Lumin and Totaldac, and important feature (missing)

**krellz** · February 26, 2016, 04:56 AM

to all owners of TOTALDAC,
I have noticed how connecting the Totaldac to Lumin S1, the first song in play returns some errors (like it was out of tune and small buzz). To return to normal simply stopping and play again.
Also one of my friends has the same annoying problem, other cases?!

another important feature (missing)
It would be very useful to know the bit rate of the tracks, (And Maybe Even Type: PCM, DSD etc ...)
May be small numbers and letters top right of the album icons or columns informative etc ...
It happens with Lumin S1 that if you accidentally send in play a song DSD128 the Totaldac returns only annoying noise! (But I don't know if the album is 128 or DSD64 DSD or PCM ??? !!!)

**Mike** · February 26, 2016, 07:57 AM

The info on the music file type (PCM or DSD) and bit rate are displayed just to the right of the album artwork (see attached).

FWIW - you're using the S1 for a purpose it truly wasn't designed for. If you want to use your TOTALDAC, a Lumin U1 is a better bet IMO.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1456487837.028903.jpg

**krellz** · February 26, 2016, 09:13 AM

yes Mike, but It would be very useful to know what kind of file and bitrate before launching the file played !

and,
you think the playback issue of the first file is to be charged to the Lumin S1 and that the new version does not have this problem?
or the problem is due to the Totaldac?

**krellz** · February 26, 2016, 09:18 AM

another example,
I have two identical albums (same LP) but one is CD quality, and another is high-resolution version,
I want to choose the CD quality, how can I decide between the two LP?!

**Mike** · February 26, 2016, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by krellz

yes Mike, but It would be very useful to know what kind of file and bitrate before launching the file played !

and,
you think the playback issue of the first file is to be charged to the Lumin S1 and that the new version does not have this problem?
or the problem is due to the Totaldac?

I've never had this problem - even going to a different DAC from my S1. My guess is the TotalDAC.

**wklie** · February 26, 2016, 10:48 AM

1. SPDIF can transmit up to DSD64 over PCM or 192kHz PCM. It cannot carry DSD128 over PCM, or 352/384kHz PCM. This is where USB Audio Class 2 connection has the advantage.

2. Although U1 does not change the above limitation, what U1 can do and S1 cannot do is to downsample DSD128 to DSD64 or 176.4kHz PCM and send the downsampled music via SPDIF. At least the music can be heard via an external DAC connected via SPDIF.

3. To enjoy a DSD128 music without downsampling, either use the S1 analogue output (XLR or RCA), or U1 together with a USB DAC.

**krellz** · February 26, 2016, 04:21 PM

yes Peter,
thanks for the useful tips,
but the totaldac is only dsd64, it's work fine on dsd64 also.... It would be very useful to know in advance the file bitrate and the typology of the file (PCM or DSD)

**Mike** · February 26, 2016, 04:24 PM

Guys - how great is it to have the participation of the wonderful folks at Lumin?

**wklie** · February 26, 2016, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by krellz

but the totaldac is only dsd64, it's work fine on dsd64 also.... It would be very useful to know in advance the file bitrate and the typology of the file (PCM or DSD)

I guess you may not have too many DSD128 music, see if you can find some computer software to identify and filter them out, or try them manually. Once identified, consider backing up and removing them from MinimServer ,or if you're using L1, remember to delete them and Empty Trash. I guess there should also be software capable of downsampling them to DSD64.

**marflao** · February 27, 2016, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by krellz

another example,
I have two identical albums (same LP) but one is CD quality, and another is high-resolution version,
I want to choose the CD quality, how can I decide between the two LP?!

Hi krellz,

guess this more a general "issue" than only Totaldac/Lumin related.

I'm not an owner of the both "just" using a Squeezebox Touch or Pi2 w/picorePlayer2.0 to my ViDac.

I too have a couple of albums in two versions (one in flac, the other in dsf). Since my SBT won't play the dsf files (but the Pi does) I helped myself that I tagged the albums correctly (I added the bitrate & sample rate behind the album name) therefore I can directly choose the version - via my app to control the music - I'd like/need to hear.

Hope that helps a bit.

**krellz** · February 27, 2016, 03:59 AM

Thanks marflao
is an empirical method, definitely homemade, but effective = I should just rewrite ALL albums to know the bit rate !!!
it is easier to have this feature in the program (where is the problem?)
which program transforms dsd128 to dsd64?

**wklie** · February 29, 2016, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by krellz

It happens with Lumin S1 that if you accidentally send in play a song DSD128 the Totaldac returns only annoying noise!

To better cope with the SPDIF limitation of not being able to transmit DSD128 over PCM, we're looking into changing the S1 firmware to skip over DSD128 when S1 is set to DoP mode. I hope this will make things easier for you.

