Thread: Magico A5’s Arrive!!!!

He is talking about in room measurements - there is a pretty significant roll-off of high frequencies:
8 kHz = -5 dB
10 kHz = -7 dB
15 kHz = -10 dB
20 kHz = -14 dB



I already wrote about this:
Magico A5 Review

Yes, it was the reviewers room measurements that rolled off the treble not the speakers in fig 6, my mistake.

Roll-off is expected and good to some extent, but this appears to be a little too much.

Compare this with other Stereophile reviews and measurements - I can't remember any with roll-off like this.

E.g., one example of "normal" roll-off for three speaker models, including Magico M2:



Fig.7 Vimberg Mino, spatially averaged, 1/6-octave response in JA's listening room (red), of the Tidal Akira (blue), and of the Magico M2 (green).

Vimberg Mino loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

How many times you HAVEN'T seen a JA's sentence at the end of measurements page saying: "Overall, the XXX's measurements indicate excellent audio engineering."?

And I'm quoting myself from the other topic:

Originally Posted by Delija

Measurements could provide us some very rough picture about the sound of some speakers, if we have some experience with different speakers and the relations between their measurements and our own listening experience.

Having the described experience, I don't ever judge the quality of speakers by its measurements, but I do have some expectations about how they could sound - their basic sound signature / character.

Speaking about reviews - how shall I put it...

How many reviews have you read lately that are:
1. not saying that the product is very good or great or excellent?
2. not saying that the product which costs more than 10k is fantastic?
3. not saying that it's worth (far!) more than its price tag?

Most magazines even if they were not in the beginning - became pure marketing. 80% of pages are commercials and the rest are some reviews which again sound like a pure commercial. Just take a look at 132 pages of July edition of Stereophile, which is among better magazines

Some Hi-Fi companies invest A LOT into marketing and commercials. No need to name them.

That's why I trust only to my own ears and if I cannot, like now - I like to hear opinions of my friends that I trust or at least hear/read opinions on forums, mostly comparative (with other products) - just to get some rough picture.

Since the measurement is spatially averaged, the bump in bass and the treble roll-off is due to the room/power response. My understanding is that the high frequency roll-off is greater than what you might find with other speakers due to the pistonic nature of the tweeters and the expected directivity of a 1" tweeter.

I think, but someone more informed on the subject should correct me if I'm wrong, a less pistonic tweeter with more distortion would give out more off-axis energy by nature of the tweeter cone deforming. This seems to be visible in the Illuminator, Classic, and Discover on- and off-axis frequency response charts shown in this article about Beaming. The Illuminator is the most expensive and its off-axis response drops off fastest, while the Discovery is the cheapest and it looks like a spatially averaged frequency response would roll-off much slower and look flatter. But it would presumably perform worse.

In other words, when evaluating Stereophile measurements you probably want to look at how they match a Harmon power response graph, instead of comparing to a flat line. See figure 18 on page 23 of Audio-science in the service of Art by Floyd Toole for an illustration of this.

You can also see the difference in Stereophile's measurements by comparing their S5 MkII measurements of the spatially averaged frequency response to SoundStage!'s S5 measurements of the individual on- and off-axis frequency responses. Yes, different models but the basic issue is easily seen.

So if you wanted very good off-axis high frequency response with minimal distortion, then based on the expected directivity graph you'd maybe need to add a super-tweeter close to 0.5" in diameter or use a ~0.5" tweeter in combination with a smaller midrange at a higher crossover point. Or maybe use a different tweeter technology like AMT, ribbon, etc.

I have measured the Magico S5 MkII and M2 speakers myself and the overall frequency response measurement shows a bass bump like Stereophile, although not as large, but the direct (I guess more tightly windowed) frequency response measurement does not. Closer to what you see on Stereophile's A5 measurements figure 3 "anechoic response". In the direct measurement the bass is much flatter, although the room (probably mostly the floor) is still having some impact. There is a roll-off in the high frequencies as you go farther off-axis from the tweeter; point the tweeters directly at your ears (not the center of your head) if you want to minimize that.

Originally Posted by Delija

Roll-off is expected and good to some extent, but this appears to be a little too much.

Compare this with other Stereophile reviews and measurements - I can't remember any with roll-off like this.

[...]

Vimberg Mino loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

I think the Stereophile A5 measurements were done in Jim Austin's room, while the M2 measurements were done in John Atkinson's room. That may explain some of the difference.

Originally Posted by ICUToo

I've been waiting 13 weeks since I ordered my Magico A5s.
Is my dealer letting me down or is this normal?

