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Thread: MAGICO M9’s

  1. #101

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Jeff Fritz of SoundStage listened to the M9s, his report at:

    SoundStage! Global | SoundStageGlobal.com - Magico M9 Loudspeakers: No Compromises Allowed
    —Bob V.

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  2. #102
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  3. #103
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    I'm sure what I'm going to say won't be received well by some......But, seeing a speaker priced this high makes me a little sick. There is absolutely no technology or parts that would make this thing worth the money.

    Now if you have the kind of cash that this purchase takes and you want to impress people, I'm sure you could come up with something better to spend it on than these things.

    I know I'm guilty of paying more than something's worth also.........but damn!
    Last edited by MDP; July 25, 2021 at 01:53 PM.
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  4. #104
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP View Post
    I'm sure what I'm going to say won't be received well by some......But, seeing a speaker priced this high makes me a little sick. There is absolutely no technology or parts that would make this thing worth the money.

    Now if you have the kind of cash that this purchase takes and you want to impress people, I'm sure you could come up with something better to spend it on than these things.

    I know I'm guilty of paying more than something's worth also.........but damn!
    How do you know? the initial production run is sold out, I'm aware of two soon to be M9s owners and they were thrilled they made the list. They are hardly the type that need to impress anyone. So whatever your arbitrary threshold is for value you have been proven wrong.
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  5. #105

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Well, you have to always consider the costs of R&D, prototypes, failures, starting again, more R&D, customized everything which runs up costs because things are not mass produced but instead done on smaller scale, and mostly by hand (labor costs, employment taxes). Then there is marketing and distribution, along with final sales margins. And in the case of Magico, the $300k Kleppil measuring machine.

    Do you think, for example, a new RAM pickup truck could be made, from scratch, for the money that is asked for it? The high costs of R&D are spread over mass production. That won’t happen with small production manufacturing.

    Luxury items demand luxury prices, for a reason. Thanks God there are people who buy these things for the sake of all involved (i.e. they get have jobs, pay their mortgage, put a new roof on the house, pay for the kids braces — have a happy prosperous life).

    Plus, trickle down is a real benefit, take the A5 for example with the new midrange driver.

    Would you prefer a world of “average” everything, or do you enjoy that people follow their passions to create the very best of what they do? I admire those folks myself.

    I’ve been to hear the M9s, and was far more impressed than hearing the Wilson WAMMs.

    All that said, I do get what you’re saying. Crazy expensive speakers. But, better than anything I’ve heard (though my sample set is not huge.)
    —Bob V.

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    My system: Etsuro Gold cartridge , AMG v12 turntable with ‘12JT turbo’ tonearm, bespoke LFD phono cable, CS Port C3EQ, dCS Rossini, Transparent Ref MM2 & Gen5 signal cables, Shunyata SigmaNR v2, Sigma XC v2, AlphaNR v2, Venom v12 NR power cables. Shunyata Hydra Triton v3. HRS. Acoustic environment optimized by Dr. Bonnie Schnitta of SoundSense.

  6. #106
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP View Post
    I'm sure what I'm going to say won't be received well by some......But, seeing a speaker priced this high makes me a little sick. There is absolutely no technology or parts that would make this thing worth the money.

    Now if you have the kind of cash that this purchase takes and you want to impress people, I'm sure you could come up with something better to spend it on than these things.

    I know I'm guilty of paying more than something's worth also.........but damn!
    Couldn’t agree with you more Mark. I myself own a six figure system and so I cannot be exempted from spending a lot of money in stereo gear. But, when it comes to ultra pricey gear, like the Magico M9 or Wilson Wamm or…, glad there’s a market but I’m not biting.

    This argument has been discussed in other threads before. There is just no way to justify the asking price for a cabinet with 6, 7, X number of drivers at these ridiculous high 6 figures. Now, if they can sell them, good for them.
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  7. #107

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    One would think that when doing the R&D into the speaker, the manufacturer determined the best speaker cable for this speaker and is including it with the price.

