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  1. #51
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garth View Post
    Oh good the grammar police are back.

    And the USA never spied on anyone right

    I like China so shoot me

    Lol ...

  2. #52
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    On one hand, I believe that if a company charges thousands of dollars for a luxury item, then it should have enough pride and respect to support its own countrymen. And not just with tax revenue.

    Yet on the flip side, I understand the reasons why companies turn to places like China for manufacturing. When you get right down to it, the only time I ever grumble over the 'made in China' sticker is when a company either misleads its customers into believing that it's not, or worse, when a company outright lies about the fact.

  3. #53

    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garth View Post
    Oh good the grammar police are back.
    The grammar police wouldn't have paid you a visit if you hadn't made the wisecrack about "stupid people' in a sentence where you had two grammatical mistakes. I hope you appreciate the irony because I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garth View Post
    And the USA never spied on anyone right
    There is a difference between spying on another country for legitimate defense reasons vice hacking into the servers of the U.S. government and the largest defense contractors. China doesn't need to invent anything or spend money on research and development, they just steal the intellectual property of other countries. There have been literally billions of dollars spent to develop the F-35 and China has hacked all of the defense companies who developed the F-35 and absconded with the data that our country and others have paid dearly for. No company is immune from the Chinese. Watches, golf clubs, purses, and clothes are all fair game to the Chinese for counterfeiting. Hollywood can't even get a new movie into the theaters before China has the DVDs for sale. If any country has intellectual property that China wants, they will steal it through any means possible.

    I know you are from Canada and I don't know how much news you read, but the U.S. is constantly prosecuting Chinese people who live in the U.S. and either work for the DoD or they are contractors who work for defense corporations because they get caught stealing classified information and sending it back to China. Whatever business you are involved with that brings you to China should have already warned you that the information on your laptop and cell phone will be compromised by the Chinese. I'm sure they already know all about you. I have already been notified that my personal information has been compromised and I have never been to China.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    "Sanctions against China for cyberattacks on the U.S. private sector could come as early as next week, U.S. officials told CNN Friday."

    But will they have any teeth?

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/04/politi...-us/index.html
    Bud

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  5. #55
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    The grammar police wouldn't have paid you a visit if you hadn't made the wisecrack about "stupid people' in a sentence where you had two grammatical mistakes. I hope you appreciate the irony because I do.



    There is a difference between spying on another country for legitimate defense reasons vice hacking into the servers of the U.S. government and the largest defense contractors. China doesn't need to invent anything or spend money on research and development, they just steal the intellectual property of other countries. There have been literally billions of dollars spent to develop the F-35 and China has hacked all of the defense companies who developed the F-35 and absconded with the data that our country and others have paid dearly for. No company is immune from the Chinese. Watches, golf clubs, purses, and clothes are all fair game to the Chinese for counterfeiting. Hollywood can't even get a new movie into the theaters before China has the DVDs for sale. If any country has intellectual property that China wants, they will steal it through any means possible.

    I know you are from Canada and I don't know how much news you read, but the U.S. is constantly prosecuting Chinese people who live in the U.S. and either work for the DoD or they are contractors who work for defense corporations because they get caught stealing classified information and sending it back to China. Whatever business you are involved with that brings you to China should have already warned you that the information on your laptop and cell phone will be compromised by the Chinese. I'm sure they already know all about you. I have already been notified that my personal information has been compromised and I have never been to China.
    You are a writer and a good one grammar is a important thing to you but not to me. Some of the smartest people I know could care less about grammar.

    As to the news it is just a point of view and once in a while it is the truth thats a bonus. The news in each part of the world is part news and mostly playing to the people in that area. In China the news is tightly controlled yet in a city park you may and can find a man with a bucket of water a brush on a long pole. He will write the news on a sunny day on the walk ways only there to read for a minute then gone.
    Is it the truth sometimes just like any other news.

