Lumin X1

**BlueFox** · May 12, 2018, 09:28 PM

Unfortunately, I can’t do a trade-in. I want to put my S1 in my HT stereo, and the X1 in the main stereo. But I can’t get my head around $14K for it. Plus, the new Shunyata Typhon QR is $9K, and the Magico A3 is $10K, and who knows what a future Magico center channel will cost. If I do get this stuff then I will definitely have to draw a line and say that is it. No more. LOL.

**the professor** · May 12, 2018, 10:02 PM

I understand the No More thought.

I just can't stop because all those things you just said are WORTH it.

**bmichels** · May 14, 2018, 02:21 PM

ver interested in this new LUMIN. I wonder what is it's sound signature: analog like? uber detailed ? wafrm ? dark ? ....

**Phil A** · May 14, 2018, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

I plan on being very active with upgrading people to the new X1’s. Trades always accepted.

That's always great to hear!

**wklie** · May 15, 2018, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by bmichels

ver interested in this new LUMIN. I wonder what is it's sound signature: analog like? uber detailed ? wafrm ? dark ? ....

I think the X1 sounds like an S1, but much better. It also sounds smoother than another ES9038Pro DAC from a major brand (no, I'll not say which).

**bmichels** · May 18, 2018, 06:40 PM

I understand that it is now possible to connect a USB HD or USB SSD to the back of the LUMIN for music storage. Is the sound quality as good as when the music is streamed from a NAS ?

**BlueFox** · May 18, 2018, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by bmichels

I understand that it is now possible to connect a USB HD or USB SSD to the back of the LUMIN for music storage. Is the sound quality as good as when the music is streamed from a NAS ?

The real question is does the X1 support direct attached USB as does the S1. Some have posted that NAS sounds better. I don’t know, but love my direct attached USB drive. It eliminates one expensive piece of gear, and avoids the entire Ethernet cable issue.

**wklie** · May 18, 2018, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by bmichels

I understand that it is now possible to connect a USB HD or USB SSD to the back of the LUMIN for music storage. Is the sound quality as good as when the music is streamed from a NAS ?

I remember there were posts from users reporting streaming for NAS sounding better than direct attached USB HDD. More importantly, we do not recommend playback via direct USB connection (even though that is supported on all our players including X1) - browsing flexibility will be severely limited, and browsing speed will be much slower.

The library can be placed on NAS, or any computer running the freeware MinimServer. We also have Lumin L1 product.

**BlueFox** · May 18, 2018, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by wklie

I remember there were posts from users reporting streaming for NAS sounding better than direct attached USB HDD. More importantly, we do not recommend playback via direct USB connection (even though that is supported on all our players including X1) - browsing flexibility will be severely limited, and browsing speed will be much slower.

The library can be placed on NAS, or any computer running the freeware MinimServer. We also have Lumin L1 product.

Great news. No USB attachment is most definitely a deal breaker. I could care less about browsing. I load a playlist, and sit back to listen.

Thanks. Good news on a terrible Friday.

**Mrppv** · May 19, 2018, 10:13 AM

Agree with Bud... I can't understand why a NAS would be desirable in any audio system, except for managing massive amounts of files.

**thingswelike** · May 19, 2018, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Mrppv

Agree with Bud... I can't understand why a NAS would be desirable in any audio system, except for managing massive amounts of files.

These are my main reasons. YMMV oviously.

1) Moving all unnecessary electrical equipment away from the listening room. A NAS can be in a computer room or storage cupboard, whereas USB is a little more limited. I don't mind using thumb disks when friends come over, but a full HDD with associated power supply makes me twitchy

2) RAID. You could run RAID 1 on a 2-disk system or better, RAID 5 on a 3- or 4-disk system to provide data redundancy. It took me an awful long time to rip and obtain my music collection. It's definitely backed up to the cloud and also locally.

Obviously number 2 doesn't matter if your USB drive is always just a copy of data on your computer, but now that we have 4TB drives being the cheapest cost/gigabyte, it can get unwieldy.

**bmichels** · May 19, 2018, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by BlueFox

The real question is does the X1 support direct attached USB as does the S1. Some have posted that NAS sounds better. I don’t know, but love my direct attached USB drive. It eliminates one expensive piece of gear, and avoids the entire Ethernet cable issue.

