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  1. #1
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    Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    I recently spent some time with Jim in his dedicated listening room getting aquatinted with his new system. I've been there before on a few occasions, but that was listening to his previous setup, which included his big Tannoy speakers with outboard crossovers and some very expensive ancillary gear.

    Jim invited me to come because he's gone through what happens to many of us on our audio journey.And as many of us have, his views have evolved. At the beginning of our journey, some of us are really paying attention to how correct or realistic the sounds we are listening to are. We want to have our music be as realistic as possible. And for some of us it can become sort of a quest to get there. There's nothing wrong with that goal until it becomes the only reason you're an audiophile. What I mean by that is that in acquiring speakers and other gear that only gives us the technical truth of the music, we lose the very thing that we loved about music in the first place.......the way it makes us feel. Music and lyrics that bring out emotions from deep inside us!

    Jim put together his new system for a fraction of the money of his previous setup. Fyne speakers,a Pass integrated and cheap wires.

    His purpose was to show that a fairly inexpensive system, set up properly, could bring out those emotions that we all enjoy so much when listening to a piece of music that touches us.
    After spending a few hours there listening to music that I wasn't even familiar with,I can assure that he totally succeeded. It was even better than his old, much more expensive system.

    One of the things we talked about was when a music system achieves the goal of being emotionally involving, it also becomes something that we can share with the people we love. I know personally that since the arrival of the Kharmas and the Gryphon integrated that my wife has wanted to sit with me, and she has commented on how beautiful it sounds.

    I'm sure Jim will chime in and explain his goals, and if I was incorrect on anything I hope he corrects me.

    Overall it was another ear opening day in my journey through the audiophile universe.
    Last edited by MDP; September 14, 2021 at 01:12 PM.
    Mark


    Kharma DB9 Signature speakers
    Gryphon Diablo 300 integrated
    REL S2 Subwoofers
    Lumin A1 Network Streamer
    VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
    Manley Chinook Phono Pre
    Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
    Kharma Elegance speaker cables
    Kharma Elegance interconnects

  2. #2
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    Re: Roomplay With Jim Smith

    Thanks for sharing Mark. Clearly Jim is one of the best system setup professionals and industry expert. I need to book a visit.
    _______________

    Mike

  3. #3
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    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    Great write up Mark. Engaging emotions is what makes this so much fun. Glad you’re loving the Kharma’s.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Bakoon Audio, Berkeley Audio Design, Block Audio, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Franco Serblin Loudspeakers, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Koetsu Cartridges, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  4. #4
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    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    WOW, Mark!!!

    Thanks for that report.

    I have been moving even further to be certain that the emotional involvement factor - the Musical Engagement - is greater than ever.

    It's related to the work that I have been doing in my - horribly delayed - Through the Sound Barrier Kickstarter project.

    IMO, it's no longer enough to get the technical aspects right - which absolutely makes a huge difference when done right. There is still a bit more tuning to do to get the music fully unlocked.

    FWIW - my current RoomPlay Reference system costs less than the power cords did in the last one!!!

    Yet every visitor has been wrapped up in the music more than before - and that system was considered one of - if not the best - that visitors ever heard. Even with that system, there were a great deal of better components available, it was about the set-up and the room.

    There is much more that I could say, but it already sounds like a h-u-u-u-g-e advertisement.

    Thanks again, Mark!
    DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Alpha & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; PecanPi USB dac; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amp w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.com

  5. #5

    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP View Post
    I recently spent some time with Jim in his dedicated listening room getting aquatinted with his new system. I've been there before on a few occasions, but that was listening to his previous setup, which included his big Tannoy speakers with outboard crossovers and some very expensive ancillary gear.

    Jim invited me to come because he's gone through what happens to many of us on our audio journey.And as many of us have, his views have evolved. At the beginning of our journey, some of us are really paying attention to how correct or realistic the sounds we are listening to are. We want to have our music be as realistic as possible. And for some of us it can become sort of a quest to get there. There's nothing wrong with that goal until it becomes the only reason you're an audiophile. What I mean by that is that in acquiring speakers and other gear that only gives us the technical truth of the music, we lose the very thing that we loved about music in the first place.......the way it makes us feel. Music and lyrics that bring out emotions from deep inside us!

    Jim put together his new system for a fraction of the money of his previous setup. Fyne speakers,a Pass integrated and cheap wires.

    His purpose was to show that a fairly inexpensive system, set up properly, could bring out those emotions that we all enjoy so much when listening to a piece of music that touches us.
    After spending a few hours there listening to music that I wasn't even familiar with,I can assure that he totally succeeded. It was even better than his old, much more expensive system.

    One of the things we talked about was when a music system achieves the goal of being emotionally involving, it also becomes something that we can share with the people we love. I know personally that since the arrival of the Kharmas and the Gryphon integrated that my wife has wanted to sit with me, and she has commented on how beautiful it sounds.

