Thread: Tube Rolling Update in latest balanced Golden Gate...

Originally Posted by wyan

I am a happy Big 7 owner.

You are good I think since I see others have ordered the tubes and starting to see shipment. I would call/email and place your order for a pair now before they all disappear .

Originally Posted by Crashem

You are good I think since I see others have ordered the tubes and starting to see shipment. I would call/email and place your order for a pair now before they all disappear .

Thanks. Will do.

Interesting. Friend of mine found me a WE274B with 310 date code at Japanese audio shop. Tested great and around $800USD. Had him buy it. So did I get a good deal? Seems like it given crazy prices on these guys.

Also, looked on japan yahoo auctions. Seems like there are a couple of other 274b on auction there for $800's USD. Anyone speak Japanese? Might want to look there if interested.

Out of curiosity, are WE 300B reissues (ie Westrex) considered better or worse than the originals? The impression I get from the Interwebs is that they might sound better but there is concern around reliability. Is that the general consensus?

Great to hear! Congrats... I cannot say on the WE 300B...but yes $800 is the going price for these WE 274B. The older etched base go from $1300 to $1700 or so


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Hi the reissues are nowhere as good. Even KR, EML mesh, and AVVT are better than the reissues, or the 90s issues. To get good WE 300b you need to go back to 70s and then they cost 5 to 10k USD

Anyone tried RCA UX-201A on big 7 and the impression? Thanks.

So if I am getting the Eml 45 mesh globes, what would be a next set of output tubes you guys would recommend to get? Let's assume WE300Bs are unobtainium for the moment.

Was thinking the KR PX-4.

Haven't tried the PX-4 but know one or two who have. Good sound I'm told but likely not better than the EML 45 globes. Also... I have had past reliability issues with my KR 300B's. To me, EML 45 globes are the better choice...


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Just got a bunch of rectifiers from Andy from vintage tube services. He is knowledgable as usual. He currently has a good selection of American tubes and rectifiers. Sadly what surprised me was how reasonable his prices are compared to others these days. For example those WWII rca Jan 5r4gy with the double V getter, he is charging $66.

also another good tube guy I know is getting in some WE274B in next week or two. $1100 each I think but he wasn't sure. Not cheap. Don't want to say who it is publicly so if interested PM me and I'll PM who it is.

Oh found source for those stc footscray rectifiers some of you love. 45 GBP

Comment from Marslo on WBF:

To be honest I prefer my 101D WE replicas. As alwyas in different setups it can be opposite. Lukasz was very much impressed by EML 45 ANN from the very first moment .
It can also depend on capacitors, I have Duelunds, Jupiter may sound different with EML.

That was his initial impression. From what I can see said, 101D replicas lean significantly in one end of the spectrum and he may like that. Also, don't think he did any rectifier matching/testing. I think we will have to wait for more people to get them and do some listening to see. Funny enough, I just got shipping notice on my EML 45 Mesh Globes, but nothing on the dac yet .

45 GBP is a steal for that tube if you are using non-300B tubes (I hate the tube with the 300b). Not sure where you found them.

Originally Posted by sfox7076

45 GBP is a steal for that tube if you are using non-300B tubes (I hate the tube with the 300b). Not sure where you found them.

PMs with info to those who asked. Yeah that is why I didn't want to post it on the Internet for all to see.

Porn!

btw, anyone willing to pay $1100 or so for we274b, pm me and I'll let you know which tube dealer is supposedly getting a few in next 10 days or so.

I am also so curious about takatsuki 274b. Was going to get that when the WE274b walked into my life for around same price. Could only find few/little comparisons between them.

I've heard great things about the Takasuki but have not had one in my rig... Not yet anyway

For me the WE 274B reigns... The 422 is great but soundstage is more narrow and centered... The WE 274B is my destination rectifier tube in the Lampi


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Hmm. Got the STC Footscray from that tube seller. However it turned out to be Brimar 5r4gy. Is this the right tube? Or do I need to write him? The internals look similar/same as the pictures I have seen of STC footscray.

Pictures attached.

I need good pictures of the getter and the support bars at the top below the mica. Brimar rose out of STC. Same maker. Factory is getter specific. Footscray is earlier. Brimar tubes usually lack the factory code as well. Mine are all military arrow STC offerings.

