Magico A5’s Arrive!!!!
- Thread starter Mike
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pdxaudio
New member
Can anyone recommend an amplifier for the A5s, or a whole system, digital only? Budget is less than the cost of the speakers so let’s say 20k max for a streamer, DAC and amp or an integrated system.
I would consider Gryphon Diablo with Lumin T2
Yes, you are right. Thanks for pointing that out; I was speaking of the 250 and wrote about the 350. I edited my initial post. Thanks again.X350.8 is a power amp - not integrated
You meant INT-250?
about 3 weeks ago i listened to the A5 at my local dealer (Luxman 700 Amp+Brinkmann Pre), digital source Melco, Analog source Brinkmann Bardo + luxman 500 phono
It's an awesome speaker, big on the Bass, very good mids but on the high and sound refinement, it's legs behind S MK2 series.
would recommend for someone looking for a speaker at that price point to audition the A5
It's an awesome speaker, big on the Bass, very good mids but on the high and sound refinement, it's legs behind S MK2 series.
would recommend for someone looking for a speaker at that price point to audition the A5
steve59
Member
Does anyone have anything to say about the stereophile review? That the speaker starts rolling off atn 5k? did I read that right. With an elevated bass I would expect the speaker to sound dark in all but the liveliest rooms.
- Thread Author
- #250
Steve, I see a tiny tiny dip at 5k. But it comes back up and that could be just the way it was measured?
Magico A5 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
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He is talking about in room measurements - there is a pretty significant roll-off of high frequencies:
8 kHz = -5 dB
10 kHz = -7 dB
15 kHz = -10 dB
20 kHz = -14 dB
I already wrote about this:
https://www.audioshark.org/magico-61/magico-a5-review-19823.html#post330585
8 kHz = -5 dB
10 kHz = -7 dB
15 kHz = -10 dB
20 kHz = -14 dB
I already wrote about this:
https://www.audioshark.org/magico-61/magico-a5-review-19823.html#post330585
steve59
Member
Yes, it was the reviewers room measurements that rolled off the treble not the speakers in fig 6, my mistake.
JA explained:
"I can't recall measuring an in-room response this good! The A5s' output in the top two octaves smoothly slopes down, but as I have written before, a loudspeaker that offers a flat on-axis response and well-controlled lateral dispersion does give a gently sloped-down treble in the spatially averaged room response. This is primarily due to the increased absorption of the room's furnishings and the contribution from the loudspeaker's power response. (A speaker that has a flat measured top-octave output in an in-room measurement will sound as if the highs are tilted up.)"
"I can't recall measuring an in-room response this good! The A5s' output in the top two octaves smoothly slopes down, but as I have written before, a loudspeaker that offers a flat on-axis response and well-controlled lateral dispersion does give a gently sloped-down treble in the spatially averaged room response. This is primarily due to the increased absorption of the room's furnishings and the contribution from the loudspeaker's power response. (A speaker that has a flat measured top-octave output in an in-room measurement will sound as if the highs are tilted up.)"
Re: Magico A5’s Arrive!!!!
Roll-off is expected and good to some extent, but this appears to be a little too much.
Compare this with other Stereophile reviews and measurements - I can't remember any with roll-off like this.
E.g., one example of "normal" roll-off for three speaker models, including Magico M2:
Fig.7 Vimberg Mino, spatially averaged, 1/6-octave response in JA's listening room (red), of the Tidal Akira (blue), and of the Magico M2 (green).
Vimberg Mino loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
Roll-off is expected and good to some extent, but this appears to be a little too much.
Compare this with other Stereophile reviews and measurements - I can't remember any with roll-off like this.
E.g., one example of "normal" roll-off for three speaker models, including Magico M2:
Fig.7 Vimberg Mino, spatially averaged, 1/6-octave response in JA's listening room (red), of the Tidal Akira (blue), and of the Magico M2 (green).
Vimberg Mino loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
Neither JA: "I can't recall measuring an in-room response this good!"
How many times you HAVEN'T seen a JA's sentence at the end of measurements page saying: "Overall, the XXX's measurements indicate excellent audio engineering."?
And I'm quoting myself from the other topic:
Measurements could provide us some very rough picture about the sound of some speakers, if we have some experience with different speakers and the relations between their measurements and our own listening experience.
Having the described experience, I don't ever judge the quality of speakers by its measurements, but I do have some expectations about how they could sound - their basic sound signature / character.
Speaking about reviews - how shall I put it...
How many reviews have you read lately that are:
1. not saying that the product is very good or great or excellent?
2. not saying that the product which costs more than 10k is fantastic?
3. not saying that it's worth (far!) more than its price tag?
Most magazines even if they were not in the beginning - became pure marketing. 80% of pages are commercials and the rest are some reviews which again sound like a pure commercial. Just take a look at 132 pages of July edition of Stereophile, which is among better magazines
Some Hi-Fi companies invest A LOT into marketing and commercials. No need to name them.
