WBF Insanity

[Alpinist]

Just when you think things couldn't get any worse on WBF, they have!

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...-are-the-Facts

[Mike]

As I said on another thread:

It's a Sh!t show over there. Unbelievable. A real coup d'état followed by another coup d'état. I feel bad for whoever the F... truly runs the site. It's not easy and they don't need this migraine sized headache.

This is supposed to be a fun hobby. Chill, grab your favorite beverage and spin some tunes.

Coup d'état on an audio website. LMAO. As if the rest of the world didn't have enough reasons to laugh at us nutty audiophiles.



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[Alpinist]

Apparently, Ron has the invoice and Steve has been the owner since Day 1. Amir has apparently hacked the website and taken full control of WBF, at least for the meantime. You can't make this stuff up!

Mike, we appreciate your steady hand over here on Audio Shark. There's never any question who's running the show. Plus you have great moderators.

[Mike]

It's sad all the private messages they posted too in their bickering.


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[Mike]

Mike, we appreciate your steady hand over here on Audio Shark. There's never any question who's running the show. Plus you have great moderators.

Thanks Ken. Joe and Mark are the best.


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[Mike]

Wasn't Amir saying first that Steve locked him out first?Quite the cat & mouse game. Confusing and sad.


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[BlueFox]

The funny part is it seems this all evolved over the last year due to people trying to shove measurements down people's throat.

[Mike]

The funny part is it seems this all evolved over the last year due to people trying to shove measurements down people's throat.

Objectivists are fighters.
Subjectivists are lovers.



All kidding aside, of course we look at specs and measurements, but we don't use them to prove someone "wrong" about their preferences or tastes.

Tube amps don't always measure stellar, but they sure sound wonderful to my ears.


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[Mike]

As F. Scott Fitzgerald said, "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."**

That sounds like AS to me.


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[Ritmo]

Maybe the time has come to shut it down. Yes, sad but sometimes termination is the correct action.

[Zero]

Drama at the WBF? People arguing about cables in another? People who own $50,000 stereo systems that claim they aren't audiophiles? Some things will remain a constant variable - yet the world keeps on' spinnin' just fine.

[Mike]

Sean - it's much more than people arguing about cables. It's a real Sh!t show.


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[Dizzie]

I thought the only thing funny about their humor thread was the fact that two guys were fighting on it.


How is Steve W. posting if he was shut out?

[Zero]

Mike - Oh I know. Just trying to make light of a situation that none of us have to deal with.

[Mike]

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[Myles B. Astor]

Apparently, Ron has the invoice and Steve has been the owner since Day 1. Amir has apparently hacked the website and taken full control of WBF, at least for the meantime. You can't make this stuff up!

Mike, we appreciate your steady hand over here on Audio Shark. There's never any question who's running the show. Plus you have great moderators.

The more you know, the less that makes sense. The real story has yet to come out IMHO.

[MikeCh]

Most certainly a bizarre situation over there.

[Steve]

Objectivists are fighters.
Subjectivists are lovers.



All kidding aside, of course we look at specs and measurements, but we don't use them to prove someone "wrong" about their preferences or tastes.

Tube amps don't always measure stellar, but they sure sound wonderful to my ears.


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That right. You should only do that to manufacturers if there is an objection about their claims!

As for the Pakistani Terrorist and Dr. Evil, the cleaners will always shoot the terrorist in the head first.

[Mike]

It just seems to be going from bad to worse.

[CPP]

Wow I read that thread and from what I observed it reminded me of a bunch of men acting like children and bickering old women. Talk about an insult to all things audio. If a outsider read that crap, it would confirm that audiophiles are really bitchy old guys that can't get along and cannot not respect a persons opinion. Thank god it is not like that here on the Shark where we respect each other.

Where is TMZ when you need them

[rbbert]

...If a outsider read that crap, it would confirm that audiophiles are really bitchy old guys that can't get along and cannot not respect a persons opinion....

While I agree that this behavior is despicable, one could also interpret the whole "episode" as
evidence of the importance WBF has in their lives?

[CPP]

While I agree that this behavior is despicable, one could also interpret the whole "episode" as
evidence of the importance WBF has in their lives?

Rob who's lives, Steve and amir or the outsider who is reading this for the first time ?

When a "founder" hacks into the site and changes access privileges for the actual owner now that is despicable

[nc42acc]

Chris have you ever attended an audio show?

Wow I read that thread and from what I observed it reminded me of a bunch of men acting like children and bickering old women. Talk about an insult to all things audio. If a outsider read that crap, it would confirm that audiophiles are really bitchy old guys that can't get along and cannot not respect a persons opinion. Thank god it is not like that here on the Shark where we respect each other.

