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  1. #201
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    Looks like I triggered a turkey snowflake meltdown
    Attachment 31801
    Holy crap!!!

    That is so not cool you received that.

    Well, I still stand my legit and real wishing you of a Happy Thanksgiving.
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  2. #202
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post
    At least I don’t equate the danger of guns to class A amps. It’s simply common sense.
    Let me try to explain this one last time so a brick wall can understand the concept. It has nothing to do with guns.

    Dictator decides you can no longer buy or sell X.

    X can be ICE engines
    X can be gas lawnmowers
    X can be Guns
    X can be any electrical device they deem uses too much electricity

    Is that clear enough?
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  3. #203

    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    Let me try to explain this one last time so a brick wall can understand the concept. It has nothing to do with guns.

    Dictator decides you can no longer buy or sell X.

    X can be ICE engines
    X can be gas lawnmowers
    X can be Guns
    X can be any electrical device they deem uses too much electricity

    Is that clear enough?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    Canada just did this with Guns. You can't buy New and you can't buy Used and you can't sell your own used. It won't stop there or with that one item.
    You’re the one who brought guns into this and started all this. In fact, you’re the one who always consistently bring politically charged comments into many threads on this very forum. If you wanna talk politics, go somewhere else other than audio forums.

    For the 3rd time, it’s only common sense man.

    Note: I own guns. I have three V6’s and don’t own an EV. And my amp is class A up to 12 watts.

  4. #204
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Hahaha

    Listen Trudeau is a full blown idiot , but a dictator he is not. You clearly know nothing about our political system…. And I suppose you shouldn’t in all fairness

    I have no idea what ridiculous “media” your reading but I have to say some of your chatter is the wrong side of the crazy matrix.

    Seriously , your narrative is very odd indeed

    Edit… my comment was meant for “Shadowfax”….. ( I suppose his name says it all)
    Last edited by ADCO; November 24, 2022 at 09:36 PM. Reason: Clarity

  5. #205
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADCO View Post
    Hahaha

    Listen Trudeau is a full blown idiot , but a dictator he is not. You clearly know nothing about our political system…. And I suppose you shouldn’t in all fairness

    I have no idea what ridiculous “media” your reading but I have to say some of your chatter is the wrong side of the crazy matrix.

    Seriously , your narrative is very odd indeed

    Edit… my comment was meant for “Shadowfax”….. ( I suppose his name says it all)
    Awe, you hurt Shadowfax's feelings. Gandalf may have to put a spell on you.

    Seriously, do you honestly think that a border between Canada and the US prevents friendships and information sharing?

    And as far as the Matrix goes, we shall see

    Cheers!
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  6. #206
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post
    You’re the one who brought guns into this and started all this. In fact, you’re the one who always consistently bring politically charged comments into many threads on this very forum. If you wanna talk politics, go somewhere else other than audio forums.

    For the 3rd time, it’s only common sense man.

    Note: I own guns. I have three V6’s and don’t own an EV. And my amp is class A up to 12 watts.
    Guns, Lawnmowers, and ICE Cars were all EXAMPLES of someone telling others that you cannot buy or sell something. All your "Common Sense" should have clued you in. Again for the last time Guns have nothing to do with audio, but where does telling someone they can or cannot buy something of their choice stop? I already gave 3 Real World current event examples. The OP asked if it was possible that something similar could kill Class A Audio Gear. Luxman hinted to Yes.

    And you win once again, I only have 1 V6 and my amp only does Class A up to 5 or 6 watts.

    OK, back to our regularly scheduled program.
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  7. #207
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Wow !!!!! talk about a 'Turkey hangover'
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  8. #208
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    Wow !!!!! talk about a 'Turkey hangover'
    We had a nice meal at a local church with my 94 year old mother. Hope you and everyone else that celebrates had a nice day and meal yesterday.
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  9. #209

    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    Guns, Lawnmowers, and ICE Cars were all EXAMPLES of someone telling others that you cannot buy or sell something. All your "Common Sense" should have clued you in. Again for the last time Guns have nothing to do with audio, but where does telling someone they can or cannot buy something of their choice stop? I already gave 3 Real World current event examples. The OP asked if it was possible that something similar could kill Class A Audio Gear. Luxman hinted to Yes.

