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  1. #1
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    Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Hello AS community. Appreciate being included into this forum. I know many of you from another forum so "hello there" to those I have yet to befriend.

    Im from Toronto, Canada but promise not to end any sentence with "eh"?, eh.

    I have a bit of money burning in my pocket I would like to spend on an upgrade or new product consideration. For context, lets cap it at $15k usd.
    From the list below, where do you see my biggest bang for the buck.
    In truth, I am very happy with the sound but as an active audiophile who just returned from Axpona, I have the upgrade bug.
    Last month I added the Shunyata Ground Chassis system. I was blown away by the results. Quite the roi. Can lightening strike twice? Maybe, with your help. Here's the list and a few pics of my room which measure 13x21x7 1/2.
    DAC - MSB Analog with separate power base and MQA decoding
    Amp - Krell 302e
    Preamp - Krell 202
    Streamer - Auralic G1
    Power Conditioner Bryston BIT20
    Speakers - Sonus Faber Amati Futura.

    Thank you to those who reply.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  2. #2
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Beautiful room and system.

    Call Mark Jones and get yourself a sweet vinyl rig.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  3. #3
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bodiezaffa View Post
    Hello AS community. Appreciate being included into this forum. I know many of you from another forum so "hello there" to those I have yet to befriend.

    Im from Toronto, Canada but promise not to end any sentence with "eh"?, eh.

    I have a bit of money burning in my pocket I would like to spend on an upgrade or new product consideration. For context, lets cap it at $15k usd.
    From the list below, where do you see my biggest bang for the buck.
    In truth, I am very happy with the sound but as an active audiophile who just returned from Axpona, I have the upgrade bug.
    Last month I added the Shunyata Ground Chassis system. I was blown away by the results. Quite the roi. Can lightening strike twice? Maybe, with your help. Here's the list and a few pics of my room which measure 13x21x7 1/2.
    DAC - MSB Analog with separate power base and MQA decoding
    Amp - Krell 302e
    Preamp - Krell 202
    Streamer - Auralic G1
    Power Conditioner Bryston BIT20
    Speakers - Sonus Faber Amati Futura.

    Thank you to those who reply.
    What a beautiful room, Mark! I'm envious. Beautifully designed and implemented. As a pro real estate photographer, I also love your use and choice of colors (e.g. the contrasting white wainscoting trim and ceiling with the color of the walls).

    Some suggestions for your consideration:

    1: An Everest power distributor
    2: Shunyata Omega QR-s power cable for your MSB Analog DAC
    3: Another Altaira! 😉

    Tweaks: Shunyata DF-SS or the new Mobius cable elevators for the speaker cables. I used to be really skeptical about these until I put a set under just one channel's speaker cables, and could easily hear the improvement in transparency and clarity vs. the other channel (I can share more about that "experiment" if you like...).

    Beautiful system!

  4. #4
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bodiezaffa View Post
    Hello AS community. Appreciate being included into this forum. I know many of you from another forum so "hello there" to those I have yet to befriend.

    Im from Toronto, Canada but promise not to end any sentence with "eh"?, eh.

    I have a bit of money burning in my pocket I would like to spend on an upgrade or new product consideration. For context, lets cap it at $15k usd.
    From the list below, where do you see my biggest bang for the buck.
    In truth, I am very happy with the sound but as an active audiophile who just returned from Axpona, I have the upgrade bug.
    Last month I added the Shunyata Ground Chassis system. I was blown away by the results. Quite the roi. Can lightening strike twice? Maybe, with your help. Here's the list and a few pics of my room which measure 13x21x7 1/2.
    DAC - MSB Analog with separate power base and MQA decoding
    Amp - Krell 302e
    Preamp - Krell 202
    Streamer - Auralic G1
    Power Conditioner Bryston BIT20
    Speakers - Sonus Faber Amati Futura.

    Thank you to those who reply.

    Beautiful room.

