Thread: Souping up the Audeze LCD 3's

Hi-

I have been using a pair of LCD 3's for a few years now.
Not making the best use as the cord is too short in my listening environment and an inexpensive extension does a number on the SQ.

So, i'd like to grab an after market cable in the 15 to 20 foot range. Under consideration are Moon's Silver Dragon, DH Labs and Cardas Clear. A DIY is also in the mix using the Cardas bulk cable.

Also considering a dedicated headphone amp; Bryston/Woo22/McIntosh 200.

Any input is welcome.

Thank you.

Ignoring other aspects of the sound character, in theory you should look for the cable with the lowest capacitance and inductance, with some reasonable amount of shielding. Given the length of cable you're looking at. The manufacturer should be able to share that information with you.

As for balanced vs. single-ended, whichever output connection on the dedicated headphone amp has the better performance should dictate that. The LCD-3 will benefit from a high quality dedicated headphone amp.

I have had several of the Moon cables. I use either Blue or Black; the one silver I had did not seem to make a difference to me. I have both a pair of Audeze LCD-3's and a pair of Abyss Diana Phi's. My biggest suggestion is to use a balanced cable if at all possible.

If you do end up going with the Bryston know that only half of it's amp is being used with a single ended cable and you need to use it balanced to get what the amp can do. I have had the Bryston, a SimAudio, Dennis Had, SPL, etc. I currently have a Woo WA22 (2nd Gen) and consider it the best headphone amplifier I have owned. I have recently been playing with some tube rolling. This amp responds well to changing tubes and hearing sound changes!

Thank you Neko and Randy.

For now I have some low cap, very inexpensive Carnare mic cable coming that will utilize Switchcraft mini xlr's and a gold Neutrik 1/4" phone plug. I've always used "audiophile" type cable and connectors for my home made cables but have been interested in how lower cost stuff competes. As an old fashion shop teacher, I like DIY. Guess I'll connect the shield on the 1/4" negative end and let it float on the xlr's. The 1/4 can always be replaced with a 4 pin or 2 3 pin xlr's.

As far as a dedicated headphone amp, I'm thinking McIntosh. Plan to take a ride upstate to Audio Classics for a listen. Great day trip especially in the fall foliage.

Randy, I'll give Broom County a big "Hello" from you!

Enjoy the Sounds

John

Thank you sir... the last time I visited was two years ago but didn't get a chance to look around much.

I thought the McIntosh looks interesting! I am very happy with the Woo, which is built closer to your neck of the woods (I know they are located somewhere downstate). Mc is Mc so I am sure it will be built well. The Woo will probably have more tube rolling capability, but both should be top notch gear. They also sell for the exact same price .

Originally Posted by JohnJ

For now I have some low cap, very inexpensive Carnare mic cable coming that will utilize Switchcraft mini xlr's and a gold Neutrik 1/4" phone plug. [snip] Guess I'll connect the shield on the 1/4" negative end and let it float on the xlr's. The 1/4 can always be replaced with a 4 pin or 2 3 pin xlr's.

The 1/4" phone plug should be a TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) for use with an unbalanced/single-ended 1/4" headphone jack. This means you should have tip = left, ring = right, and sleeve = ground.

At the headphone end, the LCD-3 will accept a 4-pin mini XLR. It won't accept a 3-pin mini XLR. My understanding is that this is wired as pin 1 and 4 positive/signal, and pin 2 and 3 negative/ground. Nothing floating. (I say understanding as I've never terminated a cable for 4-pin mini XLR myself, only for 3-pin mini XLR. So I'm going off other people's information.)

Head-Fi has a good reference for this: DIY Cable Info and Resources.

Right you are Randy. As the crow flies Woo is closer to me; time wise most likely less but the drive is not as scenic. The Woo 22 looks very interesting and will certainly make the final decision more difficult. Tube roling is something I am trying to avoid given my choice of pre and power amps. Anyway, I have followed your headphone amp reviews for several years now and certainly they weigh high in the decision making.