There is still some concern that these Brimar 5R4GY I received from the vendor, who quoted a STC 5R4GY/CV717 Footscray, are actually incorrect. Writing the tube vendor now. If you already ordered, I would express your concern as well. I'll let you guys know his response.

As I understand it, Footscray all had D getters (one on each side). See the getter on the attached. Oldway has the round getters. I like those tubes less.

Here is the Oldway STC labeled version. This is what you appear to have.

UYour oldway STC pictures didn't come through.

on positive side, I picked up my we274b from post office. Tests great and looks great. No way to check noise/microphonic though. I will say this. It was the best packed tube I have ever gotten. Japanese vendors do a great job packing. Double boxed with fitted protection throughout and taped so nicely I felt bad opening it up (took 5 minutes too).

Never heard of a microphonic rectifier. That said, I have not used much more than my ears to test the sound.

Haha good point. I guess my point is no way to do listening test at the moment with GG still incoming

Got a pair of UV71 rectifiers recently. Basically Westinghouse Canadian U52s. They are next on the testing list.

Shawn,

Mind posting pictures what the getters and top look like on the Footscray version look like?

Also talked to tube vendor, he said he assumed the Brimar were the Footscray version and that he would look for others of the D getters. Said he found one right away but no labels on it. He is going to look through more and should be getting some more soon. So your pictures will help.

Thanks!

I am going to first apologize for being methodical here.It is how I approach most things and usually, if you wade through it, you will learn something that you may be able to use to win at trivia, but will not change your life.Anyway, here goes.
So let’s talk the two labels (maybe more) that these came in. Standard Telephone Company of England (“STC”) was a subsidiary of Western Electric (“WE”) in the early part of the 20^th Century.As I understand it, WE was forced to sell STC at some point in the teens or twenties because of certain anti-trust issues.International Telephone and Telegraph (“ITT”) bought it.STC, in addition to being a telephone company, made tubes using WE’s specs and numbers for a while.You will find 4101D, 4300B and 4274B tubes floating around that are the equivalent of the WE 101D, 300B and 274B respectively.I have never heard any of them.I have done extensive research of the available information, pictures and literature because the cost of these do not justify the purchase. They trade for almost as much as their WE brethren (except maybe the 4274B).After looking at the construction of both, I believe the STC 4274B to be the same as the STC/BRIMAR 5R4GY anyway, so I would have no need to buy it unless they were the same price.The STC 4101D has always been a bit of a want for me, but I have never seen one outside a website picture (it is also numbered 3A/141A and CV1639) and would not pay the $3k many people seek for a pair (my WE 300Bs didn’t even cost that much).

Anyway, in the 1930s, after the sale to ITT, Brimar was formed as an additional part of STC group to manufacture American tubes for the British empire. Brimar literally means British Manufacture American Range. The entity appears to have just made tubes, but did so by using the then operating STC tube factories. The difference was merely the base and/or the writing on the glass. They made tubes under both labels until at least 1960 when STC’s tube manufacturing business and BRIMAR was sold to Thorn Electrical.In the tubes made in these periods, you will see plenty of identical tubes STC and Brimar with the only difference being the label and the way in which the date codes are used.I have not cracked the Brimar date or factory codes, so don’t ask.The STC labels seem to be rarer than Brimar labels.I think that is because STC may have only been used by telephone companies (but that is just my speculation).

The Footscray factory was one of the older factories used by STC/BRIMAR. The Footscray factory has a long history and was actually one of the tube factories studied by the United States in the mid-50s because of its reliability (if you ever want to read about tube reliability, this is a good read:https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/4647/bab7242.0001.001.txt?sequence=4 Basically we sent scientists from the University of Michigan to Europe to see why American tubes failed more.The US Army Signal Corps paid for it. Another good reliability read is this one published by the researchers at Footscray who made these tubes:http://www.clarisonus.com/Archives/TubeTheory/Trustworthy.pdfThey really defined good testing.I am sure todays tests don’t measure up to these). I am not sure whether Footscray was sold with STC to Thorn or not. However, sometime in the late 50s or early 60s, production of the 5R4GY we are going to talk about moved from Footscray to Oldway.

