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April 14, 2021, 09:42 PM #1
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Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Have you guys tried to play very loud music (say rock at 100-105db) when your turntable is in the same room as your speakers?
At normal listening levels I do not hear or notice any induced vibration. But at those levels I do.
Many years ago, I used to have my TT in an adjacent room and never experienced such a thing.
It makes me wonder if having a TT in the same room as the speakers is a compromise. Even if one is using some kind of isolation, I’m thinking that you can’t stop the sound wave from hitting the turntable directly bypassing the isolation system. Thoughts?
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April 14, 2021, 11:05 PM #2
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
You could encase your turntable in an acoustically sealed box.
Neko Audio
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April 14, 2021, 11:12 PM #3
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Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Is there such a thing? Is that something that is practical or is it something similar to a safe (meaning impractical)?
The more I think about it, anyone who has their turntable in the same room with their speakers (and I think most folks do) would be affected by this issue.
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April 15, 2021, 09:36 AM #4
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 15, 2021, 10:15 AM #5
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April 15, 2021, 10:23 AM #6
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 15, 2021, 10:45 AM #7
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April 15, 2021, 10:50 AM #8
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 15, 2021, 11:03 AM #9
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
99.9% of the time I listen at modest levels. I will use my digital if I ever want to crack some old time rock and roll/metal. However I believe my Maggie's are not really adept at this anyway , although they do surprise me sometimes, especially with the Rythmik subs....
However, if I am really in the mood to rock out I will almost always use my headphones anyways ... vibration is not an issues there and the Abyss really really rock, especially with the Moon headphone amp!McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
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April 15, 2021, 11:43 AM #10
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April 15, 2021, 11:43 AM #11
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
where is your TT located in the room with respect to L/R speakers and corners of room ?
Cheers ! …. Dave
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April 15, 2021, 12:04 PM #12
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April 15, 2021, 12:26 PM #13
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
are the corners of your room 'bass trapped' ?
Cheers ! …. Dave
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April 15, 2021, 01:15 PM #14
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Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
No bass traps. Two Subs have been properly positioned in the room to avoid any bass issues.
However, in an enclosed room, if I am playing rock music very loud, I will definitely feel the bass (two subs in the room for music) at the listening position (as it should be).
That sound wave is also hitting the turntable which is what I am referring to. I do not have an isolation platform under the TT but since the sound wave is hitting the TT directly, I am not so sure how effective it would be.
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April 15, 2021, 02:36 PM #15
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Understood, the fact that you are 'feeling' the bass is no doubt the issue with your vinyl rig. I suspect isolation (out of the room) might be the only real answer for loud playback
Cheers ! …. Dave
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April 15, 2021, 02:38 PM #16
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
I've never seen it done, but it should be practical. Something similar to a projector hushbox but with more significant acoustic absorption and no gaps when the door/lid is closed. Pre-made, you could maybe go with a home recording booth for a few thousand dollars, most of which would be large enough to accommodate your entire turntable setup. Maybe add a bit more absorption for the mid-bass and bass frequencies if needed. The cables could thread through a hole that is airtight.
I suppose you could go even more extreme and add a vacuum pump system to remove any air inside during playback, and then to let air back in when you need to open it. Some sound isolation units are already designed to connect ductwork to them.
The most I know of someone doing is cutting a hole into their floor in order to mount their turntable on a pole going straight into the ground, completely decoupling it from their house.Neko Audio
Authorized Dealer: AC Infinity, APC, Audeze, Bryston, Devialet, Elite HTS, Fortress Seating, JMF Audio, JVC, Kaleidescape, LG, LUMIN, Magico, Ortofon, RME, Samsung, Soulution, STAX, Trinnov, Vivid Audio, Weiss & more.
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April 15, 2021, 02:42 PM #17
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
4 blocks of Sorbothane on top of a 1-1/4" thick slab of granite seems to work for me. One speaker is inches from the TT.
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Brian
Main System - Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables
Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables
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April 15, 2021, 03:00 PM #18
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April 15, 2021, 03:03 PM #19
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
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Brian
Main System - Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables
Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables
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April 15, 2021, 03:08 PM #20
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
When I had my Nottingham turntable, I bought a wall mount that I screwed into wall studs. Had to use a good size lag to hold the weight but it fixed the vibration problem.
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April 15, 2021, 03:14 PM #21
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
This is exactly what I have done in multiple rooms. Wall mounting, particularly if you can get a load bearing wall, solves most macro-vibrational issues like footfall concerns and gross distortions. Beyond that, it is trial and error to find the best solution for your particular situation.
Morgan
NEW SYSTEM UNDER CONSTRUCTION
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April 15, 2021, 03:23 PM #22
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 15, 2021, 03:29 PM #23
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Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
I don’t have vibration issues such as vibration due to footsteps. Again, I only experienced the vibration when I played the music very very loud. I very rarely listen to music at that volume and when I do, it is only for one song or two max.
What I was asking if any of you have experienced something similar when playing rock music at that high volume (100-105db)
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April 15, 2021, 03:48 PM #24
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
I definitely have. Permanently solved by wall mounting. Deep bass tracks played loudly would literally cause the stylus to jump out of the groove (and this was with isolation under the table). Wall mounting on a load bearing wall was the only solution I found that worked. I could then play music as loud as I wanted and could jump up and down in front of the turntable with no issues at all. I have replicated this in my current room on a non-load bearing wall and it seems to be working equally well.
Morgan
NEW SYSTEM UNDER CONSTRUCTION
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April 15, 2021, 06:11 PM #25
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Bud
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
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Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
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April 15, 2021, 07:41 PM #26
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April 15, 2021, 11:47 PM #27
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April 15, 2021, 11:51 PM #28
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
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April 15, 2021, 11:55 PM #29
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April 16, 2021, 12:01 AM #30
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April 16, 2021, 02:28 PM #31
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
I’ve got a high moving mass (22 kg) Nottingham Dais and can play plenty loud without issue. My table is not near any room boundaries and 6’ away from the nearest speaker.
Tom
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Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
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MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.
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Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
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McIntosh MAC 4300v
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April 16, 2021, 04:54 PM #32
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Neko Audio
Authorized Dealer: AC Infinity, APC, Audeze, Bryston, Devialet, Elite HTS, Fortress Seating, JMF Audio, JVC, Kaleidescape, LG, LUMIN, Magico, Ortofon, RME, Samsung, Soulution, STAX, Trinnov, Vivid Audio, Weiss & more.
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April 16, 2021, 05:10 PM #33
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Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
my system is in my family room and has a suspended joist floor. i put 3 jack posts in my basement that is below my family room. one under my turntable stand and one under each speaker at the closes joist. this worked great, i have a Linn LP 12 which is know for foot fall issues and i have no problems of any sort at all. john
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April 16, 2021, 10:35 PM #34
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Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
I once had my TT suspended from a wall but never played it that loud since I was living in an apartment.
I also once had my TT in another room separate from the speakers and I played my LPs very loud without issues..
But now have my turntable and my speakers in the same room and I cannot play rock music at 100-105db without experiencing vibrations from the TT.
There are free apps that you can download on your phone that let you measure the actual db level in your room.
Any one of you with a TT can check out their experience and report back.
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April 17, 2021, 08:23 PM #35
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Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Many moons ago I had my TT on a shelf that was screwed into the wall studs, it was not a load bearing wall. When I turned up the volume it was horrible. I wound up making a square shelf to put the table on, mounted 4 eye hooks in the ceiling (into the joists) and hung the shelf and table on 4 springs and chain I got at home depot. It worked like a charm. Good luck.
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April 17, 2021, 09:31 PM #36
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Hi Nico,
I'm trying to follow the progression of this thread after becoming aware of its existence from a friend. Are you interested in possible solutions or are you just wanting someone to report back on their findings listening at 100-105dB (peaks?) or both?
If you are looking for possible solutions, can you provide a bit more information? Here are a few practical question I'd ask:
- For a practical application test scenario, can you list a couple of rock LPs (hopefully something I have in my archive) and track titles where you have experienced this issue so I can attempt to duplicate?
- Can you explain the type vibrations you are talking about (This would be something like: a type of feedback that overloads the system and creates severe distortion or something else explained in a similar manor.)
- Can you share the condition (or scenario) of one or more of your LPs where, within the music's performance, this occurs. (for example: 2:34 into LP xx track title xx, the vibrational feedback occurs, etc.)
- If you listen to the same music at the same level setting on your preamp and you turn your subwoofers off, do you still get the same condition? (I'm not suggesting you stop using your sub. It's just a test case that could help provide additional information to help with identifying the effect under a different condition.)
- Are you on a concrete or suspended floor?
- What type of support (equipment rack, platforms, feet, etc.) do you have for your turntable?
- Does your phonostage contain vacuum tubes?
If you'd like to, or prefer to, discuss this offline, we can arrange that. We have a mutual friend that once lived in R. Va. when we first met many years ago. If your contact info hasn't changed, it is available to me. If it has changed, you can contact AC and ask him to send you my contact info.
Dre
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April 17, 2021, 09:53 PM #37
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Hi Dre, are you still using the Minus-K under your Basis 'table?
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April 17, 2021, 10:00 PM #38
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April 17, 2021, 10:13 PM #39
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Per your advice and that of others, I broke down and acquired a BM-8 for my Simon Yorke S10. I really had no choice since the Yorke is suspension-less and high mass. Im renting a house for now and the system resides on the 2nd level, footfalls were making vinyl replay well nigh impossible. I have a second SYD table on a wall shelf and its fairly immune from feedback and an interesting contrast, comparing two near-identical 'tables with different isolation solutions. I'll save you from speculating, the Minus-K was worth every cent and I got the nickel tour of the factory to boot.
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April 18, 2021, 11:47 AM #40
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Rob,
I'm happy to read that the suggestions from myself and others about looking into the Minus K platform was helpful. That's an excellent outcome for you and one couldn't ask for more. Thanks for sharing your situation. For those type of specific applications, the Minus K is highly effective at accomplishing the desired results, in my experience.
Dre
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April 18, 2021, 12:11 PM #41
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 18, 2021, 01:27 PM #42
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April 18, 2021, 01:48 PM #43
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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April 18, 2021, 01:58 PM #44
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April 18, 2021, 03:29 PM #45
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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April 18, 2021, 08:40 PM #46
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April 18, 2021, 09:05 PM #47
Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
By my reckoning, 'Dre has forgotten more about TT set-up than most of us can recall. Which is to say, when Dre speaks, you listen (he's also a gentleman to the T). I don't have that kind of patience, I'm not quite as fastidious as MEP but im also onto BS pretty quick...
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April 21, 2021, 01:40 AM #48
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Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
Photo of the current set up (or did I miss that)?
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April 24, 2021, 10:18 PM #49
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Re: Thoughts on Turntables and Vibration
A big thank you to Dre_J for helping me finding a solution to the issue. The source of the problem was rumble coming from the TT. The low frequency noise produced by the TT was retro-fed to the TT and was being amplified when playing at very high-volume levels.
As Dre_J pointed out, this is an issue that is fairly common in set ups installed in rooms with wooden joists. Under normal volume conditions, this is typically not an issue. However, at very high volumes, the vibration can move through the floor joists and up the rack and into the turntable creating feedback.
After experimenting with different scenarios such as subs on/off, relocation of vibration dampers, loosening and/or tightening nuts holding the wood plank where the TT sits on, the issue was finally solved. As Dre_J put it, it came down to a combination of energy damping, absorption, and redistribution of the vibration away from the TT platform. Mind you, the rumble generated by the TT is inherent to the turntable and cannot go away. However, the vibration that it generates was managed in a way that it is now not an issue even at high-volume levels.
Big kudos to Dre_J!! Thank you!!
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April 26, 2021, 07:49 AM #50
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
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Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
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