Thread: Magico S5 mk2

Originally Posted by LVB

Spent few hours listening to the S7 in Brussels New Music show. I think that the S7 in a in a different league all together then the current S5, I can't imagine anyone missing it. Truly a magnificent piece (and I am used to the Q3). Extremely smooth, rich and full without losing any resolution throughout the entire spectrum. The volume played was staggering but zero fatigue. These are one special speakers. If the new Mk2 S5 will be similar, it should make for hell of a product.

Does anyone know the fundamental differences between the S7 and S5 mk2? Same tweeter for example? Just curious.

The S7 definitely looks to be a nice step up. When I heard they at RMAF, they sounded nice.

Originally Posted by Rhapsody

Mike, I really don't even feel like the existing S5 is even close to the S7 sonically, it really is a completely different sounding speaker, literally in every attribute.

Magico makes a technically, well designed speaker and the S7 is an excellent evolution in the S series. It begs the question however: where does this leave the Q series?

I still chuckle to myself when I think of the original S series vs Q series debate. I remember hearing one of the first pairs of the S5's in Toronto when they first came out. They were so new and this one of the first pairs delivered. There was literally nothing anywhere on any website that you could find about them (other than pictures and specs). I A/B them against the Q5 for hours. I remember scratching my head wondering why the S5 sounded better and yet cost half as much. The dealer even agreed. I posted my thoughts on another site and was criticized by the Magico fans. The S series better than the Q series? Blasphemy they cried! I stood by my experience. The S was a more musical, engaging speaker and I liked the price better too! Heck, I even bought a pair, yet since sold it to Bud (which he subsequently blew up)

As time went on, it seems like no one is talking about the Q5 and very little about the Q series in general and I would think the S series is a bigger seller for Magico. The numbers don't lie....

For me, having heard all the Q's (even the Q7 mk2) and all the S's (except the S5 mk2/S1 mk2), the M Project is one of those speakers that rises above all the others in all the other lines. The M Project was by a large margin, the best Magico speaker I've ever heard. I do agree that the S7 gets you close. But just looking at the M Project gives one goosebumps. Gorgeous.

Originally Posted by Mike

Magico makes a technically, well designed speaker and the S7 is an excellent evolution in the S series. It begs the question however: where does this leave the Q series?

I still chuckle to myself when I think of the original S series vs Q series debate. I remember hearing one of the first pairs of the S5's in Toronto when they first came out. They were so new and this one of the first pairs delivered. There was literally nothing anywhere on any website that you could find about them (other than pictures and specs). I A/B them against the Q5 for hours. I remember scratching my head wondering why the S5 sounded better and yet cost half as much. The dealer even agreed. I posted my thoughts on another site and was criticized by the Magico fans. The S series better than the Q series? Blasphemy they cried! I stood by my experience. The S was a more musical, engaging speaker and I liked the price better too! Heck, I even bought a pair, yet since sold it to Bud (which he subsequently blew up)

As time went on, it seems like no one is talking about the Q5 and very little about the Q series in general and I would think the S series is a bigger seller for Magico. The numbers don't lie....

For me, having heard all the Q's (even the Q7 mk2) and all the S's (except the S5 mk2/S1 mk2), the M Project is one of those speakers that rises above all the others in all the other lines. The M Project was by a large margin, the best Magico speaker I've ever heard. I do agree that the S7 gets you close. But just looking at the M Project gives one goosebumps. Gorgeous.

If your don't mind elaborating, how would you compare the M Project to your AVGARDE horn speaker?

Thanks........

Originally Posted by MRJAZZ

If your don't mind elaborating, how would you compare the M Project to your AVGARDE horn speaker?

Thanks........

Completely different. The M Project is an exercise in perfecting the science of sound. The driver integration is near flawless. The speaker is coherent from top to bottom. The cabinet rigidity is leading edge. The sound is big and bold.

I wouldn't be surprised if Magico launched a completely new series to replace the entire Q range, loosely based on the M-project (curved CF side panels).

I'm a Magico owner and I don't take any offense to this, Mike, seems fair to me. I love my speakers but also loved Avantegarde the last time I heard them. Looking forward to hearing yours next week.

Originally Posted by Rhapsody

****

I always feel that the "room" is really the speaker and the speakers are just air pumps

Agree Rhapsody. I've heard a number of audiophiles say the same thing. The room is part if the speaker system.

Btw, I sent Kal (at ARC) my basement/sound room measurements and am waiting to hear back with ARC's speaker recommendations.