    Your outrage is all your own enjoy it. Your trying to tell me I do not get it or am not in the know. In what I do I work with a small group who share info and buying power to nudge the events to what we can profit from. The market , the dollar, strikes and Governments are all part of the Game. I do not do business in board rooms I have been places so remote I am the only white guy any one has ever seen in that village. No bathrooms no five star anything hell no one star anything I have returned home so sick it takes weeks to function again once with SARS. I do it for profit a lot of it for a guy like me. Sorry you got hacked, been their done that and far worse . I like China, a lot of what you say has truth to it, but I have found far more honesty in China than any where else I have done deals. South America is a far scarier place the reason China is so in the news is money . Simply they have the most money because people like me found it safer and more profitable than any where else we could find. It is all risk and reward (luck is good to) I risk my self and my own money . Maybe I should have learned better Grammar in its place I learned a hell of a lot more and not by watching the news. I do not even own a TV . Big screen yes for movies.

    You want to watch something and learn something look the other guy in the eyes
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  6. #56
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Lets get back on topic please, and remember NO politics!!!
    Mark

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  7. #57
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Mark.......Good call. This thread has been a battle.


    Dan

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  8. #58

    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    You can't start a thread called "Made in China-Who Cares" and not expect it to quickly become political anymore than you could start a thread about a politician and expect that politics won't come up.
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  9. #59
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    You can't start a thread called "Made in China-Who Cares" and not expect it to quickly become political anymore than you could start a thread about a politician and expect that politics won't come up.
    Well it was moving right along until you mentioned the government then it got sidetracked just a little bit.
    Chris

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  10. #60
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    English is not my first language so please ignore any grammar/ mistake.


    The last time I checked, it was a hifi hobby forum.
    I went away for 3 days and ….what? 6 pages for this thread already and growing fast?


    Being a Chinese, I mean China Chinese, not one of those Asian looking guys living around the corner in your great free world coutries, it must be suicidle to post my views in such a thread. However, I will give it a try,


    The HEGEL products, I am surprised that many of you only know by now they are made in China. From day one, they are, execpt maybe(and it is a big maybe) the flagship model(H30?). I heared its manufacturing is contracted to Shanglin Audio(who makes great sounding CD players and owns YBA) based in South China. And please don't be offened if Hegel is sold off to Shanglin in a few years time. For your info, Furutech is a Japanese registered company but owned and operated by Taiwan Chinese, and Luxman too,shocked?



    My point is , why should a product be judged by its manufacture of origin and even the nationality/race/colour of its manufactuers?


    All products are “Designed by Human and Made on Earth”.


    As to counterfeit products, I am ashamed that it is what China is famous for right now,but the market is mostly to the overseas demand (non audio) .Believe me, if you knew the the business I am in, you would know that I despise those criminals as much as your guys do. The government is mostly to be blamed for it because the law imposes too little penalty on such offence 3 to 5 years imprisonment is simply not dettrent enough). But I believe it is a historical phase, and China will grow out of it.



    I still owe a Raidho X1 view post to this forum, if I am not banished by then....

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  11. #61
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Hello robhifi,


    Thanks for the post. Really interesting to read that Hegel may have contracted manufacture to Shanglin Audio of South China and to note that Shanglin has a significant shareholding in YBA, a company founded by a French electronics professor who had earlier worked for Goldmund.


    I think the point myself and others are making about Hegel is that they should be upfront, transparent and honest about where their products are made – and that they potentially do themselves a disservice by doing otherwise.


    I look forward to reading your long awaited update on the Raidho X1 loudspeakers.
    Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers, Borresen Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers with Ansuz Darkz T2s Supreme resonance control, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.

