Thread: Lumin P1 vs. X1

Originally Posted by Remi

Has anybody had the chance to compare the sound quality of both units? The reviews of the new P1 are stellar. I believe there is a $4K difference between the two. Are you chasing diminishing returns by going with the X1?

Thanks!

Hi Remi,
I've not had the opportunity to audition the Lumin X1, but I have the P1 here for review, and I am very impressed with it. The key difference between them is that the P1 is also a preamplifier, so if that something that aligns with your specific requirements, factor that into your decision-making process. If you don't need a preamp, and have the budget, then the X1 would be best-suited to your requirements.

With respect to audio quality, I find the P1 to be superb: it's very, very quiet, with superb transparency, resolution, clarity, with excellent accuracy and refinement in rendition of tone, timbre, and harmonics, precise, stable, and finely layered imaging, deep, wide and tall soundstaging, and any other attributes we care and/or obsess about.

It's also superbly designed and...engineered. Things like...having an SFP cage on the back so I can go direct in with optical fibre (NOT TOSLINK) from the music server in the remote server room without the need for a downstream FMC, power supply for FMC, Ethernet cable to connect to network bridge, USB cable to connect network bridge to DAC, etc., etc. And...I don't need power cords for the FMC and network bridge power supplies.

Moreover, it has a proper chassis ground terminal on the back so I can run a ground cable from it to my Shunyata Everest's GP-NR system. Why doesn't every manufacturer do this? Anyway, thank you, Lumin.

I've had some really great "music streamers" here of late, the Linn Klimax DSM/3, the Aurender N20, and the Lumin P1. They're all truly superb, and the two I was personally most impressed with are the Aurender N20 and the Lumin P1. If I had to choose between them, personally, I'd take the P1 because I'm already set up for optical and being able to remove...8 "devices" between the music server and the P1 is a big plus.

On the whole I am very impressed with how well-engineered, well-executed, and most importantly, how well thought-out the Lumin P1 is.

Cheers.

The X1 is definitely the Lumin signature piece, but we are LOVING the P1.


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Originally Posted by Mike

The X1 is definitely the Lumin signature piece, but we are LOVING the P1.

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Yup! Right there with 'ya, Mike!

Originally Posted by dznutz

I, personally, am waiting for Lumin to release a TOTL player at around the $20-$25k USD retail point. Thats assuming theyre actually able to improve upon the X1 substantially enough.

That would be cool. I wonder what the DAC section would look like. Hopefully something totally cool and different. Maybe R2R? Master Discrete type tech?


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Originally Posted by dznutz

I, personally, am waiting for Lumin to release a TOTL player at around the $20-$25k USD retail point. Thats assuming theyre actually able to improve upon the X1 substantially enough.

I wouldn't mind something better than the X1, however there is no reason why the next file player has to cost twice as much as the X1.

I've yet to hear a digital front end I prefer to the X1. My Audio Note DAC 4.1 LE was in the same league but limited to redbook, and had the edge as far as most natural, organic digital I've heard anywhere, but less of some other things. Pros and cons to each but technology ultimately outpaced the AN in the end.

U1 into PS Audio DSD was excellent also and did nothing "wrong" but the X1 is just a few steps up all around imo.

Agree with everything Puma and dz said about the P1 and X1.

Lots of rooms at the FL Audio Expo were playing digital front ends (Lumin nowhere in sight, which was concerning to me), and while none had the same amplification and speakers as I have at home, I'd take my fairly humble X1-centric home system over all but 3 or 4 of those rooms. I think a big part of the sound I enjoy at home is what the X1 is delivering. I'd be very impressed if Lumin can appreciably improve on the X1.

The better comparison might be the P1 against the MSB Discrete.

Originally Posted by jmusica

I've yet to hear a digital front end I prefer to the X1. My Audio Note DAC 4.1 LE was in the same league but limited to redbook, and had the edge as far as most natural, organic digital I've heard anywhere, but less of some other things. Pros and cons to each but technology ultimately outpaced the AN in the end.

U1 into PS Audio DSD was excellent also and did nothing "wrong" but the X1 is just a few steps up all around imo.

Agree with everything Puma and dz said about the P1 and X1.

Lots of rooms at the FL Audio Expo were playing digital front ends (Lumin nowhere in sight, which was concerning to me), and while none had the same amplification and speakers as I have at home, I'd take my fairly humble X1-centric home system over all but 3 or 4 of those rooms. I think a big part of the sound I enjoy at home is what the X1 is delivering. I'd be very impressed if Lumin can appreciably improve on the X1.

We hope the Lumin distributor will take a room at the show next year. I think this year he had some Covid concerns, so hopefully next year we will see a Lumin room. That would be great!


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Originally Posted by dznutz

Better comparison how so?

Firstly, the comparison request was very specific, so not sure why MSB is being brought up.

Secondly, now youre asking to compare a completely different product, with completely different hardware, software, support and ability.

All good points.

Okay, I'm going back to listening to the P1 as write this.

Go ahead, twist my arm...LOL.

Originally Posted by Devg

are folks feeding the X1 through USB or network (copper or fiber) ? Is there a big difference in SQ between them depending on the quality of source ?

Both USB and "copper" Ethernet cables can have a notable impact on sound quality, and both can pass high-source impedance leakage current (usually from switch-mode power supplies). Fiber cannot pass this leakage current, but it can pass phase noise from el cheapo clocks in the networking "signal path" in the same manner copper Ethernet or USB cables can.

