What brands have really fallen off the map lately?

**Mike** · May 8, 2017, 01:11 PM

What brands have really fallen off the map lately? All good brands, many are great brands, but ones that we just don't read much about these days.

1. Devialet
2. Linn
3. Classe'
4. Manley
5. ...

**wisnon** · May 8, 2017, 01:24 PM

Copland
Proclaim
Audio GD
PrimaLuna
Davis
Vecteur
Merging (a bit) in consumer
Piega (making a comeback)

**Melbguy1** · May 8, 2017, 01:30 PM

I'd add Avalon to that list. Since the Tesseract, yes they have released new models. But they've kept the old models in their lineup without any significant updates for what seems like millenia. Good maybe for fans of established models who want a good thing left well alone, but it makes bad business sense imho. Meanwhile companies like Marten and Magico filter down technology from their reference speakers & regularly phase out old models to make way for the new. And those economies of scale in turn give those companies an incentive to invest in SOTA technology and materials science.

Where does that leave companies like Avalon? Kind of like the used car lot at the Lexus dealership. And that's a shame, because they showed with the Tesseract they can truly innovate and embrace the latest driver technology.

**Kuoppis** · May 8, 2017, 01:43 PM

- Spectral
- Wadia
- Apogee

...the list is long.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**KeithR** · May 8, 2017, 01:49 PM

Krell

**wisnon** · May 8, 2017, 02:44 PM

the last 2 lists are hardly "lately". lol

**Kuoppis** · May 8, 2017, 02:54 PM

Yes, and the second list some junk that never got anywhere in the first place... LOL ha ha.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**wisnon** · May 8, 2017, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Yes, and the second list some junk that never got anywhere in the first place... LOL ha ha.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

ha...its about popularity more than quality...though at least 4 of those names have legit claims to quality.

Have you ever heard Proclaim speaks? Very very nice...
yes..sending you down a rabbit hole with that one.

**Kuoppis** · May 8, 2017, 03:45 PM

Also true.

Have not heard Proclaim, that good huh? They do not happen to make smallish monitors, able to compete with the Harbeth 3PSRs that is?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**wisnon** · May 8, 2017, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Also true.

Have not heard Proclaim, that good huh? They do not happen to make smallish monitors, able to compete with the Harbeth 3PSRs that is?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

no...sorry. i did think about that given your current quest.
heil amt aulos or aulos bookshelf, if you want open baffle dipole sound from 1khz up.

lotus Tanagra is now obsolete...but did get great feedback in its day. Company name is now Apertura...Mike used to carry them.

**tunes** · May 8, 2017, 05:52 PM

Hovland
Aesthetix
Tron

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Alpinist** · May 8, 2017, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by tunes

Hovland
Aesthetix
Tron

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, Aesthetix has really fallen off the map recently. It's ironic because they recently released the Atlas Eclipse stereo and mono amps, Metis preamp and Pandora Eclipse DAC, which are reported to be outstanding components. Unfortunately, I think they priced themselves out of their target market and the new products are less than, umm, aesthetically pleasing.

**KeithR** · May 8, 2017, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by tunes

Hovland
Aesthetix
Tron

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hovland went out of business years ago and Bob himself is retired.

**aardvarkbark** · May 8, 2017, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

What brands have really fallen off the map lately? All good brands, many are great brands, but ones that we just don't read much about these days.

1. Devialet
2. Linn
3. Classe'
4. Manley
5. ...

Were any of these at AXPONIA? I'm under the impression that unless a manufacturer is a paying advertiser at one of the trade journals/sites, we might not read too much about them there. That leaves the shows for generating buzz, I suppose. I guess Munich will have some influence on whether and what we read about these and other brands.

If you mean we don't read about them on the forums, maybe their owners are the confident types who don't need to bleat and blubber about how gosh-awful wonderful their stuff is -- they know it and really don't care what others think. It'd be interesting to see if there is a statistical correlation between brand-specific threads and sales.

**asiufy** · May 8, 2017, 11:15 PM

Linn doesn't do shows, at least not in the US. AFAIK, no reviews in the usual suspects over here either. I believe the last major review I've seen was for the new Klimax DS(/3) on Hi Fi+ last year.

**Kuoppis** · May 9, 2017, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by asiufy

Linn doesn't do shows, at least not in the US. AFAIK, no reviews in the usual suspects over here either. I believe the last major review I've seen was for the new Klimax DS(/3) on Hi Fi+ last year.