    I'm sure Jim will chime in and explain his goals, and if I was incorrect on anything I hope he corrects me.

    Overall it was another ear opening day in my journey through the audiophile universe.
    Very nice and honest post. The description of Jim Smith’s change of view is not unusual. Many of us start in this hobby pursuing some goal that we eventually learn is not possible to achieve. Along the way in this journey some folks discover that many supposed truths are nothing more than myths and fallacies.
    It is about the music. It sounds like Jim Smith is right on. Congrats to Jim!!

  6. #6
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    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    I notice, though, that you (MDP) still have a very pricey system Are you considering following Jim's path to greater simplicity (or less complexity)?
    Rob
    __________________________
    Tascam BR-20
    Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS
    Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS
    MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out)
    Pass Labs INT60
    Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s
    REL S3 (Kimber Kable connection)
    Daedalus/Wywires, Audioquest, Acoustic Zen, DH cables
    Torus IS5
    ​​​​​​​Stillpoints and IsoPods, Tube Traps, GIK

  7. #7
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    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    ...
    FWIW - my current RoomPlay Reference system costs less than the power cords did in the last one!!!
    Can you tell us what the current RoomPlay Reference system is? Are you using any power conditioning in it? Racks and/or isolation devices? Thanks
    Rob
    __________________________
    Tascam BR-20
    Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS
    Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS
    MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out)
    Pass Labs INT60
    Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s
    REL S3 (Kimber Kable connection)
    Daedalus/Wywires, Audioquest, Acoustic Zen, DH cables
    Torus IS5
    ​​​​​​​Stillpoints and IsoPods, Tube Traps, GIK

  8. #8

    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by rbbert View Post
    Can you tell us what the current RoomPlay Reference system is? Are you using any power conditioning in it? Racks and/or isolation devices? Thanks
    That was a very telling statement by Jim Smith concerning the cost of the power cords in his old system costing more than his entire new system.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  9. #9
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    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    That was a very telling statement by Jim Smith concerning the cost of the power cords in his old system costing more than his entire new system.
    No argument from me with that, since I have long been a proponent of streamlining (downsizing), but given what power cords can cost it doesn't really answer my question

    It's also a telling statement from the other Mark that he felt this degree of musical involvement from a system with no analog source
    Rob
    __________________________
    Tascam BR-20
    Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS
    Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS
    MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out)
    Pass Labs INT60
    Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s
    REL S3 (Kimber Kable connection)
    Daedalus/Wywires, Audioquest, Acoustic Zen, DH cables
    Torus IS5
    ​​​​​​​Stillpoints and IsoPods, Tube Traps, GIK

  10. #10
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    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by rbbert View Post
    Can you tell us what the current RoomPlay Reference system is? Are you using any power conditioning in it? Racks and/or isolation devices? Thanks
    I actually now have TWO systems, in case one develops an unexpected issue.

    My main system:

    Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp
    Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated
    MBP (3) - 10 years old - stripped down for music only
    Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2
    Pair of REL S-812S subs
    Tripp Lite power cords, and/or Wyred 4 Sound power cords
    Pangea racks (total $475), replacing highly modified Grand Prix Audio racks (over $5k). EVPs under each component.
    All Duelund ICs & speaker cables

    System Two replaces Pass INT-60 with Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, and Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s.
    Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes, instead of Fyne 703s. Everything else remains the same.

    While I used to wait until I consistently fell into the music from tracks I'd heard thousands of times (then turning to my RoomPlay client and saying, "We're done!"), that is no longer the case. Now, when I start falling into the music, I know that there is - with more effort - an opportunity to extract even more musical engagement from nearly every track.

    That is what Mark heard, as well as another client from a week ago:

    "Jim,

    Thanks for the listening session at your studio that you provided for me this past week. The afternoon was quite enlightening.

    I have never experienced music with the detail, depth and clarity that I heard on your system. My system is much more expensive but does not come close to the musicality that your system exhibits.

    Very evident that the setup is the key ingredient in the success of a finely tuned and really impressive music experience. I look forward to you helping my system achieve its potential.

    John D"

    If I can get them to load, I'll post a few images, but they will reveal very little about the increased Musical Engagement factor.

    Incidentally, most clients have turntables, yet I hear no complaints re the digital... That is definitely NOT a statement about the relative merits of digital & vinyl, but simply one about the musical involvement from a system that has more than a few compromises...

    Additionally, it means that the Pass INT 60 & Fyne 703s are definitely no slouches...

