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Thread: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
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December 4, 2020, 10:29 PM #151
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
For Lumin U1 and U1 MINI users:
I have a beta firmware that may have a minor improvement for those using AES / BNC / coaxial / toslink (i.e. not USB) output especially when using Leedh Processing Volume. PM me if you like to try it.Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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December 18, 2020, 09:52 AM #152
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
I have a bit of a different setup where my LUMIN D2 XLR’s go to a DSPeaker anti-mode 2.0 room correction processor and from there, XLR’s to the inputs on my Simaudio Moon i7 integrated amp. My amp has a feature to bypass its volume control. This would allow me to use the volume control on the LUMIN. However, although the volume control of the preamp is bypassed, the preamp section of the amp is not being bypassed. I’m wondering if I’m even gaining anything in doing this. The volume control of the i7 is described by Simaudio as M-eVOL volume control circuit based on a resistive array configuration with no sonic degradation of the audio signal regardless of the selected volume setting. I suppose it’s easy to try it to see if there is any noticeable improvement. I’m attaching the manual to my i7 and DSPeaker.
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December 18, 2020, 12:18 PM #153
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Welcome to the forum Mark81
Flemming
Lumin X1
Rotel Michi S5
Focus Audio FS788
Inter connect : Nordost Tyr 2 ( 2 Meter )
LS cable : Yter
Power Cables : Nordost Frey 2 ( 2 Meter )
Nordost QB8
Fibercable for feeding the Lumin X1
Rack : Finite Elemente Pagode
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December 18, 2020, 09:52 PM #154
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December 18, 2020, 11:06 PM #155
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
I like the idea of resistive ladder volume control in a preamp (in fact I have one at home, disconnected and literally collecting dust) - they should be better than inexpensive potentiometer found in lower price designs. If I need to purchase another preamp some day, this will be a feature I look for, again. I recall another audio reviewer using Lumin X1 prefers X1 direct to amp rather than going through his preamp with resistive ladder volume control.
If you do this comparison, please let me know your results.Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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February 20, 2021, 07:46 PM #156
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Does the D2 do full MQA and DSD decoding to the analog output without conversion to PCM with Leedh active similar to the T2 ?
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February 20, 2021, 09:54 PM #157
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
D2: Full MQA is always available to analog output regardless of volume control. For D2, pure DSD is only available with volume control set to off (not applicable to T2 X1). Even so, we have a reviewer strongly preferring the Leedh Processing Volume in a similar case to this.
Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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February 21, 2021, 01:21 AM #158
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
The Leedh is pretty awesome straight from the Lumin to power amp; I bypass the preamp.
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February 21, 2021, 02:33 PM #159
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
I am too!
I actually sold my Ayre Preamp, cables etc. It helped lessen the pain $$$ buying the Lumin X1.
ozzy
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February 21, 2021, 02:57 PM #160
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February 24, 2021, 08:37 PM #161
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Are the benefits of using the X1 (with Leedh) connected directly to a power amp limited to playback using the Lumin app only or would they also extend to playback using Roon via the X1?
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February 24, 2021, 08:47 PM #162
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Yes Leedh Processing Volume is applicable even if using Roon, and Spotify Connect, etc.
Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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February 24, 2021, 08:53 PM #163
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Thank you. So volume control (and limiter) functions available in the Lumin app need to be provided in the Roon app if using it as there is no preamp?
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February 24, 2021, 09:49 PM #164
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Once both Volume control options are enabled in Lumin app (with optional Max Volume % setting), volume works the same way in Roon app. All these need to be set only one time using Lumin app.
Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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February 25, 2021, 03:00 PM #165
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
RDSChicago,
I am using the balanced outputs from the Lumin X1 with a 3 meter Shunyata Sigma V2 interconnect to Bob Carver M350's mono blocks.