Where is TMZ when you need them

[Mike]

Is this not a case for why Business Partnerships rarely work, I don't know what is.

It seemed to me, looking back, that there were some real shi!t disturbers like Buzzard that just whirled things up like a tornado of antagonistic destruction.

[CPP]

Chris have you ever attended an audio show?

Yes Marty.

[rbbert]

Rob who's lives, Steve and amir or the outsider who is reading this for the first time ?

When a "founder" hacks into the site and changes access privileges for the actual owner now that is despicable

As far as what's going on in the business and software aspects of WBF I doubt more than a handful of people (if that) know the whole story, and for now I'm withholding any opinions other than that. I do think the WBF of old was an enjoyable, interesting and informative audio forum; what if anything it will be in the future remains to be seen, obviously.

...It seemed to me, looking back, that there were some real shi!t disturbers like Buzzard that just whirled things up like a tornado of antagonistic destruction.

Undoubtedly true, and although heavy-handed moderation is usually not a desirable forum characteristic (hint, hint ) it might have been useful in this case

[CPP]

As far as what's going on in the business and software aspects of WBF I doubt more than a handful of people (if that) know the whole story, and for now I'm withholding any opinions other than that. I do think the WBF of old was an enjoyable, interesting and informative audio forum; what if anything it will be in the future remains to be seen, obviously.

WBF of old, very enjoyable and informative.

[nc42acc]

Sorry Chris, it was suppose to be funny. See you at Axpona?

Yes Marty.

[bonzo]

Is this not a case for why Business Partnerships rarely work, I don't know what is.

It seemed to me, looking back, that there were some real shi!t disturbers like Buzzard that just whirled things up like a tornado of antagonistic destruction.

This is true. What happened was not objectivism vs subjectivism - that happens on most forums. Thing is, one or two members under the guise of objectivism started antagonising everyone. Every vinyl thread would have "but vinyl is crap, you will never be able to tell it apart in a blind test and you use it only coz you are an old traditional touchy feely nostalgic Joe (no Joe, not you))". It was such posts, rather than actually objectively challenging based on experience or measurements, and the fact that these anatagonists would be protected from not being banned because they were supposed to be objectivists challenging the norm, that drove the final nail in the coffin.

[AJ Soundfield]

I would suggest a duel at 50 paces between the protagonists, one armed with a turntable, the other a CD player.

[nc42acc]

Platters vs plastic discs, I like it.

I would suggest a duel at 50 paces between the protagonists, one armed with a turntable, the other a CD player.

[AJ Soundfield]

Platters vs plastic discs, I like it.

Well, vinyl vs CD, thrown at each other like ninja stars.
The vinyl would have the advantage in weight and accuracy, but you could rapid fire the CDs.

[still-one]

As I posted there. It is hard to understand how individuals who are accomplished in business can act like bickering teenage schoolgirls on that site is beyond understanding.

[Mike]

As I posted there. It is hard to understand how individuals who are accomplished in business can act like bickering teenage schoolgirls on that site is beyond understanding.

You should hear Joe and I argue:

Mike: "Joe, I bet those Class D amps of yours suck."
Joe: "No, they really don't."
Mike: "ok, I would love to hear them."

Katy bar the door!

[Myles B. Astor]

This is true. What happened was not objectivism vs subjectivism - that happens on most forums. Thing is, one or two members under the guise of objectivism started antagonising everyone. Every vinyl thread would have "but vinyl is crap, you will never be able to tell it apart in a blind test and you use it only coz you are an old traditional touchy feely nostalgic Joe (no Joe, not you))". It was such posts, rather than actually objectively challenging based on experience or measurements, and the fact that these anatagonists would be protected from not being banned because they were supposed to be objectivists challenging the norm, that drove the final nail in the coffin.

1 or 2???

[rbbert]

1 or 2???

More than one or two, but not a lot more. The main combatants on one side were few in number but made up for it by sheer persistence, obstinacy and number/volume of posts (not only were the posts numerous, they tended to take up more of the page). And it was mostly the same post over and over and over again, just juggling the words around. Sheesh!

[joeinid]

You should hear Joe and I argue:

Mike: "Joe, I bet those Class D amps of yours suck."
Joe: "No, they really don't."
Mike: "ok, I would love to hear them."

Katy bar the door!

Ha!

These Nord One Up amps with the Sparkos op amp are really good. I can send them to you for your Magico speakers

[audio.bill]

Ha!

These Nord One Up amps with the Sparkos op amp are really good. I can send them to you for your Magico speakers

Hey Joe - I thought you were keeping those a secret from AS since I only saw you post about them on other forums. Now the secret's out!