Agree with the ease of use of a thumb drive for a modest -1Tb music library ( this is what I also do with my Auralic Aries), but... how do you avoid the Ethernet cable ?? You still need the LUMIN to be connected to Internet to stream Tidal or Qobuz, and also to use the iPad app ?

**BlueFox** · May 19, 2018, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by bmichels

Agree with the ease of use of a thumb drive for a modest -1Tb music library ( this is what I also do with my Auralic Aries), but... how do you avoid the Ethernet cable ?? You still need the LUMIN to be connected to Internet to stream Tidal or Qobuz, and also to use the iPad app ?

That Ethernet cable does not carry audio files. I don’t stream anything. At least not yet.

**kzhtoo** · May 20, 2018, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by BlueFox

That Ethernet cable does not carry audio files. I don’t stream anything. At least not yet.

You should. Try MQA streaming from Tidal, even without a MQA capable DAC. If sound quality is acceptable to you, you’d have just expanded your library by ten folds.

**AJR** · May 20, 2018, 06:22 AM

+1

**jmusica** · May 21, 2018, 02:27 PM

+2

Since Tidal, it's infrequent I go back to my own collection. In fact I often think the Tidal rip sounds better than my own rip, and I was extremely careful with ripping (EAC and accurate rip, etc, all to FLAC).

**audio.bill** · May 21, 2018, 08:41 PM

Some new pictures of the X1 from my-hiend.com of the rear panel connections, new power supply, banner, brochure cover, overview, and details.

**BlueFox** · May 21, 2018, 09:27 PM

Getting me excited. I wonder how much of the firmware is related to the S1? I would hate to have to start discovering all new bugs.

**moby1977** · May 22, 2018, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by wklie

The new Lumin X1 Flagship Roon Ready Network Player inherits (almost) all the features from S1 plus many improvements:

Dual ES9038Pro
DSD512
Femto Clock
New output stage
New power supply
Optical network (in addition to copper Ethernet network)
XLR, RCA, BNC-SPDIF, USB audio output (*)

The dynamics, imaging, and tonal quality are all improved from S1.

More details to be shown in the website soon.

* Only one output is active at any time.

hello

Shall we expect the same level of improvement compared to the U1 or S1 using the digital outputs only ?
Thanks
Alex

Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk

**wklie** · May 22, 2018, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by BlueFox

Getting me excited. I wonder how much of the firmware is related to the S1? I would hate to have to start discovering all new bugs.

That's hard to quantify, while some parts are shared, there are significant new stuff. I would hate to see your expertise go to waste.

**wklie** · May 22, 2018, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by moby1977

Shall we expect the same level of improvement compared to the U1 or S1 using the digital outputs only ?

Although we expect most X1 users to utilize the analog outputs, the digital output (USB and SPDIF) is also improved due to new power supply and electronics.

**BlueFox** · May 22, 2018, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by wklie

That's hard to quantify, while some parts are shared, there are significant new stuff. I would hate to see your expertise go to waste.

Since I work for free on these issues, it would be a good (great) idea to send me an X1, and let me start debugging it.

**audio.bill** · May 22, 2018, 06:44 PM

It was previously stated that pricing on the X1 had not yet been finalized, but I see UK dealer Audio Emotion has it listed at £12,000. Note that international distributors have unique arrangements so pricing may vary in other markets.

**bmichels** · May 23, 2018, 03:33 AM

It will be interesting to know how many LUMIN users use their LUMIN as a ROON endpoint instead of using the LUMINB app. I wonder what is the advantage of using ROON. Is it for the added features ? Which sound the best (ROON or LUMIN player) ?

**AJR** · May 23, 2018, 06:54 AM

I use the Lumin player software and not Roon. I find that the Lumin player works brilliantly - allows me to access and combine into playlists in an intuitive way tracks I stream thru Tidal and tracks stored on my NAS. Having said that, I have voiced some quibbles about the lack of some functionality when it comes to adding tracks to playlists - am not sure if Roon has better functionality. For now, I am happy using the Lumin player software.