I have attached to the Lumin via a USB cable a 8TB Hard drive that has a ton of HR music on it. I also stream from Qoboz.
ozzy
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March 19, 2021, 12:34 PM #166
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Here are my subjective test results after playing with Leedh Volume
Option 1: Connect the Lumin D1 via XLR to my Parasound P5 Pre (Leedh turned off)
Option 2: Connect the Lumin D1 via RCA cables to my Parasound P5 Pre to Bypass (Leedh turned on)
I listened to a song and flipped back and forth to the different inputs on my Pre and turning Leedh on and off. The tricky part was trying to match the volumes which is difficult but I gave it my best shot. I will continue the test with more music, but I have to say that I didn't notice a veil lifting moment, I would have to say the song didn't seem that much different to me. Maybe the Leedh had a slight edge, but I know I "wanted" the Leedh to improve my sound, so I probably was trying to convince myself it was better. Is there anything I should try differently in my test? Is having the RCA and XLR cables hooked up in the Lumin concurrently causing any degredation?
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March 19, 2021, 12:49 PM #167
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Tjs77, I had similar results (1) using my Classe sigma SSP in digital bypass mode with Leedh turned off, and (2) setting my Classe to unity gain (still in digital bypass mode) and using the Leedh volume. I had a hard time telling the difference, but if I had to pick one or the other, I would pick Leedh. Like you said, I wanted Leedh to sound better, so maybe there was some bias.
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March 19, 2021, 06:16 PM #168
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Why don’t you try going directly from the Lumin into your power amp and use the Lumin volume control with Leedh processing. That’s what I’ve been doing with my X1 and it sounds quite good!
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March 19, 2021, 07:05 PM #169
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
The Classe Sigma is a prepro and I also use it for my Blu-ray and Lg TV. Although it is a prepro, it is optimized for 2 channel. I use it in digital bypass mode when using the Lumin and it acts as a good analog preamp. It sounds good either way, I just don’t hear a big difference.
Last edited by Audiofan57; March 19, 2021 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Typo
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March 19, 2021, 07:28 PM #170
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
I have the Sigma connected to the amp via XLR. I guess I could try it directly to the amp using RCA out.
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March 24, 2021, 10:43 AM #171
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Good question, and something I tried. I would have to switch the toggle in the back of the amp for the unbalanced and balanced connection depending on if I was using my TV/Vinyl vs the Lumin for that to work. Maybe that can work, but from what I read, the Home Theater bypass *should* do the same thing theoretically as it is supposed to go through none of the circuitry in the pre-amp to process the sound. I will try the direct connection again, and see if there is an audible difference and then see if it is worth flipping the balanced/unbalanced toggle everytime I want to switch from the streamer vs any other media I'd want to listen to.
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April 18, 2021, 11:54 AM #172
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
New Lumin user here too. Perhaps I’m thick skulled, but looking for further guidance, even after reading the thread. Any other guidance to folks who have Integrated amps with internal DACs with remotes and Lumin devices. For example, on my Lumin app, I initial took all defaults on anything to do with volume settings - didnt know any better.
Max Volume % = 100
“Master” (Circle Icon) Lumin Volume = 100
Internal DAC = gain setting 0 (can be adjusted +/- 6 db I think)
Using USB Lumin > Diablo DAC
When I was listening, I was so surprised how much “more” I was hearing to the point where I had suspecting the amp was getting fed a really hot signal. My diablo 120 has a max volume at 45. Even at 25-27, my system was (maybe artificially) extremely loud - So that started me on exploring these Lumin settings.
I’m mainly a streamer, so I either use Spotify or Tidal/Quboz (probably start some hires downloads to NAS soon) from either our iPhones/iPads, but also use use my 2CH system for movies so the remote control is useful for us to switch inputs and volume. I have a Max Volume Protect controlled on the amp enabled.
Does it make sense to leave it all settings to 100% on the Lumin app? It is mentioned in the thread to set Max Volume % lower to protect the speakers for a safety? Also mentioned to just use the Lumin app for all things volume?
I suppose the end goal here is simplicity...and in my mind, I would still revert to the Diablo remote as it is familiar with my family, so that in turn makes me wonder where I should set the Lumin App settings to a “set it and forget it” setting?
