Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

**Gopher** · June 11, 2015, 03:41 PM

Very pleasant surprise, Joe. DHL estimated delivery for tomorrow, but I just got in to my office to find your package had arrived!!

Madfloyd, I see your package is in NYC and is scheduled for delivery on Monday, but I'm hoping they get it to you tomorrow. DHL is good like that--we shall see.

**Mike** · June 11, 2015, 03:46 PM

That's awesome! Joe and Ian, you are both going to love your new Lampi's, I'm sure! Congrats. Can't wait to get your impressions. Don't forget to post pictures!

**wisnon** · June 11, 2015, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Radiohead

I've used the following tubes in my 2 box Lampi 7.

Sovtek 2A3 - Great dynamics, but otherwise noisy and horrible. Score: 5/10
Sophia Electric 300B carbon 2.5v - Big and bold sound, huge soundstage and dynamics. May be a slight roll of at the top. But overall very good sound. However, it was a very noisy tube when I play music loud. I'd have kept it otherwise. Score: 8.5/10
EML 2A3 Mesh - One very kind audiophile (Luan) shipped me this and some other tubes to try with my Lampi. They were big sounding with good soundstage and dynamics. However, I thought they were little harsh at the top. But this was a while ago and my system was going through a bit of changes. But I wasn't impressed. Score: 7/10
Ken Rad 2A3 - I got a chance to try this tube courtesy of Luan. They are my favorite so far. Very organic sounding. Had decent bass and extension. Thick sounding but still very articulate. No harshness at all. Very musical. They might be little slow than say SE 300B or EML 2A3 but it didn't bother me and I listen to a lot of rock music. Score: 9/10
National Union 45 - Very musical. Smaller soundstage than SE 300B but adequate. It's not that big sounding with huge dynamics either. But overall very balanced sound. Very quiet tubes. They have a sweetness in the upper range. Given their price ($125 or so) they are one of the best bargain. Score: 8.5/10
Sylvania 6A3 - They are not as quiet as National Union 45 but otherwise shares the similar sweetness and balanced attributes that I've mentioned about NU 45. But in addition to that 6A3 is bigger sounding and with more 3D soundstage. In my setup they are very noisy at 2A3 position but more dynamic. In 45 position they are quieter and more mellow. Score: 8.5/10

I'm in the process of selling my tubes to fund EML 45 purchase. I'm trying to decide between EML mesh vs solid plate. If I didn't listen to rock music a lot, mesh plate would have been a clear winner. I hope to hear comparison from Wisnon about solid plate vs mesh plate.

Virtually all the tubes will be ultra quiet in balanced confifg, due to the differential summator circuit which apparently increases dynamics and cancels out noise.

I will try to check out mesh vs sold plate this weekend and let you know my opinion.

Based on your description above and the expectation that the Bal Dac cancels out inherent tube noise, the 6A3 sems to be a winner. At $50-75 each for NEW virgin NOS tubes, a matched quad could be had for even $200 and with the inherent sweetness, added dynamics, and noise eliminated, it will be hard to beat. However, you would need a reputable dealer with trustworthy testing equipment to ensure the matching. Mesh plate EML will be new production and will be matched by default. Choices, choices...

**wisnon** · June 11, 2015, 04:22 PM

Myself, I have to really get down to comparing the EML mesh vs solid, NU 45 vs the rest, UX301, Cheapo 101d, various vintage 6a3/6b4g, cunningham CX345 globes, 2a3, and other 45 tubes PLUS the vintage WE ST shape 101d.

No 300b in my stash at all though...

**madfloyd** · June 11, 2015, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Gopher

Very pleasant surprise, Joe. DHL estimated delivery for tomorrow, but I just got in to my office to find your package had arrived!!

Madfloyd, I see your package is in NYC and is scheduled for delivery on Monday, but I'm hoping they get it to you tomorrow. DHL is good like that--we shall see.

Ooooh, that would be awesome...!

**wisnon** · June 11, 2015, 04:34 PM

Hi Ian, is yours the Silver faced SE B7?

