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  1. #201
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Some people of commented that fiber optic connections can give more sibilance than ethernet. Can anyone comment on the combination of fiber optic components that minimizes sibilance without sacrificing clarity and SQ?

  2. #202
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Different people have different preferences. Please use the Lumin web page on fibre setup as a baseline. The bad news is that you'll have to try them to find out for yourself. The good news is that it does not cost too much money (relatively).
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  3. #203
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    I am also looking for a power conditioner for Lumin X1. What would you recommend? Under the "diminishing returns" point in terms of price.

  4. #204
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    I have been using fiber optics in my X1 for a little over a month, I never felt that the sound was brilliant, so I can say that this connection is much quieter. Buy switch, cable and SFP connectors recommended by Lumin.
    Accuphase E-370 Cable de alimentación Shunyata Delta NR
    Lumin X1 Cable de alimentación Shunyata NR Venom V10
    ProAc Response D18 Cable de altavoz Bi Wiring PAD Musaeus Luminist
    Cable de interconexión XLR PAD Musaeus Luminist

  5. #205
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by chungjh View Post
    I am also looking for a power conditioner for Lumin X1. What would you recommend? Under the "diminishing returns" point in terms of price.
    I think it would make sense to know what other components you currently use in your set-up, otherwise it will be really hard to give advice at all.
    Personally i think power cords will give you a lot.
    Ultimately , you have to try in your own system so a good local dealer is really worth a lot.
    Flemming

  6. #206
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    So, I ordered a TP-Link Gigabit SFP to RJ45 Fiber Media Converter and a couple of TP-LINK Gigabit SFP modules, 1000Base-SX Multi-mode Fiber Mini GBIC Module. Along with some 7 Meter Single mode Duplex Fiber Optic Cable (9/125) - LC to LC - Yellow.

    Am I all set ?

    ozzy

  7. #207
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Unfortunately not - Multi-mode module is not compatible with single-mode fiber.
    LUMIN - Fibre Networking
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  8. #208
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Wklie,

    So, I just ordered (2) then of this one.

    TP-Link Gigabit SFP module | 1000Base-LX Single-mode Fiber Mini GBIC Module | Plug and Play | LC/UPC interface | Up to 10km distance (TL-SM311LS)

    Is this correct?

    ozzy

  9. #209
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Yes, single mode TL-SM311LS will work with your single mode fiber.

    In your previous post you said multi-mode module (that would imply TL-SM311LM) - that won't work with your single mode fiber.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  10. #210
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    wklie,

    Thank you. Do I need to remove the ethernet cable from the Lumin if I use the fiber?

    ozzy

  11. #211
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Yes, it is absolutely essential to disconnect the Ethernet cable between the X1 and the switch if you are going to use a fiber connection between X1 and the switch. Otherwise, forming a network loop will bring down your whole network.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  12. #212
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Yikes!
    Thank you. Looks like I may be able to try it tomorrow.

    ozzy

  13. #213
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Well the components arrived early so I was bale to hook everything up fairly easy.
    First impression... son of a gun the music has more depth! More to follow.

    Question:
    Do these new components need break in like other audio equipment (especially cables) do?

    ozzy

  14. #214
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    I just ordered a Uptone etherRegen.

    So please wklie, or anyone who can answer:

    Should I run from my router a 1M length of ethernet cat 8 cable to the etherRegen and then a long run out of it (7M) of fiber cable to the X1? (My preferred way BTW.)

    Or should I use from my router a 7M Cat 6 cable to the etherRegen and then a short Fiber or ethernet cable to the X1?

    Or, should I run from a TP-Link Gigabit SFP to RJ45 Fiber Media Converter a 1M of fiber cable from it to the etherRegen and then use a 7M run of ethernet cable to the Lumin X1?

    ozzy

  15. #215
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    router - unshielded CAT 6 - side B of EtherREGEN - side A of EtherREGEN with SFP module - (long) fiber - X1 SFP module

    If you are you using the EtherREGEN, remove the TP-Link FMC and unplug its wall wart power supply.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  16. #216
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Thanks wklie for the reply. Wouldn't a cat 8 cable be better than a cat 6?

    ozzy

  17. #217
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Not necessarily. Shielded cable occasionally cause some problems with some network setups, in addition to the possibility of ground loop.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  18. #218
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    wlkie,
    Thanks again.

