Balanced Lampi Dac - Joe you are famous now

**Mike** · June 19, 2015, 07:07 PM

I'll try it. What I've heard is that with a decent USB cable - especially one with built in filtration - you don't hear a difference.

**wisnon** · June 19, 2015, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Radiohead

I received my REGEN amber last night. I was able to listen for about 1.5 hour and with stock switching psu. Holy f**king sh*t. This is at least as good as improvement from going from a crappy Sovtek 2A3 tubes to EML or even more. I don't know if it'll sound even better with time. But I'm waiting for my linear PSU to arrive that I'll use to power the REGEN. According to feedbacks from computeraudiophile, linear PSU should further increase the sound quality.

As much as I love my Lampi, I don't think the amanero based USB input does justice to its capability. Maybe that's why REGEN has such an incredible positive impact if using USB input. But then again, everyone is reporting how awesome REGEN is with all sorts of dac. All I know that, anyone using Lampi should try the REGEN before reaching for the uber tubes.

Told ya! Been telling everyone since April Regen green with Corning and stock SMPS. Waiting on Amber upgrade now…to test with standard USB cable.

**wisnon** · June 19, 2015, 07:07 PM

deleted…duplication

**wisnon** · June 19, 2015, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

I'll try it. What I've heard is that with a decent USB cable - especially one with built in filtration - you don't hear a difference.

With the Green, Corning optical usb was needed…More bang for the buck that LPSU. Apparently, the Amber doesn't need or even like the Corning. All the Lampi rejecters only tried the green, Ambers are very new.

**wisnon** · June 19, 2015, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

I'll try it. What I've heard is that with a decent USB cable - especially one with built in filtration - you don't hear a difference.

Even if true, which such cable only costs $175?

**joeinid** · June 19, 2015, 07:14 PM

USB REGEN ? UpTone Audio

Am I missing something? I don't see Amber or Green. Only one model. Am I looking at the right product?

**wisnon** · June 19, 2015, 07:17 PM

Green is only the first 100 sold, been superseded by the Amber. Only Amber now sold…better than the Green.

**Alpinist** · June 19, 2015, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

USB REGEN ? UpTone Audio

Am I missing something? I don't see Amber or Green. Only one model. Am I looking at the right product?

Hi Joe,

Yes, I believe you are. I believe there is only one model. They probably updated their original offering.

Ken

**joeinid** · June 19, 2015, 07:24 PM

Ok, thank you Ken/Norman. I am inline for the current model (Amber, I suspect). Cool!

**Radiohead** · June 19, 2015, 07:49 PM

Eurodriver reported jaw dropping improvement using the previous version of REGEN with big 7 on CA:

UpTone Audio Regen Listening Impressions - Page 10

I've definitely read feedback where someone mentioned improved sound quality using REGEN with totaldac d1 usb cable (which has filter).

My HiDiamond USB cable doesn't use filter but is considered one of the very best USB cable by few. Someone I know compared HiDiamond USB cable with the best offerings from Synergistics, Audioquest, Wireworld, Prana and HiDiamond came on top.

I guess something else might be at play here regarding REGEN and Amanero USB. Is it system synergy, source setup, personal preference -- no idea.

**Elberoth** · June 20, 2015, 03:16 AM

Those that like the Regen with Lampi (Eurodriver, wisnon) are using it with the Corning Optical cable. This cable adds a few ohms of the resistance on the ground, which is what Regen makers believe improves the sound of Regen.

(Coring, even though it is an optical wire, still has a very thin electrical wires built in to carry +5V and Ground; since cables are very thin and long, they add a considerable resistance; Regen Amber design simply adds an extra series resistor on its ground connection with a computer, to emulate what Corning cable is doing).

**wisnon** · June 20, 2015, 05:04 AM

You may be right Adam.

Plus, as you said your Server is so cutting edge…(I think it blows away most any commercial Server in terms of sheer spec) that its a tall order to improve the SI going into the Dc's USB receiver. To me the Regen is a similar concept to what the digi-lampizator circuit did for Spdif:
CD Transport Digi-Lampizator

**Elberoth** · June 20, 2015, 06:51 AM

For the record - I like the regen on my Trinity DAC a lot. I use the same server, the same filtered TotalDAC D1 USB cable, and the improvement is there with no downside.

It may be that the Lampi's Amanero USB board and Amber Green do not gel together.

**FlexibleAudio** · June 20, 2015, 10:38 AM

If your packets ain't dirty to start with the regen does little; if they are a mess it does a great deal to clean up the situation before they pollutes the pdn in the dac. If you don't hear a difference it doesn't mean the regen isn't a great product, it may just mean you got some clean packets from the start.

If Lucasz ever gets the i2s connection figured out all of this will be moot.

**wisnon** · June 20, 2015, 03:20 PM

That would not explain how it works better with the Trinity, since both packets are from the same source!! Same front end,.