    And you win once again, I only have 1 V6 and my amp only does Class A up to 5 or 6 watts.

    OK, back to our regularly scheduled program.
    For the last time, guns isn’t a remotely good example for this case, for its obvious lethal and destructive nature that class A amps just aren’t.
    Don’t always bring in these to ruin threads.

    In this forum, only you could think of equating guns ban to any other environmental regulations and talk as if you’re “educated and well informed”, and the rest of us need to be aware of some strategic scheme by the government or “dictator” (which later you retracted to “someone”).

    Seriously, lose some of the stuff you read on the internet. They need common sense to distinguish what’s real and what’s not.

  10. #210
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    We had a nice meal at a local church with my 94 year old mother. Hope you and everyone else that celebrates had a nice day and meal yesterday.

    It was superb, my niece made a superb apple and pumpkin pie plus the Bills won another game in Detroit, albeit with the losing of Von Miller for who knows how long ???
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  11. #211
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    It was superb, my niece made a superb apple and pumpkin pie plus the Bills won another game in Detroit, albeit with the losing of Von Miller for who knows how long ???

    All I know when when we left my sisters, I had to change a belt connective hole
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  12. #212
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    All I know when when we left my sisters, I had to change a belt connective hole
    Chris, was that on your trousers or the cars seat belt, or perhaps both ??
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  13. #213
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    Chris, was that on your trousers or the cars seat belt, or perhaps both ??
    Well the pants belt was a must, and the seat belt in the car, well its AUTOMATIC so its found the correct spot.
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  14. #214
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post
    For the last time, guns isn’t a remotely good example for this case, for its obvious lethal and destructive nature that class A amps just aren’t.
    Don’t always bring in these to ruin threads.

    In this forum, only you could think of equating guns ban to any other environmental regulations and talk as if you’re “educated and well informed”, and the rest of us need to be aware of some strategic scheme by the government or “dictator” (which later you retracted to “someone”).

    Seriously, lose some of the stuff you read on the internet. They need common sense to distinguish what’s real and what’s not.
    Wow, you are still stuck on the Gun example. And if you go back to post #156, you will see it was a perfect example to a statement made by someone from Canada. It was also the first example that came to mind. Had I remembered Lawnmowers and ICE Engines I may have used those first.

    Now again you misread my last post also. I never back tracked anything. When I used the word "Someone" it meant you, me, the people.

    So just forget about the Gun example, I can answer ADCO's original claim now with just Lawnmowers and Cars. So please focus on these two examples and tell me that certain people or groups of people are not telling "Someone" what they can and cannot buy or sell.
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  15. #215

    Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    Wow, you are still stuck on the Gun example. And if you go back to post #156, you will see it was a perfect example to a statement made by someone from Canada. It was also the first example that came to mind. Had I remembered Lawnmowers and ICE Engines I may have used those first.

    Now again you misread my last post also. I never back tracked anything. When I used the word "Someone" it meant you, me, the people.

    So just forget about the Gun example, I can answer ADCO's original claim now with just Lawnmowers and Cars. So please focus on these two examples and tell me that certain people or groups of people are not telling "Someone" what they can and cannot buy or sell.
    Can’t “forget about the gun example” because the train wreck started when you brought it in to compare with class A amps. That is the sole reason I started to participate because common sense is under attack. Unless you issue apology for bringing in guns, this is still my main issue in this entire fiasco. Atmasphere has also pushed back this nonsense in post #160 much more eloquently than I.

    You can continue to bs all you want, the reason guns are banned will never be the same reason for class A amps even if they do get banned for whatever minuscule chance it has.

