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  1. #1

    To jab or not to jab

    Thread for the discussion of the COVID vaccines within the guidelines of the forum. No politics and no conspiracy theories that are unproven and hence useless to the topic please. It will take some effort to get around politics of course but please do try and spare Mike from having to moderate and close this thread down.

    I'll start. I'd like to point out one very obvious fact...

    2019 and before COVID came to town.


    Summary
    In 2019, a total of 2,854,838 resident deaths were registered in the United States—15,633 more deaths than in 2018. From 2018 to 2019, the age-adjusted death rate for the total population decreased 1.2%, and life expectancy at birth increased 0.1 year. Age-specific death rates between 2018 and 2019 decreased for age groups 45–54, 65–74, 75–84, and 85 and over, and increased for age group 35–44. Age-adjusted death rates decreased for non-Hispanic black males and females and non-Hispanic white males and females.

    The 10 leading causes of death in 2019 remained the same as in 2018, although 2 causes exchanged ranks. Influenza and pneumonia, the eighth leading cause in 2018, became the ninth leading cause in 2019, while kidney disease, the ninth leading cause in 2018, became the eighth leading cause in 2019 (1). Age-adjusted death rates decreased for seven leading causes and increased for one. Life expectancy at birth increased 0.1 year from 78.7 years in 2018 to 78.8 in 2019, largely because of decreases in mortality from cancer, chronic lower respiratory diseases, influenza and pneumonia, suicide, and stroke.




    Mortality Rates 2020 with COVID in town topped 3 Million and is estimated at 3.2 Million.


    Population US 2019 328.2 million



    Population US 2020 330million


    Population US 2021 (so far....) 331 Million


    Top leading causes of death 2020 Top causes of death in the United States in 2020: Heart disease, cancer and COVID-19






    How many tests were false positive??? Potential for False Positive Results with Antigen Tests for Rapid Detection of SARS-CoV-2 - Letter to Clinical Laboratory Staff and Health Care Providers | FDA
    Serge

  2. #2

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    How many people die from medical malpractice yearly?


    Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S. Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S. - 05/03/2016


    nalyzing medical death rate data over an eight-year period, Johns Hopkins patient safety experts have calculated that more than 250,000 deaths per year are due to medical error in the U.S. Their figure, published May 3 in The BMJ, surpasses the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC’s) third leading cause of death — respiratory disease, which kills close to 150,000 people per year.
    Serge

  3. #3

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    More facts.

    In the period March 15, 2020 - March 15, 2021 the number of actual deaths in the US exceeded the expected number of deaths, based on a 5 year average, by 565,000. In addition, during that period, 484,000 deaths were reported due to COVID.

    My opinion.

    The number of deaths due to COVID are understated. Of course, defining a COVID death is complicated since one could argue that if hospitals are at capacity and cannot treat a patient with another illness could might have otherwise survived it should be called a COVID death.
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  4. #4

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Perhaps a better way to proceed would be to ask the question...why would you NOT get vaccinated against a potentially deadly infection if you have the opportunity to do that??
    The answer from Anti-Vaxers is going to be dependent on a number of personal issues...including religious beliefs, conspiracy theories ( to which there are always numerous numbers of these), long and short term safety concerns and other social mores that may or may not be a factor.
    Looking at statistics is interesting, BUT if YOU happen to be the one in a million that is impacted, try then arguing that it is a conspiracy theory and only happens to someone else...

  5. #5

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    How To Overcome Vaccine Hesitancy and Barriers in Hawaiʻi? Targeted Communication, UH Report Says

    March 23, 2021, 12:12 PM HST


    Targeted communications strategies may hold the key to encouraging more eligible people to get vaccinated, according to a recent UH report: “Communicating about COVID-19 Vaccinations: Recommendations for Hawaiʻi.”

    UH Reserachers conducted a study to find out what are the barriers and hesitancy of people getting the COVID-19 vaccine in Hawaii.

    With COVID-19 vaccines now more readily available in Hawaiʻi, the state’s next major public health challenge is getting people vaccinated and overcoming vaccine hesitancy. To address this issue, a team of researchers at the University of Hawai‘i Mānoa College of Social Sciences conducted a study that found targeted communications strategies may hold the key to encouraging more eligible people to get vaccinated.

    The study, “Communicating about COVID-19 Vaccinations: Recommendations for Hawaiʻi,” identified four primary types of barriers to vaccination:

    Access: Problems associated with actually getting vaccinated, such as difficulty in traveling to vaccination sites or scheduling appointments, or vaccine shortages.

    Perceived harm: Concerns about the safety of or negative impact of the vaccine on health.

    Mistrust: Beliefs that the government, scientists, pharmaceutical companies or medical establishments are not trustworthy and/or that vaccines are neither necessary nor effective.

    Specific Beliefs: The belief that the vaccine was developed “too fast” and thus may not be safe.

    Researchers looked at data from Hawaiʻi adults who have not yet received the vaccine to identify common barriers and provided communication strategies to address them as part of UH’s Health Policy Initiative. Research team members include:

    Jessica Gasiorek, associate professor, Department of Communicology
    Amy Ebesu Hubbard, professor and chair, Department of Communicology
    Hye-ryeon Lee, professor, Department of Communicology
    Ruben Juarez, professor, Department of Economics and UHERO
    Jack Barile, interim director, Social Science Research Institute; associate professor, Department of Psychology

    “Here in Hawaiʻi, 31% of the adult population have received at least one dose, and 36% have indicated that they will definitely get the vaccine,” report co-author Professor Ebesu Hubbard said.

    Professor Lee added: “The complication is that, while individuals may say they will get a vaccine, for several reasons, they may not be able to follow through. This issue, along with 30% of Hawaiʻi adults expressing hesitancy about receiving a vaccine, is a concern.”

