Magico S3 mk2

**Mike** · April 3, 2017, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

What amps are you using on Saturday, the soulutions ... ??

VAC

**a.wayne** · April 3, 2017, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

It was you who claimed the the bass driver size was increased:

I try to correct the false info, when I see it posted. I gave you reasons why I think this piece of info is false. We already know the bass driver size in the S3 mk 2. Now it is your turn to post your data.

Is this stirring the pot , Ok , i get it now ... ??

**a.wayne** · April 3, 2017, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

VAC

Ahhh , Tooby Power ...

**Elberoth** · April 3, 2017, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Is this stirring the pot , Ok , i get it now ... ??

I'm just trying to corect the piece of info posted that I believe is incorrect and I'm doing it in a civilised manner.

Please note, that the person who posted the info is able to bail out just by posting a simple image of a ruler sticked across the woofer (if he still thinks, he is correct).

Instead, he had chosen to start calling names.

**pessoa00** · April 3, 2017, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

VAC

I get a sense that you don't feel overly enthusiastic with the soulution 511 with the S3. I'm about to order one, but am having 2nd thoughts about such a big investment without hearing it 1st. Unfortunately, my dealer doesn't have it in stock for me to try.

**kzhtoo** · April 3, 2017, 07:12 PM

I will measure my S3 mk1 when I get home tonight. What do you need me measure, Adam?

**Mike** · April 3, 2017, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by pessoa00

I get a sense that you don't feel overly enthusiastic with the soulution 511 with the S3. I'm about to order one, but am having 2nd thoughts about such a big investment without hearing it 1st. Unfortunately, my dealer doesn't have it in stock for me to try.

I'm delighted with the Soulution amps, but they're sold. I don't think the new owner would want me using them for the demo. They'll probably ship off Wednesday.

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**a.wayne** · April 3, 2017, 07:33 PM

Mike , You should request for Kevin to lug over their biggest Pr of Mono's for the demo..

**Mike** · April 3, 2017, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Mike , You should request for Kevin to lug over their biggest Pr of Mono's for the demo..

The sig 200iQ's are awesome. No need for any more.

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**kzhtoo** · April 3, 2017, 11:45 PM

This is for S3 mk1.

**Elberoth** · April 4, 2017, 01:50 AM

Thank you kzhtoo. That confirms that both the old and new S3 indeed use the outstanding ScanSpeak Revelator 22W/8857T-00 bass driver as the base for their woofers (obviously, with further modifications):

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...aluminum-cone/

I was not aware of the fact that Magico had corrected the speaker's paper specs (so thank you for bringing that up). As I already mentioned - the drive unit they use is 222 millimeters in size, which translates to 8.74015748 inches. They used to call it 8 inch (which is how Scan Speak calls them), but in fact it is closer to 9 inch, so now they chose to call it 9 inch.

Call it 8" or 9" - doesn't really matter. It is still a state-of-the-art woofer design.

I can only speculate, that 9" sells better than 8"

**kzhtoo** · April 4, 2017, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

I believe the size of the S3 mk 1 and S3 mk 2 woofers is identical. Macico has just corrected the specs. The drive unit they use is 222 millimeters in size, which translates to 8.74015748 inches. They used to call it 8 inch (which is how Scan Speak calls them), but in fact it is closer to 9 inch, so they now call it 9 inch (probably sells better).

Originally Posted by GSOphile

I agree. I just measured my new S3 Mk II.

Based on what GSOphile said in post #137, Adam is right. I also just re-measured the woofer from outer edge to other outer edge and it's 222mm.

So, no woofer size increase from mk1 to mk2? Interesting. It may not be such a big deal to most, but for people who's considering the upgrade to mk2, I'm sure they'd like this info.

**Kuoppis** · April 4, 2017, 02:25 AM

This is interesting.

