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Thread: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
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August 29, 2020, 04:53 PM #1
Streaming vs dedicated CD player
Lumin mini with sbooster via Siltech golden ridge 2 AES into a Bryston BDA3. If I put this Siltech cable on a new bryston CD3 which one would win for straight up sound quality.
Thanks
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August 29, 2020, 06:04 PM #2
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Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
At this time, I don't know of any high end streamer that beats a high end CD / SACD player. IMO, while streaming can be VERY good (I use Aurender) CDs are still better. But IMO the gap is getting closer and closer....
PS: I rip all my CDs using an ACS10, but the CDs - and SACDs which won’t rip on a ACS10 - are still better than any rip. Ultimately, CDs sound better than streaming.
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August 29, 2020, 06:51 PM #3
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Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
I cannot tell a difference when playing a Disc or when playing a ripped file from that CD. So I personally decided not bother with a CD player anymore.
Moreover, with the right set up, you can stream any CD-quality signal (16/44) up-sample it and/or convert to DSD (what SACD discs use), plus add digital FIR filters (including Room correction filters) of your choice. And you can see all of the album material and never have to get out of your seat to change the music. No CD player that I know at any price can do all that.
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August 29, 2020, 08:27 PM #4
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
I rip any CD or SACD. Not only for sound quality but for convenience to play from my server. More important anything from my server is played through HQPlayer and up sampled to DSD512, sounding better than any spinner will play the disk in my view.
McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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August 29, 2020, 10:08 PM #5
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
CD would win.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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August 30, 2020, 12:14 AM #6
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
To me this all depends on the DAC. I know of no DAC in any CD player that will compete with the current SOTA DACs/network players that are out there. Not because they couldn't, just that's not where the manufacturers are putting their best DACs.
If we are talking about a CD spinner that only send digital to a DAC then -- every combo will be a different story. You really need to listen to each and decide which one you prefer.Jock
If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.
---------
House: Naim ND555/2PS, Naim 552, Naim 500, Studer A80/Doshi V3, Magico M2s, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Lumina IC/SC, Shunyata Everest and Omega PCs.
Workshop: Naim ND555/2 PS, VAC Master Pre, VAC Sig 200iQ, Border Patrol pre/power, Avant Garde Duo Mezzo XD, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Shunyata IC/SC, Shunyata Typhon QR/Triton V3/Sigma PCs.
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August 30, 2020, 08:52 AM #7
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
I’m looking for a back up or alternative to streaming for that moment when my old iMac dies or I have a Roon issue etc. I stream wirelessly from another room where my old 08 iMac runs Roon streams it to my router in my cave. From the router it’s Ethernet to the lumin. Zero issues over the last year no lags etc but still would like a back up. With my bryston BDA3 I probably should look for just a decent cheaper transport.
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August 30, 2020, 09:14 AM #8
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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August 30, 2020, 12:08 PM #9
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August 30, 2020, 01:06 PM #10
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August 30, 2020, 02:33 PM #11
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
im so dumb with computers I have no idea what they are lol hence the CD player back up. But I will look. To be honest my 08 iMac hasn’t gave me one ounce of grief. I have also been told even though it’s maxed out for processing power it does not affect sound quality. If that’s the case I’m in no rush.
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August 31, 2020, 08:14 AM #12
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
When a computer is being pushed very hard it definitely affects the sound quality. Most playback software is CPU dependent so being maxed out is not a good thing. People who do not know will say it doesn't. but then again people say that cables make no difference also, so to each their own .
McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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August 31, 2020, 09:17 AM #13
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
I did an experiment awhile back, comparing my MCD 1100 playing RBCD’s into my Yggdrasil via AES/XLR and the identical song played via SurfacePro 3 USB into Yggy Unison USB input. The SurfacePro 3 was running on its batteries and the files were on its internal hard drive.
I could not tell any difference between the two using a standard set of tracks I use to audition new gear. I’ve heard these tracks hundreds of times.
Now this is pretty good gear, certainly not at the level many of the folks here enjoy, so I can easily see how others may come to different conclusions.Tom
Audio:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Video:
MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.
Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
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August 31, 2020, 09:32 AM #14
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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August 31, 2020, 09:39 AM #15
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Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
you are 100% right that it's a challenge for server makers to overcome. but......there are servers and dacs now (at higher price points for sure) that have met and overcome the processing power and heat issues that were real processing limitations until very recently. maybe investigate the Taiko Extreme server. it is a 99 pound music server. ninety nine pounds for a computer!!!
