Thread: The Ultimate MAGICO Experience for Audioshark Members - Saturday August 27, 2016

More on the Q-sub:

The Electronic Crossover and DSP Control System of the QSUB15 is extremely versatile and complex. When setup properly it will seamlessly integrate the QSUB15's with your main loudspeakers and provide similar sub/satellite performance that you enjoyed in the M3 / QSUB15 demonstration.

The Room EQ Wizard software is compatible with PC or MAC and is available online for free. The other software required is for the Omni-MICROPHONE and Magico DSP software.

I still can't get over the combined tweeter, midrange and BASS(!!!) of the M3's. Bloody seamless. I mean - gigantic planar like seamlessness.

Where did that bass come from? It filled the huge 24 X 33 X 13 room.

That Gregory Porter track Alon played is still in my head. Holy crap. I got goosebumps.

Originally Posted by a.wayne

which Porter track was that .... ?

I forget the name. "God bless the child"????

Guys - I arranged to send a beautiful $300 gourmet wine gift basket to Alon, David and Peter as a thank you from all of us for their hospitality. They will get it Tuesday.

Nice Mike, I am glad all went well.

Originally Posted by Mike

More on the Q-sub:

The Electronic Crossover and DSP Control System of the QSUB15 is extremely versatile and complex. When setup properly it will seamlessly integrate the QSUB15's with your main loudspeakers and provide similar sub/satellite performance that you enjoyed in the M3 / QSUB15 demonstration.

The Room EQ Wizard software is compatible with PC or MAC and is available online for free. The other software required is for the Omni-MICROPHONE and Magico DSP software.

Have the Q-Sub or S-Sub been upgraded to the latest Magico woofer technology with graphene?

My wife and I attended this event yesterday.


I also want to convey many, many thanks to Magico and Mike for putting this event together. From the moment we arrived to the end of dinner hours later, the hospitality from Alon, Dave and Peter was top notch, warm and appreciated.


While I had read and heard a fair bit about Magico's operation, there is nothing like seeing it first hand. It quickly becomes evident just how meticulous the operation is and how much of a balance it is between state of the art R&D, skilled labor and careful logistical planning. It's also fascinating to not only see HOW something is built, but WHY it is built that way (where not only are sonics the obvious end goal but where strategic manufacturing is vital to making the product attainable).


We got to see a few different products in different states of assembly including a batch of M3s. To say that my wife and I were impressed is an understatement.


And as for hearing the M3's, I agree with everything Mike said. The drivers are seamless, and the coherence of the speaker incredible. As an owner of the M3's bigger brother, the MPro, I am used to this (and spoiled rotten by it). I have been exposed to a great number of loudspeakers over the past couple decades, owned a fair number of them, and not until owning Magico did I clearly understand what lack of distortion, artifacts (such as ringing or driver breakup), and seamless integration brings to the presentation.


I expected a somewhat smaller sound than my MPros but was surprised that scale was not an issue, nor was lack of bass. Extremely impressive given the volume of the room. Other than that - no surprises. The differences in sources (digital versus analog) was not subtle; in my experience with the MPros, it simply conveys everything upstream with ease. I have been lucky enough to have a variety of electronics and cabling mate with my MPro since I've owned them and a change to any component can change the character of the presentation drastically. And all the while, the ability of these speakers to effortlessly reproduce complex musical passages without homogenizing the sound never ceases to amaze me. I am so spoiled by not only the separation and articulation of individual instruments (which make following the various musical lines easy and rewarding) but also being able to enjoy detail, harmonics and texture (including the magic produced by weaving various instruments together).


I currently (but temporarily) own Pass, Soulution and CAT electronics and if I switch just one of these components in/out you'd think I had different speakers. So when I entered the listening room and saw we'd be listening to Soulution electronics, I knew what to expect in terms of 'house sound' and other than the scale of the M3's there were no curveballs.


This was the first time I got to hear the Q subs and I was very impressed. If I ever clear enough equipment out of my listening room I might make space for these.