Am i over thinking this? At “100” - it seems the signal is hot? Lowering it (80 on both), the audiophile hysteria in me says I’m not getting it all ‘correct’ and I need to measure — but man, I’m just a part-time audiophile_______________
Main Room: Fleetwood Sound Co. Deville SQ < Bakoon AMP-51R | < Mola Mola Tambaqui < Grimm Audio MU1
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April 18, 2021, 01:29 PM #173
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Here is what Lumin recommends insofar as options for use of Leedh processing:
LUMIN - Leedh Processing
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April 18, 2021, 04:09 PM #174
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
_______________
Main Room: Fleetwood Sound Co. Deville SQ < Bakoon AMP-51R | < Mola Mola Tambaqui < Grimm Audio MU1
>>>BACCH-SP adio
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April 19, 2021, 12:36 AM #175
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
1. If you use the volume of an integrated amp, you should generally set the U1 MINI to disable the Volume Control (such that volume is 100 with max volume % at 100), otherwise the Lumin output to the DAC will no longer be bit perfect. For Lumin digital output (not analog output like those on Lumin X1 or T2) 100 is standard, it is not hot at all. If you find Lumin digital volume 100 being too hot for your DAC, it's your DAC + amp + speakers that is too hot for your desirable listening.
2. The Max Volume % feature is primarily used in scenario where you bypass the preamp or exclusively use the Lumin app volume instead of the preamp or integrated amp volume control. You can experiment with these but if you still need to use the integrated amp volume for other purposes, then don't. You either exclusively use Lumin app volume, or exclusively use the integrated amp volume, mixing them for different purposes will be error prone.
3. If your DAC offers a lower gain setting (e.g. -6dB), you should try it. Only if it still sounds too loud to you should you decrease the Lumin volume. Note that if you have volume control enabled in Lumin U1 (MINI), DSD will be converted to PCM before outputting to the DAC.Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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April 19, 2021, 07:04 PM #176
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the response and your continued support. This is where I was concerned and you addressed them.
That part about be ‘no longer bit perfect’ is what I’m after.
Thanks for feedback on this. I did have a previous setup, it was an all in one streamer/integrated/dac and I am using the same speakers, cables, etc. But with the Lumin now in place and a new amp, even at low levels, it sounded very overwhelming, and there was no balance or less naturalness in the overall presentation and experience and I was starting to think something was bad in the chain...?
Yah I’m going to use the Integrated but by no means calling out the Lumin being at fault here.....but if there is a compromise that I need to be aware of to maintain bit perfect then at least that is brought to the light of things...and I can make a decision on what to adjust, move or replace.
Funny, you brought this up...I did just that as an experiment. And immediately there was a naturalness to the entire presentation. The terrible is smooth, the bass still intact, the system sounds so balanced now....no hint of a hot “signal” that I was previously reporting
My question, is this still bit perfect?_______________
Main Room: Fleetwood Sound Co. Deville SQ < Bakoon AMP-51R | < Mola Mola Tambaqui < Grimm Audio MU1
>>>BACCH-SP adio
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April 19, 2021, 09:25 PM #177
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Gain is a function of DAC and amp. You changed the DAC / amp of course the gain will be different. The streamer having bit perfect output cannot make a difference in measured gain. To prove this, you simply need to use a computer (instead of Lumin) and output to the Diablo, making sure you use the appropriate ASIO driver and exclusive mode (bypass the OS mixer) to play the same tracks from JRiver or Audirvana at full volume. You will see that Lumin is not the cause of loudness you're having. Your DAC and amp are (even though I'm sure they are functioning correctly).
As long as Lumin U1 (MINI) Volume Control is turned Off, you get bit perfect output.
If the hot signal you referred to was clipping within the DAC, then it makes perfect sense that setting the DAC to -6dB would cure it due to "intersample overs".Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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June 19, 2021, 12:30 PM #178
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Interesting discussions using the Lumin X1 directly into an integrated bypassing the preamp. Right now, I have my X1 going balanced out to my Diablo balanced in (XLR). So in essence (I swear a Gryphon Essence is calling my name, FML), still using the amp’s preamp, if I’m not mistakened? Too, I’m still connecting the X1 via USB to my Diablo DAC (love doing comparisons like this for the geek in me). I still need the diablo DAC module for when I watch movies, this is done by toslink, and I’m not too worried about SQ or processing since the sitting positions are not that far away.
