Atlantic DAC - Incoming

**MicJames** · November 5, 2016, 02:51 PM

Wisnon, was the DSD comparison both at 256 or was one 256 and other 512? Since both are "chip less" in that only a low-pass filter is applied, it seems odd that such a dramatic difference would be present at the same sample rate.

**wisnon** · November 6, 2016, 04:12 AM

we only did native rate playback at 64/128/256. Nothing at 512, native or up sampled.

**Christophs** · November 6, 2016, 10:31 AM

Hi there
I think I can bring some more insight to these matters.
The Atlantic vs. Der Siebner took place at my home and I still have the Atlantic here. In fact, I'm listening to it right now

As Norman said, this Atlantic has two engines. The stock R2R PCM AND DSD up to DSD256 capable autoswitching engine and an additional chipless DSD only engine, capable up to DSD512.

When Norman and some more folks were here, we compared the two engines with native DSD material and for us, in my system and to our ears, the chipless engine sounded better than the R2R combined PCM and DSD engine.
After Lukasz told Norman that he preferred the R2R engine over the chipless with DSD, I got curious and intensly tested again, this time also with redbook upconverted to DSD256 with HQPlayer and I still prefer the chipless engine. Again, this is in my system with my transport.
Btw. there are absolutely NO clicks, bumps, thumps or other noises when switching from one Engine to the other and absolute silence when you try to play PCM via the DSD only engine.
I would go so far to call that part idiotproof

To summarize my experiences with this absolutely outstanding DAC, I would recommend the following:
I would definitely go with the tube rectification, for me it sounded so much better than with the solid state recti that imho it's a no-brainer.

superclocks are a must order.

And here come the variables:
If you want to geek out, already have a capable PC with HQPlayer and want the best possible sound on a budget, I would go DSD only with the chipless DSD engine and upconvert everything to DSD256 or DSD512, depending on the power of your PC.

If you want a family friendly (=foolproof) DAC that sounds excellent without hassle and worries, but are on a budget, you should order the R2R PCM and DSD256 capable autoswitch engine.

If you can afford both engines, you can have it all: hassle free listening in very high quality for the family AND geek out on the quest for the last percent of sonic nirvana.

For me, tube recti and superclocks were not negotiable

Thanks to Norman for the demo and to Lukasz for designing such wonderful music machines

PS: I found Der Siebner is the more grown up and more important sounding DAC, but I preferred the Atlantic clearly as it was more involving and more musical. For me, Der Siebner was too german, too preussisch correct, at least for my taste

**firedog** · November 6, 2016, 12:55 PM

Again, or I'm misunderstanding or you guys are writing something incorrect. The standard 256 DSD and PCM autoswitching Atlantic (without DSD 512) also has 2 engines: one R2R for PCM and a separate path for DSD. The DSD doesn't go to the R2R board, it goes straight to a filter that produces analog output from the DSD stream. So even in standard Atlantic the DSD is chipless. The switching of signal paths is sensed at the USB input and happens automatically (unlike most Lampis).

The difference is that if you add on the 512 option the DSD engine that comes standard in the Atlantic is replaced with a different chipless solution for DSD, one that is in most of the other Lampi models.

So if I understand, the model you have is something a bit different. What really needs to be done for this comparison is to compare 2 Atlantics - one with 256 and one with 512, and see how big a difference there is in DSD playback. Then you'd have a fair comparison of the 2 engines.

Or I totally misunderstood.

BTW, there's now a Lampi dealer not far from where I live. At the end of next week I'm going to hear an Atlantic and a Big 7 for the first time!

**wisnon** · November 6, 2016, 01:17 PM

Hi FD,

You slightly misunderstand.

Basic Atlantic come with R2R for both ppm and dsd, with the DSD being bypassed from the latter and low passed using the pga control. This only goes to dsd256. If you order the geeked out DSD512 option, this is the discrete board Chipless similar to the older DSD, but going all the way to 512...so its new and pushes the limits. You can order the Atlantic DSD only and all you get is the cjipless512.

This particular demo has BOTH types off DSD. This means that we could test BOTH types of DSD switching back and forth with JUST a much of the front panel button on the fly. Of course, only one of the 2 would do DSD512, so that can't be directly compared. From 256 and below,,,,we can compare easily. Lukasz said the outcome is Transport/software dependent.