    “Will definitely get the vaccine”

    36% of respondents reported they will “definitely” get the vaccine. This group, which tends to be older, primarily faces access barriers, such as the inability to obtain a vaccination appointment due to a lack of computer access/skills or busy phone lines; the need for transportation to and from a vaccination site; or the inability to take off time from work.

    Messaging to this group should come from trusted sources such as the Department of Health, scientists, medical professionals, professional/organizational leaders and community leaders. It should focus on reducing access barriers and providing concrete “calls to action.” For example, clearly announcing when new groups are eligible; informing the public that assistance is available to make online vaccination appointments and when transportation is available to and from vaccination sites; and encouraging employers to provide workers with paid time-off from work.

    “Will probably get the vaccine”

    19% of respondents report that they will “probably” get vaccinated. This group, which includes individuals with different levels of education and of whom half are between 25-54 years of age, reports concerns about perceived harm and a deference to others as reasons for being hesitant.

    “The vaccine hesitancy for this segment is driven by concerns about vaccine safety and side effects, as well as a feeling that there are others who may need the vaccine more,” said Professor Gasiorek, the report’s co-author. “To address these barriers, it is important to acknowledge that, while side effects can occur, most reactions are normal and not dangerous. It will take time to persuade this group that the vaccine is safe, effective and beneficial for them to receive. Because of this, messages targeting this group should begin now, even though vaccine supplies are still in short supply.”

    “Will probably NOT get the vaccine”

    9% report that they will “probably not” get vaccinated. This group is generally younger, with less formal education, and is disproportionately non-White and non-Asian, with the majority identifying with two or more races. This group shares concerns about safety and side effects with other groups but is also concerned about whether a vaccine will work. They are generally a bit more skeptical of this vaccine.

    “Communication strategies for this group should address these concerns, as well as their mistrust. It is recommended that messaging come from friends, religious leaders or respected community elders that these individuals trust rather than government officials or scientists,” Juarez said.

    “Will definitely NOT get the vaccine”

    3% report that they will “definitely not” get the vaccine. Younger and with less formal education, this group is disproportionately female. Relative to Hawaiʻi’s population, individuals identifying as White or as two or more races are over represented. This group is strongly anti-vaccine and anti-vaccination and does not trust vaccines or the government.

    The report said it is highly unlikely these group members can be persuaded to change their minds. The most effective approach may involve the implementation of policies or regulations for certain activities. For example, making vaccinations mandatory to access air travel, or requiring them to work at or to patronize certain businesses, might motivate people in this group to get vaccinated.

  6. #6

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison View Post
    Perhaps a better way to proceed would be to ask the question...why would you NOT get vaccinated against a potentially deadly infection if you have the opportunity to do that??
    The answer from Anti-Vaxers is going to be dependent on a number of personal issues...including religious beliefs, conspiracy theories ( to which there are always numerous numbers of these), long and short term safety concerns and other social mores that may or may not be a factor.
    Looking at statistics is interesting, BUT if YOU happen to be the one in a million that is impacted, try then arguing that it is a conspiracy theory and only happens to someone else...
    There are many reasons in my mind why certain lower risk groups should not be vaccinated until we have had more time to make sure it is all safe. It is one thing for an 85 year old to get a vaccine because of the immediate risk from COVID and a totally different scenario for a 25 year old getting vaccinated to have some unforeseen problems early on in life to struggle with. It could potentially be a multitude of unforeseen problems down the road.

    These facts do not help to convince me otherwise.


    “Only hours after AstraZeneca announced encouraging news about the effectiveness of its Covid-19 vaccine on Monday, a group of medical experts charged with monitoring the company’s clinical trial made a highly unusual accusation: AstraZeneca had essentially cherry-picked data to make its vaccine look better.

    The accusation, in a two-page letter sent Monday to the company and federal officials, was a fresh blow to the credibility of a vaccine whose low price and relatively easy storage have made it critical to the global fight against the coronavirus pandemic.

    The private letter, which was described by people who have read it, castigated AstraZeneca for jeopardizing the integrity of a closely watched clinical trial.

    “Decisions like this are what erode public trust in the scientific process,” the oversight board wrote.”

    Serge

  7. #7

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    The AZ vaccine has not been approved in the US but 3 others have. All 3 have close to a 100% efficacy against hospitalization and death.

    One of the issues with perceived low risk groups not getting vaccinated is that they can still spread it to unvaccinated people in higher risk groups. In addition, how does someone really now they are low risk? There have been countless deaths among young people who thought they were completely healthy.
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  8. #8

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    There are many reasons in my mind why certain lower risk groups should not be vaccinated until we have had more time to make sure it is all safe. It is one thing for an 85 year old to get a vaccine because of the immediate risk from COVID and a totally different scenario for a 25 year old getting vaccinated to have some unforeseen problems early on in life to struggle with. It could potentially be a multitude of unforeseen problems down the road.

    These facts do not help to convince me otherwise.

    “Only hours after AstraZeneca announced encouraging news about the effectiveness of its Covid-19 vaccine on Monday, a group of medical experts charged with monitoring the company’s clinical trial made a highly unusual accusation: AstraZeneca had essentially cherry-picked data to make its vaccine look better.

    The accusation, in a two-page letter sent Monday to the company and federal officials, was a fresh blow to the credibility of a vaccine whose low price and relatively easy storage have made it critical to the global fight against the coronavirus pandemic.

    The private letter, which was described by people who have read it, castigated AstraZeneca for jeopardizing the integrity of a closely watched clinical trial.

    “Decisions like this are what erode public trust in the scientific process,” the oversight board wrote.”

