Maybe you’re not playing fair?

**PS Audio** · June 20, 2013, 03:00 AM

Yesterday’s post surely got some of you riled up and perhaps I got a little carried away with my “emotional attachment” comment – no, not perhaps, definitely. *It is very system dependent – and as several of you have correctly pointed out, including my friend Michael Fremer, my turntable system and methodology doesn’t come close to matching that of the digital system.

But some good questions came up and I want to touch on those. *Several of you pointed out to me that the size of my vinyl library is small, relative to that of my CD and high resolution collection. *Thus I have a rather limited selection of vinyl from which to make a proper judgment. *I couldn’t agree more.

My good friend Josh at Music Direct has been helping me acquire a bigger library and kindly sends me releases he thinks I’ll like – many from their Mobile Fidelity label – and to be honest some of these are just stunning. *I just got the Frank Sinatra collection and that’s awesome.

Should any of you have suggestions of what vinyl I should be playing to discover what many of my readers feel – that vinyl is by far the superior musical medium – bring it on. *Nothing has yet convinced me of this but I am more than open to the idea. *I just love hearing new and wonderful music that thrills and excites, regardless of the medium.

But I should tell you that as predicted, the double edged sword nature of a system like the big IRS is that it shows everything connected to it or played on it – for better or for worse. *So sensitive and clear is this system that even the smallest change to the setup can be instantly heard. *It’s shown me a few surprising things: just HOW good the PerfectWave products are when it comes to digital playback – I was nervous that perhaps they might not live up to this level of exposure – but I was pleasantly surprised. *Cable lengths are more critical than ever – the difference between a 2 meter HDMI cable vs. a 1 meter is immediately obvious – the shorter cable winning out handily.

But the biggest surprise of all is still vinyl. *I figured this system was designed on vinyl – this system was optimized for vinyl – and yet vinyl is definitely the weaker medium when compared to high resolution audio.

Suggestions as to how to change my mind are most welcome.

*Forward to a friend and help us engage more readers
Get new and fresh stories like this each morning by joining the folks reading Paul's Posts. Click here

[Source: http://www.pstracks.com/pauls-posts/...-things/10859/]

**ohbythebay** · June 20, 2013, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by PS Audio

Yesterday’s post surely got some of you riled up and perhaps I got a little carried away with my “emotional attachment” comment – no, not perhaps, definitely. *It is very system dependent – and as several of you have correctly pointed out, including my friend Michael Fremer, my turntable system and methodology doesn’t come close to matching that of the digital system.

But some good questions came up and I want to touch on those. *Several of you pointed out to me that the size of my vinyl library is small, relative to that of my CD and high resolution collection. *Thus I have a rather limited selection of vinyl from which to make a proper judgment. *I couldn’t agree more.

My good friend Josh at Music Direct has been helping me acquire a bigger library and kindly sends me releases he thinks I’ll like – many from their Mobile Fidelity label – and to be honest some of these are just stunning. *I just got the Frank Sinatra collection and that’s awesome.

Should any of you have suggestions of what vinyl I should be playing to discover what many of my readers feel – that vinyl is by far the superior musical medium – bring it on. *Nothing has yet convinced me of this but I am more than open to the idea. *I just love hearing new and wonderful music that thrills and excites, regardless of the medium.

But I should tell you that as predicted, the double edged sword nature of a system like the big IRS is that it shows everything connected to it or played on it – for better or for worse. *So sensitive and clear is this system that even the smallest change to the setup can be instantly heard. *It’s shown me a few surprising things: just HOW good the PerfectWave products are when it comes to digital playback – I was nervous that perhaps they might not live up to this level of exposure – but I was pleasantly surprised. *Cable lengths are more critical than ever – the difference between a 2 meter HDMI cable vs. a 1 meter is immediately obvious – the shorter cable winning out handily.

But the biggest surprise of all is still vinyl. *I figured this system was designed on vinyl – this system was optimized for vinyl – and yet vinyl is definitely the weaker medium when compared to high resolution audio.

Suggestions as to how to change my mind are most welcome.

