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  1. #1

    We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    We are currently experiencing a golden age of affordable high-end audio. The main component, music, is now more accessible than ever before. For just $15 per month, which was the cost of a single CD just a few years ago, anyone can have access to millions of tracks, including high-definition recordings that cost $25 per album today. It's no surprise that streaming has become the preferred medium for listening to music.

    Today, excellent digital components are available that eliminate the need to worry about jitter or other digital issues. For just a few hundred dollars, anyone can purchase or build a streaming device, and there are also DACs available with much better specifications than DACs that would have cost thousands of dollars just a few years ago.

    So far, the total cost is less than $1,000, excluding the music.

    For those who prefer headphones, it's possible to invest in a headphone/amp combo and still end up with an amazing sounding high-end audio system for just a few thousand dollars in total.

    For those who prefer listening via speakers, a new generation of active speakers (speaker/amp combo) are available for much less money than it would cost to buy separates. These speakers come with amps optimized for that speaker and may even have digital signal processing (DSP) capabilities to improve the acoustics of the room.

  2. #2
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Audio at the extremes has gotten so much better. I’m kind of shocked at how good digital and solid state are today vs 10 years ago. Even turntables/arms/carts continue to improve. And budget quality audio has gone off the charts. Heck a little integrated and those Polk audio speakers I heard a while back and you’re off to the races.

    What the audio world has witnessed (and will witness is in all its glory in about 10 days from now in Munich Germany) is a influx of young, hungry, creative companies. Those resting on their laurels are going to be caught off guard.


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  3. #3
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    For those who prefer listening via speakers, a new generation of active speakers (speaker/amp combo) are available for much less money than it would cost to buy separates. These speakers come with amps optimized for that speaker and may even have digital signal processing (DSP) capabilities to improve the acoustics of the room.
    Yes, though perhaps active speakers will soon reduce in price as currently it is generally high cost brands that have initiated this trend. Maybe in a few years, good sounding active speakers will become available at budget prices.

    There are perhaps as many hi-fi buffs, who get huge pleasure in buying costly boxes to display on their equipment racks, as there are those interested solely in the end result - music at highest sound quality. For the latter group, the allure of magnificent-looking turntables doesn't exist, nor the shelves of costly vinyl. They will enjoy the increasingly extensive range of active speakers that will include a streaming ability, fed by increasingly high definition digital files.

    Avantgarde's new G3 speakers are already fully active (with passive alternative for the former group perhaps!) and will soon sport a streamer module. What's left? - just the power cable! Bring it on, I say.

    I suspect though, most of us will spend just as much dosh on a pair of streaming active speakers as we do on our multiple units, but the end result – the music – will be of far higher fidelity. I’ll be seriously considering the Avantgarde Duo GT when the streamer module becomes available, though its cost will exceed the current list price of all my existing kit.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  4. #4

    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    I remember in the early 90’s Meridian showed us the future with their active speakers. Was quite impressive for the time but they were never a huge hit and I’m not sure that active speakers are likely to be the main path most audiophile’s will choose in the near future either as it takes away the ability to mix and match components to create the exact sound you are looking for. Also takes away flexibility around growing the system over time. I get it that it makes sense and this might be more popular in the future but I think it’s a little ways off from being the main path forward in the high end. I think it will possibly be more popular in the lower price products sooner rather than later as the folks buying lower priced gear often care as much about space savings as they do performance and powered speakers have the potential to deliver on both space savings and value. Just not sure most of us in high end today are ready to give up ultimate flexibility for what powered speakers deliver.

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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    I wonder why, when we buy cars we visit a showroom or two after research and buy a model complete with an engine, gearbox, seats and other important parts, all chosen by BMW or Audi, whereas we think we know better when it comes to audio. Perhaps more of us should put faith in the likes of Avantgarde to build as complete and satisfying a product as Audi does with their cars.

    Or perhaps we should cobble together our cars with a body from Audi, an engine from BMW and a gearbox from Cadillac? The days of the coackbuilder in the car industry have long gone and perhaps cars are the better for it. Will audio follow?
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  6. #6

    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by gadawg View Post
    I remember in the early 90’s Meridian showed us the future with their active speakers. Was quite impressive for the time but they were never a huge hit and I’m not sure that active speakers are likely to be the main path most audiophile’s will choose in the near future either as it takes away the ability to mix and match components to create the exact sound you are looking for. Also takes away flexibility around growing the system over time. I get it that it makes sense and this might be more popular in the future but I think it’s a little ways off from being the main path forward in the high end. I think it will possibly be more popular in the lower price products sooner rather than later as the folks buying lower priced gear often care as much about space savings as they do performance and powered speakers have the potential to deliver on both space savings and value. Just not sure most of us in high end today are ready to give up ultimate flexibility for what powered speakers deliver.

    George
    The Meridian's audio system was certainly ahead of its time. However, it's been 30 years since then, and much has changed in the audiophile world.

    Back then, "flexibility" was a smart approach to building an audio system, especially given the still-developing digital technology. Top-of-the-line CD players, DACs, and Transports that cost several thousand dollars were quickly replaced the following year by newer, cheaper models.

    Today, most people are listening to music via the internet (the world wide web did not exist in 1990) and there is no longer a need for CD players or transports. Jitter has been well understood and dealt with, and DAC technology has matured, with units that cost just a few hundred dollars now performing better than ones that cost thousands not long ago. Similarly, amplifier technology has also improved, with powerful Class D amps now available for a fraction of the cost of traditional Class A/Class A-B amplifiers.