Could it be the one in that picture?

Fingers crossed for early delivery...

**joeinid** · June 11, 2015, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Gopher

Very pleasant surprise, Joe. DHL estimated delivery for tomorrow, but I just got in to my office to find your package had arrived!!

Madfloyd, I see your package is in NYC and is scheduled for delivery on Monday, but I'm hoping they get it to you tomorrow. DHL is good like that--we shall see.

Awesome, I should have it tonight after work. Can't wait.

**Mike** · June 11, 2015, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Awesome, I should have it tonight after work. Can't wait.

**joeinid** · June 11, 2015, 04:51 PM

Fred! Thanks again. Will reach out when I have an ETA.

**madfloyd** · June 11, 2015, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

Hi Ian, is yours the Silver faced SE B7?

Could it be the one in that picture?

Fingers crossed for early delivery...

Yes, mine is silver SE B7 and Fred sent me that pic, saying that I got the new chassis and that it had shipped. So maybe it was mine.

**Alpinist** · June 11, 2015, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by madfloyd

Yes, mine is silver SE B7 and Fred sent me that pic, saying that I got the new chassis and that it had shipped. So maybe it was mine.

Congrats Ian!!! You are a lucky man. One of the first aluminum chassis, perfect timing. I'm thinking about a Lampi SE Big 7 for myself sometime next year. When I learned that my Soulution 520 preamp is an unbalanced design, my decision (balanced vs. SE) became so much easier.

Best of luck,
Ken

**Gopher** · June 12, 2015, 12:01 AM

LampizatOr NA is officially working summer hours.

We've got a 1AM appointment scheduled for Joe's pickup... stay tuned!

**joeinid** · June 12, 2015, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by Gopher

LampizatOr NA is officially working summer hours.

We've got a 1AM appointment scheduled for Joe's pickup... stay tuned!

Thank you Fred! That was awesome of you to meet me. It will be a fun night ahead. Just got home!

**joeinid** · June 12, 2015, 03:55 AM

Holy cow!

Nowhere near optomized nor broken in and it sounds wonderful. Jupiter caps installed.

Fred, I owe you a big hug. Thank you.

**Alpinist** · June 12, 2015, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Holy cow!

Nowhere near optomized nor broken in and it sounds wonderful. Jupiter caps installed.

Fred, I owe you a big hug. Thank you.

Congrats Joe! She's a beauty. Great to hear that you are already getting wonderful sound. Keep us posted as you go through the break-in process and when you get your amps too.

Best,
Ken

**MDP** · June 12, 2015, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Holy cow!

Nowhere near optomized nor broken in and it sounds wonderful. Jupiter caps installed.

Fred, I owe you a big hug. Thank you.

Uh oh.................No sleep for Joe!

**madfloyd** · June 12, 2015, 10:07 AM

To anyone who knows:

Is this the DHL equivalent of "Out for delivery"?

BOSTON, MA - USA, totalPieces 1, pIds [ JD014600001417086582 ]
Fri 6/12/2015 9:49 am
With delivery courier

**sfox7076** · June 12, 2015, 10:28 AM

It is. German's... I love the look of the balanced version. I have SE because I have SE all around (my Concert Fidelity pre really drives the decision there). I guess I really love the detail of the 101Ds combined with my 1625 based amps. My jupiter caps in those have just broken all the way in. The sound is heavenly. I have actually using my Western Electric 101Ds (ST shape for now, will pop in the golf balls soon) instead of my 275As. I actually have a quad of the actual Western Electric 275As (direct 2A3 replacement). Wonder what that would sound like in the balanced Lampi. Once again, I am glad I have an SE DAC as my tube buying was out of control enough... I would try a Sylvania 274b if you can find one. They are cheapish ($100-150) and sound amazing.

**Gopher** · June 12, 2015, 10:36 AM

Joe,

Cool to finally meet in person and I'm glad you were able to get up and running last night.

Originally Posted by madfloyd

To anyone who knows:

Is this the DHL equivalent of "Out for delivery"?