Sometimes I just have to reflect on how lucky we are that the state of audio has come this far. Ten years ago we might have enjoyed our systems, but we didn't get to experience transparency and performance like this. If you've read this far, it's obvious I'm a fan. I think Magico is one of the best loudspeaker manufacturers, if not THE best ever and I'm amazed at the way they keep pushing the envelope (while many competitors rest on their laurels).


Being the audio geek that I am, I truly enjoyed all the various conversation, both at the factory and at dinner - and as usual, learned a lot while truly enjoying myself. It was great to meet more forum members as well and discuss our systems as well as our impressions. Speaking of dinner - the quality of the food and service was outstanding and my wife and I had a great time.


Thanks again to Mike, Alon, Dave and Peter for making this happen.

What a great event. It sounds as if all who attended were treated to a one of those experiences that are very rare in this hobby.

I have heard the Gregory Porter track used in other demos. When the system is right it is special.

Thanks for the photos and comments

Yup
As good and emotionally involving as when I saw him last summer live at the Hollywood bowl.
From the Be Good CD

Originally Posted by KINGSRULE

What Soulution gear do you have?

The 720. I've also had the 701s briefly.

I have SEVERAL pictures and lots of videos of the listening to post once I get home. I had to take in As much of SF as I could today. It was a great tour. Really top notch. I wouldn't expect less tho. And we got tshirts


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But no hats.

Originally Posted by bthomas9

.... And we got tshirts

But no hats.

Originally Posted by bthomas9

.... And we got tshirts

So, it appears the M3 is one great speaker. I am glad I was too tired to go, since I saved myself $75K.

Can someone give a reasonable description of how it excels over the S5 vII, or the S7. When I was there for the S5 vs S7 demo I felt the S7 was better, but not twice as better based on the price ratio.

Originally Posted by madfloyd

My wife and I attended this event yesterday.


I also want to convey many, many thanks to Magico and Mike for putting this event together. From the moment we arrived to the end of dinner hours later, the hospitality from Alon, Dave and Peter was top notch, warm and appreciated.


While I had read and heard a fair bit about Magico's operation, there is nothing like seeing it first hand. It quickly becomes evident just how meticulous the operation is and how much of a balance it is between state of the art R&D, skilled labor and careful logistical planning. It's also fascinating to not only see HOW something is built, but WHY it is built that way (where not only are sonics the obvious end goal but where strategic manufacturing is vital to making the product attainable).


We got to see a few different products in different states of assembly including a batch of M3s. To say that my wife and I were impressed is an understatement.


And as for hearing the M3's, I agree with everything Mike said. The drivers are seamless, and the coherence of the speaker incredible. As an owner of the M3's bigger brother, the MPro, I am used to this (and spoiled rotten by it). I have been exposed to a great number of loudspeakers over the past couple decades, owned a fair number of them, and not until owning Magico did I clearly understand what lack of distortion, artifacts (such as ringing or driver breakup), and seamless integration brings to the presentation.


I expected a somewhat smaller sound than my MPros but was surprised that scale was not an issue, nor was lack of bass. Extremely impressive given the volume of the room. Other than that - no surprises. The differences in sources (digital versus analog) was not subtle; in my experience with the MPros, it simply conveys everything upstream with ease. I have been lucky enough to have a variety of electronics and cabling mate with my MPro since I've owned them and a change to any component can change the character of the presentation drastically. And all the while, the ability of these speakers to effortlessly reproduce complex musical passages without homogenizing the sound never ceases to amaze me. I am so spoiled by not only the separation and articulation of individual instruments (which make following the various musical lines easy and rewarding) but also being able to enjoy detail, harmonics and texture (including the magic produced by weaving various instruments together).


I currently (but temporarily) own Pass, Soulution and CAT electronics and if I switch just one of these components in/out you'd think I had different speakers. So when I entered the listening room and saw we'd be listening to Soulution electronics, I knew what to expect in terms of 'house sound' and other than the scale of the M3's there were no curveballs.


This was the first time I got to hear the Q subs and I was very impressed. If I ever clear enough equipment out of my listening room I might make space for these.