I think Linn has been a while a little in the background, while still having a dedicated audience, esp. in the UK. By some they are still considered the bees knees in streaming after launching their Katalyst architecture. But their stubborn rejection of new formats is hurting them.

Further these come to mind:

- Weiss
- DarTZeel

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**Mr Peabody** · May 9, 2017, 12:18 AM

PrimaLuna keeps an active Facebook page.

Originally Posted by wisnon

Copland
Proclaim
Audio GD
PrimaLuna
Davis
Vecteur
Merging (a bit) in consumer
Piega (making a comeback)

**BlueFox** · May 9, 2017, 12:24 AM

Interesting thread, especially since I am not familiar with many of these names. Is this market really that big that small niche players can survive for, let's say, ten years or more?

**Jack** · May 9, 2017, 12:25 AM

And Kevin gets just about every new product PrimaLuna releases reviewed by some publication. They are kind of to the point that in their price category they pretty much sell themselves based on customer word of mouth. They are a standard recommendation in the less than 5k price range.

**Mr Peabody** · May 9, 2017, 12:53 AM

Remember when Shanling and Cayin were hot on the forums for a while after the Chinese audio invasion hit? Shanling did look good, I wonder what happened to them. Cayin may be around still, they had a million or so models, basically making replicas of vintage tube amps.
Another one was Antique Audio Labs, even sold kits.

**Paul** · May 9, 2017, 01:01 AM

Shindo
Line Magnetic
Mod Wright

Bose ?

What brands have really fallen off the map lately?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Bobvin** · May 9, 2017, 01:45 AM

Usher?

the Linn Klimax DS3 is a terrific piece of kit, high on my future streamer list.

**Jack** · May 9, 2017, 02:47 AM

Paul

I don't know about the first two but Modwright got a lot of press from Axpona. Dan keeps evolving with his mods and new products. One of the really good guys in the business.

**hifinutt** · May 9, 2017, 04:45 AM

gosh devaliet is HUGE in Uk , all you hear about is that brand . massive amount of interest . modwright is extremely popular too . and linn , well they are everywhere with their speaker adaptations .

tron sells well I believe but its a fairly small operation

**CPP** · May 9, 2017, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Jack

Paul

I don't know about the first two but Modwright got a lot of press from Axpona. Dan keeps evolving with his mods and new products. One of the really good guys in the business.

Got to agree Jack, Modwright is also well represented on Audiocircle with their own owners thread and Dan is very active over there himself. They have NOT falling off the map.

**hifinutt** · May 9, 2017, 09:06 AM

yes I post on audiocircle modwright forum

**wisnon** · May 9, 2017, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by tunes

Hovland
Aesthetix
Tron

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aesthetix still gets some love over at the Audiogon forum...

**wisnon** · May 9, 2017, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

I think Linn has been a while a little in the background, while still having a dedicated audience, esp. in the UK. By some they are still considered the bees knees in streaming after launching their Katalyst architecture. But their stubborn rejection of new formats is hurting them.

Further these come to mind:

- Weiss
- DarTZeel

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Dart is still prominent at WBF and Weiss himself told me of some projects in the works for this year that will put him back on the map. One is a unique lifestyle product that sounded rather interesting.

DART has big big plans if all his ducks line up...

One could say that the death of both firms have been greatly exaggerated. Let's wait and see...

**wisnon** · May 9, 2017, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

PrimaLuna keeps an active Facebook page.

I agree not dead, but far less buzzy than 4-5 years ago.

**wisnon** · May 9, 2017, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Paul

Shindo
Line Magnetic
Mod Wright

Bose ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Modwright was prominent at Axpona...saw pictures of Dan there. Repped in more than 1 room, IIRC.

Bose...isnt that boombox and car audio only now?

**wisnon** · May 9, 2017, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by hifinutt

gosh devaliet is HUGE in Uk , all you hear about is that brand . massive amount of interest . modwright is extremely popular too . and linn , well they are everywhere with their speaker adaptations .

tron sells well I believe but its a fairly small operation

Tron is the outfit in Lausanne, no?

If so, I dont even hear about them much locally.
Devialet is not as buzzy as before, but still easy to find in storefronts.

**wisnon** · May 9, 2017, 10:00 AM

Like it or not, Audio is a fashion business. One needs to do runway shows to remain relevent, no matter how good your tech is. LoL

**Kuoppis** · May 9, 2017, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

Dart is still prominent at WBF and Weiss himself told me of some projects in the works for this year that will put him back on the map. One is a unique lifestyle product that sounded rather interesting.