  16. #216
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    Wow, you are still stuck on the Gun example. And if you go back to post #156, you will see it was a perfect example to a statement made by someone from Canada. It was also the first example that came to mind. Had I remembered Lawnmowers and ICE Engines I may have used those first.

    Now again you misread my last post also. I never back tracked anything. When I used the word "Someone" it meant you, me, the people.

    So just forget about the Gun example, I can answer ADCO's original claim now with just Lawnmowers and Cars. So please focus on these two examples and tell me that certain people or groups of people are not telling "Someone" what they can and cannot buy or sell.
    How exactly does Lawn mowers and ICE engines answer anything …. Because you say so?

    You just better hope they don’t ban aluminum foil or you won’t be able to make your hats anymore

  17. #217
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Tl;dr way too much acrimony stubbornness and judgement in here.

    Came to ask the only important question: when Class A amps are outlawed, will I have to elude the Eyes on Sundays and go far outside the wire to my uncle’s country place that no-one knows about, just to listen to one? Red Ampchetta.
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  18. #218
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    Wow !!!!! talk about a 'Turkey hangover'
    I had hoped this Dumpster Fire of a thread would have burned out over the Holiday, but......................
    Jim

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  19. #219
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    I had hoped this Dumpster Fire of a thread would have burned out over the Holiday, but......................
    yeah, as an old retired railroader I've seen my share of 'derailments' ..........
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  20. #220
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    When class A amps are outlawed, only outlaws will have class A amps.

    The reason to use class A (and take it from someone that has made class A amps for 50 years...) is to improve linearity since you can't apply the feedback to do it any other way. Put another way, when the amp is designed class A, its tacit admission on the part of the designer that the amp has insufficient feedback. I know this because its precisely why our class A amps are class A. Tubes don't allow you to apply the feedback that is really required to allow it to do its job properly.

    This is true of 99% of solid state amps ever made too. So class A is a method used by solid state designers as well to improve linearity since feedback simply can't be applied to do the job instead.

    However, advances in semiconductors in the last 25 years have allowed for amplifiers that do have greater amounts of feedback. And so these amps no longer need class A operation to have the same linearity.

    The only bit that is missing is that even designers fail to realize that the distortion of the amplifier is also its 'sonic signature' as so the distortion present, however small, must be as innocuous as possible. So some amps that are low distortion really aren't that musical as a result. But some are!

    The issue here isn't environmental, although that certainly is a concern to those that like to spend time outside enjoying what the natural world has to offer. The real issue is about technology advancing. It has a way of doing that BTW, which is why side valves aren't used in cars anymore and why modern cars with computers and not only more efficient, but more powerful too, often with less displacement (my Ford Expedition has 3x the horsepower of my old Bronco and gets better mileage too...). The same thing is happening before our eyes with amplification.

    Because of that, class A amplifiers will go away and it won't be because of government regulation! Now y'all know I'm a manufacturer... the biggest single complaint we get is 'the heat of all those tubes'. People like amps that run nice and cool, and yes they want it to sound right too. They want to be able to hear it over their air conditioning though! This factor is affecting all manufacturers of class A amplifiers.

    Right now its a pretty free market in the world of high end amplifiers. Its the market that is slowly choking out class A amps, not anything else. You might make up a lot of stories about how dictators are causing class A to go away but when it comes down to it the simple fact is people don't like the heat (and the power draw). For a long time there was nothing for it; if you wanted the best sound you were going to have heat too. But that's changed a lot in the last 25 years (better semiconductors now) and manufacturers are well aware of this fact. So class A is going away because manufacturers know they can sell more product if it doesn't run as hot.