  8. #108
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    So a 600k speaker gives the shop a 300k payday, lol It really is hard to wrap my head around. I appreciate how much bs people in sales have to eat, then again maybe I don’t. I’m happy there’s rich folk that can buy all the cool stuff they get sick of in a year and sell to me for peanuts, but how much R&D actually goes into these products that’s new tech? Sound reproduction is old science and a true breakthrough in high quality stereo would be to make it more affordable not less.

    Not a knock on magico specifically.
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    While not trying to justify asking prices ,


    It takes a solid year to develop a complex system like this past phase 1 and another year getting past pre production bugs for delivery , sales numbers are small so noway to offset development cost as you will never reach critical mass numbers to Justify so consider all these SOTA type endeavors as one off’s , prices will never equate or use normal marketing metrics ...


    Regards ...
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his tweeters ..!!

  10. #110

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Bovin,

    There are exotics care that are made of smaller batch than M9 that doesn't cost as much 9even M6 cost more than most luxuery cars).
    With all the respect to Magico or any other speaker manufacture (I'm an own of S3MK2) no speaker has the development and production cost of a Mercedes class S or Porsche Panamera (M9 costing as much as several of those cars).
    The same goes for lots of luxury goods that are sold today.

  11. #111
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    You have to compare audio cost and development to a new top model Rolex watch cost and development , not exotic cars ..!


    Regards


    * An Audiophile is only as old as his tweeters ..!!

  12. #112
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    You have to compare audio cost and development to a new top model Rolex watch cost and development , not exotic cars ..!


    Regards


    Not in this case, I'd say more like a Lange or a Patek.........
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  13. #113

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    You have to compare audio cost and development to a new top model Rolex watch cost and development , not exotic cars ..!


    Regards


    Why?
    "We all know real when we hear it"

  14. #114

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Lets not forget a principle of the market that applies here, “charge what the market will bear.” If Magico can sell all they can make at $750k, then some folks out there feel they are worth the $$. Well outside my price range, but lots of things are. Cost, benefit, value are something we all measure our own ways. I’m fine with that.

    The M9s are, quite simply, spectacular! I’m not in the market for such a high price speaker, so I spend no mental cycles on cost benefit analysis. Let the uber-wealthy decide what works for them.

    Maybe some lucky audiophile will pick up a pair at an estate sale where the surviving spouse sells them for what she was told they cost!
    —Bob V.

    West Coast Remote Listening Room (Portland, OR) for Rhapsody Audio (NYC) providing private auditions of: Pilium Alexander Pre & Achilles stereo amp, Alsyvox Boticcelli X, Diesis Roma, & Bayz Courante 2.0 speakers
    My system: Etsuro Gold cartridge , AMG v12 turntable with ‘12JT turbo’ tonearm, bespoke LFD phono cable, CS Port C3EQ, dCS Rossini, Transparent Ref MM2 & Gen5 signal cables, Shunyata SigmaNR v2, Sigma XC v2, AlphaNR v2, Venom v12 NR power cables. Shunyata Hydra Triton v3. HRS. Acoustic environment optimized by Dr. Bonnie Schnitta of SoundSense.

  15. #115

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    You have to compare audio cost and development to a new top model Rolex watch cost and development , not exotic cars ..!


    Regards


    Better compare would be to a Richard Mille watch (at least in technical and material complexity)

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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by steve59 View Post
    So a 600k speaker gives the shop a 300k payday, lol It really is hard to wrap my head around. I appreciate how much bs people in sales have to eat, then again maybe I don’t. I’m happy there’s rich folk that can buy all the cool stuff they get sick of in a year and sell to me for peanuts, but how much R&D actually goes into these products that’s new tech? Sound reproduction is old science and a true breakthrough in high quality stereo would be to make it more affordable not less.

    Not a knock on magico specifically.
    From various industry reports that I have received, Magico does not even give their dealers the historical industry minimum 40% margin, & no products are at 50%...
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  17. #117

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    I’ll just say this… if you have an opportunity to hear the M9s, do it. At the showroom even better.

