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  1. #1

    4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Samsung announced that they will no longer make 4K players. Reason given is that folks are not buying 4K discs.

    Oppo did the same last year.

    Streaming wins.

  2. #2

    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Samsung announced that they will no longer make 4K players. Reason given is that folks are not buying 4K discs.

    Oppo did the same last year.

    Streaming wins.
    For the majority of people perhaps. But, there are still videophiles that exist that collect and prefer physical copies of their favorite films. I'm sure we have quite a few on this forum.

    One can also argue that the physical media (4K ) movies still offer superior uncompressed Dolby Atmos/DTS-X on the disc itself. 4k streaming from Itunes /Vudu when you see Dolby Atmos ; isn't the same as the physical media version.

    But... for the joe six pack crew, who cares; stream away.

    I wonder if we will come full circle back to physical media and stores? After all only time will how many of these "Streaming Services" customers are willing to have and what they will pay for them.

    For example, if Netflix goes to all exclusive content makes sense their own. So, now you need the Disney Streaming, the Sony Pictures one etc.... Amazon ...etc.

  3. #3
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Question then for Videophiles.

    How many different formats do you need the same movie in, and how many times would you actually watch them all more than a few times if that?

    I hope it comes back to physical media, but only if they can all agree on one and make it count. It's a shame Sony was so stingy with Beta Rights because it was a better format than VHS, really good for Sound.
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  4. #4

    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    Question then for Videophiles.

    How many different formats do you need the same movie in, and how many times would you actually watch them all more than a few times if that?

    I hope it comes back to physical media, but only if they can all agree on one and make it count. It's a shame Sony was so stingy with Beta Rights because it was a better format than VHS, really good for Sound.
    Format war? We haven't had that since HD-DVD and Blu -Ray. For , 1080p its Blu-Ray and there is no format war for 4k in physical media.

    Ultra HD 4K is the only game in town for physical media 4k.

    To that end, just as most audiophiles want their music in the best sound quality possible. I want my movies in that same category.

    So, for me Ultra HD 4k physical media is still the best choice ; if I want to own the movie. I have no problem streaming of course to access new content or to rent a movie via Amazon/Vudu etc..

  5. #5
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    I don't buy as many movies as I used to. I probably own about 9 UHD discs and have a UHD system with an Oppo 203. There are times when I've debated selling the 203 as it sees so little use (I can use it to play files from my NAS but I have a Lumin U1 in the main system and a couple of Windows 10 music servers in others, including one with a Hegel 190 so the system is just for video). So I understand where Samsung is coming from. My main system is an integrated AV system. I have an Epson 5030 projector and an Oppo 103D and when I play the Blu-Ray disc that comes with the UHD discs, it is not like I feel that UHD blows it out of the water (granted I'm watching on a 100 inch screen from 10 feet away vs. a 55 UHD screen from 7 feet away).
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  6. #6
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Let's review, you can still buy DVD discs, 4k is the most expensive and I don't think general public understands 4k in the way they didn't and still may not understand HD, the industry expects people to buy 4k when they are already showing 8k, whether it's a way down the road or not you can see the writing on the wall. It's not actually the4k that is as much benefit as HDR.

    With that being said, no matter the streaming service you can't watch what you want, only what's available. Meaning, if I want to watch an old favorite, unless it's available on the streaming service, I'm out of luck unless I physically own it.

    I personally do not buy or rent movies like I used to. Just not that much interesting any more.

    Most people do not belong to a forum unless a hobbyst like us, so with the lack of B&M stores to explain and display, how do people learn about 4k and the set up? Or, anything new in tech.
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  7. #7

    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    Let's review, you can still buy DVD discs, 4k is the most expensive and I don't think general public understands 4k in the way they didn't and still may not understand HD, the industry expects people to buy 4k when they are already showing 8k, whether it's a way down the road or not you can see the writing on the wall. It's not actually the4k that is as much benefit as HDR.

    With that being said, no matter the streaming service you can't watch what you want, only what's available. Meaning, if I want to watch an old favorite, unless it's available on the streaming service, I'm out of luck unless I physically own it.

    I personally do not buy or rent movies like I used to. Just not that much interesting any more.

    Most people do not belong to a forum unless a hobbyst like us, so with the lack of B&M stores to explain and display, how do people learn about 4k and the set up? Or, anything new in tech.
    You mention many valid reasons that have led to where we are today. The one that I would add is the convenience of streaming. You can now stream 4k selections before you can buy the physical discs!