**MicJames** · November 7, 2016, 04:52 PM

Norman, thanks for all the info. Did you happen to compare PCM through the R2R board vs upsampled to DSD through either of the DSD modules?

**wisnon** · November 7, 2016, 06:49 PM

No, but maybe Christophs did?

**MicJames** · November 8, 2016, 03:45 AM

I'm curious to know how native redbook compared to redbook upsampled to DSD. 6 moons compared upsampled PCM to upsampled DSD. Upsampled PCM lacks emotional involvement somehow, IMO.

**firedog** · November 18, 2016, 07:46 AM

Just auditioned an Atlantic (standard), Big7, and Playback Designs Merlot.
I liked the Atlantic, but quickly decided it sounded best with all files converted by HQP to. 256 DSD beforehand.

For comparison, I also listened to the B7 in 256 DSD only. Interestingly, I thought it sounded very similar to the Atlantic on a few tracks, and significantly better on most others. Liked it a lot.
But I thought the best of the bunch was the Merlot. Very detailed and resolving, but still a natural sound. It's also a chipless Dac, but uses an upgradeable FPGA, for conversion and filtering. Incoming DSD 128 isn't altered, and goes directly to the filter.

**firedog** · November 18, 2016, 07:49 AM

Duplicate

**bonzo** · November 18, 2016, 07:52 AM

What were the tubes on the big 7, and what was the config? R2R?

Also what was the music played, and were you running big 7 thorough a pre or directly?

**firedog** · November 18, 2016, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by bonzo

What were the tubes on the big 7, and what was the config? R2R?

Also what was the music played, and were you running big 7 thorough a pre or directly?

Don't remember the tubes,sorry. They weren't one of the standard ones.
Music - a wide variety of all types of music and all file formats.

We ran every DAC thru the same integrated ,to keep the comparison consistent, and because I probably would use an integrated with them at home.

**Lee Henley** · November 22, 2016, 07:19 PM

Well the tube rectified is in the system and up and running, only got it for a short while but tomorrow night will be doing a side by side comparison to my solid state version, updates to come so watch this space

https://flic.kr/p/NfHnbY

**tomy2** · November 23, 2016, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Lee Henley

Well the tube rectified is in the system and up and running, only got it for a short while but tomorrow night will be doing a side by side comparison to my solid state version, updates to come so watch this space

https://flic.kr/p/NfHnbY

Definitely looking forward to what you think between the two. Judging by what you got listed below it looks like you got quite a nice system!

**lampi345** · November 27, 2016, 04:36 AM

Hello,
I would appreciate if you could give us your first impressions on the different concepts of rectifiers.
I am in the process of ordering an Atlantic and would need to know which concept would suit my needs.
Cheers
Kai

**Lee Henley** · November 27, 2016, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by lampi345

Hello,
I would appreciate if you could give us your first impressions on the different concepts of rectifiers.
I am in the process of ordering an Atlantic and would need to know which concept would suit my needs.
Cheers
Kai

Hi Kai

In due course I will post my findings from the other night, but for the time being if I were you get the one with the Tube rectification

Lee

**lampi345** · January 3, 2017, 01:34 PM

Did I miss something or when will "in due course" be?

Cheers
Kai

**Lee Henley** · January 3, 2017, 02:58 PM

I've been very busy lately and not had much time to post my thoughts but the upshot was that I had the tube rectified version in the house for a couple of days and brought it, the tube rectified version in my system was a significant upgrade, it offered an even wider and deeper soundstage and even more resolution, with these 3 factors taken into account it was a no brainer

**joeinid** · January 4, 2017, 05:07 AM

Thank you Lee. I'm sure it is wonderful.

**Lee Henley** · January 4, 2017, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Thank you Lee. I'm sure it is wonderful.

It is mate, one thing to add is that all my playback is with a Mac mini running Roon and HQ Player, I've not tried the spdif or optical input, I doubt I ever will. All my files are upsampled to DSD64. I have tried the PCM playback with the R2R engine and this is very very good indeed but I do prefer the DSD engine

**wisnon** · January 11, 2017, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by Lee Henley

It is mate, one thing to add is that all my playback is with a Mac mini running Roon and HQ Player, I've not tried the spdif or optical input, I doubt I ever will. All my files are upsampled to DSD64. I have tried the PCM playback with the R2R engine and this is very very good indeed but I do prefer the DSD engine

Why not to DSD 128?