    Since speaker manufacturers know their product better than anyone else, they can take advantage of the existing mature technologies (streamers, DACs, and amps) and build that technology into their speakers. As a result, there is no longer a need for "flexibility" as the electronics have already been optimized for the speakers. And let's not forget that these active speakers do not need speaker cables or fancy interconnects either!

    I anticipate that other high-end speaker manufacturers will be following the same road as Avantgarde.

  7. #7
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    I don't think fully active loudspeakers, no matter who makes them or how expensive they will cost, will ever replace separate components and traditional "passive" loudspeakers.

    The traditional high-end setup allows you to tailor the sound of your system to your liking and your room. Combinations of various preamps, amps, DACs, cables, loudspeakers and driver types, all get you to where you want your system to be with some trial and error.

    With active loudspeakers, you're stuck with the drivers they use, their amps, their DACs, etc, etc, and the ONLY way to get the sound (if it's even possible) of that type of system to meet your liking and room is via DSP and EQ.

    No thanks. The last thing any serious listener/hifi enthusiast wants is more digital processing on top of digital processing.

    Active loudspeakers are alright for small secondary systems or background music or part of a small, decent HT system, but not for serious hifi.

    And unless they make these active loudspeakers modular to where you can pull out the amps, or DACs, or streamers, or analog input sections, etc, etc yourself, it's going to be a major pain in the butt when and if an amp or DAC or something else fails in the loudspeakers. You'll have to ship off the entire loudspeaker, if not both of them. Have fun with that.
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  8. #8
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by chops View Post
    I don't think fully active loudspeakers, no matter who makes them or how expensive they will cost, will ever replace separate components and traditional "passive" loudspeakers.


    No thanks. The last thing any serious listener/hifi enthusiast wants is more digital processing on top of digital processing.

    Active loudspeakers are alright for small secondary systems or background music or part of a small, decent HT system, but not for serious hifi.
    Your first point, I hope you are wrong and that high quality active speakers become the norm in high end music systems bought by music lovers rather than by box boasters! Those who prefer to tinker around can join the "tube rollers" and continue to enjoy their hobby of equipment swapping.

    Second point - agree 100%. Ever more signal processing must surely degrade the precious signal. However one of the beauties of fully active speaker systems is that DSP can be built into the bass amp alone, thus leaving the top and middle unmolested by DSP, while the bass can (if necessary) by DSP'd to overcome room acoustic anomalies. Best of both worlds maybe?

    Third point - I suspect some degree of upgradability will become available in top notch active speakers. The new Avantgardes for example have space in their enclosures for the iTron active electronics and/or the passive crossover. If there was any significant future tech that renders the iTron amp anything less than ideal, AG would doubtless offer an iTron Mk II that could easily be swapped for the existing one, in much the same way NAD offers new modules that are user-exchangeable to replace earlier versions or to add connectivity. However, I suspect the need to upgrade may be a decade or two in the future and by then everything including the speaker itself may be such that well-heeled owners will be thinking of moving on – possibly to G4 Avantgardes!

  9. #9
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    Your first point, I hope you are wrong and that high quality active speakers become the norm in high end music systems bought by music lovers rather than by box boasters! Those who prefer to tinker around can join the "tube rollers" and continue to enjoy their hobby of equipment swapping.

    Second point - agree 100%. Ever more signal processing must surely degrade the precious signal. However one of the beauties of fully active speaker systems is that DSP can be built into the bass amp alone, thus leaving the top and middle unmolested by DSP, while the bass can (if necessary) by DSP'd to overcome room acoustic anomalies. Best of both worlds maybe?

    Third point - I suspect some degree of upgradability will become available in top notch active speakers. The new Avantgardes for example have space in their enclosures for the iTron active electronics and/or the passive crossover. If there was any significant future tech that renders the iTron amp anything less than ideal, AG would doubtless offer an iTron Mk II that could easily be swapped for the existing one, in much the same way NAD offers new modules that are user-exchangeable to replace earlier versions or to add connectivity. However, I suspect the need to upgrade may be a decade or two in the future and by then everything including the speaker itself may be such that well-heeled owners will be thinking of moving on – possibly to G4 Avantgardes!
    I put active loudspeakers (high quality or not) in the same category as these new "all-in-one" units that are popping up everywhere from companies such as the Naim Uniti Atom, Cambridge Audio Evo 75/150, HiFi Rose RS520, Lyngdorf TDAI-1120, and whatever else is out there. They're designed for people who appreciate good sound but don't want to be bothered with a bunch of equipment and want these all-in-one units to do the thinking for them. The same as someone who appreciates good sounding home theater and is completely satisfied with a decent soundbar system vs someone with an all-out dedicated home theater and all separate gear, speakers, amplifiers, subs, etc, etc.

    IOW, these types of systems and active loudspeakers are NOT and will NOT be a replacement for the real deal. And if what you say, loudspeaker companies making active systems only use DSP/EQ to fix the bass, that will be horrible as well since there will be nothing to be done to fix thin or bloated midrange, or bright or roll-off top end. You're just stuck with whatever.

    Sure, all of these all-in-one units and active loudspeakers are gaining traction, but they are not a replacement for separate gear and quality passive loudspeakers. They're just for a different kind of clientele.
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  10. #10
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    > They're designed for people who appreciate good sound but don't want to be bothered with a bunch of equipment and want these all-in-one units to do the thinking for them.

    For music lovers (as opposed to equipment buffs), nothing wrong in that.