I do not have access to anything further than published specs, so as a starting point I am inclined to trust those. 8" is actually 20.32 cm (which is exactly what Magico claims the mk1 woofer to be), while 9" equals to 22.86 cm. Begs the question how this is measured.

Has Magico been indicating anywhere which woofer they use in the Mk1 or why do you think that this particular Scan Speak is the one (Scan Speak is known to be a Magico supplier)? Based on a cursory review of some reviews I did not find any details on the actual woofer model just 'Hybrid Nano-Tec/aluminum Woofer'.

I'm still a bit reluctant to think that Magico just adds 2.54 cm to the specs, if it is the same product. No offense, but I would not call the measurement convention used in this thread exactly scientific

(yet).

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**Kuoppis** · April 4, 2017, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

So, no woofer size increase from mk1 to mk2? Interesting. It may not be such a big deal to most, but for people who's considering the upgrade to mk2, I'm sure they'd like this info.

Exactly my thinking.

If the woofer has the same mounting dimensions (and I think we're a bit in the fact finding phase still), so why no upgrade path for the S3 mk1?

With the mk2 costing 6-7K more due to new parts etc., I am sure many current owners would be happy to pay the difference and a bit more for an upgrade. That would also completely change the story about sustainability of investing in Magico sound - very much to the company's advantage.

I am also sure new buyers seeing the value of a Magico purchase drop +50% in value (or about 15K in Europe) within three years will also think twice whether to buy Magico or not. This is especially as the S3 is expensive, but not super expensive as some other models, and hence 'cost no object' does not really apply here.

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**Elberoth** · April 4, 2017, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

It may not be such a big deal to most, but for people who's considering the upgrade to mk2, I'm sure they'd like this info.

I would imagine that the vast majority of ppl who are conteplating the upgrade would rather do it it because of the new graphene reinforced midrange driver and the new diamond coated Be tweeter (plus the concave top for better looks).

Those are the exact changes that the Magico S1 went through and the difference in SQ was nothing short of phenomenal. I have never developed a liking for the S1 mk 1, but the S1 mk 2 was just WOW.

If the new graphene reinforced diapragms add something more to the mix as a.wayne suggests - well, then all the better and kudos to Magico team for constantly pushing the envelope.

**a.wayne** · April 4, 2017, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

This is for S3 mk1.

Measure from the outer edge of the surround to the next outer edge , not the basket , this is the cone size... typically an 8 inch woofer will measure 7 inches..

**a.wayne** · April 4, 2017, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Thank you kzhtoo. That confirms that both the old and new S3 indeed use the outstanding ScanSpeak Revelator 22W/8857T-00 bass driver as the base for their woofers (obviously, with further modifications):

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...aluminum-cone/

I was not aware of the fact that Magico had corrected the speaker's paper specs (so thank you for bringing that up). As I already mentioned - the drive unit they use is 222 millimeters in size, which translates to 8.74015748 inches. They used to call it 8 inch (which is how Scan Speak calls them), but in fact it is closer to 9 inch, so now they chose to call it 9 inch.

Call it 8" or 9" - doesn't really matter. It is still a state-of-the-art woofer design.

I can only speculate, that 9" sells better than 8"

IME, I doubt that's the woofer model Magico is using , not with such a low QTS value anyway .......

**LVB** · April 4, 2017, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

This is interesting....

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So after all the name calling are you suggesting you were wrong? Again??
You should chill out a bit, you are taking over these threads and deluding the value of reading them. You insist in regurgitating “fake data” that you somehow chose to believe in, even though your mistakes were pointed out to you time and again.
This should be fun, not a constant ego run, take a breather and contemplate changing your approach from a talker to a listener

**Kuoppis** · April 4, 2017, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by LVB

...are you suggesting you were wrong?

Absolutely not. That would take more than a tape measure. So far we just have opinions, no real evidence or knowledge.

But as said, it's interesting - and someone calling the data on a manufacturers website or in a press release fake data is admittedly kind of funny.