  21. #221
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Ralph,

    You make good points but forgot a couple. In addition to heat and power draw, many, including myself, do not want or cannot deal with the size and weight of many of the Class A amps. Heavy electronics never make it onto my "possibles" list.
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  22. #222
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    I think some aspect of audio consumers expect a big heavy amp and equate that to quality. There is newer designs and it itsn't just Class D. For example, I have a Coda CSX amplifier that weighs about 60 lbs. 400x2 into 8 ohms and Class A up to about 20 watts, it barely gets warm to the touch and I can play my system loud, this amp has never been stressed, it's just a very well designed A/B without a lot of unnecessary metal. To contrast I had a Pass X250 that weighed 100 lbs, 250x2 Class A up to I think at least 10 watts, memory fails me, but it put out a good deal of heat, not hot to the touch but the heat dissipated into the room, definitely hotter than the Coda. Not saying the Pass is a bad design but you can find other options than Class D in something you can lift and remain cool.

    I personally feel that as long as someone is willing to buy a design it will continue to be offered. There will always be a market for big bad ass amps.
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  23. #223
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    I am from Europe and right now we are heaving this "energy crisis".
    The winter is stepping in and I hope everything will end up OK.
    I love my SET tubes and thay are going to keep me warm.

    When politicians talk about carbon footprints thay say we, but what thay really mean I you.
    Nobody is getting rid of their Lear jets....

  24. #224
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    > Nobody is getting rid of their Lear jets....

    Mine's gone - don't say you still have yours!
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  25. #225
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    > Nobody is getting rid of their Lear jets....

    Mine's gone - don't say you still have yours!
    Hahahahahaa

    You got me thinking.......
    It seems I have always been eco-friendly, taking public transport, etc...

  26. #226
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqy88 View Post
    I am from Europe and right now we are heaving this "energy crisis".
    The winter is stepping in and I hope everything will end up OK.
    I love my SET tubes and thay are going to keep me warm.

    When politicians talk about carbon footprints thay say we, but what thay really mean I you.
    Nobody is getting rid of their Lear jets....
    We have the same problem here with John Kerry our Climate Putz and all the movie stars who like to lecture us "normal people" about climate change as they fly daily on their private jets and drive their giant SUV's with their 'posse'. Seems Markle and Harry have been caught in the same hypocrisy repeatedly as well.
    .
    It's pretty simple - just practice what you preach.
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  27. #227
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    > Nobody is getting rid of their Lear jets....

    Mine's gone - don't say you still have yours!
    Not the jet, keep the yacht
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  28. #228
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    Not the jet, keep the yacht
    Hahahahahaa

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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute View Post
    We have the same problem here with John Kerry our Climate Putz and all the movie stars who like to lecture us "normal people" about climate change as they fly daily on their private jets and drive their giant SUV's with their 'posse'. Seems Markle and Harry have been caught in the same hypocrisy repeatedly as well.
    .
    It's pretty simple - just practice what you preach.
    Good job turning this dumpster fire into a sh*t show!
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  30. #230
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    So I did a little Poll over at Agon just to gauge the feel elsewhere. I asked the following 3 questions.

    Have you done away with your Class A Amp due to Heat concerns?
    Will you be moving away from Class A Amp due to Heat concerns?
    Will you never buy a Class A Amp due to Heat concerns?

    The answers did not come directly to each question because you can't really run a poll there with selections to choose. Anyway, the results were interesting. Out of the responders to date, here are the results.

    Pro Class A with no concerns - 25
    Con Class A with concerns - 5
    Neutral or have both - 8

    Some comments were interesting and some got political for the same reasons as here. Other comments were about Class D being still in it's developmental stages and not really ready to take the lead. A few comments stated that there are not enough Class A owners to matter environmentally.
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  31. #231
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    Good job turning this dumpster fire into a sh*t show!
    Your what hurts???
    "We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff

  32. #232
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    A few comments stated that there are not enough Class A owners to matter environmentally.
    This is also why you can be assured that they won't be a target by any government ever.

    The reason class A is going away is simply that technology has advanced enough that the technique has become insignificant to controlling distortion and how the distortion spectra is generated- with the exception of zero or low feedback designs. Put another way its not the sonic advantage that is was only a decade or two ago.