    > And if what you say, loudspeaker companies making active systems only use DSP/EQ to fix the bass, that will be horrible as well since there will be nothing to be done to fix thin or bloated midrange, or bright or roll-off top end. You're just stuck with whatever.

    Now that seems to be suggesting that DSP is a good thing! Not what you said earlier. If the midrange is thin or bloated, then that particular product is not for you – there are (or will be) plenty of alternatives, or you need to address the problem in other ways such as room furnishing, carpets, etc. To fix the problems you mention using DSP is surely not ideal. Bass DSP is another matter as some room problem that adversely affect the bass cannot be fixed by other means and DSP applied to the bass does not reduce the excitement factor of the music.

    > Sure, all of these all-in-one units and active loudspeakers are gaining traction, but they are not a replacement for separate gear and quality passive loudspeakers.

    I think they are. With modern technology and minituration of components, high end integrated amps are now much more accepted and of equally fine quality as a preamp and a pair of monos (within reason). Then why not put a DAC the size of a matchbox into the integrated amp case? We've already ditched several costly cables that never add to sound quality. OK, there's surely room for a streamer module too, so this can go into the same box without loss of quality, if designed for high end sound - another cable ditched. Next logical stage is to ditch the passive XO that is often quoted as the biggest sound degenerating aspect in a good system. This means an electronic XO and 3 amps, but these are now so small and sensibly priced (or can be), the whole lot could be packaged into a compact module that can be built into the speaker enclosure.

    You'll still have to home audition these high end active speakers, but I'm sure that the one that suits your room will knock spots off an existing multi-box system cobbled together over a decade or so and all connected together with a snake-pit of cables that do no favours to the sound. Your Signature suggests a significant number of boxes that are designed individually by several companies, probably of widely differing vintage and performance levels. The thought of selling off these carefully chosen gems to be replaced by a single significant purchase may be hugely unattractive, but on the other hand, it may hugely improve what eventually reaches your ears. But of course that takes away a lot of the hobby aspect of audio! Personally, I'd like to reduce my 2-box plus full-range speakers (I despise subs!) to a pair of better-sounding speakers that require nothing more than power and Ethernet cables. My living room would be tidied up and offer more room for its main purpose as a living room without compromise to my love of music. It's music I love, not the pile of boxes that's considered necessary to produce it - but maybe it's just me that's odd!
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  11. #11
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    > They're designed for people who appreciate good sound but don't want to be bothered with a bunch of equipment and want these all-in-one units to do the thinking for them.

    For music lovers (as opposed to equipment buffs), nothing wrong in that.

    > And if what you say, loudspeaker companies making active systems only use DSP/EQ to fix the bass, that will be horrible as well since there will be nothing to be done to fix thin or bloated midrange, or bright or roll-off top end. You're just stuck with whatever.

    Now that seems to be suggesting that DSP is a good thing! Not what you said earlier. If the midrange is thin or bloated, then that particular product is not for you – there are (or will be) plenty of alternatives, or you need to address the problem in other ways such as room furnishing, carpets, etc. To fix the problems you mention using DSP is surely not ideal. Bass DSP is another matter as some room problem that adversely affect the bass cannot be fixed by other means and DSP applied to the bass does not reduce the excitement factor of the music.

    > Sure, all of these all-in-one units and active loudspeakers are gaining traction, but they are not a replacement for separate gear and quality passive loudspeakers.

    I think they are. With modern technology and minituration of components, high end integrated amps are now much more accepted and of equally fine quality as a preamp and a pair of monos (within reason). Then why not put a DAC the size of a matchbox into the integrated amp case? We've already ditched several costly cables that never add to sound quality. OK, there's surely room for a streamer module too, so this can go into the same box without loss of quality, if designed for high end sound - another cable ditched. Next logical stage is to ditch the passive XO that is often quoted as the biggest sound degenerating aspect in a good system. This means an electronic XO and 3 amps, but these are now so small and sensibly priced (or can be), the whole lot could be packaged into a compact module that can be built into the speaker enclosure.

    You'll still have to home audition these high end active speakers, but I'm sure that the one that suits your room will knock spots off an existing multi-box system cobbled together over a decade or so and all connected together with a snake-pit of cables that do no favours to the sound. Your Signature suggests a significant number of boxes that are designed individually by several companies, probably of widely differing vintage and performance levels. The thought of selling off these carefully chosen gems to be replaced by a single significant purchase may be hugely unattractive, but on the other hand, it may hugely improve what eventually reaches your ears. But of course that takes away a lot of the hobby aspect of audio! Personally, I'd like to reduce my 2-box plus full-range speakers (I despise subs!) to a pair of better-sounding speakers that require nothing more than power and Ethernet cables. My living room would be tidied up and offer more room for its main purpose as a living room without compromise to my love of music. It's music I love, not the pile of boxes that's considered necessary to produce it - but maybe it's just me that's odd!
    Nothing at all wrong with music lovers, but they'll never get the most out of the music with an all-in-one or active loudspeaker solution.

    I would never suggest DSP as a good thing. Just saying that some things can not be addressed with room treatments. If a speaker sounds muddy, tubby, dull, shrilly, thin, tinny, not much can be solved with speaker placement or room treatments in that case. Best to move on to different speakers.