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**Elberoth** · April 4, 2017, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Measure from the outer edge of the surround to the next outer edge , not the basket , this is the cone size... typically an 8 inch woofer will measure 7 inches..

We were not measuring the cone size (which I said before is ~7 inch), but the exact basket size only to confirm it is based on ScanSpeak Revelator 22W/8857T-00 bass driver. Both the basket size, alu diaphragm, the holes pattern and holes undercuts are unique to this model.

**Elberoth** · April 4, 2017, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

IME, I doubt that's the woofer model Magico is using , not with such a low QTS value anyway .......

Noone here claims otherwise. Magico uses a modified version of that driver. From the outside, the S3 mk 1 bass driver looks identical (basket, surround and aluminium diaphragm) with the only visible exception beeing that nanotube reinforced dustcap, but there are things like suspension, voice coil and motor structure which might have been modified to achive certain parameters. The S3 mk 2 bass driver adds a graphene reinforced diaphragm to the mix.

Some 20 years ago, I have asked Lars Goller - at the time the head of engineering team at Scan Speak - to make me a custom pair of 18W/8546 7" midwoofers (18W/8545 only with Kevlar cone) for my car audio system, with a shorter voice coil. They looked exactly the same as standard model, but had 91dB sensitivity (up from standard 88dB) and 4 Ohm impedance (down from standard 8 Ohm) - which better suited my car audio project (they were powered by dual Audison Sedici HV poweramps and were crossed over to Scan Speak D2004 tweeters). The only visible difference was the 'LAB' text printed on the model label, where the model # is usually placed.

I'm only telling this story for people to understand, that even if the drive unit looks exactly like the standard unit, there are certain mods that you can make that remain hidden. Obviously, Magico drive units are modified beyond that and are also visibly different.

**GSOphile** · April 4, 2017, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

We were not measuring the cone size (which I said before is ~7 inch), but the exact basket size only to confirm it is based on ScanSpeak Revelator 22W/8857T-00 bass driver. Both the basket size, alu diaphragm, the holes pattern and holes undercuts are unique to this model.

The hole pattern on the S3 bass driver (7 holes) and the S3 Mk II's (6 holes) are different.

**Elberoth** · April 4, 2017, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by GSOphile

The hole pattern on the S3 bass driver (7 holes) and the S3 Mk II's (6 holes) are different.

Ha ! The plot thickens !

I just realised I was looking at the S3 mk 1 bass driver all the time (which is 100% ScanSpeak Revelator 22W/8857T-00 based design).

Indeed, the S3 mk 2 bass driver has different hole pattern, different hole undercuts plus the Magico logo at the bottom (which looks to be part of the casting):

So this time around they must have ordered a custom basket as well. I'm surprised, as this is an expensive part to make (the casting mold costs $$$). I would like to learn what was their rationale behind this, with the amount of different basket designs available from various suppliers.

**LVB** · April 4, 2017, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Ha ! The plot thickens !

I just realised I was looking at the S3 mk 1 bass driver all the time (which is 100% ScanSpeak Revelator 22W/8857T-00 based design).

Indeed, the S3 mk 2 bass driver has different hole pattern, different hole undercuts plus the Magico logo at the bottom (which looks to be part of the casting):

So this time around they must have ordered a custom basket as well. I'm surprised, as this is an expensive part to make (the casting mold costs $$$). I would like to learn what was their rationale behind this, with the amount of different basket designs available from various suppliers.

Sorry, but this driver does not have a dust cap, which means it is most likely built on a different platform. If you read the S3 PR you will also notice that this driver has a 5” VC. No SS driver has such spec. Looks closer to the Q5 bass driver if I have to guess, and if that is the case, it is indeed a big upgrade.

**a.wayne** · April 4, 2017, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

We were not measuring the cone size (which I said before is ~7 inch), but the exact basket size only to confirm it is based on ScanSpeak Revelator 22W/8857T-00 bass driver. Both the basket size, alu diaphragm, the holes pattern and holes undercuts are unique to this model.