  33. #233
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Several of the responders also said they tried Class D or G and went back because they did not care for the sound quality.
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  34. #234
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    Several of the responders also said they tried Class D or G and went back because they did not care for the sound quality.
    Of course!

    Some class D amps really suck! Are you saying that all amplifiers of a certain class of operation sound the same? I doubt that FWIW, but stranger things certainly happen.

    My advice is don't listen to the bad ones. Listen to the good ones. I know some class A amps I wouldn't let into my house on account of sound quality. How is that any different??

  35. #235

    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    I recently got a purifi based Audiophonics Class D from around 1100 bucks shipped from France. It easily blows away my tubed MC75 monoblocks. But perhaps the MC75s were just not
    a good match for the Sonusfabers. Now I am looking for a speaker that is very efficient yet small enough for my 10X12 room.
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  36. #236

    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by petek View Post
    I recently got a purifi based Audiophonics Class D from around 1100 bucks shipped from France. It easily blows away my tubed MC75 monoblocks. But perhaps the MC75s were just not
    a good match for the Sonusfabers. Now I am looking for a speaker that is very efficient yet small enough for my 10X12 room.
    Was it the Apollon Purifi 1ET400A Monoblock Amplifier?
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  37. #237

    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Was it the Apollon Purifi 1ET400A Monoblock Amplifier?
    THis one:
    AUDIOPHONICS LPA-S400ET Class D Stereo Amplifier Purifi 2x400W 4 Ohm
    McInotsh MC75 (2) amps
    McIntosh C2500 pre
    Luxman 505Ux integrated to drive "B" Speakers
    EAT C Sharp with Ortofon Cadenza Blue
    TEAC SD1000/Yamaha SACD Blu Ray player
    Sonus Faber Olympica I
    dual Rythmik sealed subs
    AKG and Sennheiser phones
    Vintage Pioneer table and Kenwood 3 head tape deck
    Nitty Gritty RCM
    McIntosh, AQ, Nordost, and Cullen Cables
    Mytek Brooklyn DAC+/Sonare Ultra Rendu, SGC I transporter 5
    Tidal and Roon

  38. #238
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by atmasphere View Post
    Of course!

    Some class D amps really suck! Are you saying that all amplifiers of a certain class of operation sound the same? I doubt that FWIW, but stranger things certainly happen.

    My advice is don't listen to the bad ones. Listen to the good ones. I know some class A amps I wouldn't let into my house on account of sound quality. How is that any different??
    I am in the camp of every amp sounds different.

    My whole point was in response to your statement - "Its the market that is slowly choking out class A amps, not anything else. "

    My poll at AG showed that the market for Class A still seems as strong as it ever was and it's now 5 pages long with only a small handful talking about Class D.
    -----------------
    Brian

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  39. #239
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute View Post
    We have the same problem here with John Kerry our Climate Putz and all the movie stars who like to lecture us "normal people" about climate change as they fly daily on their private jets and drive their giant SUV's with their 'posse'. Seems Markle and Harry have been caught in the same hypocrisy repeatedly as well.
    .
    It's pretty simple - just practice what you preach.
    Another moronic example of this guy turning an audio conversation into a political rant.
    MAIN SYSTEM - SST Ambrosia 2000 Second Edition Preamp and SST Son of Ampzilla II Amp, PS Audio Directstream DAC w/Bridge II, PS Audio Directstream Memory Player, PS Audio P3 Power Plant, Focal Sopra No. 1 Speakers, JL Audio F112 Subwoofer, Roon Nucleus w/8TB SSD storage

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  40. #240

    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Projectman View Post
    Another moronic example of this guy turning an audio conversation into a political rant.
    That's why politics don't belong on audio forums.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  41. #241
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Agreed. NO POLITICS!!!