    Modern tech doesn't always mean better. There are plenty of top-notch Class D amps out there right now that still don't compare to a top quality Class A or Class AB amplifier. Throwing in compact DACs and streamers doesn't exactly improve performance either. It's well known that dedicated beefy, solid power supplies for a particular purpose is preferred, even for a simple DAC or preamp or streamer to perform their best. And yes, active/digital crossovers have their advantages, but so do passive crossovers. And if one is allowed to tweak the active crossover on their own, there's zero guarantee that they will ever get the loudspeakers to perform their best.

    Also, you said in your last post that "cables never add to sound quality" or "snake-pit of cables that do no favors to the sound", essentially the same thing, but I disagree. Cables DO in fact add to the sound, though those differences can either be for the better or for the worse. Just like picking equipment, it's trail and error.

    Please, don't pay too much attention to my system signature as there's going to be a few major changes/improvements happening in the near future. I will admit however, even though I have a hodge-podge of "average quality" audio equipment, people would be highly surprised at how good the system sounds currently. But the near future upgrades are sure to take this system up several notches.
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  12. #12
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    If you are going to use DSP it should be full frequency just as in home theater. That's why there are various room treatments not just bass traps. Your entire spectrum needs to be, addressed.

    Argue all you wish the future will tell. There are many very good active speakers from ATC, Dynaudio and Goldman to name a few, this just isn't going to be the norm. Those who think it is will carry more weight when they themselves have those type of speakers. Until then it's more being a troll and clanging pans.

    There are good and bad for both options, it's just folks are not embracing the everything in a speaker route. May be different in other countries. I don't know one audiophile who has the active speaker set up.

    Say what you will, if you spend as much on your speakers as you would for a luxury automobile then it's NOT just about the music. If it was you'd have a JBL party box, Bluetooth and call it a day.
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post

    Say what you will, if you spend as much on your speakers as you would for a luxury automobile then it's NOT just about the music. If it was you'd have a JBL party box, Bluetooth and call it a day.
    My Lexus cost a lot more than a JBL party box (whatever that is) and Bluetooth. Though my Maggies didn't cost me anywhere near that of the Lexus.
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    I think there are two customer personas in high-end audio.

    The music lover uses equipment as a means to an end - the enjoyment of music in their home. This group would embrace Active Speakers with all their potential benefits, especially if modern electronics could make speaker placement more designer-friendly.

    The equipment lover certainly loves music, but is also deep into the acquisition, setup. and optimization of the equipment. The whole can be greater than the sum of its parts. So for the equipment oriented high end customers, selecting the right components and then optimizing them becomes a quest unto itself. This customer group would never opt for an Active Speaker setup, knowing they can do better themselves.
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    But a set of AG's would give the Lexus a run for the money.

    And, if you don't know the Party Box it may cost as much as a Lexus, LOL Not hardly

    My point, if we spend a good portion for good sound it's just not about the music, we want the music to sound the best we can get it. Both don't have to be mutually exclusive. I love music, collected as long as I can remember and began on a suitcase record player but I prefer what I have now.

    I believe it will always be difficult for most to get their head around just streaming to a set of speakers.

    Quote Originally Posted by chops View Post
    My Lexus cost a lot more than a JBL party box (whatever that is) and Bluetooth. Though my Maggies didn't cost me anywhere near that of the Lexus.
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  16. #16
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    We are currently experiencing a golden age of affordable high-end audio. The main component, music, is now more accessible than ever before. For just $15 per month, which was the cost of a single CD just a few years ago, anyone can have access to millions of tracks, including high-definition recordings that cost $25 per album today. It's no surprise that streaming has become the preferred medium for listening to music.

    Today, excellent digital components are available that eliminate the need to worry about jitter or other digital issues. For just a few hundred dollars, anyone can purchase or build a streaming device, and there are also DACs available with much better specifications than DACs that would have cost thousands of dollars just a few years ago.

    So far, the total cost is less than $1,000, excluding the music.

    For those who prefer headphones, it's possible to invest in a headphone/amp combo and still end up with an amazing sounding high-end audio system for just a few thousand dollars in total.

    For those who prefer listening via speakers, a new generation of active speakers (speaker/amp combo) are available for much less money than it would cost to buy separates. These speakers come with amps optimized for that speaker and may even have digital signal processing (DSP) capabilities to improve the acoustics of the room.
    These are the good old days. Right now. For me, there's no question. Awesome sounding music is dirt cheap. Digital has gotten so good its better than 90% of my vinyl. At 1/4 the cost. No need to invest in a TT setup or some fiddly and expensive reel to reel. Of course if either is your passion there are awesome products to fuel your desire. Prerecorded tapes have never been better. No bad news here.

    The headphone world is innovating like crazy with new companies like ZMF producing incredible boutique products that perform at the very highest levels. My ZMF Atrium Redheart phones are running rings around my Focal and Audeze cans. Truly special.

    The classic two channel folks have an incredible range of choice in components that are well engineered and sound fantastic.

    The midrange and basic components have never been better, moving the point of diminishing returns to unheard of levels.

    It's great to be here.
    Tom

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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    A system that definitely exemplifies Nicoff's original premise of a new generation of actives is the Dutch & Dutch 8c @$15k. Speakers, amps, DAC, and streaming are all there. Plug in an ethernet cable, point Roon, Qobuz, or Tidal to them, and you're good to go. They'll even adapt to the room. Go ahead and place them close to the front wall if you like. You won't spend much time thinking about their DSP magic, as they sound amazing right out of the box, especially for that kind of money. They would be very satisfying, even for a "serious audiophile" like me.
    2 Channel:
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  18. #18
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Another poster proving my point. I'm sure those speakers are nice but what is in the signature. No one is disputing those all-in-a-speaker produtcts exist, but, whose using them?