**krellz** · February 29, 2016, 06:20 PM

many thanks for the help Peter,
but I have tried now and DSD128 not sound, at DoP to Totaldac.
I think the noise is dependent (I'm assuming) from 48kHz PCM converted to DSD (I have to do tests before).
already now with DoP (on spdif) the DSD128 not sound at all!
but I think it (if possible) useful to have the type of content files in the individual folders (perhaps I ask something that is impossible to do)

**Mike** · February 29, 2016, 06:23 PM

Lumin SPDIF can transmit up to DSD64 over PCM or 192kHz PCM. It cannot carry DSD128 over PCM, or 352/384kHz PCM.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**krellz** · February 29, 2016, 06:28 PM

yes Mike
It sure this is clear, only dsd64 and pcm at 192khz

(it would be nice to know the type of files and their speed in bits. but I can understand that for us it is easier to ask users,
behind there are notable works and already so the app is wonderful!)

**wklie** · February 29, 2016, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by krellz

I think the noise is dependent (I'm assuming) from 48kHz PCM converted to DSD (I have to do tests before).

If I remember correctly we discussed this before. I think it was concluded your DAC could not cope with DSD64+ 3.072MHz. Therefore you should not upsample 48kHz or 96kHz PCM to DSD. You can still choose to upsample 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz PCM to DSD, which results in the normal DSD64 2.822MHz.

When you hear noise from your DAC, look at the Lumin app display of the sampling rate, in the format of "current sampling rate (output sampling rate)". The front panel should also display something like "DoP<" to indicate it's upsampling PCM to DSD in DoP mode.

**delucafa** · March 9, 2016, 03:42 PM

Hi wklie (Peter Lie)

i have a setup similar to krellz one (Lumin S1 + Totaldac d1-six)

i am experiencing a big problem with Lumin S1 up-sampling features: generally I set custom up sampling to DSD (over PCM) for all 44.1hz files. I do not have any problem for FLAC files.

Troubles start with AIFF files: a tremendous noise comes out from the speakers and I am forced to deselect all the resampling flags back to default.

Could you explain this?

Is anyone else having the same problem with Lumins?

Regards and thanks
Fabio

**joeinid** · March 9, 2016, 03:54 PM

Welcome to the forum Fabio, thank you for joining.

**wklie** · March 9, 2016, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by delucafa

i am experiencing a big problem with Lumin S1 up-sampling features: generally I set custom up sampling to DSD (over PCM) for all 44.1hz files. I do not have any problem for FLAC files.

Troubles start with AIFF files: a tremendous noise comes out from the speakers and I am forced to deselect all the resampling flags back to default.

Please verify the AIFF files are indeed 44.1kHz, and check whether the Lumin analogue output generates the noise as does your DAC, then send 1 or 2 samples to us as per my message.

**essoteric** · July 9, 2016, 10:31 AM

I'm planning on replacing my MBL DAC with a TotalDAC and getting a Lumin server. However, I can't decide which one, the A1 or the UI. Which would give me better sound quality, the A1 or the U1, used as a transport/rendered?

I'd appreciate it if anyone could give me an opinion.

**joeinid** · July 9, 2016, 07:36 PM

Welcome to the forum.

The Lumin A1 is a self contained streamer requiring nothing but a NAS or external usb hard drive.

The U1 feeds a dac that you supply in the same way the other Lumin streamers operate.

**joeinid** · July 9, 2016, 07:37 PM

I have the Lumin S1 and it simply is outstanding.

**wklie** · July 9, 2016, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by essoteric

I'm planning on replacing my MBL DAC with a TotalDAC and getting a Lumin server. However, I can't decide which one, the A1 or the UI. Which would give me better sound quality, the A1 or the U1, used as a transport/rendered?

If you do not use an external DAC, consider Lumin S1 or A1. They are network players that have XLR or RCA output to your preamp, and do not require an external DAC.

If you plan to use an external DAC anyway, get a U1 transport to have support for DSD128 (if your music collection has any). With any other Lumin models, for the purpose of using it as a transport and sending it to an external DAC, you can't play DSD128.
http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...l=1#post173463

**db33** · July 19, 2016, 10:38 AM

Lumin S1 iwth a Kennath Lau PSU is do to work at top.

if you will use a Totaldac or other extern dac like Ptr write go with the U1. (ok...DSD128 is not HTE choice to go with the U1 but sure a extern dac plus U1 work beter....(nad A Aurender N10 dont play so good like a Lumin U1!!!!!!! this is important. invest $$$ in a Aurender - of courde for ME - a stupid choice ))

S1 "work" very fine, ESS inside are more as enough to give you a lot of pleasure....

U1 with a Emmlabs, Totalddac , PlaybackDesign, DCS play much better vs Aurender.
(and with a "blind test2 8 to 10 say this)

I use a S1 and i'm happy. the Kenneth laud PSI make me more pleasure......with a extern Dac I can use Meitner MA1....with a "cheap price" I have a
great dac for tracks 24/192 without invest 20k for Dcs componemnt or similar they give me max 10% quality vs a Ma1 or a second hand DAC2x.

thx

**wklie** · July 21, 2016, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by db33

A Aurender N10 dont play so good like a Lumin U1!!!!!!!

U1 with a Emmlabs, Totalddac , PlaybackDesign, DCS play much better vs Aurender.
(and with a "blind test2 8 to 10 say this)

I use a S1 and i'm happy.

I'm happy when Lumin users are happy.

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