    I hope to have the ethereRegen this Friday, if FedEx comes through.

    ozzy

  19. #219

    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    For your information, I tried using an EtherRegen with a Lumin S1, but it didn't work when set up. I was informed by VortexBox from whom I purchased this to use it the opposite way round as they stated ' Your S1 is one of the older models with a 100Mbps-only Ethernet port'. I found the EtherRegen made absolutely no difference to the sound quality so I sold it. Obviously you will be using fibre-optic so the results may be better. They do recommend to have the Ether Regen as close to the streamer as possible so it would make sense to have the fibre cable short.
    Lumin S1, Audio Sensibility S1 to X1 PSU Cable, Lumin X1 PSU, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 XLR, Trilogy Headphone H1 Headphone Amplifier, Stax SR009
    RME ADI-2 DAC FS, Audio Sensibility ADI-2 DAC FS to Lumin S1 PSU Cable, Audioquest Diamond Optical Cable, Sony UBP-X1100ES 4K BD Player, Audioquest RCA to Trilogy H1

  20. #220
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Is it a consensus that fiber is a significant upgrade compared to copper?

  21. #221
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    While I wait for the EtherRegen I am still using the TP-Link Gigabit SFP to RJ45 Fiber Media Converter.
    Previously when I placed my ear up to my speaker I have always had some residual buzz, albeit at a very low level. I have always attributed it to using tube amp(s).
    But, I just tested it again and there is absolutely no buzz what so ever! The only thing different is going from the ethernet cable to the Fiber cable.

    ozzy

  22. #222
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Peter

    You must have a good feel for fiber vs copper from all the feedbacks. Which do people like better in general?

  23. #223
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    I have the impression that from those who tried both fiber and copper, more people preferred fiber. Of course there are also users who do not like fiber. You'll have to try both to to see what you like.

    Just make sure do not connect both to the network. Forming a network loop will bring down your whole network.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  24. #224
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    I am really diggin' the fiber cable over the ethernet cable with my Lumin X1. There is so much more depth and width to the music. Plus I am hearing little subtle background instruments that were buried previously in the mix.

    I also have added a EtherRegen.

    ozzy

  25. #225
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzy View Post
    I am really diggin' the fiber cable over the ethernet cable with my Lumin X1. There is so much more depth and width to the music. Plus I am hearing little subtle background instruments that were buried previously in the mix.

    I also have added a EtherRegen.

    ozzy
    What fiber cable and switch are you using?

  26. #226
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    I am now using the Uptone EtherRegen switch before this I was using the TP-Link switch below

    TP-Link Gigabit SFP to RJ45 Fiber Media Converter | Fiber to Ethernet Converter | 10/100/1000Mbps RJ45 Port to 1000Base-SX/LX SFP Slot Supporting MiniGBIC Modules (MC220L)

    I had been using these modules

    TP-Link Gigabit SFP module | 1000Base-LX Single-mode Fiber Mini GBIC Module | Plug and Play | LC/UPC interface | Up to 10km distance (TL-SM311LS)
    Which I think are great.

    And this fiber cable

    Singlemode Duplex Fiber Optic Cable (9/125) - LC to LC - Yellow

    All of this was purchased via Amazon.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    I have just ordered a couple of the Finisar SFP FTLF1324P2BTL modules. I could swear that I read somewhere that it is a preferred module? Can anyone confirm?

    ozzy

  27. #227
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    I heard in an ER thread that a mobile router/modem pulling signal out of the air and connecting direct to the streamer sounds better than all ethernet connection. He has two ISP, one for his audio and one for the rest of the house.

  28. #228
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Interesting, can you find the posting or the item?

    ozzy

  29. #229
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    ozzy, please check our recommended Corning cable and modules from LUMIN - Fibre Networking
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  30. #230

    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    I just hooked up the fiber connection to my X1. Much quieter. Enjoying it very much.

  31. #231
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Is there an improvement in sound if the fiber switch is powered by an external LPS?

  32. #232
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by chungjh View Post
    Is there an improvement in sound if the fiber switch is powered by an external LPS?
    in theory it should make absolutely no difference -- when the signal is converted to light at the fiber switch all extraneous electrical noise is eliminated.

    in other words, transmitting the signal directly to the X1 via fiber eliminates the need for an LPS ...or, any other upstream noise mitigating device / dongle.
    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | alp-tone audio analog cables
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  33. #233
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by aKnyght View Post
    in theory it should make absolutely no difference -- when the signal is converted to light at the fiber switch all extraneous electrical noise is eliminated.

    in other words, transmitting the signal directly to the X1 via fiber eliminates the need for an LPS ...or, any other upstream noise mitigating device / dongle.
    But the LPS may affect the conversion to light itself.

  34. #234
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Erased
    Francisco.
    Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Constellation Inspiration 1.0 Estéreo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB cables / MIT Magnum MA Speakers cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC, Sigma NR V1 (3) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Entreq Olympus Infinity (4) / Entreq Eartha Olympus Infinity Cables (8) / Entreq Everest (8).