Are the SQ gains better:
with balanced (XLR) out to RCA or is a (XLR to XLR) balanced connection the way to go?
Or..
With unbalanced (rca) to rca better?
Several different factors are considered, but the wildcard is the preamp - which device should be the sole provider?
Any update to your findings??_______________
Main Room: Fleetwood Sound Co. Deville SQ < Bakoon AMP-51R | < Mola Mola Tambaqui < Grimm Audio MU1
>>>BACCH-SP adio
Loft: Apple HomePod Mini
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June 19, 2021, 01:54 PM #179
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Hi , i just tried using the leedh from Lumin X1 , with my Accuphase E-470 as it is possible to only use its amp section. I wasn't prepared on that big difference in sound it made , everything became more clear as well as much better differentiated in depth as well as between individuals playing in a group. Its so good that i can't imagine going back to use the preamp section of the Accuphase E-470 again. And now i am beginning to think about getting an amp only as Lumin Amp , or Gryphon Essence..... i might convince my dealer to let me get loan of one to see what it can do in my system. Although i am still bleeding from the purchased of Lumin X1 , but its with a smile on my face.
Flemming
Lumin X1
Rotel Michi S5
Focus Audio FS788
Inter connect : Nordost Tyr 2 ( 2 Meter )
LS cable : Yter
Power Cables : Nordost Frey 2 ( 2 Meter )
Nordost QB8
Fibercable for feeding the Lumin X1
Rack : Finite Elemente Pagode
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June 19, 2021, 02:30 PM #180
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
_______________
Main Room: Fleetwood Sound Co. Deville SQ < Bakoon AMP-51R | < Mola Mola Tambaqui < Grimm Audio MU1
>>>BACCH-SP adio
Loft: Apple HomePod Mini
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June 19, 2021, 03:23 PM #181
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
For me, the closer you can get to the ideal "wire with gain" is where it's at for me and that means reducing the number of components in the signal path.
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June 19, 2021, 04:25 PM #182
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
_______________
Main Room: Fleetwood Sound Co. Deville SQ < Bakoon AMP-51R | < Mola Mola Tambaqui < Grimm Audio MU1
>>>BACCH-SP adio
Loft: Apple HomePod Mini
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June 19, 2021, 04:54 PM #183
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
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June 19, 2021, 05:21 PM #184
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
_______________
Main Room: Fleetwood Sound Co. Deville SQ < Bakoon AMP-51R | < Mola Mola Tambaqui < Grimm Audio MU1
>>>BACCH-SP adio
Loft: Apple HomePod Mini
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June 19, 2021, 05:48 PM #185
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
XLR has more gain but I’m sure RCA will work just as well with the Lumin volume turned up a bit to gain match the volume.
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June 20, 2021, 05:52 AM #186Flemming
Lumin X1
Rotel Michi S5
Focus Audio FS788
Inter connect : Nordost Tyr 2 ( 2 Meter )
LS cable : Yter
Power Cables : Nordost Frey 2 ( 2 Meter )
Nordost QB8
Fibercable for feeding the Lumin X1
Rack : Finite Elemente Pagode
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June 20, 2021, 05:21 PM #187
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Decided on the let app do Volume Control. Set my integrated to a Unity-ish volume while still using the XLR and man now this is what I’m talking about! Leedh Volume is sweet. Now that both preamps/volume pots(methods) are playing nicer with one another, I get to really hear the sweet analog output stage fo the X1. I may want to do a bypass at some point and use the dedicate input through RCA but thats not an immediate to do at this point. Enjoying where my hard earned cash went for now. Need to buy the Lumin folk a beer!