That's why I trust only to my own ears and if I cannot, like now - I like to hear opinions of my friends that I trust or at least hear/read opinions on forums, mostly comparative (with other products) - just to get some rough picture.
NekoAudio
New member
Since the measurement is spatially averaged, the bump in bass and the treble roll-off is due to the room/power response. My understanding is that the high frequency roll-off is greater than what you might find with other speakers due to the pistonic nature of the tweeters and the expected directivity of a 1" tweeter.
I think, but someone more informed on the subject should correct me if I'm wrong, a less pistonic tweeter with more distortion would give out more off-axis energy by nature of the tweeter cone deforming. This seems to be visible in the Illuminator, Classic, and Discover on- and off-axis frequency response charts shown in this article about Beaming. The Illuminator is the most expensive and its off-axis response drops off fastest, while the Discovery is the cheapest and it looks like a spatially averaged frequency response would roll-off much slower and look flatter. But it would presumably perform worse.
In other words, when evaluating Stereophile measurements you probably want to look at how they match a Harmon power response graph, instead of comparing to a flat line. See figure 18 on page 23 of Audio-science in the service of Art by Floyd Toole for an illustration of this.
You can also see the difference in Stereophile's measurements by comparing their S5 MkII measurements of the spatially averaged frequency response to SoundStage!'s S5 measurements of the individual on- and off-axis frequency responses. Yes, different models but the basic issue is easily seen.
So if you wanted very good off-axis high frequency response with minimal distortion, then based on the expected directivity graph you'd maybe need to add a super-tweeter close to 0.5" in diameter or use a ~0.5" tweeter in combination with a smaller midrange at a higher crossover point. Or maybe use a different tweeter technology like AMT, ribbon, etc.
I have measured the Magico S5 MkII and M2 speakers myself and the overall frequency response measurement shows a bass bump like Stereophile, although not as large, but the direct (I guess more tightly windowed) frequency response measurement does not. Closer to what you see on Stereophile's A5 measurements figure 3 "anechoic response". In the direct measurement the bass is much flatter, although the room (probably mostly the floor) is still having some impact. There is a roll-off in the high frequencies as you go farther off-axis from the tweeter; point the tweeters directly at your ears (not the center of your head) if you want to minimize that.
I think, but someone more informed on the subject should correct me if I'm wrong, a less pistonic tweeter with more distortion would give out more off-axis energy by nature of the tweeter cone deforming. This seems to be visible in the Illuminator, Classic, and Discover on- and off-axis frequency response charts shown in this article about Beaming. The Illuminator is the most expensive and its off-axis response drops off fastest, while the Discovery is the cheapest and it looks like a spatially averaged frequency response would roll-off much slower and look flatter. But it would presumably perform worse.
In other words, when evaluating Stereophile measurements you probably want to look at how they match a Harmon power response graph, instead of comparing to a flat line. See figure 18 on page 23 of Audio-science in the service of Art by Floyd Toole for an illustration of this.
You can also see the difference in Stereophile's measurements by comparing their S5 MkII measurements of the spatially averaged frequency response to SoundStage!'s S5 measurements of the individual on- and off-axis frequency responses. Yes, different models but the basic issue is easily seen.
So if you wanted very good off-axis high frequency response with minimal distortion, then based on the expected directivity graph you'd maybe need to add a super-tweeter close to 0.5" in diameter or use a ~0.5" tweeter in combination with a smaller midrange at a higher crossover point. Or maybe use a different tweeter technology like AMT, ribbon, etc.
I have measured the Magico S5 MkII and M2 speakers myself and the overall frequency response measurement shows a bass bump like Stereophile, although not as large, but the direct (I guess more tightly windowed) frequency response measurement does not. Closer to what you see on Stereophile's A5 measurements figure 3 "anechoic response". In the direct measurement the bass is much flatter, although the room (probably mostly the floor) is still having some impact. There is a roll-off in the high frequencies as you go farther off-axis from the tweeter; point the tweeters directly at your ears (not the center of your head) if you want to minimize that.
NekoAudio
New member
Re: Magico A5's Arrive!!!!
I think the Stereophile A5 measurements were done in Jim Austin's room, while the M2 measurements were done in John Atkinson's room. That may explain some of the difference.
I think the Stereophile A5 measurements were done in Jim Austin's room, while the M2 measurements were done in John Atkinson's room. That may explain some of the difference.
- Thread Author
- #260
What on earth would your dealer have to do with the production delays? Is he flying to Hayward to build them?
It’s normal right now and I’m sure your dealer wants you to get them just as much as you do.
The delays are quite long on everything from nearly every manufacturer. Lumin, Aurender, Shunyata and Nordost and a handful of others have managed to keep up incredible production schedules. But 95% are months behind.
Just be a little more patient. Good things will come.