Thread: Broke my S5s last night.

I am embarrassed to admit this, but I broke my right Magico S5 last night. My neighbors on the side of the house next to living room moved (not because of me ). So last night I thought I would see/hear what the S5s, and the entire stereo, was capable of. While Foghat's Slow Ride was playing (not a difficult song) the volume inched up into the 70s on the pre (Pass XP-20). Okay, I have been there before. A little higher, and a little higher, and now in uncharted territory by entering the 80s. In the past, before I had separate circuits for each amp, a breaker would have tripped by this point. Not now.


Anyway, with the pre at 83, it is sounding great. The Pass amps (X600.5) are rated at 1200W into 4 ohms, and that is the Magico rating, so I'm not too concerned about the volume. While it is to loud, there is no distortion, clipping, or anything to hint there is a problem. So, just as I am thinking time to back off, the right channel goes out. My first thought was I tripped a breaker again, but the amp is still fine, so that's not it. I check all connections and they are okay. Recycle the preamp, but no help. So, I went to bed.


Today, it is still broke. Darn, it wasn't a dream. I grabbed a spare center channel speaker, hooked it up, and it works fine. It is the speaker not working. There is a little bit of sound from the woofers, and nada from the mid and tweeter. I didn't smell any burnt electrical component, but suspect I trashed the x-over.


Unfortunately, since I bought these from Mike, I don't have a warranty, but I can live with that. Monday I will contact Magico to start the repair process. Since they are just up the road from me I hope I can get them to fix it in my house. I have no problem paying extra for that if I can avoid the hassle of boxing it up, shipping it, receiving it, unboxing, and setting it up.


On the positive side, I will have a nice solar credit for July since the Pass amps, and A/C, will be off for some time. Even better, I am now listening to my HT/surround/spare stereo system. The Magicos replaced my Aerial Acoustic 7T speakers, which became my fronts in the HT. Since I bought the Magicos in April I have neglected this system, but now it is going its job quite well.

Sorry to hear the bad news Bud. Hope the speakers are not down for too long.

Sorry to hear Bud. That sucks. With Magico being so close to you - that's such a nice benefit. I'm sure they will take care of you and get you up and running in no time. I just hope you're not too gun shy next time you want to crank them.


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Oh crap, that is just terrible! I've been in that same spot "wondering if this is too much?" on many occasions but haven't yet ended with silence afterwards. Dang man.

What kind of SPL do you think were being produced?

Thanks. At least I will know not to leave the 70s anymore. That is more than loud enough.

I have now broken my Shunyata Triton and S5 by playing music to loud. The Triton breaker tripped when I had one circuit, and both amps plugged into the Triton. When I reset the breaker it started emitting a horrendous noise. If Magico's service is half as good as Shunyata's service then I will be happy.

Originally Posted by MikeCh

What kind of SPL do you think were being produced?

Didn't measure it last night, but in the past while in the high 70s it is bouncing around 110db on a Radio Shack digital SPL meter.

Sorry but how the hell does a "non-current limiting" conditioner break from too much current?? At least they took care of you.

Originally Posted by BlueFox

Didn't measure it last night, but in the past while in the high 70s it is bouncing around 110db on a Radio Shack digital SPL meter.

Heh...110 dB is pretty damn high.

Originally Posted by BlueFox

Didn't measure it last night, but in the past while in the high 70s it is bouncing around 110db on a Radio Shack digital SPL meter.

PARTY!

Originally Posted by mdkim

Sorry but how the hell does a "non-current limiting" conditioner break from too much current?? At least they took care of you.

The 20 amp breaker tripped, as it is designed. The problem was after being reset it emitted a horrible loud vibration as the amps drew more current. I just had a defective breaker. Sh!t happens.


Shunyata was great. They had UPS pick it up, fixed it in a day, Caelin emailed me the details, and included a set of spikes for it. Other than boxing it up, the whole process was a zero cost item to me.

Originally Posted by BlueFox

The 20 amp breaker tripped, as it is designed. The problem was after being reset it emitted a horrible loud vibration as the amps drew more current. I just had a defective breaker. Sh!t happens.


Shunyata was great. They had UPS pick it up, fixed it in a day, Caelin emailed me the details, and included a set of spikes for it. Other than boxing it up, the whole process was a zero cost item to me.

Don't get me wrong as I'm not slamming Shunyata...just pointing out the irony. Again, at least they took care of you.

