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  1. #101
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    From a Lumin X1 user: Lumin X1: Enabling an Even Simpler Yet Better Sounding System | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet!

    I'd call it greater clarity and immediacy, lower-yet apparent distortion, together with larger-yet soundstaging in all dimensions and more solid imaging--the usual audiophile desiderata. This effect seems audible on all signals from low-quality internet radio streams up through high resolution programs.
    Even at extremely low volume levels (didn't want to wake my sleeping spouse, of course!) of between 8 to 10 on the 100-point volume scale ("normal" high volume for me in this system is about 72 or so), the added clarity and transparency were amazing. It's like I suddenly had Quad 57s or some other speaker known for extreme transparency even at very low volume levels.

    The Leedh volume processing can be toggled on and off at will within the Lumin App for comparison. The switchover takes less than five seconds. Thus, pretty good A/B testing of the Leedh processing is available. (This assumes, of course, that Lumin has not somehow "dumbed down" the volume control when Leedh is not engaged in the new firmware. There's no way to quickly A/B the new version of the firmware with the old version.) The difference is the proverbial "night and day." And this is even though the direct connection before seemed surprisingly sonically purer than using the special relay-controlled volume control of my Benchmark HPA4 "preamp" which I thought was pretty special indeed at the time.
    The combination of upsampling/resampling everything via Roon's DSP engine to DSD 512, Leedh Volume processing by the Lumin X1, and the elimination of the DSD to PCM filtration in Roon has enabled my system to push past some threshold into a realism I've never before achieved. On much program material, there is an absence of artifacts and a see-through realism which allow me to suspend disbelief to an extent never before possible. This is even true for much low-bit-rate internet radio material.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  2. #102
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    Re: Leedh Processing Volume free upgrade

    Still haven't got round to testing this.
    Is there anyone with a passive preamp that has tested this?
    Your thoughts?

    Sent from my Swift 2 Plus using Tapatalk
    Boenicke Audio W11 Speakers with SwingBase; MFA Baby Reference V2 Passive Preamp; Lumin T2; Nord One SE UP NC500DM Stereo; Roksan Caspian CD Player; SRM Arezzo Turntable; Ortofon 2M Blue; Rothwell Rialto; Synology DS215j; Van Damme Blue series/Mark Grant

    ATMOS/DTS X 5.1.4: Sony VPL-HW45ES; 97" Filmex Screen; Arcam AVR390; Nakamichi AVP1; Sony BDP-S7200; XTZ Cinema Series: M6, S5, S2; XTZ 12.17 Sub

  3. #103
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    Re: Leedh Processing Volume free upgrade

    Peter..so the 'Max Volume %' in the Lumin 's app should be set all the way to the left...or '30' on my app..but not all the way over to the right at 100...?Volume control - On...Leedh Processing volume -ON...I take my Lumin S1 directly to my Chalice Audio 'Grail' SET mono blocks.My question i s where should the Max Volume % be set to..?..I have the Volume Control and Leedh Processing Volume set to 'ON'..
    Listening Room: 25' L x 18' W x 23' H..system on the long wall
    Speakers: Tidal 'Contriva Diacera-SE
    Amps: Chalice Audio 'Grail' SET mono blocks with Psvane WE 845 / 300b tubes
    Source: Lumin X-1 Network Music Player
    HighFidelity MC-1 Pro Helix conditioner
    Cables:
    LessLoss C-MARC RCA interconnect
    Silent Source 'Music Reference' Speaker Cables
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    LessLoss 'Firewall for Speaker Cable'
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    Clarus 'Duet' Power Conditioner

    REL 212 SE Subwoofer x 2
    GigaFoil v4 inline filter / Keces PSU / WireWorld 'Starlight'
    Ethernet cable



    Tweaks:
    Stillpoints Ultra SS under amps
    EVP HDR isolators 2" x 8...under my Lumin A1 and PSU
    EVP HDR isolators 4" x 16..under my Tidal speakers and my REL 212 SE subs

  4. #104
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    Re: Leedh Processing Volume free upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by calloway View Post
    Peter..so the 'Max Volume %' in the Lumin 's app should be set all the way to the left...or '30' on my app..but not all the way over to the right at 100...?Volume control - On...Leedh Processing volume -ON...I take my Lumin S1 directly to my Chalice Audio 'Grail' SET mono blocks.My question i s where should the Max Volume % be set to..?..I have the Volume Control and Leedh Processing Volume set to 'ON'..
    This is meant for speaker protection.
    Actual volume = Main volume circle * Max Volume %. If your main volume is 70, max volume is 80%, then actual volume = 70 * 80% = 56.