    I suppose time will tell if these companies sell enough units to make the product continue to be viable.
    Quote Originally Posted by TomS View Post
    A system that definitely exemplifies Nicoff's original premise of a new generation of actives is the Dutch & Dutch 8c @$15k. Speakers, amps, DAC, and streaming are all there. Plug in an ethernet cable, point Roon, Qobuz, or Tidal to them, and you're good to go. They'll even adapt to the room. Go ahead and place them close to the front wall if you like. You won't spend much time thinking about their DSP magic, as they sound amazing right out of the box, especially for that kind of money. They would be very satisfying, even for a "serious audiophile" like me.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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  19. #19
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by chops View Post
    My Lexus cost a lot more than a JBL party box (whatever that is) and Bluetooth. Though my Maggies didn't cost me anywhere near that of the Lexus.
    Ah, but was your Lexus bought as an "all-in-one" or did you buy a Lexus body with a BMW engine and an Audi interior?

    I can't see any reason why a good all-in-one shouldn't be as satisfactory (and in fact probably better) than the cobbled together mix-and-match alternative - car or audio!
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  20. #20

    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    If you are going to use DSP it should be full frequency just as in home theater. That's why there are various room treatments not just bass traps. Your entire spectrum needs to be, addressed.

    Argue all you wish the future will tell. There are many very good active speakers from ATC, Dynaudio and Goldman to name a few, this just isn't going to be the norm. Those who think it is will carry more weight when they themselves have those type of speakers. Until then it's more being a troll and clanging pans.

    There are good and bad for both options, it's just folks are not embracing the everything in a speaker route. May be different in other countries. I don't know one audiophile who has the active speaker set up.

    Say what you will, if you spend as much on your speakers as you would for a luxury automobile then it's NOT just about the music. If it was you'd have a JBL party box, Bluetooth and call it a day.
    You know nothing, Jon Snow! (Ygritte)

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  21. #21

    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    Ah, but was your Lexus bought as an "all-in-one" or did you buy a Lexus body with a BMW engine and an Audi interior?

    I can't see any reason why a good all-in-one shouldn't be as satisfactory (and in fact probably better) than the cobbled together mix-and-match alternative - car or audio!
    The reason the all in one won’t likely be as satisfactory nor anywhere near as good as the cobbled together mix and match is because in order for this to be the case every speaker company would have to get as good at building amps, DACs, streamers as they are as building speakers in the first place. Not likely to happen. Nor will Boulder likely compete with Wilson or Magico anytime soon.

    The only way I see this being a serious direction is if all companies agreed to a standard for size and shape of these components and built them so folks could still have their Wilson XVX with Boulder amps … just the form factor would be different than it is today. Then again that’s assuming that the Boulder performance could be built into a speaker cabinet in the first place which I highly doubt. Then there are the tube guys like me …

    It was said earlier and I agree totally … that time as always … will tell! :-)

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  22. #22
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    Ah, but was your Lexus bought as an "all-in-one" or did you buy a Lexus body with a BMW engine and an Audi interior?

    I can't see any reason why a good all-in-one shouldn't be as satisfactory (and in fact probably better) than the cobbled together mix-and-match alternative - car or audio!

    An "all-in-one" car... Really? That has to be one of, if not the worse kind of comparison. On a side note, my Lexus is a 2001 LS430, rumored to be the best Lexus that Lexus ever built, even to this day. And considering it hasn't spent a single day in the shop for some silly repairs in the last 22 years and 228,000+ miles, that's saying something.

    Also, unless I missed it somewhere within this thread, it seems as though you are the only one that is raring and willing to ditch your system for an active loudspeaker setup.
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  23. #23

    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by gadawg View Post
    The reason the all in one won’t likely be as satisfactory nor anywhere near as good as the cobbled together mix and match is because in order for this to be the case every speaker company would have to get as good at building amps, DACs, streamers as they are as building speakers in the first place. Not likely to happen. Nor will Boulder likely compete with Wilson or Magico anytime soon.
    There is no longer anything esoteric about building good amps, DACs, and streamers. These are now mature technologies. Speaker manufacturers can outsource those devices and add them into their speakers relatively cheap (while charging us much more for it).

    The only way I see this being a serious direction is if all companies agreed to a standard for size and shape of these components and built them so folks could still have their Wilson XVX with Boulder amps … just the form factor would be different than it is today. Then again that’s assuming that the Boulder performance could be built into a speaker cabinet in the first place which I highly doubt. Then there are the tube guys like me …
    I do not see it that way at all. Speaker manufacturers have no need to standardize anything since today they can purchase customized Amp/DAC/Streamers fairly cheaply. I foresee that the demand for stand alone Amps, DACs, and Streamers will decrease over the years. Corollary: Companies that manufacture Amp/DAC/Streamers but do not manufacture speakers WILL be negatively affected by this trend. Those companies (which includes Boulder) better have a Plan B.

  24. #24
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by gadawg View Post
    The reason the all in one won’t likely be as satisfactory nor anywhere near as good as the cobbled together mix and match is because in order for this to be the case every speaker company would have to get as good at building amps, DACs, streamers as they are as building speakers in the first place. Not likely to happen.

    George
    Fortunately the market has developed in such a way that brands don't need to start from scratch if looking for streamer, DAC, amp or DSP to include in their fully active speakers.