Neko correct on the wiring of the mini xlr's. I verified it last evening using a VOM Box with the original Audeze cable. The cable and connectors arrived today; really tight on those mini's. The cable is a two conductor with braided shield so I'll probably run a 6 inch piece of four wires (stripped of outer covering and shield)into each xlr and then slice in the rest into. i may or may not connect the braided shield on the negative side of the TRS. Seems like the jury is out on whether a shield is necessary on headphones. In any event, it will not be connected at the mini xlr end, just "float."

Well, i 'll keep thing posted and again I say thank you for the insight!

John

I’ve got the McIntosh MHA 200 in order. No delivery date yet. Should be fun.

Tom-

Cool!
How do you plan to hook it up?
From the XLR outs of the C1100?

John

I was definitely intrigued by the McIntosh... but then... on the way to the LA show with a couple friends we stopped by Shelley's Stereo.... they just happened to have Woo in stock... I could not resist ....

The one thing I do like is that Woo always has seemed to be a headphone amplifier specialist . I also like that it is a fully-balanced design, class-A, transformer-coupled, point-to-point wiring, and pseudo-dual power supply. These definitely set the Woo apart from much of the competition.

Originally Posted by JohnJ

i may or may not connect the braided shield on the negative side of the TRS. Seems like the jury is out on whether a shield is necessary on headphones. In any event, it will not be connected at the mini xlr end, just "float."

Oh, I just realized I misunderstood which signal you meant when you said "float on the xlr's". Sorry.

Yes - XLR’s from the C1100 to the MHA 200. I’m going to put a balanced 4 pin XLR on one of my headphone cables on place of the 1/4” stereo plug. Still o ship date - the MHA 200 is on back order.

I am interested in hearing your impressions of the MHA200.

The cables have been completed with a final length of 17 feet. So far happy with the sound and it seems at least as good as the original cable. More on this as they settle in.
The braided shield was not connected at either end. With use, modifications can be made easily.

Going forward, the 1/4 inch can be cut off and a 4 pole xlr installed or two 3 pole xlr's. Any reason to use one 4 pole or two 3 poles?

I used Carnare L2T2S for the cabling. Not having connected the shield, something like L2E5 that has a foil shield and slightly smaller gauge wires may have worked as well and being less bulky, easier to work with.

Now onward to an amp.

You should enjoy your LCD-3's with whichever amp you decide on. You are looking at some good ones. Not sure on advantage or disadvantage of 2x 3-pin XLR versus 4-pins. I have always used 4-pin when running balanced. I prefer balanced versus single ended and with some amplifiers it is almost a requirement (Bryston anyone ).

I have been using the LCD-3's mainly portable at work, and the Abyss at home. This is strange because the Diana Phi's may very well be the finest compact headphones in the world while compact and LCD-3 should never be said in the same sentence .

This does make sense though because the Audeze has higher sensitivity so they are easier for the Astell&Kern to get them up and running. The Abyss are soooooo good though that I really prefer listening to them with the Woo.

If I am in a real rare mood and want to rock the house down then that definitely calls the Audeze into duty. They are very good at letting some rock rip!

Originally Posted by JohnJ

Going forward, the 1/4 inch can be cut off and a 4 pole xlr installed or two 3 pole xlr's. Any reason to use one 4 pole or two 3 poles?

It's really just down to the amplifier design. I think most older amps had two 3-pin XLRs while new amps have consolidated to 4-pin XLRs to save space.

Originally Posted by NekoAudio

It's really just down to the amplifier design. I think most older amps had two 3-pin XLRs while new amps have consolidated to 4-pin XLRs to save space.

Ok, that makes senses. I doubted that it could be any kind of performance differences. I think the Sennheiser HD800S that I owned where the first I had that came with a balanced cable also. It worked well and I liked the solidity of the connection a lot better than the 1/4"... I have seen 1/4" connections wear out, etc.