Anyway, I digress, so now that you know how we arrived here at the tubes. So we know there can be STC labeled tubes and Brimar tubes that are the same.The third category is the British broadarrow military tubes.These are the easiest to ID and the safest buys.They were made in the same factory, have been tested to military spec and have been labeled so that if there were failures, the military could easily trace the lots.I call that a score.So, now what to look for in a 5R4GY.

All of these tubes will have 5R4GY in a stop sign on the glass. It fades easy, but it will be there.The bases I have seen are dark brown and are not rounded (so more like an American tube and not the U52).

The military tubes are the easiest to ID because they have a lot of great data on the base. See here: http://www.tubecollector.org/documents/k1001/section4.pdf. There will be the British broadarrow on the left side.Below that will be the date code (first letter year next letter month).A is 1945, B 1946, etc.I and O were skipped.I have never seen a Footscray date code that begins with a letter past P (which is 1958).To the right the CV number is listed (CV717).Below that is the military spec code, which is always KB on these.Next is the factory code.FB = Footscray.FE = Oldway.So if you find a tube (like this pair http://www.ebay.com/itm/CV717-BRIMAR...wAAOSwu1VW3oh~) you are golden.

If not, we need another way to ID them.

First is the getter, which is definitive in my mind. These all have the D getters (two) at the base.They are hard to picture.The picture from yesterday is the best I have been able to take.There is just so much getter flashing you cannot see in so well.There are two identical D getters on opposite sides of the tube.I have never seen an Oldway tube with the D getters.The Oldway tubes have thicker metal getters that are in a horseshoe shape.



If I am doing this with pictures, I will look at the mica tops to confirm. Not so much what the mica looks like (they are all the same), but where the filaments are attached (you want them to be hanging) below the mica (1/2”-1”) by springs, not abutting the mica.Both Oldway and Footscray have this mica/filament combo, but later Oldway have the filament abutting the mica.

I then look at the internal support bars (the one’s outside the anode plates). The Footscray factory always have straight support bars.Oldway may have straight bars, but early on they crossed one of the support bars.See this picture. One on the right is crossd. Left is straight. OK, does that help?

Ridiculously useful info. Thanks again!

In my research I found this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Brimar-5R...p2047675.l2557 That is a sale of one of each. Getter flashing on the tube is not as full as my 3, so you can see the D getter better here. You can also see the horseshoe getter.

An el cheapo rectifier I can heartily recommend is the Haltron/Brimar/Mazda/Fivre ceramic spacer CV717/5R4GY. They are cheap and pretty easy to find for a good price. They have double mica with ceramic spacers at the top. Here is an example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5R4-CV717-HA...oAAOxyUylTRC3n Not sure who actually made them. I have seen them with each of the Haltron/Brimar/Mazda/Fivre labels. I have only ever seen them labeled made in Italy once. They could even be Russian for all I know. Anyway, I have also seen them with pan, D and circular getters. I don't own the D, but have the other 2. They sound the same and are awesome for the price.

Shawn

Found a WE restoration firm in Japan that stocks tubes and has these STC CV717. Price is dear though. pm if interested. I have that British firm that thought his Brimar 5r4gy were footscray find me a couple that seemed to match Shawn's description. Cheap enough to try again.

Originally Posted by Crashem

Cheap enough to try again.

Good luck. Just remember, I did not love them with my 300B output tubes. Put in 275As and it sounded heavenly. With the 300Bs, it was just too accurate. Became sterile.

Originally Posted by sfox7076

Good luck. Just remember, I did not love them with my 300B output tubes. Put in 275As and it sounded heavenly. With the 300Bs, it was just too accurate. Became sterile.

Thanks! Have a pair of 275A and another pair on the way!

Originally Posted by Crashem

Thanks! Have a pair of 275A and another pair on the way!

Actually up to 6 275A now. Great price on last pair and was hard to refuse.

was eyeing a 22s22 on eBay NIB. Jumped from $130 to $200 in last ten seconds. Then went from $200 to immediately jump to over $1000 at last 5 sec. Haahaa. So much for cheap.

Shawn, so I just got those 5r4gy from the same dealer who sold me the oldway tubes he said were footscray. These were two he could find with what he thought had correct characteristics. No labels on these tubes so going to rely on your expertise. Here are pictures.