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September 14, 2021, 12:53 PM #1
Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
I recently spent some time with Jim in his dedicated listening room getting aquatinted with his new system. I've been there before on a few occasions, but that was listening to his previous setup, which included his big Tannoy speakers with outboard crossovers and some very expensive ancillary gear.
Jim invited me to come because he's gone through what happens to many of us on our audio journey.And as many of us have, his views have evolved. At the beginning of our journey, some of us are really paying attention to how correct or realistic the sounds we are listening to are. We want to have our music be as realistic as possible. And for some of us it can become sort of a quest to get there. There's nothing wrong with that goal until it becomes the only reason you're an audiophile. What I mean by that is that in acquiring speakers and other gear that only gives us the technical truth of the music, we lose the very thing that we loved about music in the first place.......the way it makes us feel. Music and lyrics that bring out emotions from deep inside us!
Jim put together his new system for a fraction of the money of his previous setup. Fyne speakers,a Pass integrated and cheap wires.
His purpose was to show that a fairly inexpensive system, set up properly, could bring out those emotions that we all enjoy so much when listening to a piece of music that touches us.
After spending a few hours there listening to music that I wasn't even familiar with,I can assure that he totally succeeded. It was even better than his old, much more expensive system.
One of the things we talked about was when a music system achieves the goal of being emotionally involving, it also becomes something that we can share with the people we love. I know personally that since the arrival of the Kharmas and the Gryphon integrated that my wife has wanted to sit with me, and she has commented on how beautiful it sounds.
I'm sure Jim will chime in and explain his goals, and if I was incorrect on anything I hope he corrects me.
Overall it was another ear opening day in my journey through the audiophile universe.Last edited by MDP; September 14, 2021 at 01:12 PM.
Mark
Kharma DB9 Signature
Pass Labs XP32......incoming
Pass Labs X350.8
Esoteric N-05XD
VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
Manley Chinook Phono Pre
Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
Kharma Elegance speaker cables
Kharma Elegance interconnects
REL Subs
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September 14, 2021, 01:10 PM #2
Re: Roomplay With Jim Smith
Thanks for sharing Mark. Clearly Jim is one of the best system setup professionals and industry expert. I need to book a visit.
_______________
Mike
Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
Subwoofers: REL Carbon Specials
Conditioner: Shunyata Triton 3
Power Cables: Shunyata Sigma 1 & 2, Alpha 2, Delta and Venom
ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
Rack: Artesania Exoteryc
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September 14, 2021, 01:20 PM #3
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
Great write up Mark. Engaging emotions is what makes this so much fun. Glad you’re loving the Kharma’s.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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September 14, 2021, 01:50 PM #4
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
WOW, Mark!!!
Thanks for that report.
I have been moving even further to be certain that the emotional involvement factor - the Musical Engagement - is greater than ever.
It's related to the work that I have been doing in my - horribly delayed - Through the Sound Barrier Kickstarter project.
IMO, it's no longer enough to get the technical aspects right - which absolutely makes a huge difference when done right. There is still a bit more tuning to do to get the music fully unlocked.
FWIW - my current RoomPlay Reference system costs less than the power cords did in the last one!!!
Yet every visitor has been wrapped up in the music more than before - and that system was considered one of - if not the best - that visitors ever heard. Even with that system, there were a great deal of better components available, it was about the set-up and the room.
There is much more that I could say, but it already sounds like a h-u-u-u-g-e advertisement.
Thanks again, Mark!DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
www.getbettersound.com
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September 14, 2021, 09:54 PM #5
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 2,104
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
Very nice and honest post. The description of Jim Smith’s change of view is not unusual. Many of us start in this hobby pursuing some goal that we eventually learn is not possible to achieve. Along the way in this journey some folks discover that many supposed truths are nothing more than myths and fallacies.
It is about the music. It sounds like Jim Smith is right on. Congrats to Jim!!
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September 15, 2021, 10:10 AM #6
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
I notice, though, that you (MDP) still have a very pricey system Are you considering following Jim's path to greater simplicity (or less complexity)?