  12. #62

    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    kiwi, I understand where this train of thought is coming from, as well as idealise the simplicity, but, in my past experience I have seen LM Line Magnetic suffer from their honest approach & dismal reaction to what was actually the biggest feather in their arsenal, they actually did do sub-contracted work for Western Electric. This is the sole reason "why" their gear is sort after. It 'IS" that good!!! They have the blueprints & the formula, don't believe me, go listen. Their products transcend the gibberish & foolhardily, they are the bomb! This is one company that has already risen from the ashes, is above scrutiny & there will be more to come....

    As audiophiles, we are the last bastion in this prolific market to pass it with our approval.

  13. #63
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi_1282001 View Post
    Hello robhifi,


    Thanks for the post. Really interesting to read that Hegel may have contracted manufacture to Shanglin Audio of South China and to note that Shanglin has a significant shareholding in YBA, a company founded by a French electronics professor who had earlier worked for Goldmund.


    I think the point myself and others are making about Hegel is that they should be upfront, transparent and honest about where their products are made – and that they potentially do themselves a disservice by doing otherwise.


    I look forward to reading your long awaited update on the Raidho X1 loudspeakers.

    Long awaited indeed Kiwi and sorry for the delay.
    I just called up the dealer and it would take another 2 weeks or so for delivery from Hong kong the regional distributor to Shanghai.

    But what I promised, I will deliver.

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  14. #64
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I can't think of two solid state amps in the same price range that have a more different sound than the Mc601's and Hegel H30 - and I've owned both. The Mc601's provide endless hours of extremely musical, fatigue free listening. The Hegel is more of your "Euro" sound. Clean, precise, balanced, yet still musical. Both are awesome and I would love to own them both again!
    McIntosh 601's - monoblocks amplifiers, made in the USA - price 14kk. 93lb each monoblock.

    Hegel H30 Stereo amp, made in China - price 15k. 99lbs weight.


    McIntosh pays real wages , provides two chassis all for a cheaper price than the Hegel.

    Hegel pays cheap Chinese labor costs , provides it all in one chassis for a more expensive price.

    To me, Hegel is ripping off its customers by refusing to make it clear that they are made in China and not passing on these MUCH lower costs go the customer.

    For how I spend my money, I would never contemplate Hegel as they show a total disregard to their customers.



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  15. #65
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    McIntosh 601's - monoblocks amplifiers, made in the USA - price 14kk. 93lb each monoblock.

    Hegel H30 Stereo amp, made in China - price 15k. 99lbs weight.


    McIntosh pays real wages , provides two chassis all for a cheaper price than the Hegel.

    Hegel pays cheap Chinese labor costs , provides it all in one chassis for a more expensive price.

    To me, Hegel is ripping off its customers by refusing to make it clear that they are made in China and not passing on these MUCH lower costs go the customer.

    For how I spend my money, I would never contemplate Hegel as they show a total disregard to their customers.



    Cheers
    How would you rate the sound Hegel verses Mac just asking never heard them side by side. Would you agree with what Mike wrote.
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  16. #66

    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    McIntosh 601's - monoblocks amplifiers, made in the USA - price 14kk. 93lb each monoblock.

    Hegel H30 Stereo amp, made in China - price 15k. 99lbs weight.


    McIntosh pays real wages , provides two chassis all for a cheaper price than the Hegel.

    Hegel pays cheap Chinese labor costs , provides it all in one chassis for a more expensive price.

    To me, Hegel is ripping off its customers by refusing to make it clear that they are made in China and not passing on these MUCH lower costs go the customer.

    For how I spend my money, I would never contemplate Hegel as they show a total disregard to their customers.



    Cheers
    You would have to have detailed financial data from both companies to credibly make these claims. Just sayin'

  17. #67
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garth View Post
    How would you rate the sound Hegel verses Mac just asking never heard them side by side. Would you agree with what Mike wrote.
    Both were some of my favorite amps of all time and let's not forget which amp won my fun little blind amp shootout.

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  18. #68
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Both were some of my favorite amps of all time and let's not forget which amp won my fun little blind amp shootout.