**wisnon** · January 11, 2017, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by Lee Henley

It is mate, one thing to add is that all my playback is with a Mac mini running Roon and HQ Player, I've not tried the spdif or optical input, I doubt I ever will. All my files are upsampled to DSD64. I have tried the PCM playback with the R2R engine and this is very very good indeed but I do prefer the DSD engine

Duplicate...

**Lee Henley** · January 11, 2017, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

Why not to DSD 128?

Im running DSD128 now mate, had to tweak the settings in HQP but have now managed to get a setting that consistently works, I have a 2009 Mac mini which is quite underpowered but Jussi put me in the right direction and all is fine now

**wisnon** · January 11, 2017, 07:25 PM

Nice!

Please share those settings!

**Lee Henley** · January 12, 2017, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by wisnon

Nice!

Please share those settings!

Hi Wisnon

I use poly-sinc-short-mp and ASDM7

Lee

**digianalog** · March 29, 2017, 02:07 PM

Hi,

I have an opportunity to purchase a Lampizator Atlantic SE (w tube rectifier) and used Bricasti M1SE for about the same price? Trying to get as close to an analog experience... Anyone demo'ed the two and thoughts on which way to lean? From the threads and reviews seems like Bricasti edges out the Lampi fairly consistently. Thanks.

**Gopher** · April 3, 2017, 12:10 PM

I don't like to offer subjective opinions about a line I carry, but I am curious as to what threads and reviews you refer to as I don't believe I've ever seen anything like that...

**Mike** · April 3, 2017, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by digianalog

Hi,

I have an opportunity to purchase a Lampizator Atlantic SE (w tube rectifier) and used Bricasti M1SE for about the same price? Trying to get as close to an analog experience... Anyone demo'ed the two and thoughts on which way to lean? From the threads and reviews seems like Bricasti edges out the Lampi fairly consistently. Thanks.

Atlantic SE with tube rectifier. No doubt.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**asiufy** · April 3, 2017, 12:58 PM

I haven't heard the "SE" versions of the Bricasti, but that's what I'd go for, regardless.

Edit: just so I'm clear... I've heard the previous, non-SE versions of the DAC...

**wisnon** · April 3, 2017, 06:35 PM

Alex...you are well known not to like lampi dacs. You are very wrong but one day you will find out. Same way I was wrong to equate the Select 2 to the Select 1. The GG is far better than the Select 1...but would only match the Select 2 on DSD. Regardless of the huge price difference...I hear that Luk has some more tricks up his sleeve as well.

I dont know the Bricasti...but I would put the Gold Atlantic over and Dac at its price point. It is the sweetest spot in the Lampi range. It is that good, even its not as bling as you may like. I think its gorgeous anyway.

**asiufy** · April 3, 2017, 09:22 PM

wisnon,

I stated my preference. By definition, that can't be "wrong" or "right". You keep rooting for "Luk" there, while I'll keep my opinions based on stuff I like and respect.

cheers,
Alex

**wisnon** · April 4, 2017, 04:49 AM

alex

i used a mobile phone so was quick, cutting corners. i should have typed "wrong" in quotes, as of course that is what i meant.
as the saying goes: " a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still". still, its always best to keep an open mind and allow for surprises in life.

cheers
norman

**digianalog** · April 6, 2017, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Gopher

I don't like to offer subjective opinions about a line I carry, but I am curious as to what threads and reviews you refer to as I don't believe I've ever seen anything like that...

Came across this comment in this review https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016/...-atlantic-dac/

"Being upfront, the Atlantic is a step back from the Bricasti M1SE, but that is the class leader in that regard, and also happens to be considerably more expensive than the Atlantic."

**Gopher** · April 6, 2017, 04:39 PM

Interesting. I didn't realize there was an SE version to the Briscati--sounds like it's quite good, can't argue with Scott's ears having never heard it. But at a little over double the cost of the stock Atlantic Scott has, I can't help but wonder how an Atlantic Plus or Golden Atlantic would have compared.

**Genjamon** · April 6, 2017, 04:57 PM

I hope you realize that this quote was in reference to one specific attribute of the Bricasti vs Atlantic, and not an overall comparison. He was talking about pure detail retrieval in that sentence/paragraph, and he doesn't mention the Bricasti in any other part of the listening results section of the review, or in the overall conclusions.

But yeah, I completely agree with Gopher's question about where comparisons would lead if talking about Golden Atlantic.

