Speakers that handle every genre of music - important?

**Mike** · December 25, 2016, 07:06 AM

If you mostly listen to classical or rock or jazz, how important is it to you that your speakers play every genre of music well?

I have audio friends who mostly listen to rock, and their systems rock! But, I'm not so sure they can convey the emotion and message and tonality of a cello in a classical piece.

Conversely, I know some who only listen to classical and they are magnificent, but when you play rock on their systems, they just don't cut it. For example, my Strads did most genres well, but they didn't rock.

**Kuoppis** · December 25, 2016, 07:13 AM

In practical terms maybe not, if you have found your musical taste.

My $0.02: If you are however looking for a SOTA system, IMHO the speakers need to manage it all. This is especially if we're talking midsize car purchase level of price tags, there can be no excuses.

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**MDP** · December 25, 2016, 09:28 AM

I think a great speaker plays all genres well!

I know my Salons do

**jadedavid** · December 25, 2016, 09:30 AM

I have not yet heard that perfect pair. (I've seen a perfect pair, But back to audio).
What I have noticed is those speakers that come closer to being "all-arounders" do not do many of the holographic traits well.
I have always struggled with this discontinuity.
Has anyone else experienced this?

**Mike** · December 25, 2016, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by jadedavid

I have not yet heard that perfect pair. (I've seen a perfect pair, But back to audio).
What I have noticed is those speakers that come closer to being "all-arounders" do not do many of the holographic traits well.
I have always struggled with this discontinuity.
Has anyone else experienced this?

Interesting. I need to think about this a little....

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**Dr Tone** · December 25, 2016, 11:26 AM

I'm fine with slightly voiced/colored if it makes my main music of choice sound the best.

**rbbert** · December 25, 2016, 11:55 AM

I don't have much experience with true upper echelon speakers (e.g., Alexandrias, Q7's, NOLA Grand Reference, etc) but certainly at levels below that any speakers I have heard do better with some types of music than others. That doesn't mean they can't do everything well, if you understand the distinction.

**RDSChicago** · December 25, 2016, 12:05 PM

While this viewpoint is antithetical to those of us who wish to spend $20,000 and up for a pair of speakers, and is contrary to my great love of monitors, Linkwitz Orion's and LX521's reproduce all genres of music superlatively well. There is something to the open baffle concept, eliminating the limitations imposed by a speaker cabinet, allowing the room to essentially become the "cabinet", particularly with excellent drivers like the SEAS Excel and a custom-tuned external crossover designed by Siegfried Linkwitz.

**Alpinist** · December 25, 2016, 12:10 PM

My Raidho D-3's played classical and jazz extremely well but came up a little short on rock and roll. Lower quality recordings were not particularly enjoyable. My Vandersteen 7 MkII's seem to excel on all genres of music with very little deviation in performance. Lower quality recordings can still be highly satisfying. I find myself playing a much wider selection of music now.

Ken

**Dpod4** · December 25, 2016, 12:19 PM

Alan Sircom's new review on M3 centers on this very topic. He says when he put on different genres of music it was as if the speakers were built for that genre. That was the part of the review that stuck out for me. He is one of the very few audio writers I truly respect - Alan for speakers, Michael Fremer for analogue, and our favorite reviewer on this forum for anything.

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**Mike** · December 25, 2016, 12:21 PM

I wasn't thinking of price necessarily. I was thinking more about experiences. My Strads and Maggie's didn't rock, but they were champs for everything else. I remember playing AC/DC Back in Black on my Strads and literally burst out laughing. My Raidho's would make me weep listening to classical and older poorer quality recordings, they were incredible. Still haven't heard a better violin or cello than with my Raidho's. But I wouldn't play Daft Punk on them. But I don't listen to Daft Punk anyway. My Wilson's, AG's, Focal's and Magico's played all genres well. I'm not so sure a BBC type design would be ideal for rock, but I could be wrong.

Too early to tell on my Vandy Quattro CT's, but first impressions are very good. Very musical with great spatial attributes.