DART has big big plans if all his ducks line up...

One could say that the death of both firms have been greatly exaggerated. Let's wait and see...

Sure, but I would say Devialet is more alive than either of them. Latest Dart launches weren't even properly reviewed and the last Weiss standout was the 202, which is long past its sell-by date.

So, altogether a bit boring situation.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**hifinutt** · May 9, 2017, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

Tron is the outfit in Lausanne, no?

If so, I dont even hear about them much locally.
Devialet is not as buzzy as before, but still easy to find in storefronts.

ah the only tron I know is this one
in UK
http://www.tron-electric.co.uk/

**KeithR** · May 9, 2017, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Sure, but I would say Devialet is more alive than either of them. Latest Dart launches weren't even properly reviewed and the last Weiss standout was the 202, which is long past its sell-by date.

So, altogether a bit boring situation.

I think Fremer said the Dart preamp review is coming shortly. There was a CTH review on Scot Hull's site last year.

Several of the firms on this list are known to be slow with releases - Spectral for instance. Devore Fidelity on the speaker side (my Xs took 4.5 years to finish design...and which still don't have a published review a year later.)

**wisnon** · May 9, 2017, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by hifinutt

ah the only tron I know is this one
in UK
http://www.tron-electric.co.uk/

My bad!

**wisnon** · May 9, 2017, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Sure, but I would say Devialet is more alive than either of them. Latest Dart launches weren't even properly reviewed and the last Weiss standout was the 202, which is long past its sell-by date.

So, altogether a bit boring situation.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Dart did have the LHC-208 ethernet Dac which was well received in the French audio press...but 2 years ago. Same as his revised/updated preamp that was well talked up at WBF.

**Dr Tone** · May 9, 2017, 04:46 PM

Devialet's attention is elsewhere these days.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...mpid=flipboard

**wisnon** · May 9, 2017, 05:08 PM

Yup..You know they didnt even startoff with Audio in mind...

**Bruce** · May 9, 2017, 11:53 PM

Hmmm of the cuff--

Aerial

Soundlabs

Electrocompaniet

Music First

Bruce

**Kuoppis** · May 10, 2017, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Bruce

Hmmm of the cuff--

Aerial

Soundlabs

Electrocompaniet

Music First

Bruce

Know the others, but don't know Bruce - what's their specialty?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**Bruce** · May 10, 2017, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Know the others, but don't know Bruce - what's their specialty?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Has Ultra fast response to the female buyer

!

Yes I was wondering who would be first!

Brucey boy

**Kuoppis** · May 10, 2017, 06:09 PM

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**kev313** · May 11, 2017, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by KeithR

I think Fremer said the Dart preamp review is coming shortly. There was a CTH review on Scot Hull's site last year.

Several of the firms on this list are known to be slow with releases - Spectral for instance. Devore Fidelity on the speaker side (my Xs took 4.5 years to finish design...and which still don't have a published review a year later.)

I'm also surprised that there has been no review of the X given the long build up. In any event Devore has been doing quite well I believe and there has been steady press on the O series.

I think this is less of a "fashion" business than has been suggested. If audio designers had to keep of with the short attention span of the 300 audio nerds who populate the forums, the smaller independent outfits - like Devore - would never survive. It's possible they simply don't care if you think they are relevant as they have a successful enterprise without being a forum darling. I recently stepped off the Shindo bus, but I believe that a relatively small portion of their overall sales in the US were from forum traffic and they haven't shown the brand at a big show in probably a decade. Rather, they have cultivated some key industry figures as fans and rely on great dealers and less public word of mouth. It's simply the route they have taken and I suspect it has been quite profitable. The same probably applies to Tron (who also took the Audio Note price escalation route with their signature, super signature, super duper special signature models to increase revenue).

Line Magnetic? Who knows. Probably the Shindo mentality applies given the distribution is the same. But that company is prolific and the US only sees a small portion of what they offer.

Trying to keep up of the forums and in the press as a hot brand is a tough gig. Lots of work to constantly develop product. Lots of potential to "miss".

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**tunes** · May 11, 2017, 04:25 PM

+1
Agreed. Good post.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**sheltie1** · May 11, 2017, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Paul

Shindo
Line Magnetic
Mod Wright

Bose ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't think I would include Line Magnetic.....it's still selling extremely well (can't keep the new 508ia in stock). And as far as I know, Shindo is as well.

**Mr Peabody** · May 11, 2017, 09:46 PM

What about WAVAC?

Thread: What brands have really fallen off the map lately?