    The skill of the brand will be select the right module that best suits their system. A range of Class D amps is available for the industry to pick from and similarly DACs, streamers and DSP. They will probably get the basic module tweaked to suit their requirements and may well build under license - as NAD does with Purifi Eigentakt amp modules. This should end up with a better and much less costly system if proper comparisons are made.

    The Dutch & Dutch is one of the first modern active speakers as opposed to traditional ones such as ATC. Avantgarde is following suit at a far higher level of offering but (when the forthcoming streamer module becomes available) their G3 range will offer the same features. Others are doing the same too. The age of modern all-in-one active speakers will develop quickly and leave the hugely costly brands building single-application electronics struggling to compete. AR has gone, though probably for other reasons, but I suspect the range of high cost amps, DACs etc will reduce as high end actives catch on, as surely they will.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  25. #25
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by chops View Post
    And considering it hasn't spent a single day in the shop for some silly repairs in the last 22 years and 228,000+ miles, that's saying something.


    Also, unless I missed it somewhere within this thread, it seems as though you are the only one that is raring and willing to ditch your system for an active loudspeaker setup.
    You make a very good case for the complex product designed and built by a single company - Lexus in your example. Why do you think that the likes of Avantgarde won't offer the same quality, reliability, longevity, pride of ownership and everything you love about your vintage Lexus?

    There are others here who agree that actives will become increasingly popular over the next several years - read the replies or look at the Likes.

    There will still of course be dinosaurs who love to show off their beautiful work-of-art turntables, piles of single-use electronics and their associated snake-pit of cables and shelves sagging under the weight of a thousand LPs, but most will sooner or later see the light as they visit showrooms and shows to listen to modern active systems.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  26. #26
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    Another poster proving my point. I'm sure those speakers are nice but what is in the signature. No one is disputing those all-in-a-speaker produtcts exist, but, whose using them?

    I suppose time will tell if these companies sell enough units to make the product continue to be viable.
    As with all audio, choosing the right unit that suits your listening preferences and your room is key. If Dutch & Dutch doesn't float your boat, then another active speaker system will.

    You change speakers every 10 years or so, so careful selection is vital. The difference is, you make this selection once, whereas you have to make the right choice every time you change any part of a multi-box system and your choice depends, not only on the 2 factors already mentioned, but the new item has to be compatible with and work in perfect harmony with the rest of the system.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  27. #27
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    You active speaker guys need to get out to the shows more. Active is not, taking over.

    This thread is going in circles. I'll end with this, it has been said you lead by example. Or, if you talk the talk, you need to walk the walk. My position will not change until I begin to see folks actually using these active speakers as a main system.

    Here Here, you look at the "likes" but you should be paying attention to the gear in the sigs. That's what's used, that's where the dollars went.
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  28. #28
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    You active speaker guys need to get out to the shows more. Active is not, taking over.

    This thread is going in circles. I'll end with this, it has been said you lead by example. Or, if you talk the talk, you need to walk the walk. My position will not change until I begin to see folks actually using these active speakers as a main system.

    Here Here, you look at the "likes" but you should be paying attention to the gear in the sigs. That's what's used, that's where the dollars went.
    Yes, lots of users of this forum (in particular) have mega bucks tied up in their single-use boxes, so actives will be a hard sell to these die hards to ditch their costly boxes in favour of a pair of speakers, even though these may well be better at reproducing music as it was oroginally heard in the live performance.

    It will be interesting to read reviews of the Munich Show. My hunch is that there will be more modern (not traditional ones such as ATC) active speakers that need nothing more than power and Ethernet cables. And my second hunch is that many of these will receive rave reviews. We don't have long to wait!
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  29. #29
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by gadawg View Post
    The reason the all in one won’t likely be as satisfactory nor anywhere near as good as the cobbled together mix and match is because in order for this to be the case every speaker company would have to get as good at building amps, DACs, streamers as they are as building speakers in the first place. Not likely to happen. Nor will Boulder likely compete with Wilson or Magico anytime soon.

    The only way I see this being a serious direction is if all companies agreed to a standard for size and shape of these components and built them so folks could still have their Wilson XVX with Boulder amps … just the form factor would be different than it is today. Then again that’s assuming that the Boulder performance could be built into a speaker cabinet in the first place which I highly doubt. Then there are the tube guys like me …

    It was said earlier and I agree totally … that time as always … will tell! :-)

    George
    You might be looking at this from a North American perspective. In Europe there seems to be several high end companies that provide the whole enchilada. Take MBL, Burmester, Gryphion as examples. They all do provide everything with varying degrees of success as does McIntosh in NA.
    Jim

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  30. #30
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    You make a very good case for the complex product designed and built by a single company - Lexus in your example. Why do you think that the likes of Avantgarde won't offer the same quality, reliability, longevity, pride of ownership and everything you love about your vintage Lexus?

    There are others here who agree that actives will become increasingly popular over the next several years - read the replies or look at the Likes.

    There will still of course be dinosaurs who love to show off their beautiful work-of-art turntables, piles of single-use electronics and their associated snake-pit of cables and shelves sagging under the weight of a thousand LPs, but most will sooner or later see the light as they visit showrooms and shows to listen to modern active systems.
    I never said that Avantgarde or anyone else wouldn't make a quality, reliable active loudspeaker. Nor did I say that they wouldn't become increasingly popular.