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  42. #242
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    In the USA, so far they are looking at electrical usage by mandating high efficiency heat pumps and hyper sealed living structures. Which as expected is resulting in a lot of illness and disease from a lack of clean air. They seem to be in the process of using remote monitored electrical meters as a measure of how much power you are using at any moment in time. That information is then used to experiment with some willing customers to shut down your heating and cooling in peak demand periods. That of course is the ultimate end goal. Monitor and measure out how many watts they will allow you. That as well as control over your high use devices such as heating/cooling/car charging.

    I don't think they will look at your stereo in our life. I am seeing them looking at the overall electrical usage and shutting off the tap if your outside what they legislate you can have. If you want more, your going to need the money to purchase solar and or wind and a storage device. Currently you have the opportunity to pay over usage taxes in graduated pricing programs. I do believe the desire to absolutely control everything in your life will lead them to your stereo. They already got to your TV. No more Plasma. But the stereo marked is small and under the radar for now.

    I hope that all is not too political. I think its the true direction governments are going when it comes to allocating power.
    First Sound Mark3SI preamp. Audion Black Shadow 845 SET Monoblocks. Mojo Audio Deja Vu Server. Mojo Audio Mystic 3 DAC. Linear Solution Ethernet Switch. Gigafoil with LPS. STST Motus II TT with Vertere SG1 arm, Hana ML Cartridge, Allnic H1201 phono pre. Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Horn speakers with Mundord Supreme oil caps. Power via 10 awg Oyaide cable from panel to custom distribution strip feeding front end. Oyaide dedicated10 AWG branch circuits from panel to each amp. Inakustik speaker and interconnect cables, Genesis Interconnect.
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  43. #243
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    No politics.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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  44. #244
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfax View Post
    I am in the camp of every amp sounds different.

    My whole point was in response to your statement - "Its the market that is slowly choking out class A amps, not anything else. "

    My poll at AG showed that the market for Class A still seems as strong as it ever was and it's now 5 pages long with only a small handful talking about Class D.
    Yes. You may have noticed that I was one of those whose choice of amplifier use was not based on its class of operation (so I added my response accordingly). Its based on sound quality. I've been making class A amps for nearly 50 years and the class D amp I'm running at home sounds better. I don't miss the class A amps at all.

    At any rate I'm not wrong about class D edging out class A. As more and more manufacturers figure out how to get class D amps to sound right, there simply will be less and less reason to own a class A amplifier. One of the reasons people like to say how class A is better has to do with something called 'crossover distortion'. FWIW, if a class D amp uses output filter chokes (and all of them meant for home audio do) then they are incapable of this type of distortion.

  45. #245
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    interesting read

  46. #246
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    My post might seem political, but its hard to talk about a utility that is generally a monopoly in a region, and that monopoly is directed on how it operates by government bodies. Its very political in how governing bodies control what you can connect to your utility power. I know from my work as an electrician, government bodies and their regulating agencies work with manufacturers to obsolete technology and bring in new. At times these bodies step outside the generally accepted policy and make radical decision such as the following.

    This is the title on a newspaper cover.
    The Washington State Building Code Council, an unelected board that governs construction standards, on Nov. 4 decided to effectively ban natural gas heating in new construction homes and office buildings.

    They have the power to come after anything they want. If they want to come after your class A amplifier, they can. It is only my opinion that they have bigger issues to deal with such as heating/cooling/lighting/ranges/dryers/electric cars. Those are the major energy loads in a home. They already in most of the US mandated no incandescent lights. This is the top headline in google search.

    This week, the Department of Energy announced new rules to phase incandescent light bulbs out of production and sale in the United States before a ban takes effect in 2023.

    In 2023 they will also outlaw fluorescent lights in WA state. You can only get LED lights. This is already in place in other states.