    I’d love to go back and spend a relaxed evening listening to my own references. Maybe I can tempt Alon with a stunning bottle of wine. I’d pay to make the trip again. My exposure was too brief, and I’m not a reviewer like Jeff Fritz above. But an opportunity to really spend some time, to relax and enjoy beyond the initial OMG, that would be a treat. Yep, they’re damn expensive but they set the bar for current state-of-the-art. Their funky looks are the first thing that becomes back of mind once the music starts to play. Then you have to get your chin off the floor, and grab a towel to wipe the drool off your cheeks.

    I’m not sure Alon will approve my relating the following… he told of a very high valued fellow who was flying (via his private jet) anywhere and everywhere to hear the very best examples of speakers. When he stopped to hear the M9s he told his consigliere to stop setting up auditions and arranged on the spot to buy a pair of M9s. (Names withheld to protect the guilty.)

    So for those who diss the high prices, the real question is… if you could, would you?
    —Bob V.

    West Coast Remote Listening Room (Portland, OR) for Rhapsody Audio (NYC) providing private auditions of: Pilium Alexander Pre & Achilles stereo amp, Alsyvox Boticcelli X, Diesis Roma, & Bayz Courante 2.0 speakers
    My system: Etsuro Gold cartridge , AMG v12 turntable with ‘12JT turbo’ tonearm, bespoke LFD phono cable, CS Port C3EQ, dCS Rossini, Transparent Ref MM2 & Gen5 signal cables, Shunyata SigmaNR v2, Sigma XC v2, AlphaNR v2, Venom v12 NR power cables. Shunyata Hydra Triton v3. HRS. Acoustic environment optimized by Dr. Bonnie Schnitta of SoundSense.

  18. #118

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobvin View Post
    I’ll just say this… if you have an opportunity to hear the M9s, do it. At the showroom even better.

    I’d love to go back and spend a relaxed evening listening to my own references. Maybe I can tempt Alon with a stunning bottle of wine. I’d pay to make the trip again. My exposure was too brief, and I’m not a reviewer like Jeff Fritz above. But an opportunity to really spend some time, to relax and enjoy beyond the initial OMG, that would be a treat. Yep, they’re damn expensive but they set the bar for current state-of-the-art. Their funky looks are the first thing that becomes back of mind once the music starts to play. Then you have to get your chin off the floor, and grab a towel to wipe the drool off your cheeks.

    I’m not sure Alon will approve my relating the following… he told of a very high valued fellow who was flying (via his private jet) anywhere and everywhere to hear the very best examples of speakers. When he stopped to hear the M9s he told his consigliere to stop setting up auditions and arranged on the spot to buy a pair of M9s. (Names withheld to protect the guilty.)

    So for those who diss the high prices, the real question is… if you could, would you?
    Simple answer - no.
    my old man can spare this amount of money but wouldn't consider spending 1/100 on audio. myself, i think my red line would be somewhere between $55,000 to $65,000 on speakers, and this already feel ridiculous sum for me to spend on audio.

  19. #119
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobvin View Post
    Alright, I'm not trying to be a tease, just have a crazy day today. I will, however, say the M9s driven by the Pilium electronics ought to be considered a redefinition of what is possible in reproducing recorded music. From the first few notes it was apparent this was an exceptionally special system. Compared to what I heard of the WAMMs it was much more musical.


    I will say, however, the room I heard the WAMMs in was nothing like hearing Alon's listening room. And the WAMM were powered by Dagostino which I've heard many, many times. The Dag gear and I have never really "got" each other. Like dating that hot chick where you really wanted it to click, but you just never quite had good energy together. That is NOT going to be a problem with the Pilium gear. We get each other just fine. I am very, very, very excited and looking forward to turning people on to the Pilium electronics. I am confident once people hear it they will agree—there is something special going on for SS electronics, there is some sense of liquidity and flow that gets you closer to the music, immediately.


    Did I mention the M9s are simply F'n AMAZING. Oh what a joy it would be to be able to afford such a speaker. Everything changes after hearing those.


    Both my travelling buddy and I noticed, upon entering Alon's room, there was a real similar feel to my own room. Alon's room probably a bit more lively than my own, it is also quite a bit larger, but feel of the room very similar. Bonnie Schnitta, of SoundSense who designed my room puts a premium on not only great sound but wants to create a room that "feels" good. It was a nice bit of confirmation picking up the same gestalt in Alon's space.