Both phase noise and leakage current have an audible impact on audio quality.

Originally Posted by Devg

are folks feeding the X1 through USB or network (copper or fiber) ? Is there a big difference in SQ between them depending on the quality of source ?

I only listen to files on a hard drive, and that drive is directly connected to the back of my X1. Sounds great to me.

I stream over fiber (eg Qobuz) and have the L1 NAS connected directly via copper ethernet. I'd be hard-pressed to tell you which is playing, but I sometime feel like the direct-connect L1 sounds a little better.

The X1 is an excellent server/player. We liked it so much that my brother and I bought X1s.

Fast forward a few years, the X1 remains an excellent player. But, the competition has intensified with players like the Esoteric N-05XD and N-01XD.

Originally Posted by dznutz

There will always be different... and better. But at what price? And what difference? I have owned the N-01XD and although a great product, its more expensive and nowhere near as well integrated between the hardware and software or even supported. I should not have to use the physical front screen buttons to makes changes to the device, by navigating 3 sub menus, before I can control and operate it the way I want on my tablet. They could've simplified this by including a remote control, but they didn't. So its not such a simple comparison. Its not all about just the sonics, which always have and always will be completely subjective, the operation of a device is objective.

I agree with you in that Esoteric could have simplified the menu and setup interface. This, I find, to be a minor inconvenience since after the component is fully setup (filters, oversampling, etc.) I haven’t had a need to use the menu; I just play the music using my iPad.

Yes, the N-01XD is more $ than the X1 but in the world of high end audio, the $5-6K difference is not that significant.

Now, my apologies for changing topics here. Back to the LUMIN subject.

Originally Posted by Ritmo

I agree with you in that Esoteric could have simplified the menu and setup interface. This, I find, to be a minor inconvenience since after the component is fully setup (filters, oversampling, etc.) I haven’t had a need to use the menu; I just play the music using my iPad.

Yes, the N-01XD is more $ than the X1 but in the world of high end audio, the $5-6K difference is not that significant.

Now, my apologies for changing topics here. Back to the LUMIN subject.

I think the thing for me, Mike, is that I value how well...Lumin thinks things through, and then executes at a very high level. These guys have just got it goin' on.

Honestly, I could have the Lumin P1 and a Constellation integrated amp or power amp as the "core" of my system, powered by a Shunyata Everest and NR PCs, add on a Rega P8 or P10 TT, and...I'm good to go. 👍

As the Constellation gear will drive virtually any speakers, pick the flavor that suits you best, and call it a day.

In the words, of Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery, "Yeah, baby, yeah!"

Originally Posted by ozzy

I found that using fiber going to the X1 stepped up the sound quality a couple notches.
ozzy

Yup! No high-source impedance leakage current to result in threshold jitter and impact...timing errors. Which our brains are capable of distinguishing down to in the picosecond range (and which is why we have...femtoclocks. Doh!)

I know I am sounding like a broken record here, but I am seriously impressed with Lumin.

I’ll chime in my fan affair for the X1 as well. At one point the P1 was THE digital hub for me…I dont care much for HT but that optical in was what I was looking for to manage movies, etc. I caved in an bought a AVR.

I never had a chance to hear the P1, but all the Lumins I’ve owned and own were all bought blindly - a telling sign of the consumer confidence. However, I run my X1 now with Ethernet in rather than fiber from my Ubiquiti switch. I find Ethernet to have more of a ease to the sound with a more grander stage. So far have tried different SFP transceivers, added another FSP switch between the X1 and my Ubiquiti - that, gave the sense of a ‘smiling’ EQ. Since these tweaks, I still prefer the Ethernet into the X1. In my little world, I’m kind of a fool with more money than sense and the X1 so far has been in my system the longest….(well my REL subs are actually, but I have an idea for those now, lol) Solid streamer/Dac imo.

Originally Posted by Howiebrou

I guess it depends if you need the added complexity of the P1? The P1 looks like a killer product.

It is a killer product. Listening to it right now...love it.

Originally Posted by Howiebrou

I guess it depends if you need the added complexity of the P1? The P1 looks like a killer product.

It is. It continues to really impress us.


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replacing the umbilical cord with an after market cord does improve the sound...on my X1...

Ozzy...the company is called ...'audiosensibilities.com....they make a aftermarket cord for the X1 ...better then the stock cord and not that expensive..

The P1 continues to win awards and rave reviews. It’s truly awesome.


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oz,,i think you would really like it...he seems like a really nice guy,too.

Originally Posted by calloway

oz,,i think you would really like it...he seems like a really nice guy,too.

Yeah but he doesnt seem to be making these anymore….? Am I missing something?

Originally Posted by ozzy

There seem to be many who have had problems getting the product from him.

ozzy

Well, I mean, right now at least, you can't even order them from the website - they're marked as "Sold Out".

interesting...I ordered mine about 3-4 weeks ago and got it fairly quick..

If you want a good SQ comparison between the P1 and X1, check out the Audiophile-Magazine website (it’s mostly in French but occasional pieces are published in English) and the review by Joël Chevassus. His review is also on the Lumin website. Joël is a seriously good reviewer and a contributor to 6 Moons. Cutting to the chase, according to Joël, the P1 comes very close to the X1. Remember, though, that the X1 has the 9038 DAC vs. the 9028 for the P1, so that alone should give an increase in performance. Full disclosure: I own the X1 after trading up from a T2. I really love the X1. I also hold Lumin in high regard for its execution and outstanding aftermarket support.