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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September 15, 2021, 10:26 AM #7
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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September 15, 2021, 01:36 PM #8
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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September 15, 2021, 02:18 PM #9
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
No argument from me with that, since I have long been a proponent of streamlining (downsizing), but given what power cords can cost it doesn't really answer my question
It's also a telling statement from the other Mark that he felt this degree of musical involvement from a system with no analog sourceRob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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September 15, 2021, 02:38 PM #10
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
I actually now have TWO systems, in case one develops an unexpected issue.
My main system:
Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp
Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated
MBP (3) - 10 years old - stripped down for music only
Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2
Pair of REL S-812S subs
Tripp Lite power cords, and/or Wyred 4 Sound power cords
Pangea racks (total $475), replacing highly modified Grand Prix Audio racks (over $5k). EVPs under each component.
All Duelund ICs & speaker cables
System Two replaces Pass INT-60 with Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, and Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s.
Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes, instead of Fyne 703s. Everything else remains the same.
While I used to wait until I consistently fell into the music from tracks I'd heard thousands of times (then turning to my RoomPlay client and saying, "We're done!"), that is no longer the case. Now, when I start falling into the music, I know that there is - with more effort - an opportunity to extract even more musical engagement from nearly every track.
That is what Mark heard, as well as another client from a week ago:
"Jim,
Thanks for the listening session at your studio that you provided for me this past week. The afternoon was quite enlightening.
I have never experienced music with the detail, depth and clarity that I heard on your system. My system is much more expensive but does not come close to the musicality that your system exhibits.
Very evident that the setup is the key ingredient in the success of a finely tuned and really impressive music experience. I look forward to you helping my system achieve its potential.
John D"
If I can get them to load, I'll post a few images, but they will reveal very little about the increased Musical Engagement factor.
Incidentally, most clients have turntables, yet I hear no complaints re the digital... That is definitely NOT a statement about the relative merits of digital & vinyl, but simply one about the musical involvement from a system that has more than a few compromises...
Additionally, it means that the Pass INT 60 & Fyne 703s are definitely no slouches...
And, doggone it, it's why I want a pair of the top Fynes for myself, but cannot at this time, due to the ME mission...DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
www.getbettersound.com
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September 16, 2021, 07:47 AM #11
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
Jim asked me to post these.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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September 16, 2021, 07:49 AM #12
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
I agree that my system is pricey. Once I heard the Kharma DB9's I couldn't help myself.
And my system had room setup restrictions because of the compromise I made with my wife that allowed my system to be in the main living area.
So I'm trying to compensate for those setup restrictions with the most musically engaging speaker I could find.
But it is a simplified system. I went from separates to an integrated amp.
I know from being at Jim's place that proper setup is crucial to getting everything from your system, if you're able to accommodate it.Last edited by MDP; September 16, 2021 at 08:43 AM.
Mark
Kharma DB9 Signature
Pass Labs XP32......incoming
Pass Labs X350.8
Esoteric N-05XD
VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
Manley Chinook Phono Pre
Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
Kharma Elegance speaker cables
Kharma Elegance interconnects
REL Subs
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September 18, 2021, 03:25 PM #13
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- USA
- Posts
- 70
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
Hi Jim, which power cord (brand/model) do you use from the wall to your Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2?
Thanks, DukeVandersteen Model 7 Mk2 / Ayre MXR-20 / MSB Ref DAC+Transport / Nordost SC+IC / Audioquest PC /
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September 18, 2021, 07:28 PM #14
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
I heard the DB9s at Mike’s and can’t get them out of my head.
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September 20, 2021, 07:41 AM #15
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
Mark
Kharma DB9 Signature
Pass Labs XP32......incoming
Pass Labs X350.8
Esoteric N-05XD
VPI Avenger with Magnetic Drive
Manley Chinook Phono Pre
Ortofon Cadenza Black cartridge
Kharma Elegance speaker cables
Kharma Elegance interconnects
REL Subs
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September 20, 2021, 08:19 AM #16
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- west Michigan
- Posts
- 713
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
My System
Acoustic Revive RTP-4
Innuos Pulsar
Lampizator BALTIC4
Cary SLP-05
Pass XA30.5 or
Line Magnetic 845ia
Reference 3A Reflector's
Pr SVS SB3000 Subs
Cables & Tubes "subject to change without notification".
Complete system on battery power/solar
Core Audio Design Rack
DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.
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September 20, 2021, 08:38 AM #17
Re: Roomplay Reference With Jim Smith
DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
www.getbettersound.com
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Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
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