    And, doggone it, it's why I want a pair of the top Fynes for myself, but cannot at this time, due to the ME mission...
    DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Alpha & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; PecanPi USB dac; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amp w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.com

  11. #11
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    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith







    Jim asked me to post these.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Bakoon Audio, Berkeley Audio Design, Block Audio, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Franco Serblin Loudspeakers, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Koetsu Cartridges, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
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  12. #12
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    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by rbbert View Post
    I notice, though, that you (MDP) still have a very pricey system Are you considering following Jim's path to greater simplicity (or less complexity)?
    I agree that my system is pricey. Once I heard the Kharma DB9's I couldn't help myself.
    And my system had room setup restrictions because of the compromise I made with my wife that allowed my system to be in the main living area.
    So I'm trying to compensate for those setup restrictions with the most musically engaging speaker I could find.

    But it is a simplified system. I went from separates to an integrated amp.

    I know from being at Jim's place that proper setup is crucial to getting everything from your system, if you're able to accommodate it.
    Last edited by MDP; September 16, 2021 at 08:43 AM.
    Mark


    Kharma DB9 Signature speakers
    Gryphon Diablo 300 integrated
    REL S2 Subwoofers
    Lumin A1 Network Streamer
    VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
    Manley Chinook Phono Pre
    Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
    Kharma Elegance speaker cables
    Kharma Elegance interconnects

  13. #13

    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    Hi Jim, which power cord (brand/model) do you use from the wall to your Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2?

    Thanks, Duke
    Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2 / Ayre MXR-20 / MSB Ref DAC+Transport / Nordost SC+IC / Audioquest PC /

  14. #14
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    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    I heard the DB9s at Mike’s and can’t get them out of my head.

  15. #15
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    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
    I heard the DB9s at Mike’s and can’t get them out of my head.
    Well, you know how to fix that don't you??

    Mark


    Kharma DB9 Signature speakers
    Gryphon Diablo 300 integrated
    REL S2 Subwoofers
    Lumin A1 Network Streamer
    VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
    Manley Chinook Phono Pre
    Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
    Kharma Elegance speaker cables
    Kharma Elegance interconnects

  16. #16
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    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    I actually now have TWO systems, in case one develops an unexpected issue.

    My main system:

    Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp
    Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated
    MBP (3) - 10 years old - stripped down for music only
    Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2
    Pair of REL S-812S subs
    Tripp Lite power cords, and/or Wyred 4 Sound power cords
    Pangea racks (total $475), replacing highly modified Grand Prix Audio racks (over $5k). EVPs under each component.
    All Duelund ICs & speaker cables

    System Two replaces Pass INT-60 with Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, and Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s.
    Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes, instead of Fyne 703s. Everything else remains the same.

    While I used to wait until I consistently fell into the music from tracks I'd heard thousands of times (then turning to my RoomPlay client and saying, "We're done!"), that is no longer the case. Now, when I start falling into the music, I know that there is - with more effort - an opportunity to extract even more musical engagement from nearly every track.

    That is what Mark heard, as well as another client from a week ago:

    "Jim,

    Thanks for the listening session at your studio that you provided for me this past week. The afternoon was quite enlightening.

    I have never experienced music with the detail, depth and clarity that I heard on your system. My system is much more expensive but does not come close to the musicality that your system exhibits.

    Very evident that the setup is the key ingredient in the success of a finely tuned and really impressive music experience. I look forward to you helping my system achieve its potential.

    John D"

    If I can get them to load, I'll post a few images, but they will reveal very little about the increased Musical Engagement factor.

    Incidentally, most clients have turntables, yet I hear no complaints re the digital... That is definitely NOT a statement about the relative merits of digital & vinyl, but simply one about the musical involvement from a system that has more than a few compromises...

    Additionally, it means that the Pass INT 60 & Fyne 703s are definitely no slouches...

    And, doggone it, it's why I want a pair of the top Fynes for myself, but cannot at this time, due to the ME mission...
    Jim,
    In the photos on this thread I have noticed the half hemisphere covers over the speaker cables.
    Is this for aesthetics or are there other beneficial purposes for them?
    My System:
    Lumin A-1
    Joule Electra LA150 Signature Plus
    Pass XA30.5
    Line Magnetic 845ia
    JMR (Reynaud) Offrande Supreme V2
    18" Open Baffle Subs
    Cables: Teo Audio, Cerious Tech, Fusion Audio.
    Two dedicated 20 Amp circuits. Shunyata Hydra. EP2050
    DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.

  17. #17
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    Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by jadedavid View Post
    Jim,
    In the photos on this thread I have noticed the half hemisphere covers over the speaker cables.
    Is this for aesthetics or are there other beneficial purposes for them?
    The Duelund cables are relatively small, so they can easily be tripped over, so the covers were a safety measure.

    Can't say that they have any sound-related issues, purely for safety, having seen several folks trip over them......
    DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Alpha & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; PecanPi USB dac; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amp w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.com

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Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith

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