    Actually the charge against Astra Zeneca was not that they had "cherry picked" data, but that they had included data that was out of date and not within the cut-off deadlines for said data to be considered as valid. This was considered by Dr. Fauci as a unforeseen error and not intentional.
    While your point about age consideration is also valid, there is considerable evidence that even younger people who come down with Covid can be impacted very negatively in ways that are unknown as to the longevity and overall impact on their future health, this is a fact. What is NOT a fact is how the vaccination will impact the younger generation in future years...the more common RNA based vaccinations, due to their newer technology fall into this group. However, the older ( and therefore more mature) technology that J&J uses does not.

  9. #9
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    Re: To jab or not to jab

    I've read that AZ could be approved in the US as early as next month. That should help.
    ~ Bob ~
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  10. #10

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by dminches View Post
    The AZ vaccine has not been approved in the US but 3 others have. All 3 have close to a 100% efficacy against hospitalization and death.

    One of the issues with perceived low risk groups not getting vaccinated is that they can still spread it to unvaccinated people in higher risk groups. In addition, how does someone really now they are low risk? There have been countless deaths among young people who thought they were completely healthy.
    Countless deaths among the young? The young also die from cancer, aneurisms, heart attacks and a bunch of other things. Statistics help a lot here. Young COVID deaths are statistically low.

    Opioid/drug abuse deaths were about the same.... but there is no vaccine for that...

    Pneumonia is the single largest cause of death in children worldwide. Every year, it kills an estimated 1.4 million children... There is a vaccine for pneumonia for kids as well as the adults... yet both die from pneumonia and in the case of the elderly, it is one of the leading causes of death. Why isn’t everyone getting vaccinated?
    Serge

  11. #11

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Countless deaths among the young? The young also die from cancer, aneurisms, heart attacks and a bunch of other things. Statistics help a lot here. Young COVID deaths are statistically low.

    Opioid/drug abuse deaths were about the same.... but there is no vaccine for that...

    Pneumonia is the single largest cause of death in children worldwide. Every year, it kills an estimated 1.4 million children... There is a vaccine for pneumonia for kids as well as the adults... yet both die from pneumonia and in the case of the elderly, it is one of the leading causes of death. Why isn’t everyone getting vaccinated?
    Pneumonia is what you will die from when you have Covid. So while the statistics of dying from Covid among the young are low, they are not zero! Which is what they can be if we achieve herd immunity, or that enough of the young and others are vaccinated.

  12. #12

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Countless deaths among the young? The young also die from cancer, aneurisms, heart attacks and a bunch of other things. Statistics help a lot here. Young COVID deaths are statistically low.

    Opioid/drug abuse deaths were about the same.... but there is no vaccine for that...

    Pneumonia is the single largest cause of death in children worldwide. Every year, it kills an estimated 1.4 million children... There is a vaccine for pneumonia for kids as well as the adults... yet both die from pneumonia and in the case of the elderly, it is one of the leading causes of death. Why isn’t everyone getting vaccinated?
    I don’t understand that logic. Because kids die from cancer they shouldn’t try to avoid death or long term illness by being vaccinated? Should they also not wear seatbelts because they can die from something else?

    Sorry, your reasoning makes no sense to me.

    Yes, deaths are low but who knows about long term health issues? Young athletes have been shown to have enlarged hearts. I have no idea what happens when they get older.

    I am not saying they have to get vaccinated but it isn’t so clear they shouldn’t.

    The real issue is that 35-40% of Americans say they won’t get vaccinated. The virus will not go away for a long time if that is the case.
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  13. #13
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    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Countless deaths among the young? The young also die from cancer, aneurisms, heart attacks and a bunch of other things. Statistics help a lot here. Young COVID deaths are statistically low.

    Opioid/drug abuse deaths were about the same.... but there is no vaccine for that...

    Pneumonia is the single largest cause of death in children worldwide. Every year, it kills an estimated 1.4 million children... There is a vaccine for pneumonia for kids as well as the adults... yet both die from pneumonia and in the case of the elderly, it is one of the leading causes of death. Why isn’t everyone getting vaccinated?
    Here in British Columbia, Canada, the latest news is that more and more young people get the virus variant (from UK) and end up in intensive care (some even die). It is worrisome to the health chiefs.

    Serious COVID-19 cases on the rise among younger people in B.C., health officials say | CBC News

    Number of cases are starting to go up, particularly in Ontario.

    Canada's Ontario says it's in the Covid-19 third wave -- and officials worry the vaccine rollout may not happen fast enough
    - CNN


    ...Here too, in BC.

    Anyway, the variants are in and the youngs don't escape them. Schoolteachers are about to get their jab. It is very slow in Canada, too slow, I'm listening to Calypso.

    Brazil? Lots of jabs needed there right now.
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  14. #14

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison View Post
    Pneumonia is what you will die from when you have Covid. So while the statistics of dying from Covid among the young are low, they are not zero! Which is what they can be if we achieve herd immunity, or that enough of the young and others are vaccinated.
    Pneumonia was doing just fine wreaking havoc without Covid help... https://www.thoracic.org/patients/pa...onia-facts.pdf

    That is unlikely to change after COVID
    Serge

  15. #15

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by dminches View Post
    I don’t understand that logic. Because kids die from cancer they shouldn’t try to avoid death or long term illness by being vaccinated? Should they also not wear seatbelts because they can die from something else?

    Sorry, your reasoning makes no sense to me.

    Yes, deaths are low but who knows about long term health issues? Young athletes have been shown to have enlarged hearts. I have no idea what happens when they get older.

    I am not saying they have to get vaccinated but it isn’t so clear they shouldn’t.

    The real issue is that 35-40% of Americans say they won’t get vaccinated. The virus will not go away for a long time if that is the case.
    The logic that Octopus uses for his argument has many tentacles, lol Although I totally agree that it makes no sense to me either.

  16. #16

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Pneumonia was doing just fine wreaking havoc without Covid help... https://www.thoracic.org/patients/pa...onia-facts.pdf

    That is unlikely to change after COVID
    Yes, that is also correct, but please explain how that changes for the better with Covid?