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1441649222.241826.jpg
    Mac was my second or third amp back in the 70s MC2205 two of them and a MC32 pre I have not kept up with Mac in the last 20 years.
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  19. #69
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garth View Post
    How would you rate the sound Hegel verses Mac just asking never heard them side by side. Would you agree with what Mike wrote.
    Don't care how Hegel sounds, I would not contemplate buying them due to their lack of transparency where they are made - why do they hide the fact?

    Plenty of other great sounding amps to choose from

    Quote Originally Posted by Smile View Post
    You would have to have detailed financial data from both companies to credibly make these claims. Just sayin'
    If it does not pass the smell test. Common sense on pay rates will tell you most.
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  20. #70
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Double.
    Source: TW Raven AC-3 - Thales Simplicity II, Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,Technics SL-1000MK3D,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas SL Etna SL, Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
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    EQ: ​DEQX HDP-4
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  21. #71
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    I bought my Hegel H30 for one reason, it sounds fantastic! I didn't know where it was made, and to be honest, it makes no difference to me. I do think a product should have a place of manufacture sticker, or something like that, to show where it is made.
    But I'm sure as Hell not going to sell it.
    Mark

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  22. #72
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Well it is much better than made in Norway and designed in China.
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  23. #73
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Ha haaa , good one ....

  24. #74

    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    I remarked on the Audiogon thread that there was some subtle racism/xenophobia going on, and the butt-sore screeching reaction I got from one of the resident gas-bags there about my "lack of character" was LMFAO funny.


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  25. #75
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Correction. Hegel's manufacturing is actually contracted to the Beijing based Opera Audio(owner of the Consonance brand) instead of Shanglin as mentioned in my previous post.
    The rumour is that Opera is also involved in the design.

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  26. #76

    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?



    hegel.... should burn just as good as the rest of em'....
    Attached Images Attached Images

  27. #77
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Welcome to the forum geallan70, thank you for joining.
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  28. #78

    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    ^^^

    thx joe

  29. #79
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    My biggest issue with China is the counterfeiting, it's such a huge problem and costs legit enterprises in all sorts of different industries amazing amount of money. Also, the computer hacking, environmental and human rights abuses are hard to ignore.

    But that said you can't say that all Chinese companies are the same, just like anywhere there will be good and bad so I don't condemn all Chinese goods. I would prefer to buy goods that are made in the USA and I will pay a premium for it, within reason. I also don't appreciate American companies who outsource, especially if they could be manufacturing in the USA for the prices they charge.
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  30. #80
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    [COLOR=white !important][IMG]chrome://pbk/content/blackbar_original_2_loadconfig_error.png[/IMG][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=white !important][IMG]chrome://pbk/content/blackbar_original_2_loadconfig.png[/IMG][/COLOR]
    I was just looking thru the TAS Recommended list sparked by Mikes post earlier today about Triode Corp.

    There are several Ads for Hegel gear but whoever writes this stuff speaks another language.

    "The new integrated amplifier is one of the most versatile and well sounding reproducers on the market"

    Can anyone explain what "Well Sounding" means?
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  31. #81
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    I was just looking thru the TAS Recommended list sparked by Mikes post earlier today about Triode Corp.

    There are several Ads for Hegel gear but whoever writes this stuff speaks another language.

    "The new integrated amplifier is one of the most versatile and well sounding reproducers on the market"

    Can anyone explain what "Well Sounding" means?
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  32. #82
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    "Well sounding" obviously means that the sound is NOT on medication despite experiencing the occasional fever.
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  33. #83
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    I wonder what MFG has the "Sickest" sounding reproducers?
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  34. #84

    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    A friend of mine actually talked about this with an Hegel employee. He said that they could NOT produce their products with the same high quality standard in Norway as they do in China. One option would be to make their products in Sweden but that would make them WAY more expensive.

    What you have to realize is that Hegel concists of like 7 guys, not more. Comparing them to a mega-brand like McIntosh isn't fair. It's like comparing IBM and Apple back in the 70s.