Hi Bud,

So sorry to read this. Could it be just a blown driver and a simple swap? Fingers crossed for you. It's great that they are so close to you. Please keep us updated.

Originally Posted by joeinid

Hi Bud,

So sorry to read this. Could it be just a blown driver and a simple swap? Fingers crossed for you. It's great that they are so close to you. Please keep us updated.

+1 Please keep us updated. Hope they can help you out quick as possible.

Not being a speaker tech I don't know if it is a driver or x-over, but I would think a bad driver would make some sort of noise. Anyway, hopefully Magico will provide some troubleshooting tips. We will find out. Until then I am getting reacquainted with my other stereo. I am now a big fan of spares.

Originally Posted by BlueFox

Not being a speaker tech I don't know if it is a driver or x-over, but I would think a bad driver would make some sort of noise. Anyway, hopefully Magico will provide some troubleshooting tips. We will find out. Until then I am getting reacquainted with my other stereo. I am now a big fan of spares.

Hope you get it sorted out real quick Bud. Spares = no down time and are a good thing.

This will be a great test for Magico to see how they treat you and how quickly this gets resolved.

Originally Posted by BlueMcIntosh

+1 Please keep us updated. Hope they can help you out quick as possible.

Originally Posted by joeinid

This will be a great test for Magico to see how they treat you and how quickly this gets resolved.

Wonder if they going treat him differently since he's not an original owner. Hmmm.

If they are a good/great company, regardless of warranty status, they should be fixed quickly and professionally with zero drama. Sure there may be a fee involved, but I had one stellar manufacturer that replaced a driver in one speaker without delay and tested them in front of me. Absolutely wonderful service. If Magico comes through, Bud will be made whole and everyone will be happy.

Originally Posted by BlueMcIntosh

Wonder if they going treat him differently since he's not an original owner. Hmmm.

I have no problem with that, but I am curious how this will work out.

Originally Posted by Dpod4

Magico is helpful and supportive but if damage was due to misuse and parts need to be replaced that will be at user's cost

Yes, I am sure that will be the case and unfortunately should the driver(s) be shot the replacement cost is likely to be high.

Originally Posted by Dpod4

Magico is helpful and supportive but if damage was due to misuse and parts need to be replaced that will be at user's cost

Based on the information from the OP, playing LOUD without apparent distortion is not misuse. Hell, I would be in real trouble if that was the case

It should be under warranty as something has failed.

Know doubt we will hear soon what the problem was.

So sorry to read this.
Methinks that with very powerful amps, no matter the power rating of the speaker, one should never go higher than 70% on the preamp. Instant transients of much more than the power handling rating if the speakers will arise.

The McIntosh Power Guard circuit is very useful to avoid damaging a driver, but yet it still happens with McIntosh too.
Hope that Magico will handle this worry in a satisfying way.
Good Luck !


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Sorry to hear this, Bud. Hopefully it's just driver(s) replacement, which is generally pretty easy to do. Hopefully Magico will make quick work of this either way!

Along with everyone else Bud I hope the repair is done quickly. I got a chuckle out of the solar credit comment. Too funny!



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Too bad Bud. Hope it's corrected quickly.

How high does your XP-20 go to on the volume scale? I've been up to 92 on my XP-30 (which goes to 99).

With no sound (not distorted sound) coming from the midrange (and the tweeter) my guess, it is x-over related.

Will watch with interest as to how amicably the manufacturer resolves your product repair dilemma. You have a current generation product model that may not have a valid warranty or be outside of warranty given that the warranty was not transferable and/or expired.

Notwithstanding, your current generation S5 should be made good again any which way.

Generally, manufacturers have an obligation to make good for a period up to 10 years & in many countries have a statutory obligation to carry spare parts for this time. The reality is that in recent years, this has often not been the case. A manufacturer may elect to replace new for old depending upon circumstance, eg condition, nature of fault, age etc. Great if it is an exact replacement, eg NOS. However, if it is a generational substitution, a depreciation offset factor could be applied even if within the warranty period. Nothing worse than if your flagship is replaced with a later lesser model offer. I find this practice deplorable, but it appears to be an exercisable loophole that manufacturers are taking advantage of in many regions around the world. More often than not, the replacement offer is not actually technically superior, but it is a legal out for the manufacturer upholding their product support obligation. An example of a company that does this is Samsung.