*Forward to a friend and help us engage more readers
Get new and fresh stories like this each morning by joining the folks reading Paul's Posts. Click here

[Source: Maybe you?re not playing fair? | PS Audio]

To be honest, I always dislike the "this is better than that" topics. Using "emotional attachments" or "technical specs" are both irrelevant supporting ideas when talking about preferences.

Perhaps to you, and what you are used to, there is a preference for digital. That is perfectly fine. To another, they love the analog sound of vinyl. And that is fine too. But you have no basis for saying one is better than the other except for personal preference. Personal preference is not a hard universal fact like the molecular composition of water - H2o - Any other combination is not water.

With music, it can be digital, vinyl, live, FM broadcast, AM broadcast...it is still always...Music.

Tell someone that prefers tubes over solid state they are wrong. Tell someone that prefers solid state over tubes they are wrong. Neither is wrong. Its personal preference. Heck, even individual tubes have preferences with people.....

Make sense ?

P>S - I would also like to know WHAT vinyl you are playing - what albums, condition, etc. because like digital mastering, there is VINYL and there is VINYL

**MusicDirector** · June 20, 2013, 12:36 PM

Well, I'm glad I missed that post. I got sick and tired of this whole Vinyl is better than CD and CD is better than vinyl and streaming is better than CD and tape is better than CD or vinyl and on and on. It's disgusting!!! In my world and love for music there is room for vinyl, CD, tape, streaming and even a little FM (well, ok, very little, but still). Some music sounds better on vinyl, true. Some music is only available on vinyl, true. Some music sounds better on CD, true. There is a purpose for streaming, true, etc. While I personally (and I imagine anyone else who cares) would not enjoy listening to a poor recording or poorly produced recording, no one medium has an exclusive on good or bad sound. I've heard both on all. It's enjoying the music that is of paramount importance. Let the ones who unreasonably hate all formats but the one of their choosing, suffer from never discovering new music or have the ability of hearing music in different environments and situations. Those of us who have acceptance of various formats can happily go on enjoying the music and discovering new stuff as well. Personally, I have about 250 vinyl LPs so far, 900 CDs, about 24 cassette tapes (I admit I don't have as many as I once did) and a Logitech squeezebox touch, not to mention a desktop PC and a laptop PC. So I get to listen to anything I want in any way I want. I get to have formal listens (vinyl and CD) and background music and discoveries (streaming and CD). Sometimes I have discovery with vinyl as well. So what format is better over the other? Accepting music in all mediums trumps all! ~Eric (Just my opinion though)

**joeinid** · June 20, 2013, 01:44 PM

"With music, it can be digital, vinyl, live, FM broadcast, AM broadcast...it is still always...Music."

I love it all and can listen through the cr@p to enjoy the good stuff.

**-E-** · June 20, 2013, 01:59 PM

Touche, Joe!

Get to where you are happy - and ffs live with some contentment (even if for a short while)!

**NorthStar** · June 20, 2013, 02:38 PM

I love Live beyond anything else.

**MusicDirector** · June 20, 2013, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by NorthStar

I love Live beyond anything else.

Another good point since you brought it up. How many of these (insert format here) only people would go to a live concert and tell the band to just put on a vinyl record or CD or something instead of playing live? Answer = not a single one of them would dare I bet.

**ohbythebay** · June 20, 2013, 03:08 PM

Just wanted to point out...I have over 14,000 MP3's (I kid you not)

About 200 albums

Unlimited through Xbox music...

What do I listen to ?

My Albums #1 or if background, then perhaps the xbox music streaming..from my Surface right through my main rig...I will never buy a CD again nor will I download another song....but I will buy more albums...

Just my preference

**dlb2** · June 20, 2013, 03:44 PM

I'm not surprised with the outcome of the original post. Remember, PS Audio sells a lot of digital gear.

**NorthStar** · June 20, 2013, 03:57 PM

"Live"; is it analog or digital?

**dlb2** · June 20, 2013, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by NorthStar

"Live"; is it analog or digital?

**MusicDirector** · June 20, 2013, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by ohbythebay

Just wanted to point out...I have over 14,000 MP3's (I kid you not)

About 200 albums

Unlimited through Xbox music...