  8. #8
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    How good is 4k streaming? Anyone know if streaming includes HDR or Dolby Vision? I've heard the disc is better than streaming but If not side by side would anyone care.
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  9. #9

    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    How good is 4k streaming? Anyone know if streaming includes HDR or Dolby Vision? I've heard the disc is better than streaming but If not side by side would anyone care.
    You can stream 4k UHD from several sources including Netflix, Amazon, and Apple. Netflix charged extra for 4k UHD content.

    Apple can stream Dolby Vision movies at the moment. Not sure about the others.

  10. #10
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    no surprise - I sold my Oppo BDP two years ago and haven't looked back. prob should upload my BDs to my server though.
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  11. #11
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    I think for the majority of high end 4K TV owners,l feel why spend $400 to $500 (if you throw in at least three 4K Blu-ray discs) on a new media source if your TV’s or set-top boxes streaming 4K media apps will let you watch the same movies and more for just a few bucks a month.
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  12. #12

    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    I've been thinking about getting a 4K TV. I was in Costco today and a 65" 4K TCL Brand TV was $499. We don't watch TV very much and I have a front projector which is an old Panasonic which does 1080p onto a 100" screen for bluray movies. We have Amazon Prime, but haven't used the TV/movie features of the subscription very much. The 4k TV would just be for casual viewing in another room. I don't see any 1080p TVs around. Not interested in an OLED or other super high end TV. Is the demise of the 4K player going to affect the 4K TV? I don't see any alternatives at a reasonable price point.

    Thanks, Larry
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  13. #13

    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotoy View Post
    ....
    I don't see any 1080p TVs around. Not interested in an OLED or other super high end TV. Is the demise of the 4K player going to affect the 4K TV? I don't see any alternatives at a reasonable price point.

    Thanks, Larry
    The reason why you don’t see 1080p TVs around is just because now everyone is looking for 4K TVs. 1080p is old technology.

    My projector can do some version of 4K, but not native 4K. Nor will it do HDR (high dynamic range) which many consider to be even more important than 4K.

    The demise of the 4K TV player has no effect on 4K TVs. Folks are watching more and more 4K films via streaming. Amazon Prime Vídeo, Netflix, etc have 4K films right now. You can stream them using AppleTV or Roku. You no longer need an extra box (I.e., dedicated player) or a physical disc. The same applies to audio players/transports btw.

    The media companies make more money by not having to manufacture discs.

  14. #14
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Since I will be canceling my cable to only supply the basic local channels, I will keep both of my Oppo 203 to play 4K movies I buy, and Blue Rays I rent from Netflix.
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  15. #15

    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Since I will be canceling my cable to only supply the basic local channels, I will keep both of my Oppo 203 to play 4K movies I buy, and Blue Rays I rent from Netflix.
    Your Oppo has better video capabilities than many digital preamps. I feed HDMI from my cable box to the Oppo 205 and I get better video and digital audio from it instead feeding the signal to my preamp.

  16. #16
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Why isn't there a movie streaming service similar to Tidal, Spotify etc. so I can watch whatever movie pops into my head, at any time? Opposed to these video services which seem to work like HBO, you get what you get until they rotate more get what you get.

    Meaning I want access to a video library so I can watch any movie. That's when streaming will get my attention. Seems current services are making money on original programming that gains popularity via watercooler chatter.

    Along with the fluff like Transformers, Lord of the Rings, all sorts of animated movies, I also have stuff like No Time For Sargents, Don Knots collection, Doris Day, who remembers, or seen Matt Helm (Dean Martin). I like showing those to my kids, grandkids. I like Hulu for the old sitcoms. I fear a lot will be forgotten and lost. I can't remember the last time I've seen a Jerry Lewis movie on any channel.

    Sorry, I think my filter got turned off
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  17. #17

    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    Why isn't there a movie streaming service similar to Tidal, Spotify etc. so I can watch whatever movie pops into my head, at any time? Opposed to these video services which seem to work like HBO, you get what you get until they rotate more get what you get.
    ....
    That already exists. It is called Netflix and Amazon Prime Video. Even Tidal and Spotify don’t have everything.

  18. #18

    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    no surprise - I sold my Oppo BDP two years ago and haven't looked back. prob should upload my BDs to my server though.
    Keith, how do you upload BC's to your server. Sounds like a great idea to me.