Basket size means naught, the designation 7/8/9 inch is in relation to cone size not basket .....

**Elberoth** · April 4, 2017, 06:14 PM

Then it must be a Morel bass driver.

**a.wayne** · April 4, 2017, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Ha ! The plot thickens !

I just realised I was looking at the S3 mk 1 bass driver all the time (which is 100% ScanSpeak Revelator 22W/8857T-00 based design).

Indeed, the S3 mk 2 bass driver has different hole pattern, different hole undercuts plus the Magico logo at the bottom (which looks to be part of the casting):

So this time around they must have ordered a custom basket as well. I'm surprised, as this is an expensive part to make (the casting mold costs $$$). I would like to learn what was their rationale behind this, with the amount of different basket designs available from various suppliers.

Well you got Scan Speak to build custom one off woofers with only a run of 2 ,usually a run of 50-100 is common on custom stuff , so if i ever wanted custom baskets you would be my go to guy on this, you should mention this to Alon, prolly save him a few bucks .....

**Elberoth** · April 4, 2017, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Basket size means naught, the designation 7/8/9 inch is in relation to cone size not basket .....

True. But we only wanted to confirm that the bass driver used was indeed the Scan Speak unit, and for that we needed to determine the exact basket size.

**Elberoth** · April 4, 2017, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Well you got Scan Speak to build custom one off woofers with only a run of 2 ,usually a run of 50-100 is common on custom stuff , so if i ever wanted custom baskets you would be my go to guy on this, we should mention this to Alon, save him a few bucks .....

Scan Speak can bild you a number of prototypes, but after the design is finalised you need to oreder at least 100 pairs if memory serves me right. But since Scan Speak distributor is a close friend of mine ... he got me that done without the need to buy 100+ units

And BTW - a different basket design would certainly require much longer runs than 100 units. MUCH longer.

**Elberoth** · April 4, 2017, 06:41 PM

Here is the pic from CES 2010 where they showed Magico Q5 for the first time:

The bass driver used seems to be the Morel TiCW 1058Ft based woofer (the cone is obviously different):

Morel happen to have 9" version of that drive unit (Morel TiCW 958Ft), that just like Scan Speak unit is ... 222mm in size, but has 6 bolts hole pattern AND has 5" voice coil.

https://willys-hifi.com/collections/...w-958ft-woofer

That one fits perfectly

**LVB** · April 4, 2017, 07:31 PM

So Q5 drivers in the new S3? That is impressive. Anyone can comment on the Mk2 bass performance?

**Mike** · April 4, 2017, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by LVB

So Q5 drivers in the new S3? That is impressive. Anyone can comment on the Mk2 bass performance?

It's terrific! Goes low. Well defined. Good amount of ass rattling.

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**kzhtoo** · April 4, 2017, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

It's terrific! Goes low. Well defined. Good amount of ass rattling.

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Dangerous talk.

**Elberoth** · April 5, 2017, 08:25 AM

LOL ... I wonder what Dr. Sigmund Freud would have to say about this

**GSOphile** · April 5, 2017, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

LOL ... I wonder what Dr. Sigmund Freud would have to say about this

Would probably depend on the size of his bass driver!!

**a.wayne** · April 5, 2017, 10:11 AM

Measuregate , is it really over .....

**brodricj** · April 5, 2017, 10:29 AM

What would be the bigger performance leap for an S3 owner: S3 Mk2 or Q3? Bearing in mind used Q3 are slightly cheaper than new S3 Mk2

**joeinid** · April 5, 2017, 10:36 AM

Welcome to the forum, thank you for joining.

**Melbguy1** · April 5, 2017, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by LVB

So Q5 drivers in the new S3? That is impressive. Anyone can comment on the Mk2 bass performance?

