Taking my AMG V12 for a spin...

**Kuoppis** · March 22, 2018, 04:31 PM

Well, the title is borrowed from Alan Sircom’s stellar review of the AMG Viella with the 12” tonerarm a couple years back. Nevetheless, I’m spinning it and loving it.

This really is a stellar ‘table, so much better than what I had before. The Prime was great as an entry table, but the Vpi had to go. I grew tired of the wobbling unipivot arm and the constant feeling of having to adjust.

Bought it with the frog green AMG Teatro, which is also quite a step-up from the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze I had. Quite a bit more of everything, and more thereness. Even my wife said it feels like the artist is sitting in the room in front of you.

Spinning it with the brand new Holly Cole album I just received today. A good start with the new vinyl spinner.

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**Petro85** · March 22, 2018, 04:36 PM

sweet congrats!!! i love that table, and the arm is wonderful too!!

**Kuoppis** · March 22, 2018, 04:40 PM

The Viella comes with the excellent 12” 12J2 tonearm, which reduces tracking error due to its length. It has very nice advanced adjustment properties.

So far I am really excited about the purchase, really an excellent turntable and tonearm.

Sound-wise this one does so much more than my previous rig. The detail and immediacy of the sound are really exquisite.

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**Kuoppis** · March 22, 2018, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Petro85

sweet congrats!!! i love that table, and the arm is wonderful too!!

Thank you, very kind. I definitely like what I am hearing

.

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**aKnyght** · March 22, 2018, 04:44 PM

oh my...! such a nice TT - and looks spectacular sans wood skirt... congrats. can't wait to hear impressions.

**Kuoppis** · March 22, 2018, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by aKnyght

oh my...! such a nice TT - and looks spectacular sans wood skirt... congrats. can't wait to hear impressions.

Thank you, and yes, I also like the modern look.

I was originally interested in the Brinkmann Bardo, but the AMG is so much better when comparing them head-to-head a couple weeks back. The V12 also leaves the higher spec Brinkmann Balance in the dust.

Background is of course that AMG founder, late Werner Röschlau manufactured the Brinkmann turntables for ten years before introducing his own design. The V12 bearing is just unique and has a leg up compared to most other designs.

**Paul** · March 22, 2018, 05:19 PM

Did you win the lottery ? Lol. New dac , new TT and Cart. Nice.

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**Kuoppis** · March 22, 2018, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Paul

Did you win the lottery ? Lol. New dac , new TT and Cart. Nice.

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Hi Paul, good question, but unfortunately no.

But as coincidence has it, I sold a 1969 280 SL with a 200% margin I bought in the US close to two decades ago.

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**Etunes** · March 22, 2018, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Well, the title is borrowed from Alan Sircom’s stellar review of the AMG Viella with the 12” tonerarm a couple years back. Nevetheless, I’m spinning it and loving it.

This really is a stellar ‘table, so much better than what I had before. The Prime was great as an entry table, but the Vpi had to go. I grew tired of the wobbling unipivot arm and the constant feeling of having to adjust.

Bought it with the frog green AMG Teatro, which is also quite a step-up from the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze I had. Quite a bit more of everything, and more thereness. Even my wife said it feels like the artist is sitting in the room in front of you.

Spinning it with the brand new Holly Cole album I just received today. A good start with the new vinyl spinner.

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Awesome table. I have the turbo arm version . Basically the same just easier to adjust etc. Congrats on a great table and really liking the clean setup , no skirt w/stillpoints looks great.

**Kuoppis** · March 22, 2018, 08:30 PM

Thanks, appreciate it. The sound is phenomenal.

I feel like I only just now have started really listening to vinyl.

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**Ritmo** · March 22, 2018, 10:24 PM

A wonderful TT, congratulations!

**Mike** · March 22, 2018, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Well, the title is borrowed from Alan Sircom’s stellar review of the AMG Viella with the 12” tonerarm a couple years back. Nevetheless, I’m spinning it and loving it.

This really is a stellar ‘table, so much better than what I had before. The Prime was great as an entry table, but the Vpi had to go. I grew tired of the wobbling unipivot arm and the constant feeling of having to adjust.

Bought it with the frog green AMG Teatro, which is also quite a step-up from the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze I had. Quite a bit more of everything, and more thereness. Even my wife said it feels like the artist is sitting in the room in front of you.

Spinning it with the brand new Holly Cole album I just received today. A good start with the new vinyl spinner.

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Is it just me or is there a lot of dirt on your stylus?

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**joeinid** · March 22, 2018, 11:03 PM

It's so old it's growing hair

**W9TR** · March 23, 2018, 12:16 AM

The sound is phenomenal.
I feel like I only just now have started really listening to vinyl.