What on earth would your dealer have to do with the production delays? Is he flying to Hayward to build them?

It’s normal right now and I’m sure your dealer wants you to get them just as much as you do.

The delays are quite long on everything from nearly every manufacturer. Lumin, Aurender, Shunyata and Nordost and a handful of others have managed to keep up incredible production schedules. But 95% are months behind.

Just be a little more patient. Good things will come.

Sounds like my waiting until next year to do my final upgrades is worthwhile. Of course, I am assuming at some point Magico releases a S7 Mark II speaker.

If you have concerns, you could try speaking with your dealer. They should be able to provide you with an approximate delivery estimate. Magico is selective in who they allow to carry their speakers, so I would encourage you to have a bit more trust in them.

Hi
Three years ago I waited about 16 long weeks for my S3 to arrive in Israel
Be patient, it’s worth the wait

Now that we've moved house, it does appear that speakers slightly larger than our A3's are in order. I'm going to listen at the local dealer, in the next week or so, to the A5's and the Rockport Atria II. They are priced similarly. I heard BIG Rockports there a couple of years ago when they had a Nagra demo and that system as a whole was quite stunning.

I really want to hear ProAc K6 but I think that there is one place in the country that (might) have them on the floor.

The only downside is that my local dealer's rooms are so heavily damped that they bear no resemblance to my home. But I can at least get an idea of the differences. The A3's sounded a little "boring" there but when I did an in-home demo they really came alive.

Originally Posted by Bart001

Now that we've moved house, it does appear that speakers slightly larger than our A3's are in order. I'm going to listen at the local dealer, in the next week or so, to the A5's and the Rockport Atria II. They are priced similarly. I heard BIG Rockports there a couple of years ago when they had a Nagra demo and that system as a whole was quite stunning.

I really want to hear ProAc K6 but I think that there is one place in the country that (might) have them on the floor.

The only downside is that my local dealer's rooms are so heavily damped that they bear no resemblance to my home. But I can at least get an idea of the differences. The A3's sounded a little "boring" there but when I did an in-home demo they really came alive.

What are the dimensions of the new room Bart?

30' the long way (combined kitchen and family room; kitchen at one end, speakers at the other end) x 23' wide. 9 ft ceilings. A very "open" floorplan so no chance of 'pressurizing' the room.

If I remember your last room. That's a big space change for sure. You may even think of adding dual subs?!

Good luck!

Yes quite a change. Actually it had also occurred to me to audition dual subs with the existing A3's as an alternative.

I switched from the standard SVS 1000s to the Pro version and was surprised how these small sub add to the instruments weight and soundstage performance. The SVS 3000 Micro dual driver hits pretty hard as well.

Dispense with the wait, just upgrade to M3 now.

The wait makes the arrival a real event

Have you verified they have been shipped? If not then ask why not. Also, is it possible to track an item being shipped from the U.S. to Australia?

Good luck. I have never heard the A5s, but I suspect they sound fantastic.

Originally Posted by ICUToo

..If it isn't here by Friday, I'm cancelling.

Hang in there, I'm sure the wait will be worth it. But if you do decide to cancel you can get my Q3 for a good price.

Originally Posted by ICUToo

...I also appreciate the fact that you are in the "right" country

Yeah....but....I've just had my 10th Royal Caribbean cruise cancelled because I am in the "wrong" country for that past time....kinda wish I was living in Miami.

There has been a price increase in the US since their release I'm pretty sure.

Yes US-made hi fi is expensive in the EU and UK. Exchange rates, shipping, etc.

There is a lot of weight suspended on that flimsy looking contraption. But if it can hang 1000lbs of M9 I'm sure A5 would be no problem at all.

Thx for the show pictures Bob. Surprised Magico decided on the A5s for Munich. While nice speakers, I would have expected an all out assault with their best at Munich.

It's not just A5 - M6 is also there. Maybe also something else.

Unless I’m mistaken, they rely on their local distributor to bring the speakers.

Would love to have seen M2 or M3, especially M3, my favorite. I had the M3’s at home for over a year. Just fantastic.

S7 would have also been great. You guys remember that S7 demo with SSUBS at RMAF 2015? It was mind blowing good.


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Originally Posted by Delija

It's not just A5 - M6 is also there. Maybe also something else.

Cool. With what electronics?


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Soulution Audio.

Originally Posted by Delija

Soulution Audio.

That’s an outstanding pairing. Anything new from Soulution?


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