Lifetime is not your natural lifetime. How many of you have been sold the promise that loudspeakers are a lifetime investment? How many of you have been sold the promise that their loudspeaker purchase should last a lifetime if used properly? Properly means according to manufacturers recommendations which includes within specification & regular use... I have tested this claim with loudspeakers that I own which are now greater than 10 years old. I was lucky enough to get some replacement spare parts for my surrounds prior to their exhaustion which are of the same series match to my fronts, but that's it. No more support.

The reality is that if you want your uber expensive loudspeakers to last you a lifetime especially where a lifetime is expected to be greater than 10 years, be prepared to buy and carry your own spare parts stock outside of warranty...i.e. Up to a full set of crossovers and drivers. The chances are if your manufacturer is still around then (& who knows nowadays), they may not have the replacements and/or will no longer provide repair or support. They would rather steer you into buying something new.

Given the price point of the S5s, I would expect the manufacturer to extend themselves. I hope Magico also elects to buck the trend & becomes one of those timeless companies that will continue to stand by their products irrespective of vintage.

Originally Posted by socfan12

Sorry to hear this, Bud. Hopefully it's just driver(s) replacement, which is generally pretty easy to do. Hopefully Magico will make quick work of this either way!

I'm on the side that's a driver replacement. That's not to much work to do.

But I think is better this to have everything stolen like our Friend Bob had and in the end He is a very happy camper now.
So, don't take it to hard, is only material and $$ can replace it.
You have us to sheer you up or even lend you a different pair, right Mike?

Originally Posted by madfloyd

How high does your XP-20 go to on the volume scale? I've been up to 92 on my XP-30 (which goes to 99).

I believe XP-20 volume goes up to 83.

Originally Posted by The Sandman

I believe XP-20 volume goes up to 83.

That's right. For some reason I thought it went to 100, but I just ran it up, and it stops at 83. I didn't realize I had it maxed out. Now I have to get another preamp so I can play it louder after it is fixed.

Lvb

Could you explain how you come up with the 118 db for his amp/speaker combination? I know this should be moved to a whole new thread, but it is something that I have thought about a lot recently. Just curious the equation that we can use to come up with 118 db and also what the 30.8 represents on the spec sheet. I know as a dealer I should know a lot of this but I am not familiar with how some of this works. I'll just use a rule if you want to add 3DB then double your power or add another speaker. Or obviously go to a more efficient speaker.

All the best in getting your S5's looked after. hopefully its a speedy fix.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Those S5 were most likely driven beyond their power limit. According to Magico the recommended power is 50-1200 watts. So with the pre dialed at full volume you most likely hit spikes way beyond 1200 watts. That's not too smart. I use to blow speakers when I was very young. Sorry to hear about this.

Originally Posted by BlueFox

That's right. For some reason I thought it went to 100, but I just ran it up, and it stops at 83. I didn't realize I had it maxed out. Now I have to get another preamp so I can play it louder after it is fixed.

It's not the preamp's fault. You just driven the drivers too hard which probably burnt the voice coils.

Originally Posted by audio.bill

What you have been told is basically true, what you have to be careful of is driving your power amp beyond its output capabilities and into distortion. With some pre/power amp pairings you can run the preamp at its highest volume setting and not be pushing the amp past its limits, while with other combinations a lower volume setting could do so and ultimately cause damage to your speakers. So you have to know your system well and exercise reasonable caution with the volume control. Sometimes by the time you hear your amp starting to misbehave (i.e. clipping distortion) it's too late and the damage may already be done.

Right on the money!

I bet if you pull one of the drivers out and did a continuity test with a meter it will show that the voice coil is open. Heat from over power/distortion will de-solder and cause an open circuit.

Originally Posted by Face

Peak SPL Calculator

Nice SPL calc.

Originally Posted by Audioseduction

It's not the preamp's fault. You just driven the drivers too hard which probably burnt the voice coils.

Not the preamp's fault. Preposterous. It certainly can't be my fault.

Seriously though, I assumed the preamp's volume went higher. So it never occurred to me I was at the limit. I thought there was plenty of reserve left, and I was getting ready to lower the volume when it broke. Who would calibrate their volume to go between 0 and 83? At least now I know, and I suspect it is going to be an expensive lesson.

Originally Posted by Audioseduction

I bet if you pull one of the drivers out and did a continuity test with a meter it will show that the voice coil is open. Heat from over power/distortion will de-solder and cause an open circuit.

That's going to be an expensive tweeter to replace...

I would give the other speaker a check up while you're at it too.