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**Jozua** · December 25, 2016, 12:27 PM

My experience has been that the higher the quality of the audio equipment, the more problematic it becomes to find music that really satisfies in terms of recording quality. I often find music that really moves me but then the recording quality is terrible. For me it not genre related but recording quality related.

The answer lies in having two systems, a high end setup for serious listening and a mid-hi-fi system for poor recordings.

And having valves helps a lot to make things bearable....

**JDLaudio** · December 25, 2016, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by RDSChicago

While this viewpoint is antithetical to those of us who wish to spend $20,000 and up for a pair of speakers, and is contrary to my great love of monitors, Linkwitz Orion's and LX521's reproduce all genres of music superlatively well. There is something to the open baffle concept, eliminating the limitations imposed by a speaker cabinet, allowing the room to essentially become the "cabinet", particularly with excellent drivers like the SEAS Excel and a custom-tuned external crossover designed by Siegfried Linkwitz.

Ditto on the open baffle speakers, especially in combination with horns. Eliminating the box so the drivers can couple with the room, can have very positive results. Especially the bass.

**Alpinist** · December 25, 2016, 01:15 PM

I believe this is a very underestimated aspect of speaker assessment. I'll call it the MYMC (Mine Your Music Collection) Factor.

Best,
Ken

**Paul** · December 25, 2016, 01:27 PM

I heard the best Straker playing cello on my Tannoy Westminster with tube amps ( goose bump ) but not so much on Rock genre. However I heard the same speakers that sounded great on rock and heavy metal in different room and gear but the Jazz and classical wasn't good as my set up. I think it's all depend on your room and gear too.

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**bzr** · December 25, 2016, 04:27 PM

Mike, what about the open baffles you had? Were they a very good all-rounder? If not, what about if they were paired with some "good" subs?

**mep** · December 25, 2016, 04:55 PM

In a perfect world, all really good speakers should be able to play any genre of music and not favor one over another. The more full range your speaker system is, the easier it is to pull this feat off. But, if you own mini-monitors or small two ways, that isn't going to happen. If you own Quad 57s, that isn't going to happen. If you own a pair of speakers with built in bass lift that goes boom in your room, that's not going to happen. On the other hand, even if your speakers can play all genres of music with equal authority, it doesn't mean you want to listen to all genres of music. I don't listen to opera, hillbilly hee haw, or rap, but I think my speakers could pull them all off.

**Mike** · December 25, 2016, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by bzr

Mike, what about the open baffles you had? Were they a very good all-rounder? If not, what about if they were paired with some "good" subs?

I think so. The biggest challenge I recall with open baffle speakers (aside from the different look) is the bass. The rear bass energy can cancel the front bass energy. Many subs and DSP helps this problem. I believe a wider baffle helps too.

As for music variety, I would say they do all genres well when setup properly with DSP, multiple subs, etc.

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**Dpod4** · December 25, 2016, 05:59 PM

ADS speakers from the 70s / 80s.

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**kzhtoo** · December 25, 2016, 07:16 PM

Shouldn't a reference level speaker be able to play all genre well? If not, IMO it shouldn't be regarded as such.

**jdandy** · December 25, 2016, 08:24 PM

And you wonder why a measly two speakers in your room don't rise to the occasion.

JBL knows Rock-N-Roll.

**Melbguy1** · December 26, 2016, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

If you mostly listen to classical or rock or jazz, how important is it to you that your speakers play every genre of music well?

I have audio friends who mostly listen to rock, and their systems rock! But, I'm not so sure they can convey the emotion and message and tonality of a cello in a classical piece.

Conversely, I know some who only listen to classical and they are magnificent, but when you play rock on their systems, they just don't cut it. For example, my Strads did most genres well, but they didn't rock.

I have an eclectic music collection incl: world music, classical, acoustic, jazz, blues, pop, grunge & rock. So having loudspeakers capable of reproducing accurate tone/timbre, dynamic range, transient speed, scale and impact within a realistic sound stage is very important. They need to be able to convey emotion and intimacy with vocals, acoustic & jazz in particular, but also make my feet tap with rock & 90's metal and grunge. My old S5's, and to a greater extent my current S5 Mk2's fit that bill and are great "all-rounders", able to handle all genres with equal aplomb

.