Sometimes I just have to reflect on how lucky we are that the state of audio has come this far. Ten years ago we might have enjoyed our systems, but we didn't get to experience transparency and performance like this. If you've read this far, it's obvious I'm a fan. I think Magico is one of the best loudspeaker manufacturers, if not THE best ever and I'm amazed at the way they keep pushing the envelope (while many competitors rest on their laurels).


Being the audio geek that I am, I truly enjoyed all the various conversation, both at the factory and at dinner - and as usual, learned a lot while truly enjoying myself. It was great to meet more forum members as well and discuss our systems as well as our impressions. Speaking of dinner - the quality of the food and service was outstanding and my wife and I had a great time.


Thanks again to Mike, Alon, Dave and Peter for making this happen.

Terrific post, Ian. Sounds like it was an amazing day. Well done Mike and Magico.

Best, Ken

Sounds like a great event. Did the M3 have the new base? If so, did you hear them with and with out? And did Magico discuss details about these speaker bases and if they would offer them for other models?

How did the analog and digital compare? What cartridge were they using?

Originally Posted by BlueFox

So, it appears the M3 is one great speaker. I am glad I was too tired to go, since I saved myself $75K.

Can someone give a reasonable description of how it excels over the S5 vII, or the S7. When I was there for the S5 vs S7 demo I felt the S7 was better, but not twice as better based on the price ratio.

Bud, the M series is a lot more open and airy versus the S which is warmer. The M is a lot cleaner as well. I haven't heard the MkII of the S but I had the S5 and the MPro in the same room for 8 months; it's not even close.

Originally Posted by PeterA

Sounds like a great event. Did the M3 have the new base? If so, did you hear them with and with out? And did Magico discuss details about these speaker bases and if they would offer them for other models?

How did the analog and digital compare? What cartridge were they using?

While I personally did not check, I'm fairly certain the MPods were on the M3s.

while I don't know about other models, I know they will be available for my MPros.

I found the analog much better than the digital. They were using a Goldfinger.

Originally Posted by PeterA

Sounds like a great event. Did the M3 have the new base? If so, did you hear them with and with out? And did Magico discuss details about these speaker bases and if they would offer them for other models?

How did the analog and digital compare? What cartridge were they using?

In regard to the new mpod bases-I did specifically ask as the "improvement with bases was so monumental" if we would get to hear the difference for ourselves? Sadly they said too much setup time. If I had to guess monumental for people who listen every day to superior speakers in a perfectly designed and treated room then a victory is a .1 to .5% improvement IMHO. The theory and engineering of these new bases was impressive. But as Mike pointed out-if these are the most rigid speakers and cabinets-how much vibrational energy could come down to a traditional spike -hit floor and rebound to reenter speaker and disrupt sound wave accurate reproduction is probably not huge. Maybe on loose less rigid designed speakers effect might be far more noticeable. That being said, for almost 10 k for diehards ,maybe you get you that extra .1-.5% improvement. I would have love to blindly have heard them and judge how impactful the differences are. That being said, the floating floor, mpods, and M3 were outstanding in all aspects and even better when the 2 subs were turned on. The subs impact was huge and easy to appreciate.
Nick

The other thing I notice about the M3 is that standard configuration is with the spikes directly under the body of the speaker, like the original S5 for example. When the platform is added, the contact points with the floor are spread significantly further apart, creating what looks like a more stable base. In addition, it looks as if the whole speaker is raised up a bit as well. I can't help but wonder if these changes also affect the sound of M3, more so than simply swapping out the standard spikes for MPODs on a speaker like the S5 Mk2 or S7, which already have outriggers.

jejuvpi1rlag.jpg

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At this level of system - a .1 to .5% improvement does cost a lot. People spend $10,000 on a single power cord or a 1 meter interconnect and probably don't get a .5% improvement. Its a sad fact in this hobby we love.