BOSTON, MA - USA, totalPieces 1, pIds [ JD014600001417086582 ]
Fri 6/12/2015 9:49 am
With delivery courier

I think you may be in luck! I've had many DHL status read that all day and thought they wouldn't arrive, only to have the driver pull up with package in hand.

**Steve** · June 12, 2015, 11:05 AM

Beast of a box Joe. Looks like I need to add another double rack shelf...

Congrats! Look forward to your further impressions.

**Mike** · June 12, 2015, 11:11 AM

Explain to me again, exactly what tube types are approved in the Balanced Lampi?

Joe - congrats and welcome to LampiLand.

**Dewster** · June 12, 2015, 11:17 AM

Congrats on the new addition Joe..

**joeinid** · June 12, 2015, 11:34 AM

Thank you Steve, thank you Dewey.

This Lampi has what I'm looking for in a DAC. I need to listen more to describe what I'm hearing but the vocals are absolutely amazing and there's clarity with sweetness. I knew from hearing other systems what I was getting into, it feels great to finally have one in my system.

Fred,

It was a supreme pleasure meeting you. Thanks again.

**wisnon** · June 12, 2015, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by sfox7076

It is. German's... I love the look of the balanced version. I have SE because I have SE all around (my Concert Fidelity pre really drives the decision there). I guess I really love the detail of the 101Ds combined with my 1625 based amps. My jupiter caps in those have just broken all the way in. The sound is heavenly. I have actually using my Western Electric 101Ds (ST shape for now, will pop in the golf balls soon) instead of my 275As. I actually have a quad of the actual Western Electric 275As (direct 2A3 replacement). Wonder what that would sound like in the balanced Lampi. Once again, I am glad I have an SE DAC as my tube buying was out of control enough... I would try a Sylvania 274b if you can find one. They are cheapish ($100-150) and sound amazing.

Well, if Long Island is not too far away, perhaps an audio get together can be arranged and you take along tubes to try out...quads and rectis....

Sylvania 274B?? Hmmm

The mesh plate is being burnt in at home. I forgot how big the EML mushrooms are. The WE 101d (ST) is tiny in comparison.

Going thru my stash last night, I forgot I have 5z4 and 5v4 rectis to try, as well as type 80 and 83v (mercury vapour tubes that work with base adapters). The barn guy sells those for only $10 a piece and Greg in the UK loves them!

**wisnon** · June 12, 2015, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Explain to me again, exactly what tube types are approved in the Balanced Lampi?

Joe - congrats and welcome to LampiLand.

Basically lower wattage...the SE "45" setting, This means below 4.5W, ie volts times amps.

45 setting is for 101d and all the 45 triode classes like 45, UX245, CX345, UX301, and perhaps a few more. The 6A3 technically should be on the 2A3 higher setting, BUT many found it worked better on the 45 setting. this is how it was a few months back, so unless thins changed, that should still apply.

**Steve** · June 12, 2015, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

Well, if Long Island is not too far away, perhaps an audio get together can be arranged and you take along tubes to try out...quads and rectis....

Sylvania 274B?? Hmmm

The mesh plate is being burnt in at home. I forgot how big the EML mushrooms are. The WE 101d (ST) is tiny in comparison.

Going thru my stash last night, I forgot I have 5z4 and 5v4 rectis to try, as well as type 80 and 83v (mercury vapour tubes that work with base adapters). The barn guy sells those for only $10 a piece and Greg in the UK loves them!

Norman....you raise an interesting question. If I were to add a rack shelf, what sort of shelf clearance height is necessary for the tubes you are talking about rolled onto a B7 or GG balanced Lampi?

**wisnon** · June 12, 2015, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Thank you Steve, thank you Dewey.

This Lampi has what I'm looking for in a DAC. I need to listen more to describe what I'm hearing but the vocals are absolutely amazing and there's clarity with sweetness. I knew from hearing other systems what I was getting into, it feels great to finally have one in my system.

Fred,

It was a supreme pleasure meeting you. Thanks again.

Joe, start thinking about a quad of EML 45 mesh and if you can swing it, a quad of PSVANE WE replica 101d, to replace the treasure series you have.