    I hope this makes it clear why Hegel is not manufactured in Norway.

  35. #85

    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    I am a huge fan of Hegel and an owner of a Hegel H160. While it doesn't bother me the H160 may be built in China it does bother me that Hegel is not open & transparent on where they manufacture.

  36. #86

    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    What is funny is that we usually think China = cheap and bad quality. Look at Apple though, they make maybe the best consumer electronics in the world and no-one ever questions them, and why should they? Their products are amazing. Chinese high tech factories are hard to compete with for Europe and the US today, that´s just facts, add the cheap labor and its a no-brainer for companies to have their production over there. Ethically you could have a problem with it, but thats another thing. Capitalism in it's finest colors.

    I agree that it is kind of deceiving not to market Hegel products as made in China. Why not just do as Apple, Designed in Oslo, Norway, assembled in China. I have had the H80 and it was great. Now I have the H300 and it's a power house!

  37. #87
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by little_mac View Post

    I agree that it is kind of deceiving not to market Hegel products as made in China. Why not just do as Apple, Designed in Oslo, Norway, assembled in China. [...]
    When your friend is next talking to the Hegel employee why don't you ask him to pass on that thought? Hegel's current labelling practice is deceiving and should be changed with wording exactly as you have suggested.
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  38. #88

    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi_1282001 View Post
    When your friend is next talking to the Hegel employee why don't you ask him to pass on that thought? Hegel's current labelling practice is deceiving and should be changed with wording exactly as you have suggested.
    Ok, so I got an official answer from Hegel and here it is translated from norwegian to english:

    Hi Markus

    Thank you for your inquiry.

    Our products have parts of from all over the world, indeed also from Norway . But our products are assembled ​​in China. We have not had any need to write up all of the specific parts origins in our components and therefore has not done so. We are Norwegian and work out of Oslo as it says on the back of our products.

    Sincerely / Best regards
    Hegel Music System AS

  39. #89
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by little_mac View Post
    Ok, so I got an official answer from Hegel and here it is translated from norwegian to english:

    Hi Markus

    Thank you for your inquiry.

    Our products have parts of from all over the world, indeed also from Norway . But our products are assembled ​​in China. We have not had any need to write up all of the specific parts origins in our components and therefore has not done so. We are Norwegian and work out of Oslo as it says on the back of our products.

    Sincerely / Best regards
    Hegel Music System AS
    Regardless, IMHO, their stuff sounds great.
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  40. #90

    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    I heard the new Hegel integrated amplifier at the Florida Audio Expo yesterday and was impressed. However, after discovering it is made in China, it's a No Sale for me. China has stolen huge amounts of intellectual property from the US and likely other countries as well. Unfortunately, not buying anything made in China is almost impossible. But, when it comes to expensive audio equipment, I'll pass.

  41. #91
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    Welcome to the forum.

    The Hegel 590, especially, is awesome.
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  42. #92
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    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    I only care if the labeling supports the full practice so I can make a decision on what I want to do.

    And it’s important to understand what the label means. Products can assume identities of the originating country even if work was done in part overseas and shipped to the originating country for final assembly.
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  43. #93

    Re: Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

    I've softened a lot on my stance with high-end audio products made in China. There are companies that take what are essentially Chinese products, designed (if you can call it that) and made by Chinese owned / run factories, and slap their own badge on it. Maybe they get to specify the colors and other superficial aspects, but it's pretty obvious to see through. These are generally very bad products.

    Then there are companies that really design their own quality products, and work much more closely with Chinese factories to outsource their production and ensure quality. These can be excellent.

    I love Audioquest cables, even though their main assembly is done in China. Can't fault them; they're great cables. But the counterfeiting issue is indeed a side-effect of this. By all accounts companies like Hegel and Prima Luna also do a great job ensuring a quality product.

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