It may very well be that I hold where I am. My current fronts, Paradigm S8 (v3) speakers may not have the pedigree of a Magico, Revel or Wilson inter alia, but many reviewers have commented that they perform well above their price point.

For the technically minded, the S8 (v3) has a super fast and light tweeter that has a beryllium dome and 20K gauss neodymium magnets. The mid is ultra light and strong that has an aluminum/cobalt alloy cone and 15K gauss neodymium magnets. And so forth.

Perhaps the best analogy is a sooped-up Chevy Camaro versus a Ferrari or Lamborghini. The Camaro might not have the pedigree or panache of a Ferrari or Lamborghini, but it will go just as fast.

Oh .. perhaps most important .. the S8s don't sound half bad. Let's see what ARC comes up with.

BIF

Originally Posted by LVB

I had both speakers, the S5 and now the Q3. No question in my mind of the superiority of the Q3, it is just a better speaker by all accounts. However, because they are voiced so linearly, they may not appeal to all listeners. With Magico you have to take your time and understand what is really going on. It is easier to do that with the S5, it is more in-line with what most people are used to. It sounds like with the S7 (and the MPro) you seem to get the best of both worlds.

I completely agree with this comment. I much prefer the Q3 to the S5. I found it more transparent, more refined, more natural sounding. And it is much better looking, IMO. The M Pro is my favorite Magico speaker. I don't really like any of the old S series, but I look forward to hearing the new S7 and S5II.

Just sold my S5s. I wanted to get the S5 mk 2, but I was told that all initaial batch is sold out and they will not available before late match / early april

I'm looking at my options now. Having no speakers during wintertime (which is the only time of the year I actually have the time to listen) is not an option for me.

Maybe I will try the Blumenhofer FS-1, or the Raidho D1 ... hmmm, decisions, decisions.

That sucks.

Raidho D1s would be my choice.

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Just sold my S5s. I wanted to get the S5 mk 2, but I was told that all initaial batch is sold out and they will not available before late match / early april

I'm looking at my options now. Having no speakers during wintertime (which is the only time of the year I actually have the time to listen) is not an option for me.

Maybe I will try the Blumenhofer FS-1, or the Raidho D1 ... hmmm, decisions, decisions.

Sold out? Wow.

Focal Sopra 1's?

What about S7's instead of S5 mk2's?

I would only do Raidho if you can get them for a steal. If resale in Poland is anything like resale here...


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I echo Mike - S7's instead? Heard them this weekend, they are very very good.

Originally Posted by madfloyd

I echo Mike - S7's instead? Heard them this weekend, they are very very good.

Can you tell us more about it?


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The S7 are too big. And too much for just one woofer more. If anything, I would go with the smaller S3 mk 2.

Originally Posted by Elberoth

The S7 are too big. And too much for just one woofer more. If anything, I would go with the smaller S3 mk 2.

Originally Posted by madfloyd

I echo Mike - S7's instead? Heard them this weekend, they are very very good.

Ian, did you go to the Goodwin event this weekend? What electronics did they use with the S7s?

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Just sold my S5s. I wanted to get the S5 mk 2, but I was told that all initaial batch is sold out and they will not available before late match / early april

I'm looking at my options now. Having no speakers during wintertime (which is the only time of the year I actually have the time to listen) is not an option for me.

Maybe I will try the Blumenhofer FS-1, or the Raidho D1 ... hmmm, decisions, decisions.

Hi Adam,

Congratulations on selling your S5's! It's unfortunate that the S5 mk2 is sold out until March/April. The Raidho D1's are terrific speakers but it is true that you will lose a lot if you if you want to turn around and resell them. However, the D1's sound is different enough from Magico's that you may want to hold onto them even after you get the S5 mk2 for their different flavor. Plus the D1's aren't too big to keep around for a second pair of speakers.

Best,
Ken

Moral of the story is don't sell your speakers before you have the replacement.

It would have been interesting to hear an S5/S5v2 comparison.

Originally Posted by asiufy

Adam,

I don't even know if they have a dealer in Poland, but if you want to stick to a reasonably similar sound, have you thought of the YGs?

cheers,
alex

I listened to the YG Hailey with Soulution 541/520/501 components and Kubala Sosna cable loom earlier this year. I thought they were nice sounding speakers but their sonic performance didn't really stand out to me. On the other hand, the Raidho D1, D2 and D3 really knocked me over with their lifelike presentation. Just my opinion.

Ken

Originally Posted by Dpod4

Listened to my 20.7s and my TAD CR1s today. I like the TADs better than the S5s I just sold.

The Magnepan 20.7's are terrific speakers. One of the best "you are there" speakers. With their huge soundstage, they really make you feel like you are at the recorded venue. I've never heard the TAD CR1's.