Thanks for the comments Randy and Neko.
Having the two separate cables makes it easy for dual 3 pole termination. The final decision will be determined by a call to the manufacturer on what ever/when ever unit I wind up with.

On another note, this cable is a little on the heavy side; looping it over my shoulder takes the weight off.

Never found a cable helped the LCD-3 , which I own, even using bal on my BHA-1.What did help was a new pair of ear pads. Dekoni Elite Velour replacement earpads for the Audeze LCD Series

Originally Posted by CPP

Never found a cable helped the LCD-3 , which I own, even using bal on my BHA-1.What did help was a new pair of ear pads. Dekoni Elite Velour replacement earpads for the Audeze LCD Series

I agree that cables have a limited amount of improvements in my view also. Therefore I find that the Moon Blue or Black dragon work just fine versus the expense of the silver (I haver had a silver in the past).

With your Bryston you should notice a big difference using a balanced cable although. The BHA-1 only uses half of its amplifier circuits with the SE connection and engages the entire amplifier with using a balanced cable.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I agree that cables have a limited amount of improvements in my view also. Therefore I find that the Moon Blue or Black dragon work just fine versus the expense of the silver (I haver had a silver in the past).

With your Bryston you should notice a big difference using a balanced cable although. The BHA-1 only uses half of its amplifier circuits with the SE connection and engages the entire amplifier with using a balanced cable.

Oh yes with the Bryston a little extra power on Bal, ** and that really makes the 800s and my 820s and the HE6V11 work. But the LCD-3, the pads made the biggest difference if bal is utilized maybe its was a comfort thing.




** The big advantage of using the balanced outputs on the BHA1 is the doubling in output voltage, as you have two class A amplifiers driving the output rather than one. This doubling in voltage actually results in a 4 times increase in power, since power is proportional to voltage squared.

This applies to both the 3-pin XLR connectors and the 4-pin XLR connect.

I am actually selling my brand new LCD-3's.

Audeze LCD-3 Fazor (virtual new) with extra cables

Excellent headphones but I like the Abyss better. Initially I thought it would be nice to have a couple headphones to switch back and forth but quickly decided that I prefer to stick with one.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I am actually selling my brand new LCD-3's.

Audeze LCD-3 Fazor (virtual new) with extra cables

Excellent headphones but I like the Abyss better. Initially I thought it would be nice to have a couple headphones to switch back and forth but quickly decided that I prefer to stick with one.

Mine have been sold for a few months. Saving up for my ZMF Verite

I am a tad torn. If someone wanted them at pretty much my price I would sell. I am thinking about maybe keeping them. A very nice alternative to my Abyss.

I have actually gotten rid of my LCD-3's. They were a very nice headphone but I very much preferred my Abyss. I was using them at work, but honestly they were quite bulky for work. I have a pair of Audeze Euclid's coming (probably today) as my portable pair for use with the Astell&Kern. I guess the Euclid's are very hard to find... most dealers sold out, Audeze on back order, etc. I prefer to not carry my $4000 Abyss headphones to work every day which I actually had been doing before getting the LCD-3's.

I did have a pair of LCD-i4's before which were a nice sounding ear buds; I simply did not like the design and ear hook things to hold them in place. I think the Euclid with the more conventional design should work better.

Randy-

Best of audiophile bliss with your new headphones. It's amazing how many factors go into our decisions along this road and how one size will not fit all. Discussions like this certainly aid to narrow the choices.

Currently working on the headphone cable v2.

Enjoy the Sounds

John

Originally Posted by JohnJ

Randy-

Best of audiophile bliss with your new headphones. It's amazing how many factors go into our decisions along this road and how one size will not fit all. Discussions like this certainly aid to narrow the choices.

Currently working on the headphone cable v2.

Enjoy the Sounds

John

It's amazing how many factors go into our decisions along this road and how one size will not fit all.

So very true when it comes to the headphones themselves. Our hearing and comfort level ( weight & band pressure, ear pads shape and comfort and type of ear pads) plays a huge part.