  17. #17

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by dminches View Post
    I don’t understand that logic. Because kids die from cancer they shouldn’t try to avoid death or long term illness by being vaccinated? Should they also not wear seatbelts because they can die from something else?

    Sorry, your reasoning makes no sense to me.

    Yes, deaths are low but who knows about long term health issues? Young athletes have been shown to have enlarged hearts. I have no idea what happens when they get older.

    I am not saying they have to get vaccinated but it isn’t so clear they shouldn’t.

    The real issue is that 35-40% of Americans say they won’t get vaccinated. The virus will not go away for a long time if that is the case.
    I’m against vaccinating kids and the young population without having a good long term trial. Anything else is putting the future generations at potential risk. We have the past history to refer back to. Historical Safety Concerns | Vaccine Safety | CDC

    The J&J may be a more conventional vaccine but show me long term safety of mRNA vaccines they are going to use on our kids... insanity in my opinion.
    Serge

  18. #18
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    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    I’m against vaccinating kids and the young population without having a good long term trial. Anything else is putting the future generations at potential risk. We have the past history to refer back to. Historical Safety Concerns | Vaccine Safety | CDC

    The J&J may be a more conventional vaccine but show me long term safety of mRNA vaccines they are going to use on our kids... insanity in my opinion.
    Even the Kids with lung and heart conditions?
    ~ Bob ~
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  19. #19

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison View Post
    Yes, that is also correct, but please explain how that changes for the better with Covid?
    It doesn’t. People still died from all kinds of conditions with and without COVID. People will continue dying from the same same old problems even after everyone is vaccinated. Let’s hope the vaccines do not add new problems to deal with. We simply do not know. The reckless speed and aggressive push for vaccinations for a disease that threatens less than 1% of the population is absurd. There are no guarantees of safety and they are immune to litigation since the vaccine is experimental and under the PREP Act, companies like Pfizer, JJ and Moderna have total immunity from liability if something unintentionally goes wrong with their vaccines.
    Serge

  20. #20

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    I’m against vaccinating kids and the young population without having a good long term trial. Anything else is putting the future generations at potential risk. We have the past history to refer back to. Historical Safety Concerns | Vaccine Safety | CDC

    The J&J may be a more conventional vaccine but show me long term safety of mRNA vaccines they are going to use on our kids... insanity in my opinion.
    So I guess you would have been against vaccinating kids against measles, small pox, polio and all the other diseases kids are protected against? None of these had long term trials before they were used universally? We all survived.

  21. #21

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthStar View Post
    Even the Kids with lung and heart conditions?
    That is a risk group that probably should be vaccinated but even with that, what are the statistics of that age group?

    That’s is really for the experts to determine.

    These are all just my own opinions on the subject.


    In the United States and globally, fewer cases of COVID-19 have been reported in children (age 0-17 years) compared with adults.1,2 While children comprise 22% of the U.S. population,3 the most recent data, available through the CDC, show that some cases of COVID-19 in the United States reported to CDC were among children.4 The number and rate of cases in children in the United States have been steadily increasing since March 2020. The true incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection in children is not known due to lack of widespread testing and the prioritization of testing for adults and those with severe illness. Hospitalization rates in children are significantly lower than hospitalization rates in adults with COVID-19, suggesting that children may have less severe illness from COVID-19 compared to adults.
    Serge

  22. #22

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by dminches View Post
    So I guess you would have been against vaccinating kids against measles, small pox, polio and all the other diseases kids are protected against? None of these had long term trials before they were used universally? We all survived.
    Some paid dearly as I already posted above. Vaccines do go wrong. Why set up a National Compensation fund for vaccines (not COVID, you are on your own with that) National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program | Official web site of the U.S. Health Resources & Services Administration
    Serge

  23. #23

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Some paid dearly as I already posted above. Vaccines do go wrong. Why set up a National Compensation fund for vaccines (not COVID, you are on your own with that) National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program | Official web site of the U.S. Health Resources & Services Administration
    For the record, 25 year olds are not kids. They are young adults. No one is suggesting full vaccination for 5 years olds.

  24. #24

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    I’m not an anti-vaxxer by the way. I simply wish with the millions of people getting vaccinated, that we could have taken a more careful approach to be sure no one will regret it. Well, it’s too late for some already but they are statistically insignificant in this mad rush to stomp out the yet another virus
    Serge

  25. #25

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by dminches View Post
    For the record, 25 year olds are not kids. They are young adults. No one is suggesting full vaccination for 5 years olds.
    With more than 44 million people fully vaccinated against Covid-19 in the United States, many adults are hopeful that a more normal life is on the horizon. Now families are wondering when vaccines will be available for teens and children.

    Covid-19 vaccines currently authorized in the United States are only available for adults, except Pfizer/BioNTech's vaccine, which is authorized for people ages 16 and older.
    While there's a chance that a vaccine will be available to high school and middle school-age children by this fall, younger children may still be months away from vaccination when the upcoming school year begins. Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has said younger children may have to wait until the first quarter of 2022.
    Serge

  26. #26

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    35-40% of adults in the US are saying they don’t want to get a vaccine. If that’s what really happens things won’t change much. The virus will continue to spread and dominate society.
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  27. #27

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by dminches View Post
    35-40% of adults in the US are saying they don’t want to get a vaccine. If that’s what really happens things won’t change much. The virus will continue to spread and dominate society.
    All pandemics end. Two years seems to be the norm...
    Serge

  28. #28

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    All pandemics end. Two years seems to be the norm...
    So that means over 1 million deaths in the US and thousand and thousands of long term health issues. Sorry, but I don’t think we just sit around and let that happen.
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS with Durand Telos composite arm; SME 3012R arm, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Reel to Reel: Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810, Studer A812, Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Taiko Audio Extreme> Lampizator Pacific, Oppo UDP-203;

  29. #29

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    It has been more than a year since the first "recognized" cases of Covid started appearing. There was a whole "epidemic" of pneumonias in some countries the fall of 2019 but I won't get into that...