**Mike** · May 23, 2018, 07:42 AM

I’m using Roon with my Lumin. The Lumin app is superb, but Roon is a much more graphically pleasing option that’s also very fast (especially when combined with a Nucleus +)

**wklie** · May 23, 2018, 11:52 AM

Some of the features of Roon include rich metadata, DSP for room correction and EQ, upsampling, volume leveling, synchronized playback, etc.

**vinci92** · May 23, 2018, 12:42 PM

For my part, I prefer the Lumin app. In my opinion, using ROON means that the computer participates in the streaming process and that the Tidal tracks or stored high res files (on your NAS or external drive) are not directly read from the Lumin, which, and it's my personnal opinion, results in a loss of sound quality. My idea of having a streamer is to be able to overcome the limits and pollution that a computer implies.

The only thing I'm disappointed with the Lumin app (and with every streamers apps currently on the market) is the inability to use random playback function such as Tidal or Spotify original apps allow: The possibility to start a random radio from an artist or a track, allowing you to discover new artists and tracks that you don't necesserlly own in you files collection. The only way to get it is trough those original apps and airplay which gives a very disappointing sound result. With ROON, no new tracks or new artists neither: The Radio is limited to your own personal playlists/artists or your own Tidal playlists/artists.

**rrwmd** · May 23, 2018, 03:09 PM

Roon is certainly a richer graphic experience, as Mike said.

vinci92 makes a good point, though, about having to go back to using a computer--albeit perhaps a highly specialized, dedicated one like the Roon Nucleus.

What I don't like about Roon -- and the reason I mostly use the Lumin app -- is the queue. I was glad when they changed it to a "non-cosumable” queue.

But:
a) when you skip tracks it collapses all the skipped tracks, then you have to click to expand again, which to me is a bit goofy
b) it takes several actions to delete an entire album (highlight every track, then a couple of more clicks, as opposed to a simple swipe and tap on the album heading on the Lumin app)
c) you can only see about 5 tracks at a time in the Roon queue--not even an entire album at once

**rrwmd** · May 23, 2018, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by audio.bill

Some new pictures of the X1 from my-hiend.com of the rear panel connections, new power supply, banner, brochure cover, overview, and details.

Hmmm...Looks like the umbilical cable may be an “upgraded” one?? I have long wondered if there were gains to be had here.

**wklie** · May 23, 2018, 09:22 PM

X1 comes with its own umbilical DC cable of course. WestminsterLab provides an upgraded cable for it. I think a few members here may have tried to custom order / make one for their Lumin, but I don't recall reading their reports or whether they went through with it or not. Back in 2013, I think somebody custom made one using silver and claimed an improvement for the A1. Around that time we also tested a cable upgrade from another company, but it did not work normally.

I happened to talk to WestminsterLab yesterday, and they said they wanted to increase the price over the Munich price list...

**lscangus** · May 27, 2018, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by bmichels

ver interested in this new LUMIN. I wonder what is it's sound signature: analog like? uber detailed ? wafrm ? dark ? ....

It has the warmth and density from the A1 and details from the S1, with a bit more attack and more darkness.

**joeinid** · May 28, 2018, 04:32 AM

Looks like the X1 should be awesome.

**audio.bill** · May 29, 2018, 07:39 AM

Lumin X1 webpage just posted.

**Mike** · May 29, 2018, 07:44 AM

Oddly, no mention of MQA as a supported file format. I wonder if that’s due to pending certification for the X1?

**audio.bill** · May 29, 2018, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Oddly, no mention of MQA as a supported file format. I wonder if that’s due to pending certification for the X1?

Mike - After seeing your post I checked and there's no mention of MQA as a supported format for any of their other models either, but it is mentioned under APP Features. I still haven't see any confirmation of its expected availability or US pricing.

**Mike** · May 29, 2018, 08:00 AM

I love the Lumin guys, and they weren’t in business 6 months when I reviewed their first product. I’m excited to see this evolution. The optical network is a cool new feature, the power supply looks awesome and we all know their support is tops. The USB output is a bonus.

Bud won’t be happy that they removed the USB inputs.