Isn't it grand? Great analogue is a very deep hole.....it just keeps getting better and better.

**nile49** · March 23, 2018, 12:56 AM

Amazing! Congrats

So you definitely preferred the AMG over Brinkmann and your previous VPI. What else did you hear along your journey to the V12? Did you consider any linear trackers?

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**Kuoppis** · March 23, 2018, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by Ritmo

A wonderful TT, congratulations!

Thank you, really like how it plays.

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**Kuoppis** · March 23, 2018, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by W9TR

Isn't it grand? Great analogue is a very deep hole.....it just keeps getting better and better.

Agreed. Great analogue is so nice you don’t want to stop listening to it.

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**Kuoppis** · March 23, 2018, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by nile49

Amazing! Congrats

So you definitely preferred the AMG over Brinkmann and your previous VPI. What else did you hear along your journey to the V12? Did you consider any linear trackers?

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Most definitely so, no comparison. Neither Vpi, nor the others could touch it.

I listened to Technics SL-1200G just to get a view on it (it did not play in the same league with the others), Brinkmann Bardo and Balance, Dr. Feikert Firebird.

The Feikert had a tangential Kuzma arm, but that was too much trouble. And I think if the AMG 12J2 wasn’t so great, I would probably be looking at the Thales Simplicity 2 arm.

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**aKnyght** · March 23, 2018, 04:10 AM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

I was originally interested in the Brinkmann Bardo, but the AMG is so much better when comparing them head-to-head a couple weeks back. The V12 also leaves the higher spec Brinkmann Balance in the dust.

not surprising as the v12 has many very happy owners. your thoghts on the 12j2 tonearm versus others is a good perspective to hear. i have been quite interested in the Bardo and the AMG Giro - but now...

**sharkmouth** · March 23, 2018, 04:31 AM

If I was you I'd get one of these as it's like a whole new tweak each time & a lot of fun if you are into tweaking http://www.arche-headshell.de/alignm...s/smartractor/ This will make it so easy & lift the table up to the best setting you can give it. You have a great cartridge in there too, another is the V12 base designed LPs Benz, a great all round cartridge that the Viella was designed around & will give you most of everything, but not the absolute utmost top tier as far as stylus's go but just a lovely musical cart that can foot it with most. The SMARTractor is one tool that I was so pleased that I bought back in the vinyl phase I went through, nothing touches it imo.

**Kuoppis** · March 23, 2018, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by aKnyght

not surprising as the v12 has many very happy owners. your thoghts on the 12j2 tonearm versus others is a good perspective to hear. i have been quite interested in the Bardo and the AMG Giro - but now...

For a quite some time I thought the Bardo would be my destination TT, but comparing it to the Viella delivered quite clear results in favor of the AMG.

Due to its whopping 22 lbs platter the V12 runs incredibly smooth. And design of the bearing system is more sophisticated than in most TTs, distributing platter weight on a wider area. Never seen such a steady platter. And as you also mentioned, the 12” arm is excellent as well, offering superb adjustment options and reducing tracking error due to its length.

I think the Giro is also great but maybe more on Bardo level.

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**sharkmouth** · March 23, 2018, 04:37 AM

I do know of several people that have gone from Viella to Brinkmann & say it too is superior. To each their own ears!

**Kuoppis** · March 23, 2018, 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by sharkmouth

If I was you I'd get one of these as it's like a whole new tweak each time & a lot of fun if you are into tweaking http://www.arche-headshell.de/alignm...s/smartractor/ This will make it so easy & lift the table up to the best setting you can give it. You have a great cartridge in there too, another is the V12 base designed LPs Benz, a great all round cartridge that the Viella was designed around & will give you most of everything, but not the absolute utmost top tier as far as stylus's go but just a lovely musical cart that can foot it with most. The SMARTractor is one tool that I was so pleased that I bought back in the vinyl phase I went through, nothing touches it imo.

Great minds think alike

.

I am just researching whether I can buy it somewhere today or if I need to order it. Was thinking about the Feikert tool. But I will look into the SMARTractor as well.

And, as a matter of fact, Benz Gullwing SLR is on order. Same cart as the LPS, but w/o the wood.

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**Kuoppis** · March 23, 2018, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by sharkmouth

I do know of several people that have gone from Viella to Brinkmann & say it too is superior. To each their own ears!

Can’t go wrong with either, as it has been the same guy making them. You know that Röschlau first practiced for ten years making Brinkmann tables, before coming up with his own design.

The Viella is just an evolution of the Bardo, taken to a technically more sophisticated level. But family resemblance is quite obvious. The Bardo sounds a bit leaner to my ears, probably to due to the lighter platter and nervousness of the direct drive.