Originally Posted by veindoc

In regard to the new mpod bases-I did specifically ask as the "improvement with bases was so monumental" if we would get to hear the difference for ourselves? Sadly they said too much setup time. If I had to guess monumental for people who listen every day to superior speakers in a perfectly designed and treated room then a victory is a .1 to .5% improvement IMHO. The theory and engineering of these new bases was impressive. But as Mike pointed out-if these are the most rigid speakers and cabinets-how much vibrational energy could come down to a traditional spike -hit floor and rebound to reenter speaker and disrupt sound wave accurate reproduction is probably not huge. Maybe on loose less rigid designed speakers effect might be far more noticeable. That being said, for almost 10 k for diehards ,maybe you get you that extra .1-.5% improvement. I would have love to blindly have heard them and judge how impactful the differences are. That being said, the floating floor, mpods, and M3 were outstanding in all aspects and even better when the 2 subs were turned on. The subs impact was huge and easy to appreciate.
Nick

Duplicate

Originally Posted by the professor

Duplicate

I totally agree. I wish we could have heard with and without mpods to appreciate that improvement regardless how big or small that improvement might be. LOL that 10k seems a bargain compared to the 40k for 2 subs that clearly demonstrated a easily appreciated sonic improvement !


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It would have been great to hear the comparison for sure. Next time for sure.

The subs were incredible.

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

What lost in this MPOD discussion is the standard spikes that come with M3. I saw them on a shelf and they seem to be very well built, at least for the naked eyes, it's nothing like the spikes that came with my S3's.

Agreed! I saw them too.

Originally Posted by Tan

I better start saving then:-), most likely they dont come cheap.

Did Magico say anything regarding if it is possible to retro fitt the copper gasket/rings on M Pro?

How would you compare the M3 with its bigger M brother?

Best Tommy

Hi Tommy,

They did not talk about retro-fitting the copper gasket rings on the MPro. I did, however, ask why the copper ring was only on the midrange driver and not the woofers of the M3 but for the life of me I can't remember the response (although I remember being satisfied with it). I asked because my recollection was that the S7 had copper rings for the woofers and also because I was wondering if simply raising the subject of copper rings would trigger any discussion of MPro retrofitting; obviously I was not very direct.

I expected the M3 to sound smaller than the MPro given the size difference in cabinets and drivers. I did not experience that; perhaps it was the difference in room - the speakers were 13 feet apart versus 8 feet for my MPros (in my home). Otherwise the sound seemed the same - clean & linear - as you would expect. It's hard to truly know without spending a lot more time with it, but my perception is that it's a smaller version in physical size, not quality.

I will say that it was pretty special to hear a great pair of speakers in a room such that they can be 13 feet apart. Great presentation. My wife came out of the room saying she had 'room envy'.

It would be interesting to hear a comparison of the M3's with and without the MPOD's. I understand that swapping them in and out would be a pain and we know our audio memory is short.

Magico must have put a great deal of thought into the design. Both Magico and Wilson have been adamant that Stillpoints are not the answer under their speakers so seeing Magico address the problem with a different design is intriguing.

Originally Posted by madfloyd

Hi Tommy,

They did not talk about retro-fitting the copper gasket rings on the MPro. I did, however, ask why the copper ring was only on the midrange driver and not the woofers of the M3 but for the life of me I can't remember the response (although I remember being satisfied with it). I asked because my recollection was that the S7 had copper rings for the woofers and also because I was wondering if simply raising the subject of copper rings would trigger any discussion of MPro retrofitting; obviously I was not very direct.

I expected the M3 to sound smaller than the MPro given the size difference in cabinets and drivers. I did not experience that; perhaps it was the difference in room - the speakers were 13 feet apart versus 8 feet for my MPros (in my home). Otherwise the sound seemed the same - clean & linear - as you would expect. It's hard to truly know without spending a lot more time with it, but my perception is that it's a smaller version in physical size, not quality.

I will say that it was pretty special to hear a great pair of speakers in a room such that they can be 13 feet apart. Great presentation. My wife came out of the room saying she had 'room envy'.

I find this quite remarkable. You, if anyone, would have the bragging rights owning the unobtainable M Pros. But nevertheless, you are stating you felt nothing was really missing with the M3s.

There's nothing more sincere than someone's praise, who does have the choice. Even though I find the M3s a tad on the dear side price-wise, maybe I need to give them a more careful consideration.

