plenty of power for the 803's.

**stanly.joseph** · May 31, 2015, 08:05 AM

What do the 601's retail for? The 452's are $7500 right?

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**joeinid** · May 31, 2015, 08:38 AM

Welcome!

The MC452 retails for $8500 and the MC601's retail at $14K for the pair. I had the MC601's and they are wonderful amps. I am thinking of getting the MC452 as a replacement. You'd be surprised how quickly you can eat up the power. Both models have a similar sound signature. If you are even thinking about the MC601's, you may have already made that decision.

**Mike** · May 31, 2015, 09:01 AM

Go 452....she's a beauty.

**jdandy** · May 31, 2015, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by stanly.joseph

So I've been seriously looking into the mac's especially the mc452. I'm also thinking 601's but unsure if I really need all that power in addition to my space constraints.

Any advice? Thanks much.

stanly.joseph.......You will be happy with either amplifier choice. The MC452 is a powerhouse in its own right and has no problem outperforming its output power specs. The same can be said about the MC601 mono block amps. I own both the MC452 and a pair of MC601's and love them. Joe was correct when he stated both amplifiers are similarly voiced. With the introduction of the MC2301's, the MC601's, and the MC452, McIntosh delivered an improvement in the amplifiers' dynamic speed and an improvement in the resolution. They still have that great McIntosh sound but are quicker and more resolved. Neither amplifier will leave you wanting for more power.

Here is a photo on one of my MC601's driving my PMC EB1i's. No Power Guard lights were flickering and the music was sweet and clean.

**stanly.joseph** · May 31, 2015, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Double-D

stanly.joseph.......You will be happy with either amplifier choice. The MC452 is a powerhouse in its own right and has no problem outperforming its output power specs. The same can be said about the MC601 mono block amps. I own both the MC452 and a pair of MC601's and love them. Joe was correct when he stated both amplifiers are similarly voiced. With the introduction of the MC2301's, the MC601's, and the MC452 McIntosh delivered an improvement in the amplifiers' dynamic speed and an improvement in the resolution. They still have that great McIntosh sound but are quicker and more resolved. Neither amplifier will leave you wanting for more power.

Here is a photo on one of my MC601's driving my PMC EB1i's. No Power Guard lights were flickering and the music was sweet and clean.

Hey double D

What do you mean by " The MC452 is a powerhouse in its own right and has no problem outperforming its output power specs"

Does it mean that the 450 WPC rating is conservatively rated? Actual power output could be higher?

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**jdandy** · May 31, 2015, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by stanly.joseph

Hey double D

What do you mean by " The MC452 is a powerhouse in its own right and has no problem outperforming its output power specs"

Does it mean that the 450 WPC rating is conservatively rated? Actual power output could be higher?

stanly.joseph.......That is exactly what I meant. McIntosh specifications have always been the published minimum performance standards, not the maximum. Their amplifiers have always outperformed publish specifications, often by a wide margin. A look at the MC601 meter I posted clearly presents the MC601's ability to deliver a 1000 watts without having the Power Guard circuits coming on. The MC452 will easily deliver 700 watts of output power when pushed, again without Power Guard kicking in and well within its rated distortion specs. That's what I meant when I said the MC452 is a powerhouse.

**mihamusic** · May 31, 2015, 01:18 PM

Hi:

I am using MC452 on 800D - more then enough POWER :-)

BR : MM

**PMCH** · May 31, 2015, 05:00 PM

Stanley.joseph, as I replied in your other post, I had 803d's with MC352's and MC601 monos. Those speakers love power. I think the MC452 or MC601 would be a great match. Sometimes it comes down to budget, space and looks to make a final determination but sound wise you can't go wrong with either of the amps. I admit that I don't listen at high volumes. I don't think I ever listened at over 60 watts even at peak.

**stanly.joseph** · May 31, 2015, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Double-D

stanly.joseph.......That is exactly what I meant. McIntosh specifications have always been the published minimum performance standards, not the maximum. Their amplifiers have always outperformed publish specifications, often by a wide margin. A look at the MC601 meter I posted clearly presents the MC601's ability to deliver a 1000 watts without having the Power Guard circuits coming on. The MC452 will easily deliver 700 watts of output power when pushed, again without Power Guard kicking in and well within its rated distortion specs. That's what I meant when I said the MC452 is a powerhouse.

That's awesome double D! Just thinking about it makes heart beat even faster!!! :-)))

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**stanly.joseph** · May 31, 2015, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by mihamusic

Hi:

I am using MC452 on 800D - more then enough POWER :-)

BR : MM

Good to know. How's the synergy?

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**stanly.joseph** · June 2, 2015, 01:54 AM

Check this out

http://www.amp-shootout.com/2.html

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**stanly.joseph** · June 2, 2015, 03:09 AM

Well I've made up my mind. It's gonna be the 452. Now I just have to negotiate the best deal :-))

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**stanly.joseph** · November 10, 2015, 12:48 PM

Just an update:

Instead of upgrading to the mc452 for my 2 channel entertainment, I postponed it and went for the C2500 stereo pre-amp instead.