In any case, its not JUST about being dirty, as it is about low SI. You can SEE the SI quality via oscilloscope from the digi-lampi link I sent before.

The pre-processors are working too hard to square up the incoming digital signal and that creates internal noise in the PHY…that is the working hypothesis, but NO ONE has the full picture.

**Elberoth** · June 20, 2015, 05:19 PM

The Regen improves both the Lampi and Trinity DAC. The problem is, with Lampi, there is also a downside.

**wisnon** · June 20, 2015, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

The Regen improves both the Lampi and Trinity DAC. The problem is, with Lampi, there is also a downside.

You also run balanced, no?

When will you get the Amber? Mine is at Swiss customs, so next Monday/tuesday I expect.

**madfloyd** · June 20, 2015, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

The Regen improves both the Lampi and Trinity DAC. The problem is, with Lampi, there is also a downside.

What's the downside?

**Elberoth** · June 20, 2015, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

You also rn blanaced, no?

When will you get the Amber? Mine is at Swiss customs, so next Monday/tuesday I expect.

No idea. I didn't get the tracking yet. Probably Alex doesn't like me anymore

**Elberoth** · June 20, 2015, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by madfloyd

What's the downside?

A certain prceived thinnes of sound.

**Radiohead** · June 20, 2015, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by FlexibleAudio

If Lucasz ever gets the i2s connection figured out all of this will be moot.

I thought someone (was that you?) sent Lukasz a Rendu to so that he can do some R&D for I2S input. I believe having a I2S input would be a very good addition on Lampi dac.

**madfloyd** · June 20, 2015, 10:25 PM

Anyone know of a place to purchase 101d Psvane replicas?

**Mike** · June 20, 2015, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by madfloyd

Anyone know of a place to purchase 101d Psvane replicas?

http://grantfidelity.com/site/

Ask for Rachel

**FlexibleAudio** · June 21, 2015, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

That would not explain how it works better with the Trinity, since both packets are from the same source!! Same front end,.

Could be the difference in the grounds of each respective dac??

Originally Posted by wisnon

In any case, its not JUST about being dirty, as it is about low SI. You can SEE the SI quality via oscilloscope from the digi-lampi link I sent before.

The pre-processors are working too hard to square up the incoming digital signal and that creates internal noise in the PHY…that is the working hypothesis, but NO ONE has the full picture.

I am sorry Norman but I was not distinguishing between a "dirty" incoming signal integrity and what you refer to as "low SI" in my terminology. Rather I (just as John Swenson does) was referring to noise elimination (be it in the ground plane, power supply or on top of the digital signal) as the mechanism for improving the final SI the dac sees. Eliminating this noise avoids modulation of the usb FYI at the 8khz packet rate and wideband which was John's purpose as opposed to Lukasz's focus which was using a buffer in a traditional sense to get all of the obvious benefits of reduced output impedance. Not the same IMO.

**FlexibleAudio** · June 21, 2015, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Radiohead

I thought someone (was that you?) sent Lukasz a Rendu to so that he can do some R&D for I2S input. I believe having a I2S input would be a very good addition on Lampi dac.

Yes, that was me but I put the process on hold to focus on my analog front end after spending a day at AXPONA with the GG and B7 (and to wait for things to stabilize on this front at Lampi and the marketplace generally).

**wisnon** · June 23, 2015, 12:19 PM

[QUOTE=FlexibleAudio;133294]Could be the difference in the grounds of each respective dac??[/QUOTE]

Yes, you could be right about that...though it may be the grounding of the USB module, as opposed to the Dac or overal Dac impedance which JS said should be as low as possible.

[QUOTE]
I am sorry Norman but I was not distinguishing between a "dirty" incoming signal integrity and what you refer to as "low SI" in my terminology. Rather I (just as John Swenson does) was referring to noise elimination (be it in the ground plane, power supply or on top of the digital signal) as the mechanism for improving the final SI the dac sees. Eliminating this noise avoids modulation of the usb FYI at the 8khz packet rate and wideband which was John's purpose as opposed to Lukasz's focus which was using a buffer in a traditional sense to get all of the obvious benefits of reduced output impedance. Not the same IMO.[/QUOTE]

Maybe, but I dont think Lukasz implemented the Digi-lampi just as a buffer. indeed, he only has theories as to WHY the digital signal is squared up. No certain explanation.

Again, JS is clear that he is NOT eliminating upstream noise per se, that is NOT his prime intention....he is rather regenerating the signal (at Dac USB entry location) to have high signal integrity and low noise/low jitter/proper grounding/impedance matching, etc are just necessary but by themselves not sufficient conditions. All this is to prevent the PHY from stressing out and generating its OWN noise in the USB receiver that is passed up the chain to the Dac chip and other sensitive components. Upstream noise is NOT passed via PHY, but rather the PHY creates new noise in the face of low SI. MAC noise is NOT dealt with and exists untouched.