Originally Posted by digianalog

Came across this comment in this review https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016/...-atlantic-dac/

"Being upfront, the Atlantic is a step back from the Bricasti M1SE, but that is the class leader in that regard, and also happens to be considerably more expensive than the Atlantic."

**BayStBroker** · May 16, 2017, 06:52 AM

Is anybody using Stillpoints or Nordost Sortkones with their Atlantic? Results?

**wisnon** · May 16, 2017, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by BayStBroker

Is anybody using Stillpoints or Nordost Sortkones with their Atlantic? Results?

I have some used Shun Mooks, but did not do much A/B testing.

Many people with other Lampis use StarSound Sistrum Apprentice platforms, La Dolce Vita uses HRS footers/platform and I used to use Black Ravioli with good effect. Audiocrack uses Halcyonix platforms.

**Gopher** · May 16, 2017, 01:33 PM

I have not had great luck experimenting with various footers under our equipment. Sistrum has been an exception, but generally speaking I haven't found the changes they bring to be for the better. This is just my opinion based on limited experience.

**Christophs** · May 16, 2017, 01:47 PM

I found the roller balls working well under my GG and my friends GA
And they come with the units anyways

**papermill** · May 16, 2017, 06:36 PM

BaySt,
I've found that footers can have a significant effect under electronics and speakers.
But allot of the passive cones, wood blocks etc, have had little to no effect in my system.
However, Stillpoints can definitely affect overall presentation, sometimes good, sometimes not. In my system, the Ultra SS under the Volti Alura speakers and Acoustic Solid turntable has proven to clarify the entire frequency range, especially the low frequencies. But used under the Atlantic, Air Tight preamp, Esoteric CD and Phonopre the higher frequencies became more defined to a point of harshness. So I ended up with a combination of Ultra Minis and Teo Audio Diamond Dampers -the combination of disparate, I admit, but efficacious solutions. Everyones system and personal preferences is different. But I might suggest, despite the manufacturers recommendations, that experimenting with placement and products might yield satisfying results. After amassing a drawer filled with footers, I've come to a final state.
The Atlantic has four footers. 2 Ultra Mini in the rear, 2 Teo Audio under the front footer.
PS: Once again all of our rigs function under such different conditions. In my case, a 100 year old house with a suspended floor, a solid maple rack with the turntable and BorderPatrol amp under Gingko platforms... so you can see, I've dedicated some effort in vibration control...

**La Dolce Vita** · May 17, 2017, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by BayStBroker

Is anybody using Stillpoints or Nordost Sortkones with their Atlantic? Results?

I use Stillpoints Ultra 6 (3 of them) under my Golden Gate. To my ears they take the Golden Gate to an unprecedented level

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**bonzo** · May 17, 2017, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by papermill

BaySt,
I've found that footers can have a significant effect under electronics and speakers.
But allot of the passive cones, wood blocks etc, have had little to no effect in my system.
However, Stillpoints can definitely affect overall presentation, sometimes good, sometimes not. In my system, the Ultra SS under the Volti Alura speakers and Acoustic Solid turntable has proven to clarify the entire frequency range, especially the low frequencies. But used under the Atlantic, Air Tight preamp, Esoteric CD and Phonopre the higher frequencies became more defined to a point of harshness. So I ended up with a combination of Ultra Minis and Teo Audio Diamond Dampers -the combination of disparate, I admit, but efficacious solutions. Everyones system and personal preferences is different. But I might suggest, despite the manufacturers recommendations, that experimenting with placement and products might yield satisfying results. After amassing a drawer filled with footers, I've come to a final state.
The Atlantic has four footers. 2 Ultra Mini in the rear, 2 Teo Audio under the front footer.
PS: Once again all of our rigs function under such different conditions. In my case, a 100 year old house with a suspended floor, a solid maple rack with the turntable and BorderPatrol amp under Gingko platforms... so you can see, I've dedicated some effort in vibration control...

I have always found Stillpoints harsher in the higher frequencies, drier in the midrange. I preferred Shun Mook diamond resonators much more to them.

**wisnon** · May 17, 2017, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by La Dolce Vita

I use Stillpoints Ultra 6 (3 of them) under my Golden Gate. To my ears they take the Golden Gate to an unprecedented level

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought you used HRS isolation platforms. My bad.

**BayStBroker** · May 17, 2017, 08:41 PM

So I got my A+ today, courtesy of Our Man Mike (presently "of Munich").