I wish I could invite every one of you into my humble abode to listen to some tunes. I simply can't describe how sweet the sound is now.....so sweet I could cry. And that's just with a XPR 5 amp.

Just imagine how dry my eyes would be when I get the 452!!!! Oh Lord thank you for my pair of ears and for Mcintosh.

Roma

**joeinid** · November 10, 2015, 01:34 PM

Congratulations Roma! You've made wonderful choices. Enjoy.

**stanly.joseph** · November 15, 2015, 09:13 AM

Thank you Joe

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**joeinid** · November 15, 2015, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by stanly.joseph

Thank you Joe

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You are very welcome. I would love an MC452 myself.

**stanly.joseph** · November 15, 2015, 06:28 PM

My dealer is also recommending the 275 tube amp. Wonder if that will even scratch the 803D's power hungry bellies. Seems so teeny!

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**joeinid** · November 15, 2015, 08:03 PM

I am not sure if a single MC275 will be powerful enough for the 803D's. You could start with one and add a second if necessary. That is if you want tubes.

**stanly.joseph** · November 15, 2015, 09:02 PM

I'll give both an audition to see which impresses me the most.

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**Mike** · November 15, 2015, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by stanly.joseph

My dealer is also recommending the 275 tube amp. Wonder if that will even scratch the 803D's power hungry bellies. Seems so teeny!

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You will want a pair of 275's. Great amps, but not as smooth on the top end as the 452/601 IMO. Depends what you're after. Controlling the tweeter or just a different sound? If your tweeter doesn't give you any unnecessary extra bite - go for a pair of 275's and never look back.

If the tweeter does - then 452/601 is the way to go. No fundamental sonic difference IMO - just comes down to whether you want monos or stereo.

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**stanly.joseph** · November 15, 2015, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

You will want a pair of 275's. Great amps, but not as smooth on the top end as the 452/601 IMO. Depends what you're after. Controlling the tweeter or just a different sound? If your tweeter doesn't give you any unnecessary extra bite - go for a pair of 275's and never look back.

If the tweeter does - then 452/601 is the way to go. No fundamental sonic difference IMO - just comes down to whether you want monos or stereo.

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452 is my goal unless something else blows me away.....I already own the C2500 preamp, and all I've been reading is what a great combo the 2500 and 452 is. The 275 is not quad balanced either. Zero noise is my absolute goal. I want total and complete blackness in between the colorful tunes.

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**Mike** · November 15, 2015, 09:21 PM

You can't go wrong with the 452 - at least until you try to lift it by yourself.

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**stanly.joseph** · November 15, 2015, 09:39 PM

Now if only my dealer could give me the same great deal he did on the 2500, I'll be friggin ecstatic!!

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**stanly.joseph** · November 15, 2015, 09:44 PM

Anybody owns this salamander synergy cabinets? Wondering how comfortably the macs would fit in it.....the specs seems alright except for the depth of only 18 inches which means the mac would stick out the rears.

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**Mgard** · November 16, 2015, 12:18 AM

I have a Salamander triple cabinet which has vented back covers that extend the debt of the cabinet. If I remember correctly my cabinet is the Sonoma model. It gives me an extra 4 to 5 inches. My MC601's fit without a problem.

Mike

**stanly.joseph** · November 16, 2015, 12:19 AM

Awesome!!! Than the 452 shouldn't be a problem

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**stanly.joseph** · November 16, 2015, 12:20 AM

Hey Mike

Can you post a pic of your setup in the salamander ?

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**jdandy** · November 16, 2015, 12:45 AM

stanly.joseph.......I have a two section Salamander Synergy rack in my living room system. I don't use the back panels because I have the sides closed and wanted the extra ventilation. My MC601 amps fit on the bottom shelf without a problem.

**Mgard** · November 16, 2015, 10:32 AM

stanly.joseph, I snapped this before I saw your email this morning. You can get these metal covers with vents or with fans. The Mac amps run so cool heat is not an issue in my cabinet. I don't remember what they cost but I bought 3 of them. Browse to Salamander designs to see the vented covers. I have to post 3 more times to add pictures. I will in a real soon so I can show you what they look like.

~Mike

**stanly.joseph** · November 16, 2015, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mgard

stanly.joseph, I snapped this before I saw your email this morning. You can get these metal covers with vents or with fans. The Mac amps run so cool heat is not an issue in my cabinet. I don't remember what they cost but I bought 3 of them. Browse to Salamander designs to see the vented covers. I have to post 3 more times to add pictures. I will in a real soon so I can show you what they look like.

~Mike

Setup Looks real nice. I've seen those rear vented covers but I'm planning on just having the regular flat kind and cut it where necessary to make space for the Amps rear and also for easy future access.

I understand the height of each component space can be adjusted, just the width and depth are fixed. And I see you have two 601's sitting in there quite comfortably. That's great!

