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  1. #251
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    He is talking about in room measurements - there is a pretty significant roll-off of high frequencies:
    8 kHz = -5 dB
    10 kHz = -7 dB
    15 kHz = -10 dB
    20 kHz = -14 dB



    I already wrote about this:
    Magico A5 Review
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  2. #252
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    Yes, it was the reviewers room measurements that rolled off the treble not the speakers in fig 6, my mistake.
    KEF Blade, Hegel h360, rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner. Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller

  3. #253
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    JA explained:

    "I can't recall measuring an in-room response this good! The A5s' output in the top two octaves smoothly slopes down, but as I have written before, a loudspeaker that offers a flat on-axis response and well-controlled lateral dispersion does give a gently sloped-down treble in the spatially averaged room response. This is primarily due to the increased absorption of the room's furnishings and the contribution from the loudspeaker's power response. (A speaker that has a flat measured top-octave output in an in-room measurement will sound as if the highs are tilted up.)"

  4. #254
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    Re: Magico A5’s Arrive!!!!

    Roll-off is expected and good to some extent, but this appears to be a little too much.

    Compare this with other Stereophile reviews and measurements - I can't remember any with roll-off like this.

    E.g., one example of "normal" roll-off for three speaker models, including Magico M2:



    Fig.7 Vimberg Mino, spatially averaged, 1/6-octave response in JA's listening room (red), of the Tidal Akira (blue), and of the Magico M2 (green).

    Vimberg Mino loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
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  5. #255
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Delija View Post
    Compare this with other Stereophile reviews and measurements - I can't remember ANY with roll-off like this.
    Neither JA: "I can't recall measuring an in-room response this good!"

  6. #256
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!



    How many times you HAVEN'T seen a JA's sentence at the end of measurements page saying: "Overall, the XXX's measurements indicate excellent audio engineering."?

    And I'm quoting myself from the other topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by Delija View Post
    Measurements could provide us some very rough picture about the sound of some speakers, if we have some experience with different speakers and the relations between their measurements and our own listening experience.

    Having the described experience, I don't ever judge the quality of speakers by its measurements, but I do have some expectations about how they could sound - their basic sound signature / character.

    Speaking about reviews - how shall I put it...

    How many reviews have you read lately that are:
    1. not saying that the product is very good or great or excellent?
    2. not saying that the product which costs more than 10k is fantastic?
    3. not saying that it's worth (far!) more than its price tag?

    Most magazines even if they were not in the beginning - became pure marketing. 80% of pages are commercials and the rest are some reviews which again sound like a pure commercial. Just take a look at 132 pages of July edition of Stereophile, which is among better magazines

    Some Hi-Fi companies invest A LOT into marketing and commercials. No need to name them.

    That's why I trust only to my own ears and if I cannot, like now - I like to hear opinions of my friends that I trust or at least hear/read opinions on forums, mostly comparative (with other products) - just to get some rough picture.
    Devialet Expert 440 Pro | Dynaudio Confidence 50 | 2x SVS SB16-Ultra
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  7. #257
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    Since the measurement is spatially averaged, the bump in bass and the treble roll-off is due to the room/power response. My understanding is that the high frequency roll-off is greater than what you might find with other speakers due to the pistonic nature of the tweeters and the expected directivity of a 1" tweeter.

    I think, but someone more informed on the subject should correct me if I'm wrong, a less pistonic tweeter with more distortion would give out more off-axis energy by nature of the tweeter cone deforming. This seems to be visible in the Illuminator, Classic, and Discover on- and off-axis frequency response charts shown in this article about Beaming. The Illuminator is the most expensive and its off-axis response drops off fastest, while the Discovery is the cheapest and it looks like a spatially averaged frequency response would roll-off much slower and look flatter. But it would presumably perform worse.

    In other words, when evaluating Stereophile measurements you probably want to look at how they match a Harmon power response graph, instead of comparing to a flat line. See figure 18 on page 23 of Audio-science in the service of Art by Floyd Toole for an illustration of this.

    You can also see the difference in Stereophile's measurements by comparing their S5 MkII measurements of the spatially averaged frequency response to SoundStage!'s S5 measurements of the individual on- and off-axis frequency responses. Yes, different models but the basic issue is easily seen.

    So if you wanted very good off-axis high frequency response with minimal distortion, then based on the expected directivity graph you'd maybe need to add a super-tweeter close to 0.5" in diameter or use a ~0.5" tweeter in combination with a smaller midrange at a higher crossover point. Or maybe use a different tweeter technology like AMT, ribbon, etc.

    I have measured the Magico S5 MkII and M2 speakers myself and the overall frequency response measurement shows a bass bump like Stereophile, although not as large, but the direct (I guess more tightly windowed) frequency response measurement does not. Closer to what you see on Stereophile's A5 measurements figure 3 "anechoic response". In the direct measurement the bass is much flatter, although the room (probably mostly the floor) is still having some impact. There is a roll-off in the high frequencies as you go farther off-axis from the tweeter; point the tweeters directly at your ears (not the center of your head) if you want to minimize that.
    Neko Audio
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  8. #258
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    Re: Magico A5's Arrive!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Delija View Post
    Roll-off is expected and good to some extent, but this appears to be a little too much.

    Compare this with other Stereophile reviews and measurements - I can't remember any with roll-off like this.

    [...]

    Vimberg Mino loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
    I think the Stereophile A5 measurements were done in Jim Austin's room, while the M2 measurements were done in John Atkinson's room. That may explain some of the difference.
    Neko Audio
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  9. #259
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    I've been waiting 13 weeks since I ordered my Magico A5s.
    Is my dealer letting me down or is this normal?