What do I listen to ?

My Albums #1 or if background, then perhaps the xbox music streaming..from my Surface right through my main rig...I will never buy a CD again nor will I download another song....but I will buy more albums...

Just my preference

Nothing wrong with that Rob. What do I listen to? CDs and Vinyl records nearly tied for #1 - pleasure and critical listening. Streaming and sometimes CDs for background or casual listening and of course for "discovery it's streaming, even you tube and on occasion vinyl if I happen to pick up something strange during a hunt. I just don't do downloaded music, I just don't see the need for me to do it. I still buy CDs on occasion and of course vinyl records (a bit more often than CDs, yes). There is nothing wrong with someone liking a couple of formats only or even just one in and of itself. It's all subjective and personal preference. The problem arises when someone claims that one format is superior to all else and tries to call others idiots or something for liking a format other than the one they describe as superior or just spews a bunch of hate of the other formats without any supportive evidence to back their claims just to push an agenda. At least we don't have to hear that stuff at A/S unlike some other places and speaking for myself only, I'm darn glad about that. Hey Rob, nice system, by the way! ~Eric

**ohbythebay** · June 20, 2013, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by NorthStar

"Live"; is it analog or digital?

Live is analog...so is digital when it comes out of your speakers...we HEAR in analog...

**NorthStar** · June 20, 2013, 09:22 PM

True to a certain extent Rob: Live is analog as long as the mic is not digitally processed (echoes), and that the music is not digitally processed (DSP drums and synthesizers). ...Same for all those digital electric guitar pedals (distortion, flanger, sustain, delay, etc.).

So, 'Live' music can be or all analog (acoustic and unamplified), or all digital (all amplified and digitally processed).

See!

You start analog (Classical music for example), then you stay analog all the way.
And same with digital (techno music for example); you keep it digital all along. ...From beginning to end.
Because if you mix DAC with ADC you are weakening the entire process from its overall impact (final result).

My next question now: A microphone, is it analog or digital?

**ohbythebay** · June 21, 2013, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by NorthStar

True to a certain extent Rob: Live is analog as long as the mic is not digitally processed (echoes), and that the music is not digitally processed (DSP drums and synthesizers). ...Same for all those digital electric guitar pedals (distortion, flanger, sustain, delay, etc.).

So, 'Live' music can be or all analog (acoustic and unamplified), or all digital (all amplified and digitally processed).

See!

You start analog (Classical music for example), then you stay analog all the way.
And same with digital (techno music for example); you keep it digital all along. ...From beginning to end.
Because if you mix DAC with ADC you are weakening the entire process from its overall impact (final result).

My next question now: A microphone, is it analog or digital?

Sorry...Nope. Live music can never be digital. It can be processed digitally but you CANNOT hear (ears) it digitally. Human beings hear in analog, not in bits and bites.

Splitting hairs, I know but true...

Todays mics- electrolytic or condenser are actually a capacitor where the electric charge between the two plates change as sound pressure varies the space difference between them. This gets translated as an audio signal for the computer to use

And dynamic microphones are analog devices
dynamic uses a thin plastic diaphragm attached to a coil of wire. Either inside or surrounding this is a magnet . When you sing into a mic, the diaphragm vibrates which vibrates the coil and moves in relation to the magnet causing current changes out to the amp...

**sharkmouth** · June 21, 2013, 06:25 PM

Bob, I think you need hobby!!

**NorthStar** · June 21, 2013, 11:37 PM

Rob, I was just extrapolating analogically.

Kev, but that is my new "digital" hobby! ...A computer (PC or Mac); is it digital or analogue?

**sharkmouth** · June 22, 2013, 03:03 AM

It's all analogue Bob, digital just fills the gaps!!

**NorthStar** · June 22, 2013, 10:18 PM

Digital is missing all the 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, 6s, 7s, 8s, and 9s.

Analog is missing only the 0s, and 1s.

**Skroudo** · June 23, 2013, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by NorthStar

Digital is missing all the 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, 6s, 7s, 8s, and 9s.

Analog is missing only the 0s, and 1s.

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