Ken

Originally Posted by Rhapsody

The word from Magico is there is no current plan to do a MKII version of the S3 at this time.

Having my S3s only since May that would good news. It also makes sense in terms of sound characteristics, as the S3 already has the new Magico voicing, which is slightly different from the S1 and S3.

Independently from my own, probably slightly lucky situation, I start to perceive the pace of model change at Magico slightly too rapid. From a product marketing point of view it is also slightly dumb, as Alon steals steals his own thunder.

Let's take the example of the S7: Lots of fanfare, lots of hype - to the extent that people are getting sick of it and Magico starts losing credibility. Then now, without letting the market settle and the S7 enjoy the sun a bit there is right away the next hoo hah. That would of course change, if there was an upgrade path...

I'm afraid people will start to get bored with Magico and this might not the best course of action to establish a household name. Remember the Moto RAZR? First the biggest thing since sliced bread for a short while, then it killed the brand. Where is Moto today?

Originally Posted by asiufy

Adam,

I don't even know if they have a dealer in Poland, but if you want to stick to a reasonably similar sound, have you thought of the YGs?


cheers,
alex

No, there isn't one. So one less option to worry about

Originally Posted by audio.bill

From the Magico announcment about the Mk2 S-series speakers they only mentioned the S1 and S5. I haven't heard anything about there being an S3 Mk2, have you?

No but this is a logical consequence. When you have the S1mk2, S5mk2 and S7 all with the new diamond coated tweeter and the new graphene midrange, it is just a question of time when the S3 gets the same upgrade. I bet they will launch one in Munich in May 2016.

Adam, why settle for second best for sake of a few months. There are many brands out there so worth having there is always a 3 month waiting list. By a pair of PSB's for now.

Originally Posted by Elberoth

No but this is a logical consequence. When you have the S1mk2, S5mk2 and S7 all with the new diamond coated tweeter and the new graphene midrange, it is just a question of time when the S3 gets the same upgrade. I bet they will launch one in Munich in May 2016.

Even though, as indicated in my earlier posting, the S3 is sounding-wise in a different place than the S1 and S5, I cannot say I am able to disagree with that statement.

Looking at the specs posted on another forum, in case they are real and not someone's dream-up, if the S1 mk2 and S1 mk2 really come with the diamond coated beryllium tweeter and graphene midrange, the S3 is liky to follow suit. BUT...

...Let me throw in a wild speculation in here: The S3 already has the aluminum woofers now also introduced in the S5 (not sure whether there was additionally some graphene coating talk related to the S5 mk2 woofers as well), but anyhow, it also has the monocoque which did not change in case of the S1 (just the lid got the nice M-Project style design), so might we be in for a S3 mk2 upgrade after a while after all, just replacing midrange and tweeter?

This is not in line with what happened to the S1 mk2, and the S5 mk2 midrange is not the same size as the original S5's midrange (S3 and S5 share the same midrange), so this is likely to be wishful thinking. But it is fun to speculate anyway.

However, looking at e.g. Ayre, and how they allow their products to keep their value for many years through reasonably priced upgrades, there is a logic and working model available that could be leveraged. I guess it is no news to current Magico owners, that based on the current model they are a rather bad investment, e.g. when considering what is the going price for pre-owned V3s nowadays.

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Having my S3s only since May that would good news. It also makes sense in terms of sound characteristics, as the S3 already has the new Magico voicing, which is slightly different from the S1 and S3.

Independently from my own, probably slightly lucky situation, I start to perceive the pace of model change at Magico slightly too rapid. From a product marketing point of view it is also slightly dumb, as Alon steals steals his own thunder.

Let's take the example of the S7: Lots of fanfare, lots of hype - to the extent that people are getting sick of it and Magico starts losing credibility. Then now, without letting the market settle and the S7 enjoy the sun a bit there is right away the next hoo hah. That would of course change, if there was an upgrade path...

I'm afraid people will start to get bored with Magico and this might not the best course of action to establish a household name. Remember the Moto RAZR? First the biggest thing since sliced bread for a short while, then it killed the brand. Where is Moto today?

Is it possible the hype is deserved? Have you heard the S7?

I read his statement as:

If a company has reasonably priced upgrades, then you don't have to sell your "old" model at a loss and then buy the new model. Thus saving a whole bunch of money to get the latest and greatest.

Like Magico did with the Q7 upgrade.