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**jdandy** · November 16, 2015, 03:49 PM

stanly.joseph.......I was having difficulty getting my photo to appear but I finally got the photo of my rack to show in post #30.

**Mgard** · November 16, 2015, 04:17 PM

The reason I went with the extended back covers is I didn't want to get dust accumulating on the backs of my amps. OCD I guess.

I do have my cabinet on sliders but it is a pain in the tuchas to pull it out from the wall.

~Mike

**stanly.joseph** · November 16, 2015, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Double-D

stanly.joseph.......I was having difficulty getting my photo to appear but I finally got the photo of my rack to show in post #30.

That looks nice! and on wheels!!!
I can't believe those tiny wheels can carry all that load.

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**jdandy** · November 16, 2015, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by stanly.joseph

That looks nice! and on wheels!!!
I can't believe those tiny wheels can carry all that load.

stanly.joseph.......There are six casters supporting the rack. The rack with gear weighs approximately 400 lbs. so that is about 66 lbs. per caster. I wouldn't want to try and roll this rack full of gear around the house but it works well enough to allow me to pull the rack away from the wall when I need to get at the connections and cables.

**stanly.joseph** · November 17, 2015, 05:25 AM

All that just for 2 channel entertainment double D? WOW and I thought I was crazy!!!

Must sound pretty damn sweet though huh? What speakers you driving?

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**stanly.joseph** · November 17, 2015, 05:29 AM

Hey what's the significance of a buzz vs a hiss coming out of your tweeters?
I hear buzz with RCA's and Hiss with XLR's

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**jdandy** · November 17, 2015, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by stanly.joseph

All that just for 2 channel entertainment double D? WOW and I thought I was crazy!!!

Must sound pretty damn sweet though huh? What speakers you driving?

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stanly.joseph.......The living room system has PMC EB1i speakers. The studio system has Sonus faber Amati Anniversario speakers. The vintage system has JBL 4312A speakers. The home theater system has JBL LSR-6332 speakers, JBL LSR-6328P speakers, and a pair of McIntosh XLS112 subwoofers. All speakers are powered by McIntosh amplifiers except the three JBL LSR6328P"s which are bi-amped active speakers.

**ddb71** · November 17, 2015, 11:50 AM

Hi stanly.joseph,

personaly i'm not abig fans from Mcintosh but hte "new Mc series" (452/601/...) have a diffeernt sound vs the "old" 501/252/....is a personal taste but the new 452 is a very good amplifier.

452 or 601? for me the choice is only a question of $$$$and place. -> the 452 have enough power for the 80% of the speakers , the perfect match will be the C2500.

You can go with the Emotiva for the HT and the combo C2500/Mc452 for a great stereo system.

with a new speaker (next year?

) B&W / PMC -> they soud very good with Mc gears you have no problem to listen with pleasure you system..(imho)

a friend had the 601 with Focal Utopia: was a good sound BUT now the with PMC MB2 se the system sound MUCH better, really fantastic.

**stanly.joseph** · November 19, 2015, 01:10 PM

Hey guys

Here's the deal. My ultimate goal in stereo 2 channel amplification for my system (as some of you might already know) is the MC452. That's what I want and that's what I'll get when I'm ready to make the investment. Key word is "ready" which means I'm not ready at this time (for obvious reasons) and am looking at an ETA of 6-12 months.

Here's the question: what amp can I get in the mean time that'll warm up the sound sweetly, breath new life into my 803D's without breaking the bank of course.....keep in mind, I'll be owning this unit temporarily and will be selling it most probably on Audiogon when I'm ready for the 452.

What do you guys think of Jolida amps?

Thanks much in advance for your input. Appreciate it.

My gear:
Oppo 105D
C2500 pre-amp
Emotiva XPR-5
803D mains

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**stanly.joseph** · February 24, 2016, 07:45 PM

Here it is baby!!!

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**jdandy** · February 24, 2016, 08:06 PM

Stan.......Fantastic. You made a wise choice on an amplifier that will keep you happy for many years.

Congratulations.

**MDP** · February 25, 2016, 09:37 AM

Congrats on a fantastic sounding amp!

**Mike** · February 25, 2016, 09:38 AM

Congrats Stan! That's a fantastic amp.

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**stanly.joseph** · February 25, 2016, 10:19 AM

Thanks guys! I'm so excited I think I'm gonna pass out when the actual moment arrives....this is almost as exciting as the first time I got laid

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**Mike** · February 25, 2016, 10:33 AM

Stan - I'm enjoying watching your journey into this wonderful hobby.

**stanly.joseph** · February 25, 2016, 10:47 AM

Thanks Mike.

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**Paul** · February 25, 2016, 10:51 AM

Nice Stan. I enjoyed my MC452 and 601's. I really think they are worth every pennies. Let us know how you like them

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**kzhtoo** · February 25, 2016, 11:16 AM

Congrats Stan! 452 looks wonderful and read a lot of good things about it and I always wanted to try.

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