    So yes, it is a very political topic to muse over "when" they will pay attention to audio equipment. But it is a real event. We are lucky to have people such as Ralph pushing ahead of the curve and developing alternatives sooner than later. It is very possible a company such as Denon could be in talks with someone in the Calif building code who is designing new legislation to say, all home theatre and associated audio amplifier equipment must conform to state code blablabla. And when you go to that code, it says all amplification modules must be ICE technology. My friend from Schneider Electric does just this. He gets specifications set on large works that favor the technology they make to cut other competitors out of the market. It is all too real how quick it can all come down. It could become a very real concern very quickly.

    Just think what would happen if some journalist from the NYT wrote a piece about power tubes manufactured in Russia shipping to China, then to the US. That those tubes were supporting the oppressions of Ukraine. Very quickly VAC and other tube amp companies could be out of business.

    Again, I think these are just observations of how and why the audio industry might be forced into a change in the future. It is coming. Just when and how and who will survive is the 1000 watt question.
    First Sound Mark3SI preamp. Audion Black Shadow 845 SET Monoblocks. Mojo Audio Deja Vu Server. Mojo Audio Mystic 3 DAC. Linear Solution Ethernet Switch. Gigafoil with LPS. STST Motus II TT with Vertere SG1 arm, Hana ML Cartridge, Allnic H1201 phono pre. Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Horn speakers with Mundord Supreme oil caps. Power via 10 awg Oyaide cable from panel to custom distribution strip feeding front end. Oyaide dedicated10 AWG branch circuits from panel to each amp. Inakustik speaker and interconnect cables, Genesis Interconnect.
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  47. #247
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    This past month I've been comparing class AB vs Class D with two closely matched amps re price/performance/reputation. I own both the MX-Rs and Kalugas. I've been using a very narrow lens, so to speak, in my evaluations (Quad 57s). My speakers don’t do low bass nor do they reach the highest highs but what’s in the middle will leave no doubt about what the partnering amp can and can’t do. These two amps couldn’t be more different from a topology standpoint yet are much closer sonically than you'd think. I'm going to schlepp them to another 'philes place that is using Kef Blades. He's as curious as I am to hear these two amps in his rig.

    kaliga1 (2).jpg
    mxr1 (2).jpg

  48. #248

    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    With regards to Class D amps, there is a different market-dependent scenario at play that has nothing to do with environmental matters.

    More and more speaker manufacturers are embracing active speakers. Similarly, music streaming continues to grow. From what I have read, future high-end systems will likely be based on active speakers that have internet connectivity, a built-in DAC, DSP capabilities, and a Class D amp!

    So, actually, rather than destroy audio, Class D amps have the potential to make the high-end audio better sounding and more affordable.

  49. #249
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    I ordered a pair of the Atma-Sphere Class D amps. Meeting my criteria of light weight amps (~15 pounds each) Voiced by the OTL tube amp maven himself. Balanced, also a criteria for me. - coming in January I hope.

    Interesting, the Boulder gear I am looking at, the 812, has an SMPS in it. As does the Boulder 508 Phono Amp I already own.

    So, the Class D amps will have linear power supplies, but the DAC/Pre + Phono will have SMPS - go figure.

    At least I will be able to lift/carry all of it without hurting my back...
    Amp : Atma-Sphere "Class D" monoblocks
    Digital : Bricasti M12, Oppo 203
    Analog : Technics SL1200G, Boulder 508
    Speakers : Daedalus Audio Muse Studio
    Headphone : BHSE + Voce

  50. #250
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    Re: Are they going to destroy audio?

    Congrats. I'll be interested in hearing how you like them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones13 View Post
    I ordered a pair of the Atma-Sphere Class D amps. Meeting my criteria of light weight amps (~15 pounds each) Voiced by the OTL tube amp maven himself. Balanced, also a criteria for me. - coming in January I hope.

    Interesting, the Boulder gear I am looking at, the 812, has an SMPS in it. As does the Boulder 508 Phono Amp I already own.

    So, the Class D amps will have linear power supplies, but the DAC/Pre + Phono will have SMPS - go figure.

    At least I will be able to lift/carry all of it without hurting my back...
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