    One way to determine Max Volume % is this. Choose a track which is the least loud, lower the main volume, set the Max Volume % to 100, gradually turn up the main volume until you think that's the loudest you'd ever need. Hypothetically if you find that actual volume 56 is all you need, then perhaps set Max Volume % to 60.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  5. #105
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    Re: Leedh Processing Volume free upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by Showroom Dummies View Post
    Still haven't got round to testing this.
    Is there anyone with a passive preamp that has tested this?
    (Excluding dealer members here) You probably have the best passive preamp in this Lumin subforum. Please test it and tell us.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  6. #106
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    From a Lumin U1 MINI + RME ADI-2 DAC/preamp user: LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player - Page 105 - Networking, Networked Audio, and Streaming - Audiophile Style
    for the Leedh implementation on my Lumin U1 Mini connected to my preamp via USB: it is slightly audibly better sounding to my ears when using Leedh processing and setting the DAC/pre-amp to a unity gain setting, versus turning volume control off on the U1m and using the digital volume control of the DAC/pre-amp.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  7. #107
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    Re: Leedh Processing Volume free upgrade

    Peter...thanks for the perfect explanation....
    Listening Room: 25' L x 18' W x 23' H..system on the long wall
    Speakers: Tidal 'Contriva Diacera-SE
    Amps: Chalice Audio 'Grail' SET mono blocks with Psvane WE 845 / 300b tubes
    Source: Lumin X-1 Network Music Player
    HighFidelity MC-1 Pro Helix conditioner
    Cables:
    LessLoss C-MARC RCA interconnect
    Silent Source 'Music Reference' Speaker Cables
    Silent Source 'Music Reference' Power Cords x 3
    LessLoss 'Firewall for Speaker Cable'
    Revelation Audio Cat 8+ Ethernet Cable
    Clarus 'Duet' Power Conditioner

    REL 212 SE Subwoofer x 2
    GigaFoil v4 inline filter / Keces PSU / WireWorld 'Starlight'
    Ethernet cable



    Tweaks:
    Stillpoints Ultra SS under amps
    EVP HDR isolators 2" x 8...under my Lumin A1 and PSU
    EVP HDR isolators 4" x 16..under my Tidal speakers and my REL 212 SE subs

  8. #108
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Peter, I’m wondering, since the U1 and U1 Mini don’t have DAC chips, before the addition of Leedh Processing Volume, how was Volume Control=On being implemented for the USB output? DSP via the FPGA I presume, but was that DSP similar to how Leedh is done now or are the algorithms very different?

    For the Lumin products with DACs (e.g., T2, X1, etc.) I assume the old volume control was via the DAC chip’s proprietary internal volume control, but the new Leedh processing is via the FPGA. Is that correct? What about the digital outputs on those players; how was volume control being done for digital out of the T2 for example? Is the old/original digital-out volume control implementation for the T2 the same as for the U1/U1 Mini?

    Regarding connecting U1 to an external DAC like the RME ADI-2 where additional DSP is likely being accomplished, wouldn’t it be best to turn volume control off on the U1 (regardless of the Leedh setting) so that all the “bits” are there for the DAC’s DSP to work with?

    Thanks,
    M1k3

  9. #109
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    1. The algorithms are very different.
    2. Different outputs on different models have different implementations to maximize the SQ. For T2, the analog, USB and BNC outputs go through different paths in the hardware, to achieve the best results we actually have different implementations of Leedh Processing Volume on the T2 (and on X1). Across different models but for the same types of outputs, the implementation is usually similar.
    3. This is where theory needs to be confirmed by experiments. Experimentally it was shown the Leedh Processing Volume is superior to the standard digital volume in the DAC. I'm not sure about "additional DSP is likely being accomplished", the presence of some DSP features do not necessarily imply most users make use of them. But if DSP is really used, I think it is even more important to find the result experimentally, as this becomes an issue of less degradation of volume control but leaving less bits for the DSP to work with vs leaving more bits for DSP to work with even knowing the DSP volume control has moredegradation.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  10. #110
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    From a Lumin D2 user with Bel Canto Ref 1000 monoblocks feeding Magnepan 3.7s: Leedh Processing - Perfect Digital Volume Control? - Feature Requests - Roon Labs Community
    Referring to the title 撤erfect Digital Volume Control? I would have to reply with a resounding 添ES!
    As it is these days - I had quite some time available for tinkering with my system and so I activated Leedh on my Lumin D2 (with LPS) and took the pre-amp (Pass XP-10) out of the chain.
    I did not really expect much from the change (especially after a few hickups in the beginning, which were entirely my own fault), but what can I say ?
    I was totally blown away by the difference in sound!
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  11. #111
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    I have not played with it extensively (Lumin U1 via USB to EMM Labs DAC2X to my Modwright LS36.5DM preamp) but did notice that with it engaged, the EMM Labs DAC no longer lights up to indicate a DSD file is playing (the DAC has lights for 44.1 and 48kHz and when a DSD file is played it lights them both up, when a hi-rez file of multiples of either sampling rate is played, only that LED is lit and with Leedh engaged only the 44.1 light is on, which would be indicative of CD quality or a multiple of 44.1).
    Main System - Lumin U1, Modwright LS36.5 DM Preamp, EVS 1200 Amp, EMM Labs DAC 2X (ver. 2), Torus RM-20, Thiel CS 3.7s, 2 Rel Storm III subs
    Back-up 1 - Hegel H190 Integrated Amp/DAC, Oppo 103D, 2 Richard Gray cond, Ohm Microwalsh Talls, Rel Strata III sub
    Back-up 2 - Sherbourn Pre-1, Mivera PurePowerSE Amp, Panasonic DP-UB9000, Vansevers cond, B&W P6s, Sumiko S.5 sub

  12. #112
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    For digital output, volume control requires conversion of DSD to PCM, since digital volume cannot be applied to DSD.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  13. #113
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    For digital output, volume control requires conversion of DSD to PCM, since digital volume cannot be applied to DSD.
    Is there a particular PCM sampling rate DSD gets converted to? The DAC lights up at 44.1kHz which could indicate 44.1kHz or a multiple of it (e.g. if I play a 24/352 file it would light up the same as a CD quality file). My old DAC would show sampling rates of up to 192kHz.
    Main System - Lumin U1, Modwright LS36.5 DM Preamp, EVS 1200 Amp, EMM Labs DAC 2X (ver. 2), Torus RM-20, Thiel CS 3.7s, 2 Rel Storm III subs
    Back-up 1 - Hegel H190 Integrated Amp/DAC, Oppo 103D, 2 Richard Gray cond, Ohm Microwalsh Talls, Rel Strata III sub
    Back-up 2 - Sherbourn Pre-1, Mivera PurePowerSE Amp, Panasonic DP-UB9000, Vansevers cond, B&W P6s, Sumiko S.5 sub

  14. #114
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Usually 352.8kHz or 176.4kHz.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  15. #115
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh窶冓ng the way

    From a Lumin D2 user with PS Audio M700: Lumin T2 mid/high distortion "spitting" "splatty" DAC gone bad? - Lumin - Roon Labs Community
    I have a D2 connected directly to my M700 thru xlr. Dynamics is better compared to when connected with my preamp took away the coloration too.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  16. #116

    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    Usually 352.8kHz or 176.4kHz.
    I currently have a U1 Mini and it converts DSD to 352.8kHz as expected. Does the T2 with LEEDH Processing avoid conversion of DSD to PCM like the X1 model?

  17. #117
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Yes, it avoids conversion for analog output.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  18. #118

    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    Yes, it avoids conversion for analog output.
    I've also noticed that my MQA DAC does not properly recognize MQA music files with LEEDH processing active using the U1 Mini. Once I turn off all volume control, it properly recognizes the MQA stream and decodes the file.

    Does the T2 allow you to keep LEEDH active and properly decode MQA files?

  19. #119
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Any kind of digital volume or DSP will destroy MQA integrity, therefore your external MQA DAC will no longer see it as MQA. The "Authenticated" part of Master Quality Authenticated ensures the bit stream is not changed. Digital volume changes the bits.

    For Lumin with internal DAC, since the volume is applied after MQA decoding, full MQA decoding to T2 analog output is unharmed by digital volume.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  20. #120

    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    Any kind of digital volume or DSP will destroy MQA integrity, therefore your external MQA DAC will no longer see it as MQA. The "Authenticated" part of Master Quality Authenticated ensures the bit stream is not changed. Digital volume changes the bits.

    For Lumin with internal DAC, since the volume is applied after MQA decoding, full MQA decoding to T2 analog output is unharmed by digital volume.
    I'm using a Topping D90 MQA DAC with the Lumin U1 Mini and get loud pops anytime it switches from DSD to PCM (volume control bypassed on both Lumin and D90). Very concerned about the health of my speakers as a result. Any idea why this is happening? The D90 uses the XMOS XU216 USB interface. I've read the XU216 may be the culprit.

    Thinking of moving to the T2. Are you aware of any issues with pops when there is a change of format or sampling rate? I want to ensure I avoid the same issue with pops if I make the move.

  21. #121
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    The XU216 itself is not the culprit, its role is like the CPU in your computer. The firmware running on the XU216 has to be programmed carefully to avoid such pops. As a workaround you may force the U1 MINI to convert DSD to PCM by enabling Volume Control. So the DAC only handles PCM and it won't need to switch between PCM and DSD, thereby avoiding any potential DSD-related pop.

    Please make sure you're running the latest firmware for the D90 DAC.

    There is no pop sound in T2 when switching between any format.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  22. #122

    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Question: With the U1 Mini, is it possible to activate Leedh, and set a fixed volume level (ie: 75%) with the volume circle locked/inactive?

    Why: use case is gain staging; if I still want to use my analog preamp volume control but my DAC outputs a hot signal, can I use the U1 Mini to attenuate the digital level via Leedh without worrying about some other user in the household adjusting the LUMIN volume via the circle?

  23. #123
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Disabling the volume control causes the volume to be 100, so it's not what you need. The next best thing to do is to set the Max Volume % to 75.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  24. #124
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Quote Originally Posted by asiano View Post
    I'm using a Topping D90 MQA DAC with the Lumin U1 Mini and get loud pops anytime it switches from DSD to PCM (volume control bypassed on both Lumin and D90). Very concerned about the health of my speakers as a result. Any idea why this is happening? The D90 uses the XMOS XU216 USB interface. I've read the XU216 may be the culprit.
    I asked someone to test Lumin USB output to a Topping D90 non-MQA DAC balanced output -> Accuphase balanced pre-out -> Benchmark amp, he reported there is no pop sound switching between PCM tracks and DSD tracks.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  25. #125

    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    I am a believer! All electronics have signatures that add to overall system performance and, because I removed the preamp and associated cabling from my system and now go directly into the front end of my monos for all things two-channel, the proverbial veil has been lifted a little bit more. Thanks Lumin!

  26. #126
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    I would just like to chime in and say that the Leedh firmware addition is a FANTASTIC add! My entire music collection has been reborn. I cannot fathom going back to adjusting volume through the pre-amp. Tip of the cap to you guys at Lumin for providing this free of charge. So very unique in this day and age. I purchased the A1 not too long after its inception, and am still enjoying it to this day. The Leedh processing is like an A1 on steroids. Nice amount of veil lifting.

    Again, Kudos
    Lumin A1 & L1, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Ayre VX-R Twenty, Sonus Faber Olympica III
    Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 6 interconnects & speaker cables, Lessloss, Cardas, & Telwire power cords
    Adona Zero GXT, SRA, Symposium, & Stillpoints isolation
    , RPG, ASC, & Real Traps room treatment

    Bob

  27. #127
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    From a Lumin D2 user on Roon forum:
    When Lumin came up with Leedh-processing I tried that and was so impressed with the quality that I actually sold my pre-amp - freeing up some money so that I was able to upgrade to a Lumin痴 flagship, the X1.
    I think there's hardly better proof of Leedh Processing Volume than selling the pre-amp.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  28. #128
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    From a Lumin U1 MINI user on a Hong Kong forum:
    I received the U1 Mini and connected with my Ayer QB-9 DSD now. Very happy with the outcome. Even with switching power supply it sounds really good. With LPSU the tone is now very balanced. Good bass, high freq not bright either.

    I think Leedh volume control is a real winner. I decided to keep the Lumin and sell my XXXXXXXX N100 due to this. With the volume control, I can bring my integrated amp to "normal" level like 40% (or like 10-11 o'clock position). Without it, I have to turn down the volume to like 25% or less and we all know that's not ideal [...] So every component now perform at their sweet spots.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  29. #129
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    From a Lumin U1 + Chord Dave user from Roon forum: I dare to say I知 happy - Roon Software - Roon Labs Community
    With Leedh in my U1 I am able to put the Dave in DAC Mode, thereby bypassing the preamp controls in Dave and going directly to my amp and utilize volume control in Roon. Although I知 still testing, my first impression it is a slight improvement in sound quality and I really like having the volume control in Roon.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  30. #130
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    If I get get rid of my pre amp and directly connect X1 to my Pass Labs X250.5 amp, would it be possible to control the volume with some type of a remote? I heard about all the volume problems with the X1 pre amp. My preamp is David Sachs tube pre amp which is very good and my current DAC is Lampizator Big 7, which is also very good. I am considering buying a X1. Let me know what you think?

  31. #131
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    You have the choice of leaving the preamp in the system, just turn the volume way up on your Don Sachs, and use the Lumin app on your I-pad or I-phone for volume level.
    I am using my I-pad for Tidal and Qobuz so the volume control is right there also. All in one.
    Or Take the preamp out altogether. And just have the Lumin do the volume control.
    I prefer leaving the preamp in my system as it greatly adds to the party. YMMV.
    Either way I do prefer using the Leedh volume control over my preamp's control.
    My System:
    Lumin A-1
    Joule Electra LA150 Signature Plus
    Pass XA30.5
    Von Schweikert VR4Jr MkIII Anniversary
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    Cables: Teo Audio, Cerious Tech, Fusion Audio.
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    DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.

  32. #132
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Just a word of caution that if using the Tidal or Qobuz apps on an iPhone or iPad, volume control is done on the mobile device which then uses AirPlay to any Lumin device.

    If using the Tidal or Qobuz features of the Lumin app on an iPhone or iPad, then volume control is done on the Lumin device輸irPlay is not used as the Lumin device retrieves the music data from Tidal or Qobuz directly.

    If you want to use the X1 volume control then you either need to use the Lumin app (Android or iOS), or you have to use the Roon app (computer or mobile device).
    Neko Audio
    Authorized Dealer: AC Infinity, Acoustic Zen, APC, Audeze, Bryston, Devialet, Dirac, Elite HTS, Fortress Seating, JVC, LG, LUMIN, Magico, Ortofon, Prism Sound, RME, Samsung, STAX, Trinnov, & more.

  33. #133
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoAudio View Post
    Just a word of caution that if using the Tidal or Qobuz apps on an iPhone or iPad, volume control is done on the mobile device which then uses AirPlay to any Lumin device.
    For iPad YouTube AirPlay to Lumin, the volume is done by the Lumin device, using Leedh Processing Volume if enabled. The AirPlay protocol can send a volume attenuation value to the receiver (but latest Lumin firmware rescales this value to a more usable scale). (RAAT also sends a volume number to the endpoint.)
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  34. #134
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    Re: Lumin, Leedh段ng the way

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoAudio View Post
    Just a word of caution that if using the Tidal or Qobuz apps on an iPhone or iPad, volume control is done on the mobile device which then uses AirPlay to any Lumin device.
    I have to take back this statement. I just tried using the Qobuz app on my iPhone and adjusting the iPhone volume while streaming over AirPlay to a Lumin device just adjust the Lumin device volume. But adjusting the volume of the Lumin device directly doesn't automatically reflect back to the iPhone volume setting. So it can get out of sync. This led to my earlier confusion and incorrect statement, which Peter corrected.
    Neko Audio
    Authorized Dealer: AC Infinity, Acoustic Zen, APC, Audeze, Bryston, Devialet, Dirac, Elite HTS, Fortress Seating, JVC, LG, LUMIN, Magico, Ortofon, Prism Sound, RME, Samsung, STAX, Trinnov, & more.

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Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.

Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team


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