  10. #260
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ICUToo View Post
    I've been waiting 13 weeks since I ordered my Magico A5s.
    Is my dealer letting me down or is this normal?
    What on earth would your dealer have to do with the production delays? Is he flying to Hayward to build them?

    Itís normal right now and Iím sure your dealer wants you to get them just as much as you do.

    The delays are quite long on everything from nearly every manufacturer. Lumin, Aurender, Shunyata and Nordost and a handful of others have managed to keep up incredible production schedules. But 95% are months behind.

    Just be a little more patient. Good things will come.
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  11. #261
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    Sounds like my waiting until next year to do my final upgrades is worthwhile. Of course, I am assuming at some point Magico releases a S7 Mark II speaker.
    Bud

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  12. #262
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    I thought perhaps the dealer was fulfilling later orders in front of mine in order to keep the money moving through Ďcos he thinks heís got me on the hook.
    No one can tell me about delays?

  13. #263
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    If you have concerns, you could try speaking with your dealer. They should be able to provide you with an approximate delivery estimate. Magico is selective in who they allow to carry their speakers, so I would encourage you to have a bit more trust in them.
    Neko Audio
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  14. #264
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    Thanks, nekoaudio. I was advised 8 weeks, then 12, still no delivery.
    I will talk to the dealer again, although if he says there is a delay, I have no choice but to believe him unless I have other data (which I donít!).
    Are you seeing long delays yourself?

  15. #265
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    Hi
    Three years ago I waited about 16 long weeks for my S3 to arrive in Israel
    Be patient, itís worth the wait
    Analogue source: Kuzma R, 4 Point 11í, ZYX Ultimate Omega GH
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    ISOL 8 Minisub Wave, main Neotech NEP 3001, all other DH labs.

  16. #266
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    Thanks, gab, Iíll hang in there

  17. #267
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    Now that we've moved house, it does appear that speakers slightly larger than our A3's are in order. I'm going to listen at the local dealer, in the next week or so, to the A5's and the Rockport Atria II. They are priced similarly. I heard BIG Rockports there a couple of years ago when they had a Nagra demo and that system as a whole was quite stunning.

    I really want to hear ProAc K6 but I think that there is one place in the country that (might) have them on the floor.

    The only downside is that my local dealer's rooms are so heavily damped that they bear no resemblance to my home. But I can at least get an idea of the differences. The A3's sounded a little "boring" there but when I did an in-home demo they really came alive.
    Sources: Naim ND555/555PS | Roon Nucleus | Naim Soltstice Special Edition turntable and phono stage
    Amplification: Naim 552/500DR
    Interconnects: Naim SuperLumina
    AC Power: Ansuz C2
    Speakers: Magico A3

  18. #268
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart001 View Post
    Now that we've moved house, it does appear that speakers slightly larger than our A3's are in order. I'm going to listen at the local dealer, in the next week or so, to the A5's and the Rockport Atria II. They are priced similarly. I heard BIG Rockports there a couple of years ago when they had a Nagra demo and that system as a whole was quite stunning.

    I really want to hear ProAc K6 but I think that there is one place in the country that (might) have them on the floor.

    The only downside is that my local dealer's rooms are so heavily damped that they bear no resemblance to my home. But I can at least get an idea of the differences. The A3's sounded a little "boring" there but when I did an in-home demo they really came alive.
    What are the dimensions of the new room Bart?
    Speakers: Magico A3 with grills, Gaia II
    Integrated: Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC
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    Roon Core: sonicTransporter i7 powered with HDPlex 200w linear PS, running Tital and Qobuz with iPad Pro

  19. #269
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    30' the long way (combined kitchen and family room; kitchen at one end, speakers at the other end) x 23' wide. 9 ft ceilings. A very "open" floorplan so no chance of 'pressurizing' the room.
    Sources: Naim ND555/555PS | Roon Nucleus | Naim Soltstice Special Edition turntable and phono stage
    Amplification: Naim 552/500DR
    Interconnects: Naim SuperLumina
    AC Power: Ansuz C2
    Speakers: Magico A3

  20. #270
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    If I remember your last room. That's a big space change for sure. You may even think of adding dual subs?!

    Good luck!
    Speakers: Magico A3 with grills, Gaia II
    Integrated: Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC
    Subs: SVS1000 Pro (2)-CD/DVD: Oppo 205 Streamer: Lumin T2
    Roon Core: sonicTransporter i7 powered with HDPlex 200w linear PS, running Tital and Qobuz with iPad Pro

  21. #271
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    Yes quite a change. Actually it had also occurred to me to audition dual subs with the existing A3's as an alternative.
    Sources: Naim ND555/555PS | Roon Nucleus | Naim Soltstice Special Edition turntable and phono stage
    Amplification: Naim 552/500DR
    Interconnects: Naim SuperLumina
    AC Power: Ansuz C2
    Speakers: Magico A3

  22. #272
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    Re: Magico A5ís Arrive!!!!

    I switched from the standard SVS 1000s to the Pro version and was surprised how these small sub add to the instruments weight and soundstage performance. The SVS 3000 Micro dual driver hits pretty hard as well.
    Speakers: Magico A3 with grills, Gaia II
    Integrated: Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC
    Subs: SVS1000 Pro (2)-CD/DVD: Oppo 205 Streamer: Lumin T2
    Roon Core: sonicTransporter i7 powered with HDPlex 200w linear PS, running Tital and Qobuz with iPad Pro

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