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**sharkmouth** · March 23, 2018, 05:22 AM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Can’t go wrong with either, as it has been the same guy making them. You know that Röschlau first practiced for ten years making Brinkmann tables, before coming up with his own design.

The Viella is just an evolution of the Bardo, taken to a technically more sophisticated level. But family resemblance is quite obvious. The Bardo sounds a bit leaner to my ears, probably to due to the lighter platter and nervousness of the direct drive.

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I do know all the history. Was also told there was a court case started by Brinkmann against Röschlau because of the V12 & arm.....

**Mike** · March 23, 2018, 05:23 AM

Awesome table, congrats. Any thoughts of getting the wood skirt?

**Kuoppis** · March 23, 2018, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by sharkmouth

I do know all the history. Was also told there was a court case started by Brinkmann against Röschlau because of the V12 & arm.....

Guess at some point they decided to go their separate ways, that tends to raise the temperature a bit. But I presume nothing came about it, as both still sell their own designs.

Brinkmann’s own tonearms are adaptations of the Breuer arm. The 12J2 is however very different from Brinkmann designs, as AMG uses vertical springs which is unique in tonearm design.

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**Kuoppis** · March 23, 2018, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Awesome table, congrats. Any thoughts of getting the wood skirt?

Thank you Mike, very kind.

I do like the more industrial design style, so I guess no skirt for me. IMHO skirts are for girls and Scots.

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**XV-1** · March 23, 2018, 08:57 AM

Lovely table - congrats

You like the Stillpoint's over the stock feet? You need the black stillpoints to match the table

**heihei** · March 23, 2018, 09:16 AM

Do AMG still make the Brinkmann TTs?

**Kuoppis** · March 23, 2018, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by XV-1

Lovely table - congrats

You like the Stillpoint's over the stock feet? You need the black stillpoints to match the table

Appreciate it, very kind.

These are actually Finite Elemente Cerabase Classic footers. Based on a similar principle as Stillpoints, with ceramic balls transforming movement into heat. They just allow for more flexible height adjustment than the Stillpoints and the mechanism for it is separated from the actual decoupling.

The Viella can be bought with a HRS base, but I did not opt for that, as the Cerabases fulfill the same task and I already had them.

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**Kuoppis** · March 23, 2018, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by heihei

Do AMG still make the Brinkmann TTs?

Nope, they parted ways quite some time ago.

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**Kuoppis** · March 23, 2018, 02:53 PM

Got the Feikert Protractor today: re-doing the setup with proper tools.

Very nice tool, I must say. Rock solid.

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**slowgeezr** · March 23, 2018, 02:54 PM

Congrats, Kuoppis! That was one of the turntables I was looking at when I purchased mine. Silly me, little did I know that my table's manufacturer would retire and close down shop and offer no more support. I'd give the Ortofon another try, if you haven't heard it in the new setup. You might be surprised. When I sold my VPI and purchased my table, I used the same cartridge initially. It was shocking. Myself and my audio buds couldn't believe I was using the same cartridge. That was the realization for myself and my audio friends that a table could make so much difference.

**Kuoppis** · March 23, 2018, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by slowgeezr

Congrats, Kuoppis! That was one of the turntables I was looking at when I purchased mine. Silly me, little did I know that my table's manufacturer would retire and close down shop and offer no more support. I'd give the Ortofon another try, if you haven't heard it in the new setup. You might be surprised. When I sold my VPI and purchased my table, I used the same cartridge initially. It was shocking. Myself and my audio buds couldn't believe I was using the same cartridge. That was the realization for myself and my audio friends that a table could make so much difference.

Thanks Steve, good to hear. I think the AMG is a solid piece of kit.

I actually sold the Ortofon with the previous table to get rid of all the old junk. But I am sure it would have sounded better on the V12.

The Teatro cart I just took as I got such a sweet deal on it. My actual cart for the Viella has yet to be delivered.

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**Kuoppis** · March 23, 2018, 03:33 PM

Teatro cart mounted.

AMG definitely know how to get the specs right: .4mV output, Titanium body, solid Boron cantilever, Line Contact Diamond, Neodymium magnets, separate coils for both channels, Pure Copper Ohno Continuous Casting (OCC), body moulded in the US, generator built and tested in Japan. What is there not to like?

Very solid performer, in comparison to my previous Cadenza Bronze it might be a bit more balanced, have a slightly better top-end extension and more downward extending bass (the V12 might have something to do with that though).

I’m running it at 300 Ohms resistive load. Tried different settings between 100 and 500 Ohms and this is what I liked the best. Nice balance between bass heft and sparkle, excellent dynamics.