**BlueFox** · May 29, 2018, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by wklie

I remember there were posts from users reporting streaming for NAS sounding better than direct attached USB HDD. More importantly, we do not recommend playback via direct USB connection (even though that is supported on all our players including X1) - browsing flexibility will be severely limited, and browsing speed will be much slower.

The library can be placed on NAS, or any computer running the freeware MinimServer. We also have Lumin L1 product.

Originally Posted by Mike

I love the Lumin guys, and they weren’t in business 6 months when I reviewed their first product. I’m excited to see this evolution. The optical network is a cool new feature, the power supply looks awesome and we all know their support is tops. The USB output is a bonus.

Bud won’t be happy that they removed the USB inputs.

Peter says the X1 does support USB inputs. You are right that I won't be happy, but I will save money. I will not buy a file player that does not support a direct attached hard drive.

**Jim Smith** · May 29, 2018, 12:50 PM

Does the X1 provide absolute polarity selection?

**wklie** · May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by BlueFox

Peter says the X1 does support USB inputs. You are right that I won't be happy, but I will save money. I will not buy a file player that does not support a direct attached hard drive.

It does. Please don't try to save money.

**wklie** · May 29, 2018, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

Does the X1 provide absolute polarity selection?

Yes, Lumin X1 / S1 / A1 / T1 / D1 / D2 provide an option to invert phase for analog outputs.

**Jim Smith** · May 29, 2018, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by wklie

Yes, Lumin X1 / S1 / A1 / T1 / D1 / D2 provide an option to invert phase for analog outputs.

Thanks! Is the switching available per track, by remote control, such as with iPad?

**audio.bill** · May 29, 2018, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

Thanks! Is the switching available per track, by remote control, such as with iPad?

On the LUMIN Settings page where it states "All settings accessed through the app", there is a setting to invert phase detailed as follows: "Some songs were recorded, or mastered with the phase inverted, some users may like to restore to correct phase during playback. For general use, this should be left 'Off'." Hope this answers your question!

**BlueFox** · May 29, 2018, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by wklie

It does. Please don't try to save money.

Oh no. I am getting whiplash. I looked at the rear picture, and only see one USB port. I believe the X1 will support USB digital out, so I'm not sure what is the purpose of the USB port.

**audio.bill** · May 29, 2018, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by BlueFox

Oh no. I am getting whiplash. I looked at the rear picture, and only see one USB port. I believe the X1 will support USB digital out, so I'm not sure what is the purpose of the USB port.

From the Lumin X1 webpage details under INPUT it specifies:

Optical SFP network 1000Base-T Gigabit
Ethernet RJ45 network 1000Base-T Gigabit
USB storage, flash drive, USB hard disk (Single-partition FAT32, NTFS and EXT2/3 only)

So an external USB hard disk can be connected if formatted accordingly (which Peter previously confirmed is supported on all LUMIN players including the X1, but that browsing flexibility will be limited, and browsing speed will be much slower than if you used a NAS or computer running MinimServer or their L1.) If you're currently using an external HDD attached to your S1 I believe it would operate the same way with the X1, but I'm sure Peter will correct me if needed.

**audio.bill** · May 29, 2018, 09:04 PM

I read on a European site that expected availability of the Lumin X1 is in August.

**wklie** · May 29, 2018, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by BlueFox

I looked at the rear picture, and only see one USB port. I believe the X1 will support USB digital out, so I'm not sure what is the purpose of the USB port.

The X1 USB port can either be used as a USB audio output to DAC, or a USB storage device (just like your S1 setup).

**wklie** · May 29, 2018, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

Thanks! Is the switching available per track, by remote control, such as with iPad?

The invert phase setting is controlled by the Lumin app on iPad. Once set all subsequent music playback will be affected by the setting, until the setting is changed manually again.

**BlueFox** · May 29, 2018, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by wklie

The X1 USB port can either be used as a USB audio output to DAC, or a USB storage device (just like your S1 setup).

The good news keeps coming.

However, I can't believe there is a big demand for the X1 to just use its digital out over USB to an external DAC. Other than, maybe, DAC comparison USB digital out does not seem like a useful feature for this device.

**Jack** · May 29, 2018, 11:55 PM

But expected none the less especially in that price category to compete with similar priced products.

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