    More to come...
    Bob,

    I am confused by your description of the room as being "lively". Was this the demo room at Magico? When Alon demonstrated speakers for me he commented on how the room was designed to not have reflections so he could evaluate the speaker performance directly. I do not remember what speaker model I heard but it was made with carbon fiber. I think it was the first offering.

    What I remember about the experience was how strange it was to have no reflections. It was unnerving. Distinguishing between direct sounds and reflections is part of our evolution and survival.

    Perhaps the listening room can be reconfigured by moving panels in and out.

  20. #120
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzie View Post
    Bob,

    I am confused by your description of the room as being "lively". Was this the demo room at Magico? When Alon demonstrated speakers for me he commented on how the room was designed to not have reflections so he could evaluate the speaker performance directly. I do not remember what speaker model I heard but it was made with carbon fiber. I think it was the first offering.

    What I remember about the experience was how strange it was to have no reflections. It was unnerving. Distinguishing between direct sounds and reflections is part of our evolution and survival.

    Perhaps the listening room can be reconfigured by moving panels in and out.
    I have been to the Magico listening room twice, sounded quite natural, but very quiet. The room is design to have minimum room gain, not minimum or no reflections. A room designed to completely absorb reflections would be an anechoic chamber, not a place you can actually do any listening in.

  21. #121
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by exupgh12 View Post
    Simple answer - no.
    my old man can spare this amount of money but wouldn't consider spending 1/100 on audio. myself, i think my red line would be somewhere between $55,000 to $65,000 on speakers, and this already feel ridiculous sum for me to spend on audio.
    I dont get why others seem to have a problem how people spend their own cash, the price is irrelevant, the M9 is a statement product , does it make the statement or it doesn't, thats the only criteria necessary in my books ..



    Regards ...
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his tweeters ..!!

  22. #122
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    i see the m9 more or less as a m6 with integrated subs.
    it might take the sealed concept to perfect levels. would love to hear them.

  23. #123
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    i see the m9 more or less as a m6 with integrated subs.
    it might take the sealed concept to perfect levels. would love to hear them.
    Now this opens the discussion about the M9 much more than Magico pricing , the real strength here over their other models is the effortless way it goes about reproducing music, this mostly due to the tremendous Power offered by multiple amplification and the ease of low thd from large bass drivers ..

    It still offers the same limitation of a single 6” mid and 1.1” tweeter as the other models ..


    Regards
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his tweeters ..!!

  24. #124

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post

    It still offers the same limitation of a single 6” mid and 1.1” tweeter as the other models ..

    Regards
    Exactly what I thought when I first saw them. All those big drivers and a wee-little tweeter and single 6" midrange. Then the music started playing... just a big seamless wall of music. If there are limitations (of course there probably are) they were not evident to me when listening. Tinkling bells on one track, seemingly coming from a balcony over the orchestra pit, they hovered three feet over the tops of the speakers. The tweeter probably 5 or 6 feet below the sound. Amazing.
    —Bob V.

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    My system: Etsuro Gold cartridge , AMG v12 turntable with ‘12JT turbo’ tonearm, bespoke LFD phono cable, CS Port C3EQ, dCS Rossini, Transparent Ref MM2 & Gen5 signal cables, Shunyata SigmaNR v2, Sigma XC v2, AlphaNR v2, Venom v12 NR power cables. Shunyata Hydra Triton v3. HRS. Acoustic environment optimized by Dr. Bonnie Schnitta of SoundSense.

  25. #125
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    not really sure wich driver goes how low and high but it looks the 6"mid is supported by large low mid drivers.

  26. #126

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    I'm glad products like the M9 exist

    The trickle-down technology form these "flagship" speakers will be make their debut in more "accessible" products.

    I'm guessing that the new S Mark 3 or Gen 3 line , will be a showcase of many technologies that made their debut in the M9.

  27. #127
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    I'm in the camp of, "Why do people who spend money to acquire one level of luxury goods criticize those who market and those who buy a different level of luxury goods?"