Absolutely adore that froggy color

.

And it has the world’s most solid needle protector. Not sure what AMG are protecting the cart against, a nuclear blast? It’s moulded aluminum.

**Petro85** · March 23, 2018, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Great minds think alike

.

And, as a matter of fact, Benz Gullwing SLR is on order. Same cart as the LPS, but w/o the wood.

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Great choice, one of my alltime favorite cartridges!!! i thought it similar but a step better than LP-S just by my ears, i didnt know they were basically the same when i heard them.

oh and dont discount the cadenzas, so much better on another table than the vpi

**pweg** · March 23, 2018, 07:44 PM

Great choice Kuoppis - i love my V12

When i bought mine i compared it to the Kronos Sparta, but found the AMG better for my ears

**JimmyS** · March 23, 2018, 08:51 PM

Got one a few months back replacing my clear audio ovation. Very happy with the upgrade.

**Kuoppis** · March 24, 2018, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by Petro85

Great choice, one of my alltime favorite cartridges!!! i thought it similar but a step better than LP-S just by my ears, i didnt know they were basically the same when i heard them.

oh and dont discount the cadenzas, so much better on another table than the vpi

Thanks Petro, agreed and agreed

.

The Gullwing SLR is a really fine cart and up there with the best. A bit more transparent compared to the LP-S, while the LP-S offers a bit more body and is a tad warmer. But with the V12 22 lbs platter I do get enough body and bass w/o picking a warmish cart. I guess the difference in sound signature between the Gullwing SLR and LP-S comes from the different materials used.

The Teatro is an almost double as dear cart in comparison to the Ortofon, but that does not diminish the Cadenza Bronze qualities in any way. It’s a superstar for the money, the TT also plays a big role for sure.

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**Kuoppis** · March 24, 2018, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by pweg

Great choice Kuoppis - i love my V12

When i bought mine i compared it to the Kronos Sparta, but found the AMG better for my ears

Wow, that is a big compliment towards the V12, as the Sparta (or higher up Kronos for that matter) are currently frequently presented as the bees knees at trade shows.

But I concur, while I just love the Sparta tech with the counter rotating platters, I do prefer the V12 as a turntable.

Very nice system also, I saw the V12/ DS002 demo at my dealer’s yesterday and will go for a demo after easter. Valin also talked highly of the DS002 in his recent review. It is a great offer, taking in consideration that it comes with the phono pre.

Congrats on the stellar system, nice to have like-minded analogue fans on the forum.

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**Kuoppis** · March 24, 2018, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by JimmyS

Got one a few months back replacing my clear audio ovation. Very happy with the upgrade.

Nice system Jimmy, congrats!

I see a V12, Pass amplification - we seem to have similar tastes. I am also very positive about the V12 and really hear a quantum leap in analogue reproduction in my system.

Also like the purity and ease of use of the AMG, the clean design and smooth operation with the sensor touch buttons.

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**Kuoppis** · March 24, 2018, 09:27 AM

Here’s a recommendation for V12 owners: try to replace the screw-on clamp coming in-box with a Stillpoints LPI.

I found the screw-on clamp might sound a bit cleaner, but the LPI definitely sounds more natural and engaging, at least with classical music. Instrument timbres and body are portrayed more realistically with the LPI.

My in-box clamp is now banned to the music room drawer.

**pweg** · March 25, 2018, 04:40 AM

Kuopis - the DS002 didnt last long in my system. It was soo good i traded it back and got the Master1

**Kuoppis** · March 25, 2018, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by pweg

Kuopis - the DS002 didnt last long in my system. It was soo good i traded it back and got the Master1

Excellent, congrats!

How would you compare the pros/ cons of either of them?

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**Elztalbiker** · March 25, 2018, 01:46 PM

Would recommend Firebird with AMG 12J2 arm
and DS02 - awesome ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

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**Mogulman** · March 25, 2018, 03:19 PM

Here is my V12, I'm using a Air Tight PC 1. Also have a Minus K for isolation.

**Kuoppis** · March 25, 2018, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Mogulman

Here is my V12, I'm using a Air Tight PC 1. Also have a Minus K for isolation.

Uuuh, how nice. Congrats on the magnificent system.

For me the V12 with Air Tight Opus 1 is the end game, it simply does not get better than that. Just watch out, one day...

.

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**Mogulman** · March 25, 2018, 07:04 PM

Although my friend David Karmeli says his AS-2000 is the end game at $100K.

**Kuoppis** · March 25, 2018, 07:54 PM

Well, if you put it that way, going to a live concert is the end game

.

But I also find that ‘table a bit rough looking.

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Thread: Taking my AMG V12 for a spin...