**Alpinist** · December 26, 2016, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Melbguy1

I have an eclectic music collection incl: world music, classical, acoustic, jazz, blues, pop, grunge & rock. So having loudspeakers capable of reproducing accurate tone/timbre, dynamic range, transient speed, scale and impact within a realistic sound stage is very important. They need to be able to convey emotion and intimacy with vocals, acoustic & jazz in particular, but also make my feet tap with rock & 90's metal and grunge. My old S5's, and to a greater extent my current S5 Mk2's fit that bill and are great "all-rounders", able to handle all genres with equal aplomb

.

I did a four hour long audition of the Magico S7 and played small and large scale classical, jazz, rock, new age and country music. The S7's were equally proficient with all genres of music. No weak points on any type of music I played.

Best,
Ken

**The Sandman** · December 26, 2016, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

I did a four hour long audition of the Magico S7 and played small and large scale classical, jazz, rock, new age and country music. The S7's were equally proficient with all genres of music. No weak points on any type of music I played.

Best,
Ken

That's a long session... no fatigue? And what electronics were on the Magicos?

I still can't get over the way mine sound with the XS300's.

**matt_zak** · December 26, 2016, 01:04 PM

I chose my Verity speakers because they sound good with the wide variety of music that the wife and I listen to. They excel at certain types of course but even poorly recorded music sounds good. I think it's the soft dome tweeter that helps.

**Dpod4** · December 26, 2016, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by matt_zak

I chose my Verity speakers because they sound good with the wide variety of music that the wife and I listen to. They excel at certain types of course but even poorly recorded music sounds good. I think it's the soft dome tweeter that helps.

And they are beautiful to look at.

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**matt_zak** · December 26, 2016, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Dpod4

And they are beautiful to look at.

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Yes they are. I miss them.

They're in storage while we're here in Riyadh.

**Melbguy1** · December 26, 2016, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

I did a four hour long audition of the Magico S7 and played small and large scale classical, jazz, rock, new age and country music. The S7's were equally proficient with all genres of music. No weak points on any type of music I played.

Best,
Ken

Yes the 'poor man's MPro' goes well

.

**rbbert** · December 26, 2016, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dpod4

Alan Sircom's new review on M3 centers on this very topic. He says when he put on different genres of music it was as if the speakers were built for that genre. That was the part of the review that stuck out for me...

+1

**Mike** · December 26, 2016, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dpod4

Alan Sircom's new review on M3 centers on this very topic. He says when he put on different genres of music it was as if the speakers were built for that genre. That was the part of the review that stuck out for me. He is one of the very few audio writers I truly respect - Alan for speakers, Michael Fremer for analogue, and our favorite reviewer on this forum for anything.

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I agree Darrin and that's what got me thinking about the topic. Everything I've thrown at the M3's, they handle incredibly well from AC/DC to Mahler and everything in between and at all levels, except for maybe a "Bud on a Friday night" level.

Speakers that handle every genre of music - important?

. (Note: for those who don't remember, Bud blew up is Magico S5's after playing his Pass X600.5's at full or near full output). I can only imagine the SPL levels must have been 115db or higher. But I digress...

Back to the topic...

From the M3 review:

"How special? Whatever you play through the M3 sounds like you selected it speci cally for the Magico M3, as if it were playing to its strengths. When you realise that you’ve looked at the same loudspeaker as being the ultimate Roots Reggae loudspeaker, the ultimate choral music loudspeaker, the ultimate soft jazz club loudspeaker, you realise that either someone’s been secretly swapping loudspeakers in front of you, or that the M3 is capable of playing everything, and playing it well."

My takeaways from the M3's is that they don't sound like the Q series, their efficiency has a positive impact on dynamics, the tweeter is so darn good that you can listen for hours and there is an undeniable seamless cohesion between the drivers. All resulting in one of the most musical speakers I've ever heard.

But specifically related to the topic, the same ability to play all genres can be said about so many SOTA speakers today, including Wilson, Rockport, Vivid, YG, Vandersteen, etc., etc. It really is a testament to those companies continually pushing the envelope and ