Thread: Lumin, Leedh’ing the way

Originally Posted by hatateru

Hi Peter, I’m using U1 mini may I know how does the Leeching processing work on the network transport if there is no internal dac like T2 or A1? Thanks

Yes, Leedh Processing Volume also works on U1 (MINI). In fact it works across the whole Lumin product line of network players / transports. For digital output, the music data is altered by the Leedh algorithm to reduce the loudness. For analog output, we have different implementations of Leedh algorithm for different DAC hardware.

Yes, and make sure the Leedh Processing Volume setting is On (default).

As for whether you should use the pre-amp volume or Leedh volume, please do an A/B comparison of SQ if possible and let us know.

Lumin U1 MINI Leedh Processing against DAC volume: LUMIN Music - Leedh Processing - Lumin - Roon Labs Community

For now I use the leedh processing on a U1mini with a Ayon Skylla 2 dac and 813 single end tube power amplifiers with Marten Duke2 speakers in a home office. For me the leedh processing give better results in this configuration than the classical digital volume control of the Lumin, and than the integrated volume control of the Skylla 2 dac. Some years before, I used a Ayon Crossfire integrated amplifier with a motorised ladder volume control and connecting the Skylla2 to the Crossfire by the direct input, bypassing the ladder and using the Skylla volume control, gave far better results in transparency (so take care of the preamplifiers and integrated, the bottleneck is often here behind the pleasure of a colored or limited item). Today the leedh volume control give a bit more relaxed presentation with better tone accuracy, better resolution on fine details, increased naturalness in voices, acoustical instruments that seems less compressed, less planed at one end instead of being gradually attenuated over the entire strip with respect of each levels of dynamics.

With all the precautions and "subjectivities" that an audio system entails in its environment,
I leave - apologizing for my English - what I heard in my system.
Before doing the "direct" test that I think is the most useful for this implementation, and that I have not yet done, my "bottleneck" Ayre (preamplifier that holds the turntable, DAT etc. together) who do not want to know they are left disconnected ) ...
LEEDH equalization (digital volume) "works" I mean that -IMHO- it smoothly/smoothes the very high range in favour of a more "full-bodied" presentation without affecting the "geometry" (stereophonic image, 3D scene ...)
The verb "blunt" / "sweetens" ... in (one) reality ... in revealing systems (loudspeakers) it can be an advantage but also no.
It must be said that in any case sui generiis in digital listening (streaming?) this intervention is almost always an improvement, isn't it?
Here, this is my opinion of the "LEEDH volume" vs the (updated?) Control of Lumin and, perhaps important too, I must add that I did these "tests" with streaming from TuneIn through my U1 mini with Music transmitted in Mp3 (16/44 at only 128 kbps)
Shocked?
Well, you should read more, because if I use the old Ayre (all OFF for digital volumes) then ... there is no (yet) story.
In Colorado they had seen well and above all very far, do not be angry.

Luca

P.S. If you tell me that this LEEDH doesn't work in MP3, then I go to a doctor

Originally Posted by Anwo

Oppo DAC firmware version is USB-0118. This makes sense, the Oppo is indeed functioning as USB MQA DAC.

Please confirm you were playing MQA music.

After reading through all of the posts, I am still confused. I am currently running my T2 through a Classe Sigma passive preamp. If I try the Leedh, do I keep the Leedh processing volume at 100% and adjust my overall volume with the volume control with the circle around it?

Originally Posted by Audiofan57

After reading through all of the posts, I am still confused. I am currently running my T2 through a Classe Sigma passive preamp. If I try the Leedh, do I keep the Leedh processing volume at 100% and adjust my overall volume with the volume control with the circle around it?

You are probably mixing up the Max Volume % with the Leedh Processing Volume features. The Max Volume % is to decrease the actual volume to protect speakers - e.g. if the volume circle is 80, but the Max Volume % is 70, then your actual volume is 80 * 70% = 56. This feature works regardless of whether you use the Leedh Processing Volume or not.

Here's how to execute Scenario 3:

In your current listening environment with the preamp, please use a free sound meter app on smartphone to measure the volume level of your favorite track.

Stop the playback. Decrease the Lumin app volume circle to a very low level. Power off the amps. Direct connect the T2 to your power amp (i.e. bypass the preamp). Power on the amps. Start playback and turn up the Lumin app volume circle to match the measured sound level.

Originally Posted by terryakhan

I only have a U1, connected to my DAC to pre-amp then to power amps to speakers.
Pls tell me if I am doing this incorrectly.
After removing my pre-amp, dac is connected to power amp, dac digital volume control is at 100.
In the U1 app:
Volume Control is at ON
Leedh Processing Volume is at ON
Max Volume % is at 100

Exit app, set top side circle volume control to 0
Turn my power amp on.
Start playing a track.
Tap on top right hand circle and slowly increase the volume level.
Am I using the Leedh feature ?

Yes. Before and after this please use a free sound meter app on smartphone to measure the volume level of your favorite track.

User e-mail:

The Leedh processing upgrade with the U1 Mini totally improved my system sound.

Huge thanks for letting me actually hear the capability of my audio system for the first time.

iOS or Android?

Please make sure you're on Firmware 13, and update Lumin app to latest version.

If you're already using the latest app, please kill the app and relaunch it.

Use the volume in the circle.

You are probably mixing up the Max Volume % with the Leedh Processing Volume features. The Max Volume % is to decrease the actual volume to protect speakers - e.g. if the volume circle is 80, but the Max Volume % is 70, then your actual volume is 80 * 70% = 56. This feature works regardless of whether you use the Leedh Processing Volume or not.

Originally Posted by Luca

I hope this description can be useful, it's my point of view about how should be explained in APP.

---> The "circle volume" on the main screen is: MASTER VOLUME (it controls the output of any sound EQ the device is running)
---> The "(%) Max volume" inside option mode is the GAIN of the respective sound EQ: the LUMIN one or the LEEDH if this feature is switched to ON
-- > The switch "Volume control" inside option mode turns ON or OFF any sound EQ, and the "Master Volume" (if its set to OFF) on the main screen becomes unusable (position 100, Max, like APP rightly warns)

I think launching this at the same time as Leedh may have lead to some confusion.

Max Volume is there simply to restrict/limit the volume to prevent accidentally overpowering your speakers or ears. It is simply a convenience feature. It has no effect on volume itself.

It is aimed at LUMIN Amp owners, customers who connect their LUMIN directly to a power amplifier, and customers who set a pre-amp at unity gain.
In these scenarios, it was previously possible to accidentally turn volume up too high and damage speakers/ears.
So we've added this Max volume limit to prevent that.

Users who adjust the volume via pre-amp, are still recommended to run volume at 100% (the only way to do that is if Max volume is also set at 100%).

We are considering renaming this setting Max Volume Limit and perhaps adding a Max Volume Limit on/off setting. This is still in discussion.

Hope that clarifies.
Apologies if you already knew all that!

Note: We could have just made Max Volume just make the volume circle never go above a certain number. This would have perhaps been clearer, but we wanted to retain the granularity of 1-100 adjustment whatever your Max Volume setting. (for example, if someone found their max to be 19%, that would have limited their adjustment to only 20 positions, which isn't fine enough).

Originally Posted by Andik777

Hello everyone, after several tests and listening to my system, I share my thoughts about Firmware V13. First of all, I would like to tell you that in my system I had a lot of bass (amplifier controls all in 0), installing the V13 Firmware and activating the Ledh volume and the Lumin app, I managed to improve the sound in general. All the changes I notice
1. Quieter background
2. Treble much smoother
3. The precent bass but without making a ball of bass.
4. The Lumin X1 sounded exceedingly good before the V13 but now it sounds exceptional, I enjoy the music more.

My thanks to Peter and the entire Lumin team for this great GIFT. Cordial greetings.

Agree with your appreciation about the SQ of the new update also with my T2
(wrote similar concepts in another thread)
In my system I miss a bit the deep bass in some albums...
But the sound and integration of the whole spectrum is great

Well, first of all thank the entire Lumin team for the new firmware version that incorporates the leedh processor.
In my particular case, a Lumin T2, the change was very noticeable.
I really used the volume of the app, since I have an integrated valve amplifier without remote control, it is an EICO ST 40 from the 60s, which I opened from its original box back in the 90s, and I still keep it with little use, since I started using it about 8 years ago. (I do not permanently use this system, since there are other systems sharing the space).
The speakers connected to this amplifier are original Tannoy Cheviots from the late 1970s, in their second version. (with original Tannoy recone made approximately 5 years ago and crossover upgrade).
The change is really very noticeable.
- More controlled bass with greater impact.
- Greater separation of instruments
- Higher level of detail in general
- Smoother and more natural treble
- Higher level of silence.
It brought a lot of musicality to this particular system, now I will begin to evaluate it with my other systems, although in a brief listening with Vincent SV-700 + Tannoy 615 MKII I also share those concepts, with the obvious differences in timbre and characteristics of each of these systems.
Music is really much more enjoyable.
Despite having fairly modest systems next to many (or most) of the users of this forum, I hope to be making a worthwhile contribution for those who may need it.
Best regards.

Originally Posted by Andik777

Could you indicate the volume level of Leedh and the T2 app please.

Because I have a preamp (Luxman C900) I don’t use the Leedh feature
and the volume is fixed at maximum.
So the change is in the new firmware and not only when using the Leedh control

PS: live in Israel but I was born in Buenos Aires
nací y crecí en villa Urquiza y mi familia vive ahí
Un saludo

Originally Posted by gabweb

Because I have a preamp (Luxman C900) I don’t use the Leedh feature
and the volume is fixed at maximum.
So the change is in the new firmware and not only when using the Leedh control

I also use a Preamp and I´m just using the new firmware and Leedh volume with very good results.

Probá bajándola y a ver que notas en tu Sistema, seguramente sientas mejoras.

Saludos-Regards;

From our product manager: (Note: the engineer who took the shortcut is not me.)

===================================

The story of LUMIN and Leedh Processing Volume Control


We have a long relationship with Joël of 6Moons reviewer. We see each other during each year Munich show. During High End show 2018. Joël kept bugging me with this new end-of-the-world revolutionary new Volume Control algorithm, Leedh Processing! Frankly I was not that interested at that time. But Joël was raving about it so I kept it in mind.

In 2018 Sep, we had a tour visiting many dealers in Europe. We were in Paris and visited Joël setup in his home. Joël brought along the inventor of Leedh Processing and gave us a demo using their evaluation system. The difference was night and day IMO! Joël said he compared to many software and hardware (pre-amp) volume control and nothing came close.

But my teams were not that convinced. We audiophile all have very different taste! So the development was stalled a bit. I want to push this feature ASAP. But our engineers said from a technical point of view, it is nothing special. Just another way to do volume calculation!

And there was the cost issue! It's not free! Another big Hi-Fi brand charge a premium for this feature upgrade! We had discussed how to market to users. In theory we can setup a system to charge for this new feature. So the development stalled more.

Eventually, I said cut the crap and just do it! So we had a test version by the end of last year. Joël tried the test firmware with position feedback. It's certainly better than the original volume control in LUMIN, but there was still something not right. Leedh Processing party went to Joël's setup and did some measurement and found some volume adjustment were out of specs. Turned out our engineer took some shortcut, because that was easier (to integrate with our existing data flow) and the result "should" be the same!

So we re-did the whole thing from the ground up! After 6 months of hard work (to implement Leedh Processing on our whole LUMIN lineup), everyone is happy now!

According to our engineers, if you really study all the document from Leedh Processing web links, it's possible to work out the algorithm on your own (Sorry Leedh Processing party!). But we need to pay respect to where's credit due. So we pay license to Leedh Processing and offer free upgrade to all LUMIN users.

Enjoy the music!

X1 & Amp

===================================

IMO, use cases of Leedh Processing volume control are:

For Analog output
- normally use pre-amp or integrated amp volume control, but also very tempted to use LUMIN volume for quick adjust with the convenience. Before Leedh Processing, it's not preferable. Now we can have our cake and eat it without any ill effect.

- set pre-amp or integrated amp to unity gain (or at a fixed gain position), or use pre-amp/integrated amp "by-pass" input, then control LUMIN volume with Leedh Processing.

* if your pre-amp has no "by-pass" input, and you want to connect LUMIN player directly to the power amp, you may consider add a simple audio switch device like this:
https://www.audio “science” review/forum/index.php?threads/nobsound-3-in-1-out-xlr-audio-switch-review.11062/
And connect both pre-amp and LUMIN to the switch, then to the power amp.

- direct connect LUMIN to power amp and control LUMIN volume with Leedh Processing.

For Digital output
- before Leedh Processing, user is advised to NOT use volume control in LUMIN. Now it's free to use with Leedh Processing. User can try which way do they prefer.

The theory of Leedh Processing is to avoid too many bit of information. Because many least significant bits will be lose in DAC conversion, hence Leedh Processing try to use as little (number of) bit as possible to represent volume value, so that when the audio data reach DAC, many least significant bits are already at zero value, then the bit truncation in DAC conversion doesn't matter and the integrity of audio information is retained (lossless).

These are the 2 very different approach toward volume control calculation. Many bits (64bit for example) approach aims for accuracy (but some data will be lost in DAC conversion), while Leedh Processing approach aim for exactness (use as little bit as possible for an exact volume number).

The proof is in the listening! And it seems by actual listening, most people prefer the sound of Leedh Processing!

OK, I'll shut up now!

Originally Posted by wklie

If you're using Lumin A1 (or T1 or S1 or X1) connecting both XLR and RCA simultaneously will degrade the sound quality.

Dear Peter

I was thinking to connect my A1 in this way...

Option 1: From A1 --> XLR output to my Preamplifiera McIntosh C2600
Option 2: From A1 --> RCA output to my Power Amp McInsoth C302

I think it will be good for Option 1 to use Leedh Vol passing through my Preamplifier enabling me to use Bass or Trebble controls.

For Option 2 think it will be good to directly connect from my A1 to Power Amp avoiding Preamp just using Leedh Vol.

Regretfully after reading your comment that "connecting both XLR and RCA simulatneously will degrade sound quality" I do not know what to do right now.

Could you give me some advice..?

On the other hand I also have Option 3: because my Preamp has the possibility to assign an RCA input as a "bypass mode" but in this way I will need to have again both XLR and RCA output connection simultaneously at the same time too.

I will be waiting for your advice in order to understand if these options are ok or if really XLR and RCA simultaneously connecting degrade soo much the sound that makes it imposible to use or a bad connection method.

Many thanks,

Please try option 1 and 2 separately, and see which sounds better to you. As for the degradation, you will have to try it yourself and hear whether it is significant or insignificant in your setup.

From Lumin X1 user PM at volume 100:

I worried that our source (Spotify) might not be good enough to reveal any difference. As things turned out, I was wrong.

We both heard an improvement in overall clarity. It's most noticeable in the midrange. There is more "presence" as if a veil had been lifted. (Less noise?) Bass notes might be a bit better differentiated. The stereo image is definitely bigger (height, width, depth). The system "sings" as if all connections had been cleaned and tightened.

From Lumin T2 user: LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player - Page 102 - Networking, Networked Audio, and Streaming - Audiophile Style

I recently upgraded my T2 from firmware V12.0 to 13.0 and am convinced that there’s some divine intervention going on with the new firmware ☺ My T2 is connected directly to Purifi based amplification and speakers. Distortion is exceptionally low across my entire audio chain allowing it to resolve detail to a high level. I was already impressed by the performance of the T2 prior to the firmware upgrade but V13.0 with Leedh active has taken it up a notch, particularly when playing music at low to mid volumes (via Roon). The difference is not night and day since the T2 was already exceptional but the improved transparency is, nonetheless, very evident to me.

Originally Posted by Anwo

So is it correct the volume control does not function on U1 Mini when connected to an USB Dac but not playing MQA music?

A fix for U1 MINI is now available for your USB DAC in a new firmware 13.0a.

From Lumin U1 MINI user: Lumin T2 upgrade LPS - 第2頁 - 兩聲道音響討論區 - Hiendy.com 影音俱樂部 - Powered by Discuz!

I have followed your advice and turn off the auto ref and leave the dB as 0 without adjusted and higher or lower. Basically bypass the pre amp function of the RME and use it as a pure dac only. At the same time I leave Lumin volume control to On and adjusted it to 95/100. On the integrated amp side I basically turn the volume up to the point that I think it’s reasonable to listen not super loud or super low. Then I started to control the volume by using the Lumin app.

Now the sound quality was dramatically different than what I had mentioned when I first did the quick test. The soundstage is now much wider and vocal sounds much more analogue, instrument doesn’t sound dull and it sounds very analytical and musical.

This is an evaluation of Lumin X1 Leedh Processing Volume by Wesley Miaw of Neko Audio LLC:

I strongly prefer the new firmware with Leedh Processing Volume. There is less blurriness / quicker decay and less masking of sounds across the entire audible spectrum. The overall presentation is more balanced (more midrange presence compared to the old firmware)—I suspect because there is less distortion which was creating more noticeable additional energy in the bass and treble. With better detail retrieval and clarity, it is much easier to understand vocals and to hear minute details that were previously hidden.

That being said, I can imagine some people who do not listen to those things wondering where the bass went, having become used to or to expect more bass presence at the expense of accuracy and precision. And maybe also feeling like there’s less “air” because the treble has been cleaned up.

Sounds are more realistic with the new firmware.

My process was to listen to a minute or two from each track of my test playlist, sequentially, using the old firmware 12. I did this twice, to get acclimated to the old firmware sound and ensure it wasn’t just listening to a track a second time that was changing what I heard.

I then switched to the new firmware with Leedh Processing Volume and listened to each track again, sequentially, for a minute or two. Then switched back to the old firmware, and finally again to the new firmware as a final confirmation.

Lumin X1 -> Lumin AMP -> Magico M2. The volume was set at 55/100 the entire time. The main listening position is about 9’ from the speakers, arranged so my ears are on-axis with the tweeters. The top of the seat back is below my ears to minimize immediate reflections. Room is heavily treated so reflections are minimized. Rear surface is a blackout curtain about 5’ away from the main listening position.