Originally Posted by LVB

Magico used prices, on an average, are as good (or bad) as any other high-end brand (in fact quite better than some, see Alexandria X2 on AG for $51K, or a typical Raidho or the big YG for 70% off ). I looked at Ayre, again, same as the rest averaging ~50% discount (Magico on an average is actually doing better). The V3 is 8 years old, and hold their value better than a similar era WP7 or Focal.

But hey, don't let the facts ruin your story

Originally Posted by Mark Jones

Adam, why settle for second best for sake of a few months. There are many brands out there so worth having there is always a 3 month waiting list. By a pair of PSB's for now.

You are probably right. I usually keep the speakers for no less than 3 years. 3 months will not make that much of a difference. I will borrow something just for the time beeing.

I just paid a deposit for the S5 mk 2

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

However, looking at e.g. Ayre, and how they allow their products to keep their value for many years through reasonably priced upgrades, there is a logic and working model available that could be leveraged.

It is easier to upgrade the amp or a DAC than it is to upgrade the speakers. Often all that is needed is a small PCB change.

In case of the S5, they have changed ALL the drive units (which probably means that also the x-over got reworked) plus they changed the top and bottom plates of the enclosure, so there is very little left unchanged - front, side panels and maybe some internal bracing. That's it. The upgrade would have to cost as much as the speaker itself.

Originally Posted by Elberoth

You are probably right. I usually keep the speakers for no less than 3 years. 3 months will not make that much of a difference. I will borrow something just for the time beeing.

I just paid a deposit for the S5 mk 2

Smart move, Adam. The best things in life are worth waiting for.

And that will give them a few months to work any bugs out.

Best,
Ken

Originally Posted by Elberoth

It is easier to upgrade the amp or a DAC than it is to upgrade the speakers. Often all that is needed is a small PCB change.

In case of the S5, they have changed ALL the drive units (which probably means that also the x-over got reworked) plus they changed the top and bottom plates of the enclosure, so there is very little left unchanged - front, side panels and maybe some internal bracing. That's it. The upgrade would have to cost as much as the speaker itself.

I guess you are right, an upgrade is usually not easy.

And your point about the cost of an upgrade is very sensible, if everything is changed everything needs to be paid. In case of the Ayre KX-Rs the upgrade costs 50% of the original, as the casework is kept and several of the key components on the inside are changed. In case of the Ayre QB-9 DAC, in the latest "upgrade", they changed even the DAC chip, so it is essentially a new product. Nevertheless there is there is always the benefit of not having to sell the old gear. That I find a bit bothersome.

This is a crazy hobby afterall, which has very little to do with rational thinking. Spending the price of a car on a component is for sure not very smart. But well, you either get on the bus or off the bus .

Originally Posted by the professor

I read his statement as:

If a company has reasonably priced upgrades, then you don't have to sell your "old" model at a loss and then buy the new model. Thus saving a whole bunch of money to get the latest and greatest.

Like Magico did with the Q7 upgrade.

Well observed . I think the Q7 are a good example.

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Well observed . I think the Q7 are a good example.

Yes, the Q7 mk2 upgrade was a great job by Magico and certainly not the path of least resistance.

Ken

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

Is it possible the hype is deserved? Have you heard the S7?

I guess that is a question of personal preference. As already a second time Magico owner, I love their design, believe in their engineering and enjoy their sound. No question about that. While I complain about the hype, I also do enjoy it and read all the writings .

Magico is a phantastic marketing company as well, way better than most of the high-end joints. But the question is what is too much. Sometimes, when you are truly outstanding, a little understatement is way cooler. E.g. while the M-Project is probably the most exciting speaker out there currently, in many people's eyes JVs 4-article series about it discredited the author, the magazine and the brand. In comparison, Rolls-Royce technical specs typically refer to any model's horsepower as "sufficient". In case of the S7, there has been a lots of marketing, but no reviews yet. Personally, I would have waited a bit before announcing the S5 mk2, as some of the S7 energy will now evaporate.

I heard the S7 in Munich, not for very long, not in the best conditions, not in their best demo (phase glitch). So, I will have to set aside time for a more quiet demo. But as a concept they are exciting.

What also needs to be understood now, is what we will get with the S5 mk2 in comparison to the S7. I personally preferred the S3 to the original S5 due to the improved midrange. And as I am not a bass head, I am not sure whether I will need three 10" woofers instead of two (also, I'm not sure whether the S7 also features the graphene coating in the woofers as announed for the S5 mk2 or if they are just aluminum). For me personally the S5 mk2 is now the most exciting product in the line-up (also strongly prefer the new design, just love it), while the S7 is yesterday's news. In European scoccer terms, when someone puts the ball in their own net, we call that an own-goal.