[Myles B. Astor]

More than one or two, but not a lot more. The main combatants on one side were few in number but made up for it by sheer persistence, obstinacy and number/volume of posts (not only were the posts numerous, they tended to take up more of the page). And it was mostly the same post over and over and over again, just juggling the words around. Sheesh!

Guess we will have to agree to disagree on that point but I can easily come up with 12 trolls.

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[nc42acc]

Myles that is the main core group on WBF, hope I didn't get classified in that since I post on WBF.


I may be an Ogre but I am not a Troll.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree on that point but I can easily come up with 12 trolls.

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[mep]

Here is one thing I know and that is none of us have the real facts of the financial relationships over there, but neither does it really matter anyway. In the grand scheme of this hobby, the money it takes to start a forum is less than peanuts and the value of a forum if you could sell it to someone is worth just about the same. The money you put out upfront is the yearly cost of the software to run the forum and the cost of the ISP who is hosting your forum. The recurring costs you incur every month/year for the ISP and the software don't add to the value of the forum if you choose to sell it just as you don't get to inflate the cost of a used car you are selling because you put gas in it for years and kept the maintenance up on it. The last I knew, all mods work for free and if you had to pay them they would be a liability for the sale because these forums usually don't generate any revenue.

This fight is all about ego in my opinion. Who cares if you own something worth $2K or less and you want to fight about it and threaten lawsuits that will cost you far more than the intrinsic worth of what you are fighting over? I would value my sanity at more than $2k and just start another forum if that was my goal in life.

[Mike]

Mark, it's just a sad state of affairs at the We Bicker Forum.

It's supposed to be a fun hobby.


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[nc42acc]

Ok guys I am going to look at the WBF debacle in a glass half full light. At least they have a tremendous amount of passion for their forum.

[mep]

Mike-Agreed it is a sad state of affairs, but the boiler has been stoked for a long time now and has reached a full head of steam. The biggest mouths on that forum are all of the guys with the worst stereo systems and they wouldn't know great sound from a desktop computer system. 99.9% of the "objectivists" who claim they love them some measurements and all purchasing decisions should be made after double blind tests/unsighted listening tests are conducted after they have exhumed the bones of Julian Hirsch and propped him up in the corner of the listening room are full of crap. Many of them are clueless on how to interpret measurements but want to be part of the objectivist gang. And I would bet money that not one of them has ever bought any stereo component based on unsighted listening tests so they are all just a bunch of hypocritical sanctimonious windbags just like politicians. It's all crap, but the crap never ends and they just keep the endless supply of crap in the air and thrown around.

[mep]

Ok guys I am going to look at the WBF debacle in a glass half full light. At least they have a tremendous amount of passion for their forum.

No, they have a tremendous passion for arguing. If locked threads were like jail cells at a maximum security prison, WBF would have more locked jail cells.

[rbbert]

The funny thing about that post, Mark, is that by all accounts Julian Hirsch was a full-on subjectivist in his private life and with his personal stereo system. He just thought that measurements were better for Stereo Review's image (and of course to advertisers as well).

I would disagree that it's "all" about ego, except for the s__tstirrers; most of the interesting posters there (who are mostly here too, for that matter) just want to discuss music and stereo stuff in a positive way. I have no problems with disagreement, but I really don't want to get continually bashed over the head with it, especially by know-nothings.

[mep]

The funny thing about that post, Mark, is that by all accounts Julian Hirsch was a full-on subjectivist in his private life and with his personal stereo system. He just thought that measurements were better for Stereo Review's image (and of course to advertisers as well).

I would disagree that it's "all" about ego, except for the s__tstirrers; most of the interesting posters there (who are mostly here too, for that matter) just want to discuss music and stereo stuff in a positive way. I have no problems with disagreement, but I really don't want to get continually bashed over the head with it, especially by know-nothings.

Rob-Julian Hirsch was famous for saying that if components measured the same they sounded the same. I'm pretty sure he is the father of "all amplifiers sound the same." As for WBF, the only thing that puzzles me is why the really good people haven't left yet and leave WBF to those who helped it burn down to the ground.

[Joe P]

Myles that is the main core group on WBF, hope I didn't get classified in that since I post on WBF.


I may be an Ogre but I am not a Troll.

Myles left WBF before you joined.

[Steve]

Mike...If they come here, they need to be tattooed first, like a knife cut into the forehead as executed by Brad Pitt in that awesome movie.

[mep]

Mike...If they come here, they need to be tattooed first, like a knife cut into the forehead as executed by Brad Pitt in that awesome movie.

Some of the good people already post here. Mike is smart enough to weed out the riff-raff.