    Covid-19 may have infected 10 percent of world's population, WHO says
    “Best estimates” indicate that 1 in 10 people may have contracted the virus — more than 20 times the number of those confirmed, world health body says.

    Scary headlines indeed...

    But instead of guessing at what may have happened, let's take a look at what we do know..

    Total cases 124,790,051

    Total deaths 2,745,386

    World Population 7.674 billion

    Percentage of known and reported cases of COVID worldwide expressed as a percentage of global population... 0.00035770132

    the math on deaths vs world population would have too many zeros to mean anything at all (as sad as that sounds of course)


    Let's hope our "experts" know what they are doing....
    Serge

  30. #30

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by dminches View Post
    So that means over 1 million deaths in the US and thousand and thousands of long term health issues. Sorry, but I don’t think we just sit around and let that happen.
    The real test will be if the vaccinations become mandatory... Of course don't forget the 3 Million yearly deaths due to the usual causes.

    Philosophically speaking, our planet is like the Grand Central Station. People arriving and leaving every minute. The turnover is unstoppable and has been so since this planet harbored life... One should also not mess with nature in labs and try to gain functions of diseases they have no clue how to fight later on....
    Serge

  31. #31

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    I think it is a legitimate question. The experts seem so certain about the various aspects of the vaccines after all.

    How long does immunity last after getting the vaccine?

    All COVID-19 vaccines have only been around for a very short amount of time. Because of this, it’s not known exactly how long immunity lasts after being vaccinated. This is true for both one-dose and two-dose vaccines.

    Going forward, scientists will continue to study the different COVID-19 vaccines and how long their immunity lasts.

    Even though we don’t know how long protection from COVID-19 vaccines lasts, it’s still very important to receive your vaccination when it’s available to you.

    This is because getting vaccinated can prevent you from getting COVID-19. Even if you do get the disease, you’ll have a much lower risk for developing a serious or life threatening illness.
    Serge

  32. #32

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Can the vaccine protect you against other strains of the new coronavirus?
    Over the past several months, new strains, or variants, of SARS-CoV-2 have been identified. There have been concerns about about how effective the vaccines are against these new variants. Two new strains you may have heard a lot about are:

    B.1.1.7 (the “U.K. variant”)
    B.1.351 (the “South African variant”)
    Laboratory (test tube) studies have been performed with these strains and the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines. Initial data indicates that these vaccines may be less effective against the South African strain.

    One report tested antibodies generated by the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine against a test virus containing the spike protein mutations found in the South African variant. When compared to an early strain of the novel coronavirus, antibody neutralization of this virus was two-thirds weaker.

    A similar report looked at the ability of antibodies generated by the Moderna vaccine to neutralize test viruses. While viruses from the U.K. variant were neutralized, researchers saw a 6.4-fold drop in neutralization for the South African strain.

    It’s important to note that this is still a developing area of study. Researchers will continue to investigate the impact that emerging strains have on current and future COVID-19 vaccines.
    Serge

  33. #33
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
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    Oregon
    Posts
    39

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Never.
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

  34. #34

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    The 1968 pandemic was caused by an influenza A (H3N2) virus comprised of two genes from an avian influenza A virus, including a new H3 hemagglutinin, but also contained the N2 neuraminidase from the 1957 H2N2 virus. It was first noted in the United States in September 1968. The estimated number of deaths was 1 million worldwide and about 100,000 in the United States. Most excess deaths were in people 65 years and older. The H3N2 virus continues to circulate worldwide as a seasonal influenza A virus. Seasonal H3N2 viruses, which are associated with severe illness in older people, undergo regular antigenic drift.
    Serge

  35. #35

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    I think it is a legitimate question. The experts seem so certain about the various aspects of the vaccines after all.

    How long does immunity last after getting the vaccine?

    All COVID-19 vaccines have only been around for a very short amount of time. Because of this, it’s not known exactly how long immunity lasts after being vaccinated. This is true for both one-dose and two-dose vaccines.

    Going forward, scientists will continue to study the different COVID-19 vaccines and how long their immunity lasts.

    Even though we don’t know how long protection from COVID-19 vaccines lasts, it’s still very important to receive your vaccination when it’s available to you.

    This is because getting vaccinated can prevent you from getting COVID-19. Even if you do get the disease, you’ll have a much lower risk for developing a serious or life threatening illness.
    Finally, this is a post that I agree with. What you have stated before about the risks of the vaccination (mainly the RNA based versions) is also very true, BUT one can not really know what the negative impacts for the long term are...which has always been somewhat true, even when folk like Jonas Salk were developing their vaccinations....and yet today I doubt that most people would be too scared of the polio vaccination...vs. the nightmare of getting polio!

  36. #36

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    1957-1958 Pandemic (H2N2 virus)

    In February 1957, a new influenza A (H2N2) virus emerged in East Asia, triggering a pandemic (“Asian Flu”). This H2N2 virus was comprised of three different genes from an H2N2 virus that originated from an avian influenza A virus, including the H2 hemagglutinin and the N2 neuraminidase genes. It was first reported in Singapore in February 1957, Hong Kong in April 1957, and in coastal cities in the United States in summer 1957. The estimated number of deaths was 1.1 million worldwide and 116,000 in the United States.
    Serge

  37. #37

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison View Post
    Finally, this is a post that I agree with. What you have stated before about the risks of the vaccination (mainly the RNA based versions) is also very true, BUT one can not really know what the negative impacts for the long term are...which has always been somewhat true, even when folk like Jonas Salk were developing their vaccinations....and yet today I doubt that most people would be too scared of the polio vaccination...vs. the nightmare of getting polio!
    Well, there were some real issues with the Polio vaccine as you may know and people actually got Polio and became paralyzed for life over the fear of well, being paralyzed for life....