We might indeed be saying the same thing with different terminology, however.

**FlexibleAudio** · June 23, 2015, 10:10 PM

[QUOTE=wisnon;133478]

Originally Posted by FlexibleAudio

Could be the difference in the grounds of each respective dac??[/QUOTE]

Yes, you could be right about that...though it may be the grounding of the USB module, as opposed to the Dac or overal Dac impedance which JS said should be as low as possible.

[QUOTE]
I am sorry Norman but I was not distinguishing between a "dirty" incoming signal integrity and what you refer to as "low SI" in my terminology. Rather I (just as John Swenson does) was referring to noise elimination (be it in the ground plane, power supply or on top of the digital signal) as the mechanism for improving the final SI the dac sees. Eliminating this noise avoids modulation of the usb FYI at the 8khz packet rate and wideband which was John's purpose as opposed to Lukasz's focus which was using a buffer in a traditional sense to get all of the obvious benefits of reduced output impedance. Not the same IMO.[/QUOTE]

Maybe, but I dont think Lukasz implemented the Digi-lampi just as a buffer. indeed, he only has theories as to WHY the digital signal is squared up. No certain explanation.

Again, JS is clear that he is NOT eliminating upstream noise per se, that is NOT his prime intention....he is rather regenerating the signal (at Dac USB entry location) to have high signal integrity and low noise/low jitter/proper grounding/impedance matching, etc are just necessary but by themselves not sufficient conditions. All this is to prevent the PHY from stressing out and generating its OWN noise in the USB receiver that is passed up the chain to the Dac chip and other sensitive components. Upstream noise is NOT passed via PHY, but rather the PHY creates new noise in the face of low SI. MAC noise is NOT dealt with and exists untouched.

We might indeed be saying the same thing with different terminology, however.

Yes, I think we are saying the same thing.

**FlexibleAudio** · June 26, 2015, 10:51 PM

Madfloyd,

I would love to get your thoughts on how your Lampi compares to your MPD-5......

**bonzo** · June 27, 2015, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by FlexibleAudio

Madfloyd,

I would love to get your thoughts on how your Lampi compares to your MPD-5......

If interested also check with Joaovieira on what's best forum, he and a friend of his moved from MPD-5 to B7

**bzr** · June 27, 2015, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by madfloyd

Anyone know of a place to purchase 101d Psvane replicas?

These are legit, the same as Mikes referral but direct. Hover your cursor over shop.
Psvane & Shuguang Treasure Audio Tubes, Caps and Amps | Manufacturer Authorized Worldwide 5A Standard Re-seller
Lukasz gets a mention here...

WE101D-: ?That particular set of bulbs will make you go bunkers, really? | Psvane & Shuguang Treasure Audio Tubes, Caps and Amps

**madfloyd** · June 27, 2015, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by FlexibleAudio

Madfloyd,

I would love to get your thoughts on how your Lampi compares to your MPD-5......

Hi Paul,

Your request has good timing. It's my plan to do some serious comparisons this weekend between the Lampi, the MSB Analog and my PBD-5.

I received the balance of my Viero cables on Monday and have been breaking them in all week along with the Lampi which now has 2 full weeks on it. I don't have all the tubes I would like to have on hand to conduct a fair test (one of the 6A3s shipped with the unit was defective) so all I have (and have heard thus far) are 2 different brands of 2A3s and 1 brand of 101Ds.

With this in mind, I'll do my best.

**FlexibleAudio** · June 27, 2015, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by madfloyd

Hi Paul,

Your request has good timing. It's my plan to do some serious comparisons this weekend between the Lampi, the MSB Analog and my PBD-5.

I received the balance of my Viero cables on Monday and have been breaking them in all week along with the Lampi which now has 2 full weeks on it. I don't have all the tubes I would like to have on hand to conduct a fair test (one of the 6A3s shipped with the unit was defective) so all I have (and have heard thus far) are 2 different brands of 2A3s and 1 brand of 101Ds.

With this in mind, I'll do my best.

Awesome! If I were going to put a third dac in the mix for comparison it would be the Analog. How fortunate. I look forward to your findings.

**FlexibleAudio** · July 1, 2015, 10:04 PM

Madfloyd,

Any news on your comparison between the PBD-5 and Lampi?

**sfox7076** · July 1, 2015, 10:49 PM

Don't think MadFloyd will be writing more in this thread.

**FlexibleAudio** · July 1, 2015, 10:55 PM

Ah...thanks sfox. I just saw why.

**joeinid** · July 27, 2015, 07:37 PM

Are my 15 minutes over?

**Alpinist** · July 27, 2015, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Are my 15 minutes over?

With a balanced Golden Gate coming, not a chance!

Ken

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