    Have you considered moving away from Krell?
    "We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff

  5. #5
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Mark,

    IMHO I think a better source would take you up the curve. Aurender for example. Model would depend on your budget. I would speak to Mike or you local dealer on that.

    Also, you don’t say what your power foundation or cables are. As mentioned earlier, a Shunyata Everest 8000 with depending on what PCs you have now, at a minimum, Delta NR v2 PCs (Alpha/Sigmas would each be better and offer an ongoing upgrade path/ Omega QRS if you hit the lottery) would also provide a nice bump. That would allow you to ground your Altaira to the Everest. Everests are showing up used in the $6500 range. Since there really isn’t anything active to break, used would likely be fine. Craig
    Craig
    Main Equipment: Kharma Elegance dB11-S, JL Audio F113v2 X 2, Esoteric Grandioso C1X Solo PreAmp, Bricasti M21 DAC, M32 Mono Amplifiers, Antipodes Kala K-50 Server with 4TB internal SSD
    Power: Shunyata Everest 8000, Sigma XC v2, Sigma NR v2, Alpha NR v2 PCs, Defender, ADDPowr Wizard
    Grounding: Shunyata Altaira CGS - Alpha CGS cables
    Network : Supra Cat 8+, Twin (Nenon) Modified Buffalo GS2016 Switches with fiber in between powered with Keces P3 LPSU,
    Cables: Wireworld Platinum Starlight 2.0 8 USB, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 Speaker cables, 1M & 6M Tubulus Concentus ICs,
    Other: Isoacoustics GAIA I footers on the Kharmas, GIK & Stillpoint Apertures, Stillpoint Ultra SS under
    Everest and Amplifiers, Three dedicated 20 Amp lines w/Furutech GTX - Gold outlets, Adona 5 Shelf rack, ROON, a few HRS weighs

  6. #6
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Hi Mike.

    I agree the vinyl sound is sweet. That said, I would rarely listen to a complete album.
    I've been spoiled by the convenience of streaming.
    FYI, Ill be attending the next Florida Expo and would love meet you in person. Ive only heard (and read) amazing things about you.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  7. #7
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Thanks for noticing the room. Its my daily escape pod and destress room. I used products from Kinetics (in Canada) which allowed me to decouple the room from the house joists and eliminate sound from travelling through the vents. I purposely chose sconces instead of pot lights to avoid cutting holes in the ceiling. Double drywall 1inch thick with space and insolation between to capture soundwaves. I have 8 dedicated 20amp outlets using PS Audio hospital grade receptacles. I could have done more but my wife (who knows me too well) insisted on keeping the books and my budget within tolerable limits.

    Pivoting back to cables...
    So Shunyata, eh? (Damn)
    I've got your cell #. Ill reach out to chat further.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  8. #8
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    As always Craig, thanks for the input.
    You and Pumacat are on the same page with Shunyata.
    I have the Altaira grounded to the Bryston but i think youre saying the Everest (or Denali) would yield better results?
    Im going to call Mike. Most definitely.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  9. #9
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bodiezaffa View Post
    Hi Mike.

    I agree the vinyl sound is sweet. That said, I would rarely listen to a complete album.
    I've been spoiled by the convenience of streaming.
    FYI, Ill be attending the next Florida Expo and would love meet you in person. Ive only heard (and read) amazing things about you.
    Absolutely! Looking forward to it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  10. #10
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Hi Mike.
    Yes, I have but with me, Im like a deer in headlights. I've heard incredible tube and SS amps.
    Before the Krell, I had a Mcintosh MA9000. The grip the Krell had with my speakers was incredible.
    That said, I purchased then return a pair of Focal Sopra 3s. The Krell did not play well with Focal Beryllium tweeter.
    Im also considering trading in my Amati's for something musical, but more resolving. I love Kharma and Rockport and many others.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  11. #11
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Beautiful room and system.

    Call Mark Jones and get yourself a sweet vinyl rig.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Do not fall down that rabbit hole. I am sorry I did. Next week someone is coming to give me an estimate on buying my 450 (approximately) albums. If I decide to go that way my TT, cleaner, phono cable, and phono pre will follow out the door.