    A virus that may cause paralysis and is easily preventable by the polio vaccine however.

    Except it was kids who could not make that choice for themselves. But yes, I have zero problems or hesitation with serious disease vaccines that have been proven long term in general.
    Serge

  38. #38

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    1957-1958 Pandemic (H2N2 virus)

    In February 1957, a new influenza A (H2N2) virus emerged in East Asia, triggering a pandemic (“Asian Flu”). This H2N2 virus was comprised of three different genes from an H2N2 virus that originated from an avian influenza A virus, including the H2 hemagglutinin and the N2 neuraminidase genes. It was first reported in Singapore in February 1957, Hong Kong in April 1957, and in coastal cities in the United States in summer 1957. The estimated number of deaths was 1.1 million worldwide and 116,000 in the United States.
    All of which is interesting, but how is this relevant? The current death toll after just over 1 year in the US is more than 500K! That is more people dead than died in the Vietnam and Korean war put together!

  39. #39

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Well alrighty then...


    n the spring of 2009, a novel influenza A (H1N1) virus emerged. It was detected first in the United States and spread quickly across the United States and the world. This new H1N1 virus contained a unique combination of influenza genes not previously identified in animals or people. This virus was designated as influenza A (H1N1)pdm09 virus. Ten years later work continues to better understand influenza, prevent disease, and prepare for the next pandemic.
    Serge

  40. #40

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Well, there were some real issues with the Polio vaccine as you may know and people actually got Polio and became paralyzed for life over the fear of well, being paralyzed for life....

    A virus that may cause paralysis and is easily preventable by the polio vaccine however.

    Except it was kids who could not make that choice for themselves. But yes, I have zero problems or hesitation with serious disease vaccines that have been proven long term in general.

    And there will be some issues with the Covid vaccinations, my point being that nobody in their right mind today would risk getting polio vs taking the polio vaccination. I'm sure there were plenty of naysayers when Salk invented the polio vaccination as well....

  41. #41

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison View Post
    All of which is interesting, but how is this relevant? The current death toll after just over 1 year in the US is more than 500K! That is more people dead than died in the Vietnam and Korean war put together!
    I would not get upset by those numbers so fast. With hospitals enjoying a very healthy premium on covid diagnosis and with the false positive rates due to an overly sensitive test, it is easy to fall for that one. I know how the healthcare system works. It was a $40k diagnosis for the hospital.


    "Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for – if they're Medicare – typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000. But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000."

    Jensen clarified in the video that he doesn't think physicians are "gaming the system" so much as other "players," such as hospital administrators, who he said may pressure physicians to cite all diagnoses, including "probable" COVID-19, on discharge papers or death certificates to get the higher Medicare allocation allowed under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act. Past practice, Jensen said, did not include probabilities.
    Serge

  42. #42

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    I would not get upset by those numbers so fast. With hospitals enjoying a very healthy premium on covid diagnosis and with the false positive rates due to an overly sensitive test, it is easy to fall for that one. I know how the healthcare system works. It was a $40k diagnosis for the hospital.


    "Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for – if they're Medicare – typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000. But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000."

    Jensen clarified in the video that he doesn't think physicians are "gaming the system" so much as other "players," such as hospital administrators, who he said may pressure physicians to cite all diagnoses, including "probable" COVID-19, on discharge papers or death certificates to get the higher Medicare allocation allowed under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act. Past practice, Jensen said, did not include probabilities.
    That's a nice theory, do you have any proof?

  43. #43

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison View Post
    And there will be some issues with the Covid vaccinations, my point being that nobody in their right mind today would risk getting polio vs taking the polio vaccination. I'm sure there were plenty of naysayers when Salk invented the polio vaccination as well....
    I don't think there were as many that would have been anti vaccine. We live in the day and age where information is disseminated across the world in seconds and also is heavily biased as well as twisted and manipulated. Back in the day, people just rolled up the sleeve with total faith in their doctor and probably zero concern. The polio batch that got the kids sick was eventually pulled but it was too late.

    In April 1955 more than 200 000 children in five Western and mid-Western USA states received a polio vaccine in which the process of inactivating the live virus proved to be defective. Within days there were reports of paralysis and within a month the first mass vaccination programme against polio had to be abandoned. Subsequent investigations revealed that the vaccine, manufactured by the California-based family firm of Cutter Laboratories, had caused 40 000 cases of polio, leaving 200 children with varying degrees of paralysis and killing 10.
    Serge

  44. #44

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison View Post
    That's a nice theory, do you have any proof?
    Not a theory. FACT. Fact check: Medicare pays hospitals more money for COVID-19 patients
    Serge

  45. #45

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    For some reason it is hard to find the actual numbers of how many have been vaccinated but by the CDC count, 126 Million doses have been administered. Some sources say half the US population is vaccinated. If that is the case, at 70% we should be reaching herd immunity from what I have read and heard. Almost there.

    126 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 22, 2021.

    Of course not without some tragic outcomes but supposedly the vaccine is not to blame.

    During this time, VAERS received 2,216 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS.

    Selected Adverse Events Reported after COVID-19 Vaccination | CDC
    Serge

  46. #46

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Proof that the web can be a dangerous place...

    what you read was the fact that hospitals get more money from insurance if the patient has Covid than a cold ( or whatever disease you want to place here). This is obviously going to be the case if the facility has to engage in more acute care because of Covid...wouldn't you want and expect to get higher pay for more work?? What you did NOT read is the fact with proof that administrators are actually gaming the system and reporting false Covid diagnoses, thereby requiring more payment for care that was not in fact administered. That is what I was asking you for proof of...and now its your turn, LOL.