Here is my test playlist. I use these tracks because they highlight / focus on specific things, and can reveal weaknesses.

Weight of the World / 壊レタ世界ノ歌
河野万里奈 NieR:Automata Original Soundtrack

神様のいうとおり
いしわたり淳治 & 砂原良徳 + やくしまるえつこ 神様のいうとおり

Cups (Pitch Perfect's “When I'm Gone”) (Pop Version)
Anna Kendrick Ultimate Pitch Perfect

ラビリンス (Album Mix)
MONDO GROSSO 何度でも新しく生まれる

1.618
BT This Binary Universe

The Demon God
Joe Hisaishi Princess Mononoke

Madder
Groove Armada Lovebox

Teardrop
Massive Attack Collected

Highly Strung
Orianthi Believe

goodblue
school food punishment amp-reflection

Force [Live]
Superfly Force

Prokofiev: Piano Concerto #2 In G Minor, Op. 16 - 3. Intermezzo: Allegro Moderato
Yuja Wang; Gustavo Dudamel: Simón Bolívar Symphony Orchestra Of Venezuela Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto #3; Prokofiev: Piano Concerto #2

기억 (Original Mix)
윤하 Someday

意味/無/ジュニーク・ニコール
SQUARE ENIX NieR:Automata Original Soundtrack

片翼の天使
植松伸夫 Distant Worlds: music from FINAL FANTASY

Magic Hour
Ahn Trio Lullaby For My Favourite Insomniac

Originally Posted by schmidtmike76

I’m still not getting it so I need it dumbed down.
1) can I unplug my bryston pre........and only use the Lumin mini (as a pre amp I’m guessing) volume to my Dac, and from my dac XLR outputs to my power amp inputs?
2) Do I need my Bryston pre for anything I only use the lumin as my source.

1. Yes, please try it and see if it sounds better or worse. Remember to start at a very low Lumin volume before playback.
2. No, you don't need the pre if you find bypassing the pre sounds better. If you like the SQ from the pre better, keep it.

Originally Posted by Audiofan57

I have a similar question. Since I already have my Classe Sigma SSP in digital bypass mode (when using the Lumin), and volume now set as pass through (again, only when using the Lumin to take advantage of Leedh), is my Classe now useless when the Lumin is in play?

If it sounds better than the Classe volume, then it's probably not needed in the chain for Lumin. As for your other reconfiguration options, you will need to experiment to find out the impact to SQ, if any.

From a Lumin U1 MINI user:

I bypassed Mytek's volume and used the Mini's volume. What a great feature to have! Not only is it very convenient, but it also sounds fantastic. Great resolution and no loss of SQ in general. If anything, I would say that with Leedh enabled, the system sounds great, and equally as dynamic, also at low volumes!!

This is the best digital volume control I have encountered! If I had not 2 analogue sources connected to my Manhattan II, I would definitely use the Mini's Leedh volume control all the time.

From a Lumin U1 MINI user: LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player - Page 104 - Networking, Networked Audio, and Streaming - Audiophile Style

Leedh digital volume has raised my system performance significantly. Overall clarity is very noticeably improved. Bass has much better ‘form’ and relationship with the overall frequency response. There is great life and rhythmic vitality in a natural unforced way without unwanted price paid. [Max] Volume is at 100% in settings and my amp pre volume set much higher than normal, and with the app circular Volume set to 60 I can listen comfortably down the hallway in the next room. Even thus removed from the system the improvements are clearly audible.

From a Lumin X1 user: LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player - Page 104 - Networking, Networked Audio, and Streaming - Audiophile Style

go directly to the front L/R monos directly. This change has enhanced my listening pleasure more than I could have imagined.
...

I've always thought that every preamplifier, line stage, etc. in existence, regardless of how good it is, has a sonic signature of its own, and I am closer to the "Lumin sound" than I was able to achieve in the past. I am particularly pleased with the noticeably increased "three-dimensionality" of the sound stage that the Lumin provides.

Finally, Leedh processing is also providing benefits over the standard volume control in the Lumin that I am thoroughly enjoying.

From a Lumin user: LUMIN firmware update: Version 13.0 (release date June 2nd 2020) - Network Audio - PS Audio

The LEEDH Processing technology is a game changer - great natural sounding music. Some may find that there is no need for a preamp. In my system I use my LTA MZ3 preamp because of the tonal quality it adds to the music. I set the volume controls of my DS DAC and MZ3 to their highest level and control volume using the LUMIN. The canon shots on the 1812 Overture are the clearest I’ve ever heard them.