    People who are happy with using their phone to tell time wonder why anyone needs a Casio G-Shock. Casio G-Shock wearers wonder why anyone needs a Tudor. Tudor wearers wonder why anyone needs a Breitling. Breitling wearers wonder why anyone needs a Rolex. "Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera."
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  28. #128
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s



    First owner of M9’s in HK. SN001/002.


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  29. #129
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    For some reason I don't think the typical M9 customers are the type to have to work overtime or pick up a couple side jobs whenever the upgrade itch comes along. Protecting that kind of money has to be a 24/7 job
    KEF Blade, Hegel h360, rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner. Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller

  30. #130
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Hong Kong. Of Course. Radar sell more Magico speakers in Hong Kong than any other market in the world. Apparently they sold 7 pairs out of only 50 M-Project speakers built.
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  31. #131
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post


    First owner of M9’s in HK. SN001/002.
    Needs some carpet.
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Needs some carpet.
    It does. But carpet isn't a "thing" in Hong Kong, Macau or China. 99.999% of residences have ceramic tiled or timber parquetry floors. I don't ever recall seeing an apartment in any of those places with carpet. And I've lived in that part of the world for quite a few years.
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    and YG Acoustics Rack 1.1 amp stands (pair)

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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    It does. But carpet isn't a "thing" in Hong Kong, Macau or China. 99.999% of residences have ceramic tiled or timber parquetry floors. I don't ever recall seeing an apartment in any of those places with carpet. And I've lived in that part of the world for quite a few years.
    Interesting. Learn something new everyday.
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  34. #134

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    It will be interesting to read ( I hope) a future interview with Mr. Wolf regarding the design of the M9.

    Specifically, the decision to go for a two tower flagship rather the 4 column super-speakers that others use in their flagships.

    I'm speculating that given the sealed cabinet plus extreme LF driver design of the M9s, adding two bass towers was a moot point.

  35. #135
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by mdp632 View Post
    It will be interesting to read ( I hope) a future interview with Mr. Wolf regarding the design of the M9.

    Specifically, the decision to go for a two tower flagship rather the 4 column super-speakers that others use in their flagships.

    I'm speculating that given the sealed cabinet plus extreme LF driver design of the M9s, adding two bass towers was a moot point.
    i think when you consider the intended customers for a WAMM or M9, you would unduly restrict the buyers with mandatory twin towers. either of those choices can be used in an elegant living space, not only in an all out dedicated hifi only room. especially the M9 can be viewed as art (much less so the WAMM), and single tower is the design ethos of Magico. it's their aesthetic approach. every model at all price points has that look and feel. their flagship needs to be the most "Magico"......Magico.

    owning twin tower speakers no doubt i realize the advantages of perfect integration and the value performance wise of the additional driver surface of twin towers. at the end of the day, there is no replacement for displacement. but i'm not a candidate for 3/4 of a million dollar speakers. so i don't have a vote.

  36. #136
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    ...

    owning twin tower speakers no doubt i realize the advantages of perfect integration and the value performance wise of the additional driver surface of twin towers. at the end of the day, there is no replacement for displacement. but i'm not a candidate for 3/4 of a million dollar speakers. so i don't have a vote.
    Apples and oranges, most of the twin tower designs, including your MM7, are full range, typically a 3-way, in one tower, and subs in the other.
    The Magico M9 (and the WAMM) are a 4-way loudspeaker. The bass drivers are doing much more than just covering the low bass. As such, not conducive to a separate enclosure. If needed, M9/WAMM owners can add as many subs as they want.

  37. #137
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry303 View Post
    Apples and oranges, most of the twin tower designs, including your MM7, are full range, typically a 3-way, in one tower, and subs in the other.
    The Magico M9 (and the WAMM) are a 4-way loudspeaker. The bass drivers are doing much more than just covering the low bass. As such, not conducive to a separate enclosure. If needed, M9/WAMM owners can add as many subs as they want.
    know ahead of time that i have much respect for both the M9 and WAMM, but that nothing is perfect. design compromises are part of any speaker.