  47. #47

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison View Post
    Proof that the web can be a dangerous place...

    what you read was the fact that hospitals get more money from insurance if the patient has Covid than a cold ( or whatever disease you want to place here). This is obviously going to be the case if the facility has to engage in more acute care because of Covid...wouldn't you want and expect to get higher pay for more work?? What you did NOT read is the fact with proof that administrators are actually gaming the system and reporting false Covid diagnoses, thereby requiring more payment for care that was not in fact administered. That is what I was asking you for proof of...and now its your turn, LOL.
    Yes, everything was honest and transparent so the bad Medicare people were just plain mean when they

    CMS implemented the provisions of Section 3710 of the CARES Act in CR 11764. The MLN Matters article related to that CR is available at https://www.cms.gov/files/document/mm11764.pdf.

    To address potential Medicare program integrity risks, effective with admissions occurring on or after September 1, 2020, claims eligible for the 20 percent increase in the MS-DRG weighting factor will also be required to have a positive COVID-19 laboratory test documented in the patient’s medical record. Positive tests must be demonstrated using only the results of viral testing (i.e., molecular or antigen), consistent with CDC guidelines. The test may be performed either during the hospital admission or prior to the hospital admission.

    By the way, Medicare fraud and abuse is into the billions annually . I would hate to see 2020 actual numbers that were COVID up charges.


    The FY 2019 Medicare FFS estimated improper payment rate is 7.25 percent, representing $28.91 billion in improper payments, compared to the FY 2018 estimated improper payment rate of 8.12 percent, representing $31.62 billion in improper payments.
    Serge

  48. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Bucks County PA
    Posts
    3,045

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison View Post
    Finally, this is a post that I agree with. What you have stated before about the risks of the vaccination (mainly the RNA based versions) is also very true, BUT one can not really know what the negative impacts for the long term are...which has always been somewhat true, even when folk like Jonas Salk were developing their vaccinations....and yet today I doubt that most people would be too scared of the polio vaccination...vs. the nightmare of getting polio!
    Gates Vaccine Spreads Polio Across Africa | New Eastern Outlook
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel 1072 CDP / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Bucks County PA
    Posts
    3,045

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by dminches View Post
    The AZ vaccine has not been approved in the US but 3 others have. All 3 have close to a 100% efficacy against hospitalization and death.

    One of the issues with perceived low risk groups not getting vaccinated is that they can still spread it to unvaccinated people in higher risk groups. In addition, how does someone really now they are low risk? There have been countless deaths among young people who thought they were completely healthy.
    The reason you are still wearing masks after getting the injections is because although you may not suffer from the symptoms, you can still have and transmit it to others including those who chose not to be injected. The Unvaxed may actually become the high risk group because the Vaxed become the Super Spreaders.

    There are already several proven remedies if you get it as well as ways to help prevent more than asymptomatic. HCQ was poo poo'd only because in order to use the Emergency Authorizations for the Injections (diguised as vaccines) could only be done if there are NO KNOWN other ways to deal with whatever illness is in question. They rushed these Injections. They had to skip all of the Non Clinical Trials because in the past they have tried many times to come up with a "Vaccine" for several of the known Covid Strains and the Animals all died. So this time around they just bypassed that critical step in Drug Release Protocol. (I have been working in the Pharma Field for 15 years specifically with Submissions to all the World Agencies for Approval and Lifecycle of all drugs. I spent countless hours dealing with Covid Submissions being rushed thru the pipeline)

    If you are or feel like you are in a higher risk group and you believe that your only chance at life is to get injected with contents unknown to the general public, by all means do that. I get that it is a real Flu Like Illness and people are just as scared of the Seasonal Flu. I get that it does harm and take life from those mostly with an underlying condition. Also, I would not label myself an Anti Vaxer but I am a bit skeptical this time around.

    Some people, even younger people that appear to be in shape, are toxic or acidic which is prime for all illness and disease. The key is to become as Alkaline as you can, which fights off many things including colds and flues. Vitamin D3, Zink, Pharma Grade Baking Soda are just a few along with lots of green leafy veggies.

    A few of the things that were put into place actually made us all more toxic, which then makes more people get sick and or possibly die. They made us wear a mask which forces you to breath back in your own carbon dioxide, which in turn makes you more acidic. Then they shut down all physical activity such as Gyms, Sports, School which stopped people from Exercising. Guess what, when you don't exercise, you become more acidic and toxic which allows more diseases to be had, including helping to boost the cases of Covid.

    As far as the QTY of cases and deaths go, we had bad tests and bad testing. Even the guy who helped invent the PCR tests said they were useless and begged to have them stopped in use for Covid. Even Fruit and never used swabs tested positive for Covid. During the whole of 2020, it did not matter what you actually died from, if you somehow tested positive for Covid after having a Heart Attack, you died of Covid in order to pad the stats.

    When it comes to Herd Immunity, Everyone does not need to get Injected, only the High Risk and those who think they have to or want to. Herd Immunity kicks in long before you need 100% of the people injected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison View Post
    Perhaps a better way to proceed would be to ask the question...why would you NOT get vaccinated against a potentially deadly infection if you have the opportunity to do that??
    The answer from Anti-Vaxers is going to be dependent on a number of personal issues...including religious beliefs, conspiracy theories ( to which there are always numerous numbers of these), long and short term safety concerns and other social mores that may or may not be a factor.
    Looking at statistics is interesting, BUT if YOU happen to be the one in a million that is impacted, try then arguing that it is a conspiracy theory and only happens to someone else...
    Why would I not get an Experimental Biological Injection?
    Because I am not as Trusting as the general public. I am healthy enough to wait and see what the real Fallout will be from all this if any. I hope there isn’t real issues but I am not willing to be the one to find out first.