    You have a beautiful system and it is "relatively" simple. I get the impression you want to improve what you have, not go off in an entirely different direction. Good luck.
    Contributor to stereotimes.com

  12. #12

    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Speakers and room is where your bucks will have the biggest impact. Your room is already set. So if you are intent on adding $15K to your system, I would be looking at "what speakers can I get if I sold my current speakers and add $15K to the budget for upgrading my speakers". IMO no improvement to your digital set up will be as dramatic as what you can do with the (right) speaker upgrade.
    PS. A very cheap upgrade (if you have not done so already) is DSP to correct for frequency/timing issues associated with your room's dimensions such as low ceiling.

  13. #13
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    A couple of thoughts.

    Look into the G2 versus the G1. My friend added the Sirius to his G2 and the improvement was not small. Not sure if that piece is compatible with G1 and may be moot as I hear the Sirius is hard to come by.

    Also, how does the Analog compare to the Discrete DAC?

    If you like Krell stick with it there's no shame there and not many match that grip.

    Lastly but not leastly, welcome to AS
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
    Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
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  14. #14
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Thank you Dizzie...and you hit the nail on the head. Id like to maintain a relatively simple set up and improve the sound/resolution.
    Hope all goes smoothly with your sale, friend.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  15. #15
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Thanks Nicoff. I am in the throws of consideration to sell and replace the speakers. Nothing will change the sound signature more thennspeakers.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  16. #16
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    As far as I know, the design of the G1 isn't compatible with the expandable nature of the G2.1
    Good to meet you.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  17. #17
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bodiezaffa View Post
    Thanks Nicoff. I am in the throws of consideration to sell and replace the speakers. Nothing will change the sound signature more thennspeakers.
    My view is that improving speakers will always make a noticeable difference. But as someone else mentioned, your weak link is possibly the streamer. The G1 had a higher spec G2 stablemate, but both have since been upgraded to G1.1 and G2.1. The latter may offer an improvement in sound. If changing speakers anyway, don't consider changing anything else until that's done as amp choice in particular will be influenced by a new speaker. Good luck.

    I'm of a slightly different persuasion than others in unreservedly praising your room! I just hate the sight of "room treatment" panels, though I presume your room is dedicated solely to music. That possibly excuses them! I try to look at whatever other means are necessary to achieve best sound without resorting to panels, or more importantly "room correction DSP" - or for that matter, subs!

    Choosing the right TYPE of speaker to suit the room in No 1 consideration in my book. As it happens, my room suits horns or (even better in theory) omnis. I have chosen the former as imaging seems far superior to omnis, though the sound from parts of my listening room (not dedicated) is compromised by horns as my dining and kitchen areas are behind my speakers. A compromise I’m happy to accept in view of the stunning performance from my horns when heard from my normal listening position. Peter
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  18. #18
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Some have mentioned getting a better streamer. Would the streamer function of an Aurender be an improvement over what is being used now? If so that would also add a storage/server component to the system.
    Contributor to stereotimes.com

  19. #19
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Hello all. You cannot just change out parts in the G1 to make it a G2, FYI.

    What types of upstream from the streamer devices do you have to help eradicate the noise(s) from being introduced to your Auralic? If you have not optimized these aspects, then I would suggest looking into this.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~

  20. #20
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by treitz3 View Post
    Hello all. You cannot just change out parts in the G1 to make it a G2, FYI.


    Tom
    No of course not, but the G1 could be sold or exchanged for the better G2.1.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  21. #21
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Go for Clarisys Minuette panel speakers. WOW
    My System
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    Cables & Tubes "subject to change without notification".
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  22. #22
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    If you are so inclined to do some upgrades to your already wonderful system (beautiful room by the way)...