Then get the 5r4gy like Mike said and perhaps a U52 mullar/cossor/brimar or a "fat bottle" GZ37 and you will be set!

The WE replica 101d is not a must, as that leans to detail and you weakness for sweetness. LoL

**sfox7076** · June 12, 2015, 12:26 PM

You need a minimum of 14 to 15 total from the bottom of the DAC to the shelf above.

I would not be opposed to a meet up to try tubes. I am ordering a 5R4Y. I didn't the 83 would work with the adapter. That's an old television tube trick. They would put one in place of a 5U4 to push the CRT life. That said, because the sets and the electronics were so poor back then, the caps would often get pushed to hard, blow up and your move to save the cost of the tube blew the entire TV. Tolerances are better now. The mercury vapor rectifiers look awesome, but with kids in the house, I am not going to use one.

Shawn

**Mike** · June 12, 2015, 12:31 PM

Joe, I recommend a matched quad of National Union (made by RCA) FT Shape 45's.

**joeinid** · June 12, 2015, 12:31 PM

Shawn,

Are you in Charlotte, North Carolina?

**wisnon** · June 12, 2015, 12:31 PM

Yes, I would say 15 inches, given that the Elrogs and the EML anniversary globes are even bigger than the 45.

Indeed, i would have the Lampi on top of any rack, no matter if its one layer or several.

Shawn, i agree if you have small kids with wandering amps, stay away from Mercury vapour tubes. Still, i only plan to use them in an actuve session, not to leave them in there permanently...I also handle them with kids gloves.

**joeinid** · June 12, 2015, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Joe, I recommend a matched quad of National Union (made by RCA) FT Shape 45's.

Brent have these?

**wisnon** · June 12, 2015, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Shawn,

Are you in Charlotte, North Carolina?

NY area, i think.

**wisnon** · June 12, 2015, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Joe, I recommend a matched quad of National Union (made by RCA) FT Shape 45's.

Agreed...how could I forget that!

**sfox7076** · June 12, 2015, 12:33 PM

I am in Brooklyn. Charlotte is where my computer routes through (my law firm has a huge office there).

My tube guy has a lot of the 5R4GYs. Is there a preferred brand?

**wisnon** · June 12, 2015, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Brent have these?

Should be.

ALSO, get a quad of 6a3 NOS. Cheap and will surprise you. They should be dead quiet in the summator circuit you have.

This guy has doubled his 6a3 prices though...you could ask for a quad discount?

http://www.tejastubes.com/

**joeinid** · June 12, 2015, 12:37 PM

My head is spinning

**wisnon** · June 12, 2015, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by sfox7076

I am in Brooklyn. Charlotte is where my computer routes through (my law firm has a huge office there).

My tube guy has a lot of the 5R4GYs. Is there a preferred brand?

GE/RCA JAN specs.

**wisnon** · June 12, 2015, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

My head is spinning

Easy Joe, just get one set at a time, and try to get some demos from pals beforehand to guage your tastes...

**Mike** · June 12, 2015, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Brent have these?

Yes.

**FlexibleAudio** · June 12, 2015, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Joe,

If I go for a Big 7 next year, it will probably be the SE version because it turns out my Soulution 520 Preamp is unbalanced through its XLR inputs. Cyrill Hammer said they could detect no audible difference between balanced and unbalanced, so they went for the less complicated unbalanced design. Based on the amount of jazz vocals I listen to, the Dueland copper or Jensen copper caps would probably work best for me, to provide a beautiful midrange. Elrog 300B or EML 45 Mesh output tubes for the same reason.

Ken

There you go Ken!!

**FlexibleAudio** · June 12, 2015, 01:29 PM

Congrats Joe! It sure is cool looking. I much prefer the aluminum to the original B7 box (although the GG copper is my fav). I am really curious to get your thought s on PCM. Lucasz's DSD is quite singular in its exceptionalism (both sound and approach); nothing I have heard quite compares in the digital domain. But I still haven't decided if PCM would be in the cards for me via Lampi when I do digital. Enjoy!