_______________
Main Room: Fleetwood Sound Co. Deville SQ < Bakoon AMP-51R | < Mola Mola Tambaqui < Grimm Audio MU1
>>>BACCH-SP adio
Loft: Apple HomePod Mini
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July 6, 2021, 10:49 PM #188
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
A Lumin user in a facebook group said after using the Lumin Leedh Processing Volume, he is considering to sell his $4k preamp. His comments are "very defined", "superior to preamp", and "more detailed".
Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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July 7, 2021, 07:21 AM #189
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
That's like preaching to the choir! I could have told you that
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July 12, 2021, 02:59 PM #190
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Oh yeah baby. I sold off my Ayre preamp and was totally impressed going direct from the X1 to my mono blocks.
Way better sound quality.
ozzy
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July 12, 2021, 03:49 PM #191
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Because I still need the front L&R mono amps for multichannel use, I put a high quality manually operated balanced switch that takes either the X1's or the AV processor's outputs and send it to the mono amps as needed. The only downside to this arrangement is that I can no longer use the LFE decoding capabilities going to the subwoofer that the AV processor afforded me when using that method of connecting the X1 to the mono amp. That being said, the increase is SQ going direct is more important and satisfying to me than was the bass added by the sub.
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July 12, 2021, 04:01 PM #192
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Probably a dumb question but if going direct from X1 into power amps we must use the X1’s DAC and can’t use the X1 as just a streamer going an external DAC, correct?
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July 12, 2021, 04:09 PM #193
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Not sure I fully understand but, yes, when going from the X1's analog outputs be they XLR or RCA to the power amps directly, you are using the X1's internal DAC. You can still have the X1 connected to an external DAC using the X1's digital outputs and go from the external DAC to the input of your amps.
Are you saying that you prefer another DAC to the one in the X1 or would like to try other solutions?
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July 12, 2021, 09:53 PM #194
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July 13, 2021, 03:45 AM #195
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Yes it works, but:
1. For digital output volume control, DSD128 and DSD64 will be converted to PCM. DSD256 and DSD512 cannot be played because they cannot be converted to PCM.
2. Lumin X1 / T2 / S1 analog outputs use the best form of Leedh Processing Volume. It even works for DSD 512 (X1 T2).Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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July 13, 2021, 09:34 PM #196
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
B&W 802D3
B&W 805D2
B&W HTM1D3
McIntosh MC 611’s
Classe 5300
Classe Sigma SSP
Lumin X1
Audioquest Fire and Earth interconnects
Shunyata Alpha2 power cord
Shunyata Sigma2 Ethernet
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July 13, 2021, 09:59 PM #197
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
Maybe more compute power in those players? Though I think the U1 Mini has plenty of SQ to around
_______________
Main Room: Fleetwood Sound Co. Deville SQ < Bakoon AMP-51R | < Mola Mola Tambaqui < Grimm Audio MU1
>>>BACCH-SP adio
Loft: Apple HomePod Mini
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July 14, 2021, 02:23 AM #198
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July 23, 2021, 02:49 AM #199
Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
From a Lumin T2 user: When do you decide that you have put together a System that you are happy with and you can stop shopping? - Page 2 - General Hi-Fi Discussion - StereoNET International
I chose Lumin T2 using its digital Preamp (LEEDH PROCESSING sets it apart from other choices) straight into my PMC Result6's.
The sound quality is exceptional, with a 3D image to die for. Artists are pinpoint in a vast soundstage, most importantly, its musical, involving and non fatiguing, some even say its vinyl like.Peter Lie
LUMIN Firmware Lead
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July 25, 2021, 02:15 PM #200
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Re: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way
I would like to acquire the Lumin U1 or X1 & use the Leedh processing volume control (no pre-amp). Is it possible to use a hand held remote for volume in such a set-up? The remote would be for an external Dac or the Dac within the X1 (if available). If not, how does the volume level control within the Lumin app compare to a hand held device? Thanks.
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
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I upgraded the power supply on my Gigafoil v4 to a Weiss PSU 102. It’s very nice step up. But with the new model, you’re looking at $2000 before even investing in a SOTA linear power supply.
GigaFoil v4 Inline Ethernet Filter