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  19. #19
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I also have stuff like No Time For Sargents, Don Knots collection, Doris Day, who remembers, or seen Matt Helm (Dean Martin). I like showing those to my kids, grandkids. I like Hulu for the old sitcoms. I fear a lot will be forgotten and lost. I can't remember the last time I've seen a Jerry Lewis movie on any channel.
    You need to check out local digital broadcast TV channels, lots of movies like you mentioned and much more. I'm enjoying some old sci-fi movies and series on the Comet channel (and others).
    Plenty of content for me without the expense of cable
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  20. #20
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    True, with each station able to have several options, over the air is better than ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daudio View Post
    You need to check out local digital broadcast TV channels, lots of movies like you mentioned and much more. I'm enjoying some old sci-fi movies and series on the Comet channel (and others).
    Plenty of content for me without the expense of cable
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  21. #21
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    I was over at my local Best Buy Magnolia store the other day looking at 4K TV's. They said that they will have 8k TV's I believe during the summer of this year (but could be next year as I may be mistake). He said, BB will have an 8K streaming service that you can subscribe too. That is going to require a hell of a lot of bandwith. I don't think my area will be able to handle that amount of info. Our development was built in 1992.
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  22. #22
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    How good is 4k streaming? Anyone know if streaming includes HDR or Dolby Vision? I've heard the disc is better than streaming but If not side by side would anyone care.
    Both streaming and discs are compressed, yet audio on a disk is lossless and video does have higher bitrates. But it depends on a person - if you don't care about quality, that's not a big deal and you can enjoy streaming services.
    Though even if tomorrow 100% of the planet has a very fast internet speed, streaming services just can't beat physical storage since you can watch you Blu-ray disc whenever you want without internet connection. And streaming is temporary available.
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  23. #23
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Quote Originally Posted by danfish View Post
    Both streaming and discs are compressed, yet audio on a disk is lossless and video does have higher bitrates. But it depends on a person - if you don't care about quality, that's not a big deal and you can enjoy streaming services.
    Though even if tomorrow 100% of the planet has a very fast internet speed, streaming services just can't beat physical storage since you can watch you Blu-ray disc whenever you want without internet connection. And streaming is temporary available.
    IF you mean 4K Video being streamed, yep its compressed for a reason. Trying to handle uncompressed 4K video is something like 5 terabytes of data per hour.
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  24. #24
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    FYI: Netflix 4K tops out at 15Mbps. The Matrix Reloaded (2003) UHD Blu-ray has a bit rate of nearly 82Mbps for its main title. I don't need an A/B comparison to identify whether one is Netflix 4K or UHD Blu-ray - the video quality difference is immediately obvious to me.

    There is no practical uncompressed video for distribution. Even digital movie projection in theater is lossy compressed. For a 1080p movie if I remember correctly it's roughly about 500GB for a movie.
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  25. #25

    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Quote Originally Posted by danfish View Post
    ...

    Though even if tomorrow 100% of the planet has a very fast internet speed, streaming services just can't beat physical storage since you can watch you Blu-ray disc whenever you want without internet connection. And streaming is temporary available.
    You can think about it in a different way: the physical disc limits your ability to watch because you can only watch at one location: where your disc and playback device are located. In contrast, you can download content and watch it even without internet connection on your phone, tablet, computer, you name it.

    There is a saying about cameras: the best camera is the one you have when you need one. In other words, what good is having a SOTA Leica at home when you are away and need to capture your baby’s first steps?

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  26. #26
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    I have an Oppo 203 that was installed with the home automation system. We have used it no more than 5 times since installed 1 year ago. We stream movies via Apple TV.
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  27. #27
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    Can't beat the physical media for the quality. It's where it's at for now and near future. I wish there was more content and more competition on where to buy it.

  28. #28

    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    I saw a 65 inch 4K TV at Costco for $479. It was a TCL brand. Pretty crazy price. Larry
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  29. #29
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    I prefer blu-ray discs for the PQ since I view NetFlix movies on a 120" screen. Unless NetFlix stops renting blu-ray discs I'll continue using blu-ray players.
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  30. #30
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    Re: 4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

    I revisited "Mortal Engines" on 4K Blu-ray disc from a small OLED TV (65"), and spinned inside a 4K BR player (Oppo 205, now discontinued).

    It was like discovering a new master recording music album played on a "Stravinsky" turntable from Indonesia. It's a figure of speech to say "reference moving picture & sound immersion".

    The film itself lacks maturity, but the technical aspects don't.

    But true, without those few exceptions, and now with Oppo, Cambridge and Samsung 4K Blu-ray players gone, streaming 4K picture and hires multichannel audio is the popular culture.

    This physical disc is something else though...top. ...Just like quality vinyl sound.

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Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.

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The Audioshark.org Team

4K Players Are Becoming Extinct

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