Thread: Magico’s With Active Tunable Bass

Who would like to see the Magico M9’s active tunable bass trickle down to lower Magico models?

This would interest me very much. I was never able to get the appropriate amount of bass in my listening room until I brought in my Vandersteen 7 Mk2’s with 11-band bass equalization and adjustable overall gain and Q curve. This adjustability enabled me to achieve the proper bass foundation in my room with the ideal balance between bass, midrange and treble. Just wonderful cohesiveness. No going back for me now.

Ken

Bass waves are the most difficult to control in any room. I have found Magico’s to be a dream to place in any room. When we wedged the Magico S3 mk2’s into Larry’s TINY office in his condo, that was the ultimate test for me. The sound we achieved was nothing short of remarkable. They are so easy to work with in every customers home. A testament to such a well designed, linear, sealed box speaker.

Tunable bass would be fine on the Magico’s for me, but I worry that some dealers and customers could actually make things worse. I have a lot of experience with tunable bass with Avantgarde and Magico Q-Sub 15/18. With the subs, we definitely needed Peter and Yair to help. With the Avantgarde, I’ve done dozens of installs and with my own pair, had years of practice.

To be fair, I think tunable bass with four 15’s is definitely a plus, maybe even required. But tunable bass with 10.5” or smaller drivers probably isn’t required. Proper placement of the speakers and the listening chair can really achieve the proper end goal.

My two cents...

I believe this trend is inevitable with Magico, and many other speaker manufacturers will likely add the capability as well. Until you have heard a system with properly tuned bass via subwoofers or an active internal sub (like Vandersteen), you really haven't heard all that is possible. The easier manufacturers make it to properly integrate active subs into a two channel system (either separately or inside the speaker) given the many constraints most people have in their listening environments, the more satisfying the listening experience will be. There is a lot more to be done in this area in my opinion.

Originally Posted by MPW

I believe this trend is inevitable with Magico, and many other speaker manufacturers will likely add the capability as well. Until you have heard a system with properly tuned bass via subwoofers or an active internal sub (like Vandersteen), you really haven't heard all that is possible. The easier manufacturers make it to properly integrate active subs into a two channel system (either separately or inside the speaker) given the many constraints most people have in their listening environments, the more satisfying the listening experience will be. There is a lot more to be done in this area in my opinion.

I totally can see makers implementing this more and more


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Originally Posted by MPW

I believe this trend is inevitable with Magico, and many other speaker manufacturers will likely add the capability as well. Until you have heard a system with properly tuned bass via subwoofers or an active internal sub (like Vandersteen), you really haven't heard all that is possible. The easier manufacturers make it to properly integrate active subs into a two channel system (either separately or inside the speaker) given the many constraints most people have in their listening environments, the more satisfying the listening experience will be. There is a lot more to be done in this area in my opinion.

Could not agree more. I have tunable bass (freq/ level) on the Lansches and would not like to miss it anymore. It just allows to dial-in the sound exactly to your needs.


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Originally Posted by Mike

...With the subs, we definitely needed Peter and Yair to help..

Unfortunately very few owners have access to that knowledge resource. What Magico should be doing is a software that automates the Q-Sub calibration process. It's only a half-baked solution what they have now.

Originally Posted by brodricj

Unfortunately very few owners have access to that knowledge resource. What Magico should be doing is a software that automates the Q-Sub calibration process. It's only a half-baked solution what they have now.

I wouldn’t say that at all. It’s the same as the Avantgarde XD software. It’s very powerful, IF you know how to use it. But for most people, it’s way over their heads. That’s my concern with all this adjustable bass talk. We aren’t talking about turning a bass knob! Which curve would people choose? Would they know where to adjust, what Q to use at what frequency? It requires years of experience to know exactly how to dial things in. And it takes HOURS to even get a first pass at things. And all of this begins AFTER careful placement!

And those years of experience should be leveraged into a software that automates the calibration process. Like what Audyssey MultEQ Pro does. Hook it up, push a button, and leave it to do its thing. The EQ box is built into the Q-Sub already but there is no software available to automate what you now must do manually.

Originally Posted by brodricj

And those years of experience should be leveraged into a software that automates the calibration process. Like what Audyssey MultEQ Pro does. Hook it up, push a button, and leave it to do its thing. The EQ box is built into the Q-Sub already but there is no software available to automate what you now must do manually.

I’ve had experience with Audyssey and Room Perfect and others, including the automated setup of Trinnov. They aren’t perfect. At BEST they get you 80% of the way there. Manual tuning is required.

To be fair, the software for the M9 is completely custom for Magico and reportedly far beyond what we are using today for Avantgarde XD/Q-Subs, etc.

I agree Mike. In an ideal world, it seems like what brodricj is saying is great. I have yet to see/hear anything that comes close.

Someday maybe??????

Originally Posted by Mike

. With the subs, we definitely needed Peter and Yair to help.

I can confirm this. I had a very difficult room for bass. With the QSUB 15's and Magico's assistance, the bass is the smoothest I have ever heard in any set up anywhere.

Eric

I wanted to revisit this thread and shed some light on the M9’s as I learn more and more about these incredible speakers:

- The M9 does not have a power/active bass or "tunable" bass. It is a 4-way design with an active 2-way XO between the bass and the midbass (Think about the upper section as a passive 3-way). It is a low/high pass filter, i.e. , both the bass and the midbass are actively crossed. It requires 2 channels of amplification per side, and the signal is split before it reaches the amplifier.

- What you can adjust is the volume and phase (0/180).

- The 15" drivers are NOT subwoofers (although, they do go down to 18hz in-room due to an active custom transform to the driver transfer-function in the active XO) and work up to 120Hz, which significantly improves, mid-upper bass performance (Lots of moving surface).

- Typical 15" drivers in competitor speakers are either subs (can't be played above ~60Hz), or ones with low-xmax, high efficiency, that are more suitable as midbass drivers. Magico built a 15" that can do both!!

- The active crossover in the M9 is ANALOG (!!!) and does not have any software. This was a misunderstanding I had earlier and have since clarified.

- Using a powered bass, that is not actively crossed with the rest of the speakers (both low/high pass) introduces a delay to the lower section and impair the phase integration with the rest of the speaker. This is not a mitigated problem, Magico will not use such a design (It is less critical below 60Hz – i.e. subwoofers).

I hope these points help shed some light on the technical abilities and advancements of these amazing statement speakers. I for one can not wait to hear them.



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Mike,

Thanks for the clarification on the M9’s. This changes the paradigm significantly.

Ken

So does this mean because of the possible room that a couple Magico subs might still be needed to conform to the room?

Originally Posted by Calvin

..I'm thinking of waiting on hearing the M3 Mk2 (?)

I can't imagine the M3Mk2 being a candidate for the external XO box M9 trickle-down wizardry. All I can see them doing with it is M6 type enclosure and drivers with the new gen-8 Nano-Tec cones, and maybe go an inch larger on the bass drivers similar to what they did with the S3>S3Mk2 evolution.