    Henry, are you claiming that integration of (X) amount of subs to an M9 or WAMM will be 'as integrated' as my MM7's are integrated? and you would know that how?

    i don't personally know the process for adding OEM subwoofers to the M9 or WAMM; so the following is a guess as to how this might look. if i've missed it here then please set me right.

    one advantage my MM7's have over either the M9 or WAMM is lot's more driver surface in the mid-bass, and more efficient to boot than either of those so an easier load for an amp. my MM7's have '4' 11" woofers per side covering from 40hz to 250hz. that can be done since the bottom octave is covered by the active subwoofer tower. and i have zero crossover in the mid-bass which is the power range of lots of music. my passive tower cannot be used as a stand alone speaker, as it's rolled off to perfectly integrate with the sub tower. OTOH with the M9 or WAMM you are having to somehow throttle the main speaker back to avoid doubling frequencies in the bottom octave. not exactly a fully integrated ground up approach. then there is the coherent wave launch issue. the MM7's use a first order crossover and are phase and time aligned. i have my towers equa-distant from my ears.

    then there is the amplifier coherence issue. the MM7 sub towers take their signal from the speaker cable input to the passive towers, so they get the signature of the main amps into the sub input, keeping things 'of a piece'. the M9 or WAMM will typically use a different amp with the M9 or WAMM than the sub's. and the subs will not get their signal from the speaker cable terminal; it will come from an outboard crossover.

    all the added subs in the world won't solve the integration issue. would anyone notice the integration limitations of adding subs to a full range M9 or WAMM; maybe not unless they directly compared it to my MM7's.

    at the end of the day likely the integration of the M9 and WAMM and the full blown OEM sub approach is probably 'good enough' to pass muster. but.......if they started out as a twin tower speaker from the ground up no holds bared, no doubt they would be better even. and that is the point i am making. "integrated" comes by degrees. and fully means fully.

  38. #138
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    know ahead of time that i have much respect for both the M9 and WAMM, but that nothing is perfect. design compromises are part of any speaker.

    Henry, are you claiming that integration of (X) amount of subs to an M9 or WAMM will be 'as integrated' as my MM7's are integrated? and you would know that how?

    i don't personally know the process for adding OEM subwoofers to the M9 or WAMM; so the following is a guess as to how this might look. if i've missed it here then please set me right.

    one advantage my MM7's have over either the M9 or WAMM is lot's more driver surface in the mid-bass, and more efficient to boot than either of those so an easier load for an amp. my MM7's have '4' 11" woofers per side covering from 40hz to 250hz. that can be done since the bottom octave is covered by the active subwoofer tower. and i have zero crossover in the mid-bass which is the power range of lots of music. my passive tower cannot be used as a stand alone speaker, as it's rolled off to perfectly integrate with the sub tower. OTOH with the M9 or WAMM you are having to somehow throttle the main speaker back to avoid doubling frequencies in the bottom octave. not exactly a fully integrated ground up approach. then there is the coherent wave launch issue. the MM7's use a first order crossover and are phase and time aligned. i have my towers equa-distant from my ears.

    then there is the amplifier coherence issue. the MM7 sub towers take their signal from the speaker cable input to the passive towers, so they get the signature of the main amps into the sub input, keeping things 'of a piece'. the M9 or WAMM will typically use a different amp with the M9 or WAMM than the sub's. and the subs will not get their signal from the speaker cable terminal; it will come from an outboard crossover.

    all the added subs in the world won't solve the integration issue. would anyone notice the integration limitations of adding subs to a full range M9 or WAMM; maybe not unless they directly compared it to my MM7's.

    at the end of the day likely the integration of the M9 and WAMM and the full blown OEM sub approach is probably 'good enough' to pass muster. but.......if they started out as a twin tower speaker from the ground up no holds bared, no doubt they would be better even. and that is the point i am making. "integrated" comes by degrees. and fully means fully.
    That extra column of yours is just a sub, no need to make of it more than it is. The M9, from what I hear, does not even need a sub (I personally never heard a sub I liked). BTW, the 15"s on the M9 are going up into the mid 100's; you can do the math in terms of actual displacement. Add the superiority of the drivers, enclosure, and the fact that it is all actively XO (analog), I think it would be safe to say the M9 owners have not much to worry about