    What I DID say is that no serious audiophile will sell off all of his/her gear in favor of a all-in-one active loudspeaker, and that active loudspeakers will NEVER replace a full-on traditional system.
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  31. #31
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    You might be looking at this from a North American perspective. In Europe there seems to be several high end companies that provide the whole enchilada. Take MBL, Burmester, Gryphion as examples. They all do provide everything with varying degrees of success as does McIntosh in NA.
    Also Bryston and PS Audio in NA.
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by chops View Post

    What I DID say is that no serious audiophile will sell off all of his/her gear in favor of a all-in-one active loudspeaker, and that active loudspeakers will NEVER replace a full-on traditional system.
    But please explain why this may be. If a good all-in-one sounds better than a multi-box systen cobbled together by an "audiophile", why shouldn't the sensible audiophile not improve his listening experience by moving to the all-in-one?

    Is it merely a vanily reason - some high end stuff does look lovely - that collectors of fancy box place this aspect of the hobby above the sound that reaches their ears?

    I'm not suggesting I'm right or you are wrong, but just putting the logical justification of the benefits of a modern active speaker system. Many of us have already moved from preamp and monos to an integrated and many choose integrateds with DAC buit in. The fully-fledged active speaker system is en extension of this trend, but with the benefit that speaker drivers can be driven by their own, specifically-designed amps without capacitors and coils in a passive crossover muddying the sound.

    I hope you agree this is a worthwhile general discussion, whatever your own views may be.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  33. #33
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Well, as Mr Peabody said above, this thread is just going around in circles at this point, and I have no vested interest in active loudspeakers, no matter who makes them or how good they sound. It's just not my thing and never will be. I know I can do better going the traditional route.

    This thread would be in the same lines as me arguing with people about electric vehicles. I have zero vested interest in EV's as well. Again, they're not my thing, nor will they ever be. And likewise, I can do better with traditional internal combustion engines. Even with my 22 year old gas-drinking 4.3L V8, I can manage better than 420 miles to a tank on long trips. Five minutes to refuel and I can do it all over again. As of right now, there's only one EV that can do better than that, and it's a Lucid Air which I've never heard of before, at 516 miles to a full charge. Oh, and it starts at $140k. No thanks.

    So with that being said, I believe I'll exit this thread.
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  34. #34
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    Fortunately the market has developed in such a way that brands don't need to start from scratch if looking for streamer, DAC, amp or DSP to include in their fully active speakers.
    Equally fortunate is there are brands that would not include any of that streaming, Roon, etc, etc. in active speakers, that can do what no passive speaker extant can.
    As always, different strokes for different folks. Some will always want the audiophile shrine of worship acoustically interfering, others wont.

    cheers,

    AJ

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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    I’m using the Dutch & Dutch 8Cs. I was curious to see what active speakers can do, and while I sometimes get nostalgic and miss tinkering around with separates, cables etc. I’m now focusing more on the enjoyment of music.

    I remain satisfied with the 8Cs, to the extent I’m not spending as much time on audiophile websites and have stopped the never-ending audiophile’s seemingly constant search for the next holy grail component or next pair of “endgame” speakers.

    Hence, I agree with the OP that fully active, all-in-one systems will supplant separates and become the gold standard of high-quality, superlative sound in the not too distant future.
    Speakers: Dutch & Dutch 8C, Franco Serblin Accordo
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  36. #36
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by RDSChicago View Post
    I’m using the Dutch & Dutch 8Cs. I was curious to see what active speakers can do, and while I sometimes get nostalgic and miss tinkering around with separates, cables etc. I’m now focusing more on the enjoyment of music.

    I remain satisfied with the 8Cs, to the extent I’m not spending as much time on audiophile websites and have stopped the never-ending audiophile’s seemingly constant search for the next holy grail component or next pair of “endgame” speakers.

    Hence, I agree with the OP that fully active, all-in-one systems will supplant separates and become the gold standard of high-quality, superlative sound in the not too distant future.
    How refreshingly sensible. The endless search for upgrades in a multi-box system seems to define an "audiophile". On the other hand those such as yourself (and hopefully I'll join you soon) are less interested in the boxes needed to fill our equipment racks and more on the experience of listening to music delivered into our homes as near as possible to an original performance. Boxes vs Music! There's plenty of room for those in both camps and we can each decide on our individual attitude to this hobby.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    How refreshingly sensible. The endless search for upgrades in a multi-box system seems to define an "audiophile". On the other hand those such as yourself (and hopefully I'll join you soon) are less interested in the boxes needed to fill our equipment racks and more on the experience of listening to music delivered into our homes as near as possible to an original performance. Boxes vs Music! There's plenty of room for those in both camps and we can each decide on our individual attitude to this hobby.

    As I age, that's the direction I'm moving to as well.
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by RDSChicago View Post
    I’m now focusing more on the enjoyment of music.
    That's crazy

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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    So we will be seeing your sig updated soon?
    Quote Originally Posted by RDSChicago View Post
    I’m using the Dutch & Dutch 8Cs. I was curious to see what active speakers can do, and while I sometimes get nostalgic and miss tinkering around with separates, cables etc. I’m now focusing more on the enjoyment of music.

    I remain satisfied with the 8Cs, to the extent I’m not spending as much time on audiophile websites and have stopped the never-ending audiophile’s seemingly constant search for the next holy grail component or next pair of “endgame” speakers.

    Hence, I agree with the OP that fully active, all-in-one systems will supplant separates and become the gold standard of high-quality, superlative sound in the not too distant future.
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  40. #40
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    I have to laugh at you insinuating no one but those with powered speakers can enjoy their music. Newsflash one can enjoy the music on whatever it's played on whether multiple components or not, just because we may want to improve the sound some place in the system, or not, says nothing to how one enjoys what they hear.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
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    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  41. #41
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    To each his own in a perfect world. But...