  35. #235
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by aKnyght View Post
    in theory it should make absolutely no difference -- when the signal is converted to light at the fiber switch all extraneous electrical noise is eliminated.

    in other words, transmitting the signal directly to the X1 via fiber eliminates the need for an LPS ...or, any other upstream noise mitigating device / dongle.
    Indeed, IN THEORY. Now do the test in reality, and we talk.
    Francisco.
    Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Constellation Inspiration 1.0 Estéreo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB cables / MIT Magnum MA Speakers cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC, Sigma NR V1 (3) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Entreq Olympus Infinity (4) / Entreq Eartha Olympus Infinity Cables (8) / Entreq Everest (8).


  36. #236
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by aKnyght View Post
    in theory it should make absolutely no difference -- when the signal is converted to light at the fiber switch all extraneous electrical noise is eliminated.
    There is indeed no noise transferred in the fiber, this is the basis for isolation. The remaining questions are, whether SMPS pollutes AC, whether your other analog components care about those, and if they do whether they make an audible difference to you in your setup.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  37. #237
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Wouldn’t any noise in the signal also be converted into the light stream, and then reconverted back into noise?
    Bud

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  38. #238
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Wouldn’t any noise in the signal also be converted into the light stream, and then reconverted back into noise?
    no -- only signal voltages above or below a certain + or - threshold representing the 1s and 0s are converted to light and then transmitted according to ethernet protocols which mandate error checking and correction. thus, the signal received and converted back to an electrical signal is only the intended signal ... sans the upstream noise.
    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | alp-tone audio analog cables
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  39. #239
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Eppur si muove!
    Francisco.
    Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Constellation Inspiration 1.0 Estéreo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB cables / MIT Magnum MA Speakers cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC, Sigma NR V1 (3) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Entreq Olympus Infinity (4) / Entreq Eartha Olympus Infinity Cables (8) / Entreq Everest (8).


  40. #240
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by nonesup View Post
    Eppur si muove!
    the church always seems to come down on the side of dogma ...perhaps you can explain to this galileo your faith-based beliefs on the subject -- or should we proceed directly to inquisition?

    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | alp-tone audio analog cables
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  41. #241
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    I understand your explanation about the impossibility of transmitting noise through the fiber, but nevertheless, make changes, upstream of your fiber device and tell me if they change the sound or not. Why, I have no idea but to my ears it is like that.
    Francisco.
    Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Constellation Inspiration 1.0 Estéreo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB cables / MIT Magnum MA Speakers cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC, Sigma NR V1 (3) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Entreq Olympus Infinity (4) / Entreq Eartha Olympus Infinity Cables (8) / Entreq Everest (8).


  42. #242
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by nonesup View Post
    ...make changes, upstream of your fiber device and tell me if they change the sound or not. Why, I have no idea but to my ears it is like that.
    fair enough -- to be definitive i will have to do this testing. you and peter make a valid point regarding the possibility of ancillary AC pollution.

    in my case i am skeptical of any difference as my fiber device is located in a basement closet 19 meters away from my audio system and is on a different circuit.

    however, if that SMPS does affect my audio system then i have a MUCH bigger problem... and would need ~20 LPS to replace the various SMPS located all around my house powering various devices and polluting the AC. i should also probably speak with the neighbors about their SMPS as well.

    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | alp-tone audio analog cables
    core audio designs
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  43. #243
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by nonesup View Post
    I understand your explanation about the impossibility of transmitting noise through the fiber, but nevertheless, make changes, upstream of your fiber device and tell me if they change the sound or not. Why, I have no idea but to my ears it is like that.
    From a Taiko Audio thread on another forum regarding this subject, one of the Taiko folks opines:
    "optical stops some aspects of the noise BUT every conversion from Optical to Ethernet and other way around brings other noise."

  44. #244
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    Re: Lumin X1 Fiber Optic Network Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by GSOphile View Post
    From a Taiko Audio thread on another forum regarding this subject, one of the Taiko folks opines:
    "optical stops some aspects of the noise BUT every conversion from Optical to Ethernet and other way around brings other noise."
    i would agree that electrical noise is created when the light signal is converted back to an electric signal at the destination. question is whether the amount of that noise is greater or less than that generated by other inputs such as copper ethernet or a USB receiver. to the extent that they are roughly equal then fiber would be the optimal choice as it has isolated all the upstream electrical noise.

    should the light to electric conversion create more noise, fiber would still be the optimal choice up to the point where its noise exceeds that of other electrical inputs PLUS the upstream noise that they carry.

    my thinking is that by using fiber i have done everything i can possibly do to provide a noise free signal to the receiving device (DAC, transport, etc) and at that point i am at the mercy of the designers of those devices in terms of how effectively they are able to deal with electrical noise.

    for us, there is only the trying. the rest is not our business ― TS Eliot
    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | alp-tone audio analog cables
    core audio designs
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