SGM EXTREME – Taiko Audio
i've owned one for a year. these are heavily back ordered taking a few months to get.
my point being that if you want digital gear that is not stressed by getting pushed hard they exist. but it will cost you.my system on Audiogon; https://www.audiogon.com/systems/615
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August 31, 2020, 10:25 AM #16
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Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
did you ever had the chance to hear theyr alsyvox speakers?
why did you give the server away after a year?
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August 31, 2020, 11:30 AM #17
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
I was playing the CD rip against the CD.
I’ve tried Tidal and Amazon Music comparisons against CD’s and the results are sometimes so wacky that the mastering must be totally different.
Other times they are close but the CD’s sound better. I have really slow internet speeds at both our houses so that may be a contributing factor.Tom
Audio:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC
Video:
MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.
Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
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August 31, 2020, 12:04 PM #18
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- Aug 2014
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Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
sorry if my writing was not clear, i still own my Extreme Server and love it to death. Emile (the designer/builder) visited me in my room last November. i do own multiple Taiko products.....and have known Emile and Ed for a few years.
not visited the Netherlands ever, but would love to. two years ago i did hear the Alsyvox at RMAF and was impressed. i recommended them to a local friend who did buy them. great speaker.my system on Audiogon; https://www.audiogon.com/systems/615
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August 31, 2020, 12:23 PM #19
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
The OP asked Streaming, not ripping, vs. CD player
IMO, from worst to best: Streaming, CD player, ripped file.....
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August 31, 2020, 01:10 PM #20Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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August 31, 2020, 02:40 PM #21
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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August 31, 2020, 02:42 PM #22
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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August 31, 2020, 03:13 PM #23
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- east of Seattle
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Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
more like about $28,000 USD, but i completely agree with you that that is an ouch! number. there are other solutions that succeed to varying degrees at solving the same issues. so users have lots of solid alternatives at various price points.
the Extreme is for the crazy serious person who might have chased computer digital musical bliss for years, maybe built a new server himself every year for 6-7 years, and then observes all the investments he has made might total as much or more than an Extreme, but still are held back by certain barriers that the Extreme has solved. you look at drawers or shelves full of computer bits and pieces and realize it can end now.
or; maybe someone is considering a vinyl investment, but likes the fact that musical access is unlimited literally with digital streaming. the budget is re-purposed to the server.
so the Extreme does answer questions for some.....and be a reasonably rational decision.
but most either, don't choose to, or cannot choose to, buy one. like the tip top of any product category.my system on Audiogon; https://www.audiogon.com/systems/615
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August 31, 2020, 03:29 PM #24
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
The reasons you need such power is because Roon is an absolute pig for resources. Like I’ve said, I love the interface, but sonically and it’s resourcing requirements, are not ideal. I won’t be surprised if people start to move away from Roon. I will be watching the SGM guys closely. They probably already know what I’m saying. I would be curious if they have tried any other software, like Audirvana and how it compared to Roon SONICALLY.
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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August 31, 2020, 03:30 PM #25
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
I just saw the price in pound and did a conversion... sounds like a wonderful machine, but dam...
I truly wonder how much of a difference this would actually be from my Falcon running Roon and HQPlayer. I believe the rest of my system would be the limiting factor making it difficult to actually see any difference with this awesome server.McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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August 31, 2020, 03:33 PM #26
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
Hehe, Roon is a lite weight in resource usage verses HQPlayer . HQPlayer is the software that drives the resource requirements over the top .
With just Roon running my CPU use is in the single digits but HQPlayer pushes all 8 CPU's in the 30-40% range, if I am recalling correct (I compared these a few months ago).McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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August 31, 2020, 03:44 PM #27
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- east of Seattle
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Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
Emile of SGM has tried them all, and is actually creating his own Roon alternative for his servers narrowly focused on high performance music applications. a few months back he did briefly send out some beta versions, but then found a Roon work-around of some of those Roon issues and pulled it back for more work. but it's on it's way.
the question will be whether he will offer it to users of other servers. i suppose that depends on how hard it is to have it be open enough to work on other servers, and how much secret stuff might be involved.
until i hear it in my system hard to know how it will turn out. but Emile has conquered other barriers no one else thought he could. so my money is on him.my system on Audiogon; https://www.audiogon.com/systems/615
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August 31, 2020, 03:52 PM #28
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
Mike, I’m not surprised Emile is building his own software as I’m certain he’s finding Roon is probably the bottleneck in his search for further sonic success. I wish him well and look forward to hearing how much better his software will sound.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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August 31, 2020, 04:16 PM #29
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August 31, 2020, 04:18 PM #30
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Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
is the sgm a streamer as well or just storage?
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August 31, 2020, 04:42 PM #31
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
Mike I have no idea where you get that Roon is a pig for resources. I have been running a SGC i5 without a hic-up for some time now.
Sure I tried Audivrana when I was looking for something to replace Sooloos. I have also A/B'd a Aurender unit vs Roon and found no SQ differences yet "I" felt the Aurender GUI was too complicated.
As far as a $28k Taiko unit I put that in the same box as Relentless amps and the XVX or MBL Extremes. No matter how good they sound my mind will not allow me to pull out the check book. I am glad those products are available for those who want the best.Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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August 31, 2020, 05:19 PM #32
Streaming vs dedicated CD player
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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August 31, 2020, 05:47 PM #33
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
The core usage on my unit seldom if ever hits 5%. There is an app to monitor it.
Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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August 31, 2020, 06:16 PM #34
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Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
hi Joe,
mostly the configurations have to do with how much PCIe memory (if any) you want, and choice of various interfaces both input and output, that are non standard. mine has USB as primary and maximum memory.
most users use USB at this time.
i only have one output connection myself that i use presently, the USB. although i have also used an MSB Renderer too. for input i have used a regular Ethernet connection, although now i'm using the SPF optical interface input. the ideal of these different interfaces is jumping around. the Extreme is completely flexible on which is the best, and Emile is super helpful to support any changes. and if there is any upgrades, these are done remotely by Emile or his crew in a very timely way. appointments are made for windows of time so remote pathways don't need to be kept permanently open. very real world stuff, and it works seamlessly.my system on Audiogon; https://www.audiogon.com/systems/615
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August 31, 2020, 06:24 PM #35
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Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
both.
it's a steamer that uses a special PCIe internal interface for it's storage. this interface bypasses the normal processes hard drives or solid state drives typically use so it's faster and quieter. i've over-simplified this as i'm no techie. there is a 4808 post thread on What's Best Forum about the Extreme that will answer any and all questions you might have.my system on Audiogon; https://www.audiogon.com/systems/615
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August 31, 2020, 06:44 PM #36
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
But that CPU is inherently noisy. That noise gets into the audio signal. I wish it wasn’t so because the UI is so damn good, but we can hear it when we do comparisons.
Anyway, if it works for you, that’s awesome. But I would encourage you to try something like an Aurender just for fun. You might be surprised.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
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August 31, 2020, 07:08 PM #37
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August 31, 2020, 07:48 PM #38
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
We went from an old Mac mini to the Nucleus in the store. Didn’t hear any change to be honest. Thought sound performance would improve, but it didn’t.
There’s an old post - 18 months ago maybe, where we compared Nucleus vs Innuos Vs Aurender. Aurender won. We had six guys listening.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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August 31, 2020, 08:21 PM #39
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
How's that Aurender app?
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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August 31, 2020, 08:34 PM #40
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
The current iteration is very good. What’s coming, with the features coming (sorry, I can’t say!!), is going to be fantastic!
And let’s not forget, the Lumin app is also very functional and sounds great too.
Nothing touches Roon for look and feel and UI. Nothing. But in the store, we are constantly between Roon, Lumin and Aurender apps. I love the ecosystem of Aurender for stability and most importantly, sound.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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September 1, 2020, 03:06 AM #41
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
In my system playing a CD in my dCS Rossini gives the best result, in order of performance:
- CD in dCS Rossini
- Ripped files and high res downloads on SSD drive, connected to dCS Rossini
- Ripped files and high res downloads on Aurender N10 (Internal storage)
- Streaming (Qobuz/Tidal)with dCS Rossini
- Streaming with Aurender N10 (very close to Rossini, more a matter of taste, Aurender conductor App is very user friendly and reliable)
- Playing CD/SACD/Blu Ray with Oppo BDP 103D (Audiopraise digital board), Rossini as DAC.
In the last few years streaming has come closer to CD, changing the power supplies for router etc, and the addition of an audiophile network switch helped here.
Usually using the Aurender N10 to stream Qobuz, performance is still very good and so "comfortable", when I come across music I really like I will order the CD.Last edited by imprezap2; September 1, 2020 at 03:13 AM. Reason: addition
Moon 700i V2, YG Acoustics Hailey, Aurender N10, dCS Rossini, Oppo BDP103D (audiopraise board), Ansuz Mainz 8 D2
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September 1, 2020, 08:30 AM #42
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Posts
- 574
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
It's almost 2021 and physical CD playback still is the one to to beat. Quality over convenience every time.
Subjective yes and we can each prefer our own configuration. However, we can agree on the following facts.
1.) Advances in playback equipment for physical compact disc have taken compact disc performance to a higher level. (Esoteric FPGA , Luxman-D10Xu....)