First impressions were a little underwhelming because I just wasn't in the mood to listen to music, even though I was excited to test a new device. (I'm sure we've all been in that situation.) I also had only mediocre IC's, since all of my good ones are balanced. So at first I mostly noticed the tube sound and good resolution (but not as much as my PS Audio DS).

Then several things happened. First (and most importantly) my mood improved and I was relaxed enough to be transported by music. Then my wife took our kids to the movies. Then Mark Jones dropped by with a pair of single-ended Nordost Frey ICs. I can't stress enough how much the Nordost IC's changed things. Now the resolution gap is unremarkable, IF it exists. Instead of noticing tubes (with Blue Jeans ICs the high frequencies sounded soft), I'm left breathless by the energy and coherence of the presentation. Terrific imaging and incredibly stable soundstage. Plenty of "grunt" from the S3 Mk2s. The only thing I'm missing is the sexy copper case that comes with the AG, and I would definitely have sprung for it had Mike not offered me instant gratification with the A+.

I've been listening mostly to DSD, so I won't comment on the PCM R2R engine. This is a very high resolution, very musical DAC. I'm enjoying my digital again. So thank you Lukasz, Munich Mike, and (of course) Mark Jones.

P.S. For North American sharks: the bass is ALL there.

**La Dolce Vita** · May 18, 2017, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by wisnon

I thought you used HRS isolation platforms. My bad.

No, you are right. I have the Ultra 6 under the GG on HRS isolation bases resting on HRS rack

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Genjamon** · May 23, 2017, 03:15 PM

I use Daedalus DID's footers under all my equipment. Also, it's worth experimenting with ceramic vs steel bearings in them. In addition, a local buddy has made a range of alternate wood pucks for the upper portion of the DID's - various hardwoods. My universal favorite is mesquite. But the stock versions Daedalus sells are quite good on their own - it's just that with bearings and different tone woods you can tweak the overall sound nicely.

I also have recently found interesting results with DIY Shun Mooks ebony pucks on top of the B7 chassis. The same local buddy lent me a dozen of these months and months ago, but I didn't believe in them - so they just sat there for months. He came over for a session last week, and we decided to play with them. I'll be damned if they didn't have a fairly clear effect once we were listening carefully to familiar music.

**wisnon** · May 24, 2017, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by BayStBroker

So I got my A+ today, courtesy of Our Man Mike (presently "of Munich").

First impressions were a little underwhelming because I just wasn't in the mood to listen to music, even though I was excited to test a new device. (I'm sure we've all been in that situation.) I also had only mediocre IC's, since all of my good ones are balanced. So at first I mostly noticed the tube sound and good resolution (but not as much as my PS Audio DS).

Then several things happened. First (and most importantly) my mood improved and I was relaxed enough to be transported by music. Then my wife took our kids to the movies. Then Mark Jones dropped by with a pair of single-ended Nordost Frey ICs. I can't stress enough how much the Nordost IC's changed things. Now the resolution gap is unremarkable, IF it exists. Instead of noticing tubes (with Blue Jeans ICs the high frequencies sounded soft), I'm left breathless by the energy and coherence of the presentation. Terrific imaging and incredibly stable soundstage. Plenty of "grunt" from the S3 Mk2s. The only thing I'm missing is the sexy copper case that comes with the AG, and I would definitely have sprung for it had Mike not offered me instant gratification with the A+.

I've been listening mostly to DSD, so I won't comment on the PCM R2R engine. This is a very high resolution, very musical DAC. I'm enjoying my digital again. So thank you Lukasz, Munich Mike, and (of course) Mark Jones.

P.S. For North American sharks: the bass is ALL there.

A little tip: The GA is more than just the A+ with a copper case. My pal in Liechtenstein had a Demo A+ for a few weeks while he waited for the GA to be built. He was happy to have the GA be the A+ with a copper case as he LOVED the A=. Within 30 secs of getting the GA, he was blown away. He was unprepared for the uptick in performance...

From Lukasz FB page on Mac DSD upsampling:
FINALLY !!! After years of birthpains and developments, Good news: Audirvana on MAC in it's new revision 3 has album artwork, cool new GUI, and upsampling to DSD that works like a charm !!! Perfect. Easy. Cheap. even MP3 sounds like master tape on DSD.

**wisnon** · March 22, 2018, 10:05 AM

https://www.audiostream.com/content/...r-atlantic-dac

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