    I am sure your speakers are amazing, I just don't see why you would insist of showing 'superiority' when heavy hitters like Wilson and Magico are concerned. It is all good, I can't afford a Ferrari either, that does not mean that my very good MB is better, although it has more cargo space. Like you said, nothing is perfect

  39. #139
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry303 View Post
    That extra column of yours is just a sub, no need to make of it more than it is. The M9, from what I hear, does not even need a sub (I personally never heard a sub I liked). BTW, the 15"s on the M9 are going up into the mid 100's; you can do the math in terms of actual displacement. Add the superiority of the drivers, enclosure, and the fact that it is all actively XO (analog), I think it would be safe to say the M9 owners have not much to worry about
    i do not necessarily agree with any technical superiority of the M9 over my speakers, but you could be right about that and it could be the case. would even agree that most readers would agree with you about that. never been in love with a Magico system, but also never heard a mature system with Magico's......so my mind is open. as far as my sub towers as being 'just a sub' you obviously ignored the finer points of what i wrote and just made up your mind. so why bother to even engage with you?

    I am sure your speakers are amazing, I just don't see why you would insist of showing 'superiority' when heavy hitters like Wilson and Magico are concerned. It is all good, I can't afford a Ferrari either, that does not mean that my very good MB is better, although it has more cargo space. Like you said, nothing is perfect
    i was only responding to mdp632's post (below......you read that? right? or just read my response without the context of what i responded to) about the decision by Mr. Wolf to be single tower a side verses twin towers. as a twin tower owner i fully appreciate that attribute so felt qualified to chime in. the subject of twin towers is a big one for me, understand the benefits, and i have strong opinions about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdp632 View Post
    It will be interesting to read ( I hope) a future interview with Mr. Wolf regarding the design of the M9.

    Specifically, the decision to go for a two tower flagship rather the 4 column super-speakers that others use in their flagships.

    I'm speculating that given the sealed cabinet plus extreme LF driver design of the M9s, adding two bass towers was a moot point.
    as far as feelings of 'superiority', i never said that at all. the case i made was about the advantages of twin towers properly executed over single towers. i stepped through where the twin tower approach does bring much to the table.

    as far as how my speakers might stack up to the M9; i would say that the system and room and set-up person around each speaker would be a larger factor than the differences between the speakers. plunk the M9 in any old room with the typical M9 pairing solid state amp and i would likely prefer what i hear in my room to that. just my amps alone would play a big part in the differences. OTOH put the M9 in my room with my signal path and 6 months to fine tune it and likely the M9 has a higher ceiling. how much higher ceiling? i don't know but i do respect it as likely more capable. if i heard the M9 i could comment further. maybe i would not like it? or maybe i would be head over heels for it? i'm sure it's amazing. so are my MM7's. $$$'s and new and shiny are not the final arbiter. Magico Nation is not always objective.

    please view my posts here as twin tower verses single tower, and not my speakers verses the M9.

  40. #140

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    i do not necessarily agree with any technical superiority of the M9 over my speakers, but you could be right about that and it could be the case. would even agree that most readers would agree with you about that. never been in love with a Magico system, but also never heard a mature system with Magico's......so my mind is open. as far as my sub towers as being 'just a sub' you obviously ignored the finer points of what i wrote and just made up your mind. so why bother to even engage with you?



    i was only responding to mdp632's post (below......you read that? right? or just read my response without the context of what i responded to) about the decision by Mr. Wolf to be single tower a side verses twin towers. as a twin tower owner i fully appreciate that attribute so felt qualified to chime in. the subject of twin towers is a big one for me, understand the benefits, and i have strong opinions about it.



    as far as feelings of 'superiority', i never said that at all. the case i made was about the advantages of twin towers properly executed over single towers. i stepped through where the twin tower approach does bring much to the table.