Alon commented in a demo that the S5 Mk2's bass drivers have more in common with the Q-series behind the cone, something I commented on 12 months ago in my preview of the S5 Mk2.

**Melbguy1** · April 5, 2017, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by brodricj

What would be the bigger performance leap for an S3 owner: S3 Mk2 or Q3? Bearing in mind used Q3 are slightly cheaper than new S3 Mk2

I can tell you the S3 Mk2 definitely has better midrange and top end than the Q3. I can't comment on the Mk2's bass yet as the example I heard only had about 30hrs on them. Maybe Mike could chime in?

**Mike** · April 5, 2017, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Melbguy1

I can tell you the S3 Mk2 definitely has better midrange and top end than the Q3. I can't comment on the Mk2's bass yet as the example I heard only had about 30hrs on them. Maybe Mike could chime in?

Bass is very good, especially with the SPOD's installed.

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**Melbguy1** · April 5, 2017, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Bass is very good, especially with the SPOD's installed.

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Cheers Mike

. I know aural memory is a moveable feast, but how would you rate the S3 Mk's bass vs the Q3?

**Mike** · April 5, 2017, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Melbguy1

Cheers Mike

. I know aural memory is a moveable feast, but how would you rate the S3 Mk's bass vs the Q3?

Hmmm. Quality of bass (tight, defined, etc) goes to Q3. S3 mk2 has more bass and the quality performance level gets very close to the Q3 with SPOD's IMO.

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**nicoludio** · April 5, 2017, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Hmmm. Quality of bass (tight, defined, etc) goes to Q3. S3 mk2 has more bass and the quality performance level gets very close to the Q3 with SPOD's IMO.

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Thanks, Mike. Any thoughts on the relative performance wrt the highs and mids?

**Mike** · April 5, 2017, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by nicoludio

Thanks, Mike. Any thoughts on the relative performance wrt the highs and mids?

Gotta give the edge to the S3 mk2. Superb midrange performance and clarity - especially after SPOD install. New tweeter is much better too. Ditto for the midrange on the S3 mk2.

I just want to add, the S3 mk1's is still one hell of a fine speaker. I heard it at the last show and it was still kicking ass and taking names. We have lots of S3 mk1 owners here. The S3 mk2 is more evolution than revolution, but worth it if you can swing the upgrade. The driver advancements are quite good.

In contrast, I honestly think the S5 mk2 is much more "revolutionary" over the S5 mk1. Ditto for the S1.

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**brodricj** · April 6, 2017, 03:39 AM

Is there a consensus of opinion that S3Mk2 has higher pedigree than Q3?

The upgrade path options for me, from least to most expensive:

1. Put my S3 on SPOD;
2. Sell S3 and buy used Q3;
3. Sell S3 and buy new S3Mk2.

**Melbguy1** · April 6, 2017, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by brodricj

Is there a consensus of opinion that S3Mk2 has higher pedigree than Q3?

The upgrade path options for me, from least to most expensive:

1. Put my S3 on SPOD;
2. Sell S3 and buy used Q3;
3. Sell S3 and buy new S3Mk2.

Option 3. And you can always upgrade later to S Pods

.

**Elberoth** · April 6, 2017, 07:25 AM

To be honest - I have never developed a liking for the original Q series. I have always liked the old (original) M5, the Mini II bud didn't really care for the Q series. They never really sounded natural and 'right' to my ears, they were almost too articulate and too transparent. They lacked a certain warmth and body. The S series have changed all that.

I would get the S3 mk 2 over the Q3 any day of the week.

**Mike** · April 6, 2017, 07:42 AM

Option 3 vote here.

**brodricj** · April 6, 2017, 07:56 AM

OK. This has thrown a spanner in my plan. I assumed Q3 was the better performer..it becomes an expensive hobby buying a new speaker and then upgrading to another new speaker about a year later. They depreciate in value that first year by 50%.

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