    Do you always buy the first Model Year Car before others do?

    Again, I don’t think the whole thing is conspiracy, I acknowledge that there is a virus that was released upon us after it was being manipulated in the lab and funded by US Tax Dollars. The Money Trail is out there to find for yourself. And if you are or feel that you are high risk, go for it, it’s your choice, just like it is mine not to.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    I’m against vaccinating kids and the young population without having a good long term trial. Anything else is putting the future generations at potential risk. We have the past history to refer back to. Historical Safety Concerns | Vaccine Safety | CDC

    The J&J may be a more conventional vaccine but show me long term safety of mRNA vaccines they are going to use on our kids... insanity in my opinion.
    Bingo! Do not put the younger population at risk by giving them Experimental Biological Injections that were never tested properly from the start let alone never tested on children. Until we actually know what the future fallout will be in adults, children should not be Injected.

    I don’t think the short trials in Adults was nearly enough. You realize they were already producing the stuff at the same time they were “Testing” it or there would never have been a December rollout.

    Quote Originally Posted by dminches View Post
    So I guess you would have been against vaccinating kids against measles, small pox, polio and all the other diseases kids are protected against? None of these had long term trials before they were used universally? We all survived.
    They also were Traditional Vaccines, not Experimental Biological Injections that alter your DNA for Life.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    The real test will be if the vaccinations become mandatory... Of course don't forget the 3 Million yearly deaths due to the usual causes.

    Philosophically speaking, our planet is like the Grand Central Station. People arriving and leaving every minute. The turnover is unstoppable and has been so since this planet harbored life... One should also not mess with nature in labs and try to gain functions of diseases they have no clue how to fight later on....
    Unless they have a well laid out plan for Depopulation and Sustainability, such as the UN, Gates Foundation and others already have in place.

    Is everyone going to ignore the batch of Genetically Modified Mosquitoes that were released in Florida?
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel 1072 CDP / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  50. #50

    Re: To jab or not to jab

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    The reason you are still wearing masks after getting the injections is because although you may not suffer from the symptoms, you can still have and transmit it to others including those who chose not to be injected. The Unvaxed may actually become the high risk group because the Vaxed become the Super Spreaders.

    There are already several proven remedies if you get it as well as ways to help prevent more than asymptomatic. HCQ was poo poo'd only because in order to use the Emergency Authorizations for the Injections (diguised as vaccines) could only be done if there are NO KNOWN other ways to deal with whatever illness is in question. They rushed these Injections. They had to skip all of the Non Clinical Trials because in the past they have tried many times to come up with a "Vaccine" for several of the known Covid Strains and the Animals all died. So this time around they just bypassed that critical step in Drug Release Protocol. (I have been working in the Pharma Field for 15 years specifically with Submissions to all the World Agencies for Approval and Lifecycle of all drugs. I spent countless hours dealing with Covid Submissions being rushed thru the pipeline)

    If you are or feel like you are in a higher risk group and you believe that your only chance at life is to get injected with contents unknown to the general public, by all means do that. I get that it is a real Flu Like Illness and people are just as scared of the Seasonal Flu. I get that it does harm and take life from those mostly with an underlying condition. Also, I would not label myself an Anti Vaxer but I am a bit skeptical this time around.

    Some people, even younger people that appear to be in shape, are toxic or acidic which is prime for all illness and disease. The key is to become as Alkaline as you can, which fights off many things including colds and flues. Vitamin D3, Zink, Pharma Grade Baking Soda are just a few along with lots of green leafy veggies.

    A few of the things that were put into place actually made us all more toxic, which then makes more people get sick and or possibly die. They made us wear a mask which forces you to breath back in your own carbon dioxide, which in turn makes you more acidic. Then they shut down all physical activity such as Gyms, Sports, School which stopped people from Exercising. Guess what, when you don't exercise, you become more acidic and toxic which allows more diseases to be had, including helping to boost the cases of Covid.

    As far as the QTY of cases and deaths go, we had bad tests and bad testing. Even the guy who helped invent the PCR tests said they were useless and begged to have them stopped in use for Covid. Even Fruit and never used swabs tested positive for Covid. During the whole of 2020, it did not matter what you actually died from, if you somehow tested positive for Covid after having a Heart Attack, you died of Covid in order to pad the stats.

    When it comes to Herd Immunity, Everyone does not need to get Injected, only the High Risk and those who think they have to or want to. Herd Immunity kicks in long before you need 100% of the people injected.



    Why would I not get an Experimental Biological Injection?
    Because I am not as Trusting as the general public. I am healthy enough to wait and see what the real Fallout will be from all this if any. I hope there isn’t real issues but I am not willing to be the one to find out first.

    Do you always buy the first Model Year Car before others do?

    Again, I don’t think the whole thing is conspiracy, I acknowledge that there is a virus that was released upon us after it was being manipulated in the lab and funded by US Tax Dollars. The Money Trail is out there to find for yourself. And if you are or feel that you are high risk, go for it, it’s your choice, just like it is mine not to.



    Bingo! Do not put the younger population at risk by giving them Experimental Biological Injections that were never tested properly from the start let alone never tested on children. Until we actually know what the future fallout will be in adults, children should not be Injected.

    I don’t think the short trials in Adults was nearly enough. You realize they were already producing the stuff at the same time they were “Testing” it or there would never have been a December rollout.



    They also were Traditional Vaccines, not Experimental Biological Injections that alter your DNA for Life.



    Unless they have a well laid out plan for Depopulation and Sustainability, such as the UN, Gates Foundation and others already have in place.

    Is everyone going to ignore the batch of Genetically Modified Mosquitoes that were released in Florida?

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Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.

Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team

To jab or not to jab

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