    I'm always surprised and confused at what can only be interpreted as disparaging statements made by those who embrace the active/all in one route towards the separates people.

    Things along the line of 'endless search for upgrades', 'those who are less interested in the boxes needed to fill our equipment racks and more on the experience of listening to music', 'the audiophile shrine of worship', 'is it merely a vanity reason...that collectors of fancy box place this aspect of the hobby above the sound that reaches their ears'.

    I could go on and on from this and other similar threads. The implication being that some have way more money than sense, aren't enlightened, and are in it for some kind of ego trip and not so much for the music.

    There are all kinds of reasons that people choose one over the other and each can enjoy the music equally as well.

    Sorry for the uncharacteristic rant, but come on guys, we're better than this.
    Rance


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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    All I can say is that I have a "mediocre" shrine of worship sitting to my side and in front of me, however, I am extremely enjoying listening to "In Time: The Best Of R.E.M. 1988-2003". I can honestly say this shrine of worship is not getting in the way of my musical enjoyment at all.
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    When I replaced my 25 year old kef R105/3’s in 2015 I bet I went through 6 different pairs of speakers that retailed in the $20-30k range. I would buy used at prices I could resell with minimal damage. The problem with not committing to a specific pair is having to trust the components are a match. After buying, listening and selling a half dozen pairs I bought a pair of Meridian dsp8k se’s because I was frustrated with the challenge of component matching. I actually really enjoyed the 8k’s for the couple years I used them. I think active dsp systems offer better performance than the average music lover can cobble together, but we’re (audiophiles) more than music lover’s and I ended going back to a passive system I voiced with my own components. I don’t want to swap the meridians back in because they probably sound as good or better and I don’t want to know. I stream all my music now
    KEF Blade, Mc-611's, C49 rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner. Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller VA Beethoven's, Hegel h360.

  44. #44
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by steve59 View Post
    When I replaced my 25 year old kef R105/3’s
    I see you're back to KEF speakers now. I was very happy with my KEF Reference 107s from about 1986. Bought used and kepy for several years.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
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    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  45. #45

    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by rrwmd View Post
    To each his own in a perfect world. But...

    I'm always surprised and confused at what can only be interpreted as disparaging statements made by those who embrace the active/all in one route towards the separates people.

    Things along the line of 'endless search for upgrades', 'those who are less interested in the boxes needed to fill our equipment racks and more on the experience of listening to music', 'the audiophile shrine of worship', 'is it merely a vanity reason...that collectors of fancy box place this aspect of the hobby above the sound that reaches their ears'.

    I could go on and on from this and other similar threads. The implication being that some have way more money than sense, aren't enlightened, and are in it for some kind of ego trip and not so much for the music.

    There are all kinds of reasons that people choose one over the other and each can enjoy the music equally as well.

    Sorry for the uncharacteristic rant, but come on guys, we're better than this.
    You should never be surprised at the things people say on audio forums.
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  46. #46
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Active loudspeakers been around for decades , doubt it will ever replace separates as the only game ..!


    Regards
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his latest Class D incarnation *

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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Active loudspeakers been around for decades , doubt it will ever replace separates as the only game ..!


    Regards
    Yes, but those actives of decades past (ATC, etc) are nothing more than an electronic XO feeding the signals to amps for each driver individually. Nothing special there and mainly favoured by studios and places where long speaker cable lengths would be inappropriate.

    Modern actives are a different kettle of fish altogether. They usually include a streamer, DAC, then electronic XO, room correction DSP, then lastly amps connected directly to drivers. For digital-only users, these active speakers need no pile of equipment boxes - just power and perhaps Ethernet cables. Simple

    So, a bit like buying a motor car - the brand creates a body, adds an appropriate engine and internal fittings, etc - all it needs is a driver and fuel. Simple.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified

  48. #48
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Active Speakers with DSP been around since the 80’s , Stereophile audio show in 94 , next door to us was a company demoing active with DSP controller, digital signal , its not new. The same limitation then is as now, most audiophiles like to choose their equipment, see it , clean it and upgrade with doo dahs , not an option in a fully active system ..!

    Regards
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his latest Class D incarnation *

  49. #49
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    and then there is even active speakers that are built out of seperates so you can still choose the amps you like.
    and, a lot of all-in-one are NOT active.

    passive speakers generally provide MORE control over the driver and are easier to balance for the manufactor. may be not logic right away.

    just as a.wayne has said, it is and old story. active and integrated systems are smaller and have a better sound-price-relation.
    at the top end you want seperates with theyr own ground and vibration control etc.

    i think noone should be ashame buying seperates or all-in-one, they all make music and fun.
    going seperates might be an endless journey....more potential=more risk

  50. #50
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    Re: We Are Living in the Golden Age of Affordable High-End Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    The same limitation then is as now, most audiophiles
    True, nothing to do with actives. Sound always takes a back seat to habits.

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    upgrade with doo dahs , not an option in a fully active system ..!
    Demonstrably incorrect. Actives offer infinitely more upgradability than passives. One of the first things I asked Hypex when I chose them is whether their future products would maintain the exact same footprint - they will.
    Bottom line, if any recliner engineer wants to put their cobbled system up against a pair of my actives, I'm game. Usual caveats - will be on Youtube for world to see/share the humor ;-).
    Otherwise, just stick with, it's what X prefers, sound be damned. Nothing wrong with that at all.
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