2.) It takes an extreme amount of patience and deep pockets to remove distortion from computer/network audio.
3.) The simplicity of your CD player running a pair of analog outs in your pre-amp. I wonder if the shortest signal path has something to do with it? Network audio , not so much.
4.) Perhaps the issue was never with 16/44 Redbook CD format. The issue was with the playback equipment.
Hardware technology in recent years has breathed new life in the compact disc.
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September 1, 2020, 08:43 AM #43
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
Ummm... 5% usage does not make a CPU noisy (that's like driving your car at 10 MPH, your engine is not working at all)... 30% use does not either in reality.... maybe the low power CPU's being used in dedicated built "servers" might get noisy but certainly not in well made appropriate powered machines. My 8 core CPU does not cause the machine to get noisy at all, even when HQPlayer pushes it harder than any other software available... much more so than Roon stand alone. Roon is actually very lite weight in CPU usage compared to most any other music playing software. Even JRivers is more resource demanding.
McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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September 1, 2020, 08:46 AM #44
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
Playing from files stored locally versus stream across a network is exactly the same as playing from a CD except you do not have the noise of a physical disk spinning. It is the network and streaming element that starts causing issues, not the digital format being sent to your DAC.
McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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September 1, 2020, 10:02 AM #45
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
Theoretically a ripped file could sound better than playing physical media since you can error correct over several encoding passes to get a perfect rip. When you spin a disc, you are counting on the disc player’s internal error detection and correction circuitry to do its thing perfectly. I’ve done some listening experiments on my system and have found no difference between the two. Perhaps someone with a more resolving system will have a different outcome.
Tom
Audio:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
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Video:
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Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3
OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
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September 1, 2020, 10:56 AM #46
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
I certainly would not say that my system is more resolving than yours .... I do notice a difference playing the ripped files versus the disk, and even more so comparing the SACD. I attribute these to a few things. First spinning the physical disk can add noise. Second the DAC being used. The DAC in my Oppo is solid, a ESS 9018, but it is not close to the T+A. Also being able to run the signal through HQPlayer and then on to the DAC at DSD512 is a huge improvement.
With SACD's they are playing at DSD64. While DSD64 is very good it also inherently has an issue with high frequency noise that does fall within the audible range. This is the reason that T+A turns off their WIDE function if DSD64 is detected for fear of damaging your speakers. By ripping the files I get the convenience of playing from the server but more important I can run them through HQPlayer and they end up sounding a whole lot better. I have definitely noticed the better the file going in the better it comes out of HQPlayer! So comparing a SACD rip to a DSD256 or DSD512 download running through HQPlayer simply sounds better.McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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September 1, 2020, 11:07 AM #47
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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September 1, 2020, 12:22 PM #48
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
> there is also this thread which discusses this same topic of roon software and comparisons to others.
respectfully offered for consideration...
these are not objective tests of playback software. they are tests of hardware/software combinations ...and, imo, the differences heard are overwhelmingly if not entirely attributable to the hardware.
i would certainly hope an aurender would outperform a nucleus. aurenders and the like are highly-engineered, purpose-built music servers/streamers -- they are high-end audiophile components with the minimization of electrical noise as an overriding goal. the roon nucleus is an off-the-shelf intel nuc motherboard put in a fanless chassis -- as openly noted by roon, nothing audiophile about this at all.
admittedly, i am a huge fan of roon software; have never had any of the issues noted here and elsewhere, particularly wrt/ resource utilization; and don't see any remotely competative alternative for those wishing to use a (dedicated) computer in their digital stack -- also, roon ROCK has been a game changer.
that being said, no-one should expect high-end audiophile performance from a nucleus. it is a low-end, consumer-grade computer which is under spec'd for many of the use cases owners ask it to perform.
so, to evaluate the SQ of playback software where one software gets to use an aurender and the other software has to use a nucleus is just not a fair fight.
as always, i leave open the possibility that YMMV
images of an n10 and a nucleus...viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | almarro a318b + air tight atc-5 (phono) | clearaudio concept + virtuoso v2 MM | t+a dac8 dsd + diy transport + roon rock
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September 1, 2020, 02:03 PM #49
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
I have, I used a WireWord Coax cable also so not just a plain Jane RCA cable..... the rip played through Roon and HQPlayer is quite a bit better than spun on the player. Several members of our audio club have done the same comparison and all agree that the rip is better. I am one of the only one that uses HQPlayer though.
Again I do not have super high end spinner although most people would agree I do not have a cheap-o player either. I have done this test using both a Marantz SD-8005 and my current Oppo.McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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September 1, 2020, 03:39 PM #50
Re: Streaming vs dedicated CD player
2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
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