Maybe I'll come around with the footers then as well .


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http://www.analogplanet.com/content/...r5WcXOfxt0C.97

I love Fremer, but he is drawn to the Wilson sound which we all know is different from Magico. I would have liked to have heard the sound in that room to have more context on his comments.

I did think it was strange that Alon Wolf was in two places at once on that Saturday.

Originally Posted by LVB

Typical, not much love from Fremer to Magico, even when he can't come up with anything bad to say about the product, he mount a personal attack on Wolf You can tell when they are really trying when they say "I am not the only one who thought so"
Interesting, how the Stereophile crowd manage to stay impartial to what many will consider one of the best loudspeakers out there.

Personal attack on Wolf? That's not how I read it. He just didn't care for Wolf's demo music and volume. Honestly, when I last heard a Magico demo by Wolf, neither did I. It was all audiophile mumbo jumbo music.

Since when is a Stereophile reviewer supposed to be impartial? He prefers Wilson to Magico - while Valin is the opposite. Who cares?

So there is a conspiracy theory now? JA explained it fully and has said that Magico is actually under review.

99.9% of your posts are Magico related, so you don't need to tell me what or what not to post. Thank you.

I don't think he was attacking Wolf personally, rather questioning those speakers in "that" room. Whether he is biased against Magico it didn't come across that way in the article. Even for the most pro- Magico customer I think many would agree it is easier to tailor most of Wilson's larger speakers to less than perfect rooms due to all of the driver adjustments. That doesn't make Wilson a better speaker.

It's funny that when MF was playing his selections at one of Paragon's events last year, a few of us walked out due to his choice of music.

Originally Posted by still-one

I don't think he was attacking Wolf personally, rather questioning those speakers in "that" room. Whether he is biased against Magico it didn't come across that way in the article. Even for the most pro- Magico customer I think many would agree it is easier to tailor most of Wilson's larger speakers to less than perfect rooms due to all of the driver adjustments. That doesn't make Wilson a better speaker.

It's funny that when MF was playing his selections at one of Paragon's events last year, a few of us walked out due to his choice of music.

I don't agree. In my experience, the bass bump and ported design was a nightmare.


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Originally Posted by a.wayne

There are good and bad ported designs , the best ported design i have heard , is a standup Bass ...

Very room and setup dependent. I've found REAR ported designs can cause more problems than downward or front ported designs and I've had very little problems setting up sealed designs.


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Originally Posted by still-one

I don't think he was attacking Wolf personally, rather questioning those speakers in "that" room. Whether he is biased against Magico it didn't come across that way in the article. Even for the most pro- Magico customer I think many would agree it is easier to tailor most of Wilson's larger speakers to less than perfect rooms due to all of the driver adjustments. That doesn't make Wilson a better speaker.

It's funny that when MF was playing his selections at one of Paragon's events last year, a few of us walked out due to his choice of music.

In my experience ported designs are much more difficoult to setup is problematic rooms than sealed box designs.

Originally Posted by a.wayne

There are good and bad ported designs , the best ported design i have heard , is a standup Bass ...

LoL. Brilliant.


We can add the double bass and many orchestral instruments – all with ported cabinets (nee sound holes) which enable them to project their sound more efficiently at low frequencies and with greater acoustic power and headroom via the physics of energy release rather than attempted containment.

Originally Posted by Mike

I don't agree. In my experience, the bass bump and ported design was a nightmare.


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Mike
As an example I doubt there is any way one of the larger Magico speakers would ever sound optimal in MF's listening room. It is too small. With Wilson's he is able to adjust/direct the mid's and tweeter drivers towards his listening position to "help" offset the small room size.

I have no desire to debate the ported versus sealed enclosure issue. IMO it is all set-up and room dependent.

Originally Posted by Mike

Very room and setup dependent. I've found REAR ported designs can cause more problems than downward or front ported designs and I've had very little problems setting up sealed designs.


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Mike
Magico should have had you set up their gear at past RMAF's. They never sounded great at the Marriott but shined at the Hyatt and in my local dealers space.