**wisnon** · June 12, 2015, 03:28 PM

Joe, hold your horses. Dont buy any new output DHT tubes yet. Stick with what you have and only roll the RECTIFIER tube.

45 triodes WONT work…that was old info. Just called Poland and that was confirmed to me. Tomorrow he will test to see what else can work with the current design.
So message is ONLY 101d possible, at least for the moment!!!!

**Mike** · June 12, 2015, 03:46 PM

No 45's, no 300b's, no 2A3's? Hmmm....

**wisnon** · June 12, 2015, 04:11 PM

Will soon update you with what I know Mike!

**Mike** · June 12, 2015, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

Will soon update you with what I know Mike!

Thanks Norman.

**wisnon** · June 12, 2015, 04:35 PM

OK guys:

First off, apologies for misleading you with old info and bad understanding. I, like everyone else initially read that it was 101d and 45 and NO 300B, etc. I used my SE Dac tube understanding to wrongly extrapolate.

Balanced comes with different challenges, with heat emission/dissipation being a big new one. I can say with my current understanding of the tech mumbo-jumbo, that definitely 45 triode and 2a3 will definitely NOT work in the current design (just too hot)! It IS possible that 300b and 6a3 will work in Joe's Dac, but with certain caveats. 6A3 has a near perfect voltage/amp profile for the circuit power supply, but the tube underheated in the current setup and "should" not sound good according to Lukasz. HOWEVER, he said the same for SE and advised people to switch to 2a3 setting (high), BUT most, if not all said they preferred 6A3 run on the 45 setting (low) where it certainly would be under heated. The tradeoff is that with constant under heating, tube life theoretically suffers in an amp, but as this is run at preamp levels, it may not be a big deal…especially as 6A3 is relatively cheap and plentiful.

300b should be heated close to optimally and theoretically run a bit cooler than the approved 101d in balanced config. He will test in the next few days to ensure its a safe swap out and will let me know by text and I will keep you all up to date on what I hear.

The whole issue is about voltage drop from power supply and consequent wasted wattage dissipated as heat.

I guess in the future he can work on a different enclosure design or some other innovation to get more rolling flexibility, but I would not held my breath on that one (redesign/new supplier sourcing and qualification/prototying, etc will take time and that is IF he thinks it makes sense to go in that direction). Besides, 101d comes as Treasure series and WE replica new production, so recti roll plus metal base replicas is already great flexibility. 300b seems on paper safe to me subject to Lukasz verification, but I cant guarantee how they will sound in the Bal circuit today. i expect they will sound good though, as the "setting" point seems to be between the old high and low setting, and the voltage drop to 300b is slightly better than for the 101d.

For general info on electrical parameters, see below:
101d= 4.5x1.5 (volts times amps)
45 = 2.5x1.5
300b = 5.0x1.2
6A3 = 6.3x 1.0

I hope this post has enuff clarity for everyone concerned???

**Mike** · June 12, 2015, 04:39 PM

Norman - if he gets 300b's to work in the balanced, that will be huge.

**wisnon** · June 12, 2015, 04:47 PM

Yup, I let him know that guys like you and Andy LOVE your Elrogs and want 300b as a DEFINITE option. when he was explaining the techie stuff, I recalled that 300b was not THAT different to 101 in terms of volts and so even he agreed that it may not be an issue, but typical engineer, he needs to test and verify in the real world. Likely tomorrow, as 300b guys are always insistent…especially in the Far East. LoL Elrog 300b is a high roller tube, as a quad will be 25hundred bucks…!!

**joeinid** · June 12, 2015, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

Joe, hold your horses. Dont buy any new output DHT tubes yet. Stick with what you have and only roll the RECTIFIER tube.

45 triodes WON'T work…that was old info. Just called Poland and that was confirmed to me. Tomorrow he will test to see what else can work with the current design.
So message is ONLY 101d possible, at least for the moment!!!!

Thanks Norman, we'll talk over the weekend.

Thread: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Re: Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

Posting Permissions