    as far as how my speakers might stack up to the M9; i would say that the system and room and set-up person around each speaker would be a larger factor than the differences between the speakers. plunk the M9 in any old room with the typical M9 pairing solid state amp and i would likely prefer what i hear in my room to that. just my amps alone would play a big part in the differences. OTOH put the M9 in my room with my signal path and 6 months to fine tune it and likely the M9 has a higher ceiling. how much higher ceiling? i don't know but i do respect it as likely more capable. if i heard the M9 i could comment further. maybe i would not like it? or maybe i would be head over heels for it? i'm sure it's amazing. so are my MM7's. $$$'s and new and shiny are not the final arbiter. Magico Nation is not always objective.

    please view my posts here as twin tower verses single tower, and not my speakers verses the M9.
    You already made it all about your speakers vs. the M9.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    one advantage my MM7's have over either the M9 or WAMM is lot's more driver surface in the mid-bass, and more efficient to boot than either of those so an easier load for an amp. my MM7's have '4' 11" woofers per side covering from 40hz to 250hz. that can be done since the bottom octave is covered by the active subwoofer tower. and i have zero crossover in the mid-bass which is the power range of lots of music. my passive tower cannot be used as a stand alone speaker, as it's rolled off to perfectly integrate with the sub tower. OTOH with the M9 or WAMM you are having to somehow throttle the main speaker back to avoid doubling frequencies in the bottom octave. not exactly a fully integrated ground up approach. then there is the coherent wave launch issue. the MM7's use a first order crossover and are phase and time aligned. i have my towers equa-distant from my ears.

    then there is the amplifier coherence issue. the MM7 sub towers take their signal from the speaker cable input to the passive towers, so they get the signature of the main amps into the sub input, keeping things 'of a piece'. the M9 or WAMM will typically use a different amp with the M9 or WAMM than the sub's. and the subs will not get their signal from the speaker cable terminal; it will come from an outboard crossover.

    all the added subs in the world won't solve the integration issue. would anyone notice the integration limitations of adding subs to a full range M9 or WAMM; maybe not unless they directly compared it to my MM7's.
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  41. #141
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    An interesting video.

    Magico M9 CF monocoque - YouTube
    Speakers: Magico M3, Q3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.4
    and YG Acoustics Rack 1.1 amp stands (pair)

    On the wish list: Esoteric Grandioso D1X. Shunyata Research Everest.

  42. #142
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  43. #143
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Mike do you have that many helpers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Marty

  44. #144
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    To be clear. That is not a customer installation. It's the Radar Audio Causeway Bay show room.
    Speakers: Magico M3, Q3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.4
    and YG Acoustics Rack 1.1 amp stands (pair)

    On the wish list: Esoteric Grandioso D1X. Shunyata Research Everest.

  45. #145
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by nc42acc View Post
    Mike do you have that many helpers?
    Well, I had a crew of 11 for the MBL XTreme install.


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  46. #146
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    But did they all have Suncoast Audio backpacks? Have you had any calls on a possible M9 sale?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Well, I had a crew of 11 for the MBL XTreme install.


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  47. #147
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by nc42acc View Post
    But did they all have Suncoast Audio backpacks? Have you had any calls on a possible M9 sale?
    We prefer Dora The Explorer lunch pails.

    Yes, some calls on the M9’s.


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  48. #148
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    To be clear. That is not a customer installation. It's the Radar Audio Causeway Bay show room.
    This is not correct. This is a customer installation in Hong Kong.


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Bakoon Audio, Berkeley Audio Design, Block Audio, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Franco Serblin Loudspeakers, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Koetsu Cartridges, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  49. #149
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    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    I would think you would need a dedicated room if you were going to have a demo pair as a dealer? Does Magico have a pair set up at the factory?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    We prefer Dora The Explorer lunch pails.

    Yes, some calls on the M9’s.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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  50. #150

    Re: MAGICO M9’s

    Yes, M9 are in the Magico showroom. Easy to schedule a visit. I’d have a pair if they weren’t 1000lbs each. No easy way to scootch those down the hallway like I do now with which-ever pair I don’t have setup. A dedicated room needed for sure, not necessarily a fully acoustically treated room, but once these are in-place they won’t be moved around with ease.
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