    1) Sell your current speakers and upgrade to whatever speakers gets you that extra resolution you're looking for.
    2) Save some money for a couple of quality subwoofers to place in various locations to "tune the room" better, which with your already well treated room, a pair of properly placed and dialed in subwoofers will eliminate the "need" for DSP.
    3) This is a free upgrade... Move your entire system off to one side of the room. If it were me, I'd move the system to the right wall alone side your listening seat since that wall has no protrusions other than the pillar towards the back of the room. Leave the amplifier up front between the speakers. Well I said free, but you will have to purchase some long XLR cables to run from your preamp to the amp up front, but that's it.
    Pass Labs XP-20 | Auralic Altair G1 | Odyssey Audio Stratos Monoblocks | JVC XL-Z411 | Nakamichi DR-1 | Technics SL-1700MK2 | Magnepan 1.7i | SVS PB-1000 Pro x 2

  23. #23
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post

    I'm of a slightly different persuasion than others in unreservedly praising your room! I just hate the sight of "room treatment" panels, though I presume your room is dedicated solely to music. That possibly excuses them! I try to look at whatever other means are necessary to achieve best sound without resorting to panels, or more importantly "room correction DSP" - or for that matter, subs!
    Choosing the right TYPE of speaker to suit the room in No 1 consideration in my book. . Peter
    Hi Peter.
    I appreciate your opinion on the room treatment and agree that speaker integration to the room is no 1 priority.
    In my case, the speakers were purchased before the room was built. The reflection, adsorption, dispersion was an attempt to quiet the room and play nice with speakers. Even still, I have problem issues that still exist. I suspect DSP would be best at correcting them, maybe even allow me to remove some of the panels.
    That said, I, like you would rather try and find a solution which doesn't alter the original recording. It may not be possible within my budget. Or maybe it will. The adventure continues.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  24. #24
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzie View Post
    Some have mentioned getting a better streamer. Would the streamer function of an Aurender be an improvement over what is being used now? If so that would also add a storage/server component to the system.
    Dizzie, excellent question. My G1 cost me under 3 grand. Aurender N200 is at least double that. If I upgrade to the aurender N200 and replace the MSB Analog dac with the Bricasti M21 - which I've heard and like, paired to the aurender, that is a good combo.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  25. #25
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by jadedavid View Post
    Go for Clarisys Minuette panel speakers. WOW
    where did you hear them. Axpona?
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  26. #26
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by chops View Post
    Move your entire system off to one side of the room. If it were me, I'd move the system to the right wall alone side your listening seat since that wall has no protrusions other than the pillar towards the back of the room. Leave the amplifier up front between the speakers. Well I said free, but you will have to purchase some long XLR cables to run from your preamp to the amp up front, but that's it.
    The room is only 13ft wide. Thats a really near, nearfield listening position. No?
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  27. #27

    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Panels look fine; its a nice room.
    Better than DSP, IMO. DSP may be the final touch for low freqs that are harder to treat. Speaker placement will mater there also.

  28. #28
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bodiezaffa View Post
    Hi Peter.
    I suspect DSP would be best at correcting them, maybe even allow me to remove some of the panels. The adventure continues.
    My experience with all 3 of the "room correction DSP" systems I've used that are built into full-range amps is that all this extra Signal Processing does no favours to the top end, despite the fact that this top end isn't ADJUSTED. The trouble is (in my opinion) that the entire signal has to pass through the processor and a little of the "goose-bump" factor is lost because of this complex processor. The precious signal cannot avoid the DSP if applied to a full-range amp.

    In an active syatem with amps for each range of frequencies, DSP can be applied solely to the bass amp, while the mid and top reaches their amps totally unmolested by DSP. My Avantgarde Duo XD speakers allow this as they have DSP built into their bass amps. If I engage a Dirac Live filter in my main amp, a little of the magic is lost, even though the bass may be a little flatter. Therefore I leave Dirac Live with No Filter but I do my best (not very well) to set the Avantgarde's XD software for best bass response.

    I found exactly the same problem with RoomPrefect in Lyngdorf amp and MARS in Micromega amp.

    The acoustic of my 945 sq ft semi-circular room with floor-to-ceiling glazing on the curved wall was predictably dire when I first moved here, but addition of 30% carpetting, curtains (never closed) and more soft furnishings, plus very careful speaker placement and setup have improved matters such that I'm happy with no DSP and no artificial room treatment.

    Good luck with your adventure.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  29. #29
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bodiezaffa View Post
    where did you hear them. Axpona?
    Yep, two different rooms with these wonderful speakers.
    Both outstanding.
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  30. #30
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    I would want the best source (server/streamer) I could afford. Nothing after that in the chain can make up for deficiencies there. An uber-expensive DAC can't fix what is already broken. Etc all the way down the line.

    FWIW, I hate box speakers. I think they are coffins where music gets buried. New speakers could easily make the biggest impact.
    Contributor to stereotimes.com

  31. #31
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bodiezaffa View Post
    The room is only 13ft wide. Thats a really near, nearfield listening position. No?
    Move the equipment rack to the side wall, not the speakers and amp. Keep the speakers where they are.

    Also, leave DSP as a last resort. If you still have acoustic issues, try tweaking loudspeaker/listening position more, even adjusting/swapping positions of the panels in the room.
    Pass Labs XP-20 | Auralic Altair G1 | Odyssey Audio Stratos Monoblocks | JVC XL-Z411 | Nakamichi DR-1 | Technics SL-1700MK2 | Magnepan 1.7i | SVS PB-1000 Pro x 2

  32. #32
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzie View Post
    I would want the best source (server/streamer) I could afford. Nothing after that in the chain can make up for deficiencies there. An uber-expensive DAC can't fix what is already broken. Etc all the way down the line.
    Interesting as others will say that, as long as the signal remains in the digital domain, it works or it doesn't work. There is no control over its "quality". Though I argue against that view to a point, the fact remains that if digital wasn't 100% reliable at carrying a stream of 1s and 0s, then your printer wouldn't print precisely what's on your PC screen. It is always 100% accurate. Likewise. as long as the stream from Qobuz or whoever is carried right through to the DAC's input socket, there is no opportunity for it to suffer any ill effects - it works or it doesn't work. Jitter is arguably the only enemy of digital that needs control in audio, whereas it doesn't in other digital transmission scenarios.

    By contrast the analogue side of things, particularly the DAC is subject to all sorts of interference and other factors that could (and does) deteriorate the signal. The less processing of the signal the better and the greater care of the signal to protect it from anything that may cause poorer end results at the speaker the better.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  33. #33
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Boy, some would say you have a lot to learn about digital.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    Interesting as others will say that, as long as the signal remains in the digital domain, it works or it doesn't work. There is no control over its "quality". Though I argue against that view to a point, the fact remains that if digital wasn't 100% reliable at carrying a stream of 1s and 0s, then your printer wouldn't print precisely what's on your PC screen. It is always 100% accurate. Likewise. as long as the stream from Qobuz or whoever is carried right through to the DAC's input socket, there is no opportunity for it to suffer any ill effects - it works or it doesn't work. Jitter is arguably the only enemy of digital that needs control in audio, whereas it doesn't in other digital transmission scenarios.

    By contrast the analogue side of things, particularly the DAC is subject to all sorts of interference and other factors that could (and does) deteriorate the signal. The less processing of the signal the better and the greater care of the signal to protect it from anything that may cause poorer end results at the speaker the better.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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  34. #34
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    A whole list, sorry mate you have nice stuff by the way, but improvements are possible

    - source was mentioned before
    - an audiophile network switch is missing with separate lineair power supply
    - the dac could have a better lineair power supply
    - I donÂ’t know how the dac is hooked, but if it is USB an extra USB isolator can be added
    - do the speakers have antivibration stands? All stuff clear up if you place it on antivibration stands
    - this one had an enormous impact on my set: power everything on a separate group on your fuse box and take an audiophilic fuse
    - take better powercables on everything

  35. #35
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkyogre View Post
    - this one had an enormous impact on my set: power everything on a separate group on your fuse box and take an audiophilic fuse
    The OP (Mark), already has eight dedicated 20 amp lines in the room with PS Audio outlets.
    Pass Labs XP-20 | Auralic Altair G1 | Odyssey Audio Stratos Monoblocks | JVC XL-Z411 | Nakamichi DR-1 | Technics SL-1700MK2 | Magnepan 1.7i | SVS PB-1000 Pro x 2

  36. #36
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by chops View Post
    The OP (Mark), already has eight dedicated 20 amp lines in the room with PS Audio outlets.
    Do you mean 8 different groups with a PS audio fuse each going to a separate audio device?

  37. #37
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkyogre View Post
    Do you mean 8 different groups with a PS audio fuse each going to a separate audio device?
    I mean I siad exactly what the OP said in his post.

  38. #38
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    The OP didn’t mention PS audio. Can be me, but I don’t know what you mean with 20 amp lines with PS audio outlets.

  39. #39
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkyogre View Post
    The OP didn’t mention PS audio. Can be me, but I don’t know what you mean with 20 amp lines with PS audio outlets.
    Oh really?

    This is from Post #7 of this thread by the OP...

    "Thanks for noticing the room. Its my daily escape pod and destress room. I used products from Kinetics (in Canada) which allowed me to decouple the room from the house joists and eliminate sound from travelling through the vents. I purposely chose sconces instead of pot lights to avoid cutting holes in the ceiling. Double drywall 1inch thick with space and insolation between to capture soundwaves. I have 8 dedicated 20amp outlets using PS Audio hospital grade receptacles. I could have done more but my wife (who knows me too well) insisted on keeping the books and my budget within tolerable limits.

    Pivoting back to cables...
    So Shunyata, eh? (Damn)
    I've got your cell #. Ill reach out to chat further."
    Pass Labs XP-20 | Auralic Altair G1 | Odyssey Audio Stratos Monoblocks | JVC XL-Z411 | Nakamichi DR-1 | Technics SL-1700MK2 | Magnepan 1.7i | SVS PB-1000 Pro x 2

  40. #40

    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    It feels like people who ask the "weak link" question either have an obvious weak link, or have a beautiful & well balanced system like yours - lol! Speaker choice and speaker / amp matching are huge - but based on personal preference. Sometimes it just takes iterations & trials to know if you've settled on the right match, but if you absolutely love what you've got now then it's safer to stick with it.

    That is a lot of acoustic treatments, with no other furnishings. It it were me, I'd at least try it with a bit less treatment and a bit more cozy / inviting / hybrid of a space though I can't prescribe what that might look like for you, given this is a 100% dedicated audio room. I like a couch, rug, and shelves with vinyl LPs for starters. Maybe some other decorations or visual points of interest. The mindset I gain from feeling "relaxed at home" helps the audio experience as much as anything.

    On power conditioning: when I added a Niagara 7000 to the big rig - I didn't feel it took my sound forward, though I stick with it for the protection. In my smaller rig I tried a Niagara 3000 and thought it actually hurt the sound a little, versus a dirt cheap Furman strip. I've also tried a PS Audio P12 with little if any gain, though the UI was super cool. Ugh. Maybe I have good power? Good power cords on the amps (AQ Hurricanes, or even NRG-1000's on a budget) DOES make a nice difference, though.

    Agree with the usual chorus of "vinyl source". At least find out if you like it. I loved it - it's the only source for me

  41. #41
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    I think the room and treatments are excellent and definitely not too many - its a beautiful space. If you want to increase "resolution", one MUST get the room acoustics addressed and spkr setup dialed in - full stop.

    You have put in a lot of effort on room construction as well as addressing some of the key acoustic elements AND its a dedicated space, so you are way ahead of the curve and not at the limitations of a living room/shared space. Certainly, you can get great results in those spaces, but that's not my point.

    The low end is a problem with every room, no way around it and it's how one addresses specific room modes and low end issues unique to each space. Multiple subs, definitely worth considering. Replacing gear can only do so much and isn't an answer at this point IMHO. Getting the most out of your current rig would be the first step IMHO (especially spkr setup and listening position).

    Ceilings in the 7ft-8ft range are not helping either, but you work with what one has. Implementing the correct treatment is pretty key - again throwing gear at a "problem" will only do so much and that goes for acoustics as well. People spend 5k-10k on cables, but don't address the acoustics - which I understand can be space/room dependent, which isn't your case. However, spending $$ on proper acoustics, spkr setup + listening position will provide more benefit than some new gear, generally speaking. Again I think it comes down to priorities and how much does one want to get out of their rig and that won't be fully realized with any setup without the aforementioned. Good sound vs. great etc..

    New spkrs may be part of the answer, but again I would exhaust the other items mentioned first. My .02

  42. #42

    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Very, very nice room and system. However, since you asked for opinions I would go for a Pass Labs amp and preamp. There are a few big name companies that I just don't care for and Krell is one of them. Good luck and I hope I didn't hurt any feelings.

  43. #43
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by treitz3 View Post
    Hello all. You cannot just change out parts in the G1 to make it a G2, FYI.

    What types of upstream from the streamer devices do you have to help eradicate the noise(s) from being introduced to your Auralic? If you have not optimized these aspects, then I would suggest looking into this.

    Tom
    Hi Tom.
    Absolutely right. Ive learned about the DJM Gigafoilv4 and have placed an order for one. That along with a Supra Cat 8 + ethernet cable - thanks Craig - Im exited to hear the improvements.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  44. #44
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smile View Post
    Panels look fine; its a nice room.
    Better than DSP, IMO. DSP may be the final touch for low freqs that are harder to treat. Speaker placement will mater there also.
    I know little about room correction but from what ive read, its not a well liked option. Too many downsides for little upsides.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  45. #45
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    My experience with all 3 of the "room correction DSP" systems I've used that are built into full-range amps is that all this extra Signal Processing does no favours to the top end, despite the fact that this top end isn't ADJUSTED. The trouble is (in my opinion) that the entire signal has to pass through the processor and a little of the "goose-bump" factor is lost because of this complex processor. The precious signal cannot avoid the DSP if applied to a full-range amp.

    In an active syatem with amps for each range of frequencies, DSP can be applied solely to the bass amp, while the mid and top reaches their amps totally unmolested by DSP. My Avantgarde Duo XD speakers allow this as they have DSP built into their bass amps. If I engage a Dirac Live filter in my main amp, a little of the magic is lost, even though the bass may be a little flatter. Therefore I leave Dirac Live with No Filter but I do my best (not very well) to set the Avantgarde's XD software for best bass response.

    I found exactly the same problem with RoomPrefect in Lyngdorf amp and MARS in Micromega amp.

    The acoustic of my 945 sq ft semi-circular room with floor-to-ceiling glazing on the curved wall was predictably dire when I first moved here, but addition of 30% carpetting, curtains (never closed) and more soft furnishings, plus very careful speaker placement and setup have improved matters such that I'm happy with no DSP and no artificial room treatment.

    Good luck with your adventure.
    Thanks and appreciate your opinions. Hope you will continue to add
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  46. #46
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkyogre View Post
    A whole list, sorry mate you have nice stuff by the way, but improvements are possible

    - source was mentioned before
    - an audiophile network switch is missing with separate lineair power supply
    - the dac could have a better lineair power supply
    - I donÂ’t know how the dac is hooked, but if it is USB an extra USB isolator can be added
    - do the speakers have antivibration stands? All stuff clear up if you place it on antivibration stands
    - this one had an enormous impact on my set: power everything on a separate group on your fuse box and take an audiophilic fuse
    - take better powercables on everything
    USB Isolator?? Which one would you recommend? I assume this is a noise reduction device.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  47. #47
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkyogre View Post
    The OP didn’t mention PS audio. Can be me, but I don’t know what you mean with 20 amp lines with PS audio outlets.
    Hey there.

    I have 4 PS Audio Power Ports. Each port (2 receptacles) is connected to its own 20 amp line.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  48. #48
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by mulveling View Post
    It feels like people who ask the "weak link" question either have an obvious weak link, or have a beautiful & well balanced system like yours - lol! Speaker choice and speaker / amp matching are huge - but based on personal preference. Sometimes it just takes iterations & trials to know if you've settled on the right match, but if you absolutely love what you've got now then it's safer to stick with it.

    That is a lot of acoustic treatments, with no other furnishings. It it were me, I'd at least try it with a bit less treatment and a bit more cozy / inviting / hybrid of a space though I can't prescribe what that might look like for you, given this is a 100% dedicated audio room. I like a couch, rug, and shelves with vinyl LPs for starters. Maybe some other decorations or visual points of interest. The mindset I gain from feeling "relaxed at home" helps the audio experience as much as anything.

    On power conditioning: when I added a Niagara 7000 to the big rig - I didn't feel it took my sound forward, though I stick with it for the protection. In my smaller rig I tried a Niagara 3000 and thought it actually hurt the sound a little, versus a dirt cheap Furman strip. I've also tried a PS Audio P12 with little if any gain, though the UI was super cool. Ugh. Maybe I have good power? Good power cords on the amps (AQ Hurricanes, or even NRG-1000's on a budget) DOES make a nice difference, though.

    Agree with the usual chorus of "vinyl source". At least find out if you like it. I loved it - it's the only source for me
    Thanks for the input. Always appreciated.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  49. #49
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swisstrips View Post
    I think the room and treatments are excellent and definitely not too many - its a beautiful space. If you want to increase "resolution", one MUST get the room acoustics addressed and spkr setup dialed in - full stop.

    You have put in a lot of effort on room construction as well as addressing some of the key acoustic elements AND its a dedicated space, so you are way ahead of the curve and not at the limitations of a living room/shared space. Certainly, you can get great results in those spaces, but that's not my point.

    The low end is a problem with every room, no way around it and it's how one addresses specific room modes and low end issues unique to each space. Multiple subs, definitely worth considering. Replacing gear can only do so much and isn't an answer at this point IMHO. Getting the most out of your current rig would be the first step IMHO (especially spkr setup and listening position).

    Ceilings in the 7ft-8ft range are not helping either, but you work with what one has. Implementing the correct treatment is pretty key - again throwing gear at a "problem" will only do so much and that goes for acoustics as well. People spend 5k-10k on cables, but don't address the acoustics - which I understand can be space/room dependent, which isn't your case. However, spending $$ on proper acoustics, spkr setup + listening position will provide more benefit than some new gear, generally speaking. Again I think it comes down to priorities and how much does one want to get out of their rig and that won't be fully realized with any setup without the aforementioned. Good sound vs. great etc..

    New spkrs may be part of the answer, but again I would exhaust the other items mentioned first. My .02
    Agree!!
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

  50. #50
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    Re: Your opinion on my weakest link.

    Quote Originally Posted by stereogeek View Post
    Very, very nice room and system. However, since you asked for opinions I would go for a Pass Labs amp and preamp. There are a few big name companies that I just don't care for and Krell is one of them. Good luck and I hope I didn't hurt any feelings.
    Ha! No feelings have been hurt by your comment. For the money, Krell 302e with 600wpc gave me years of total enjoyment.
    That said, I've heard other amps that draw me closer to the music and the Krell amp/pre is not my last setup.
    Mark-
    Krell Evolution Series 302e amp / Krell Evolution 202 Pre Amp / Auralic Aries G1 music server / MSB Analog DAC / Sonus Faber Amati Futura speakers / Bryston BIT20 power conditioner / Symposium Svette Plus Isolation Platform / Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Apeture panels/ Shunyata Altaira Chassis Ground with Alpha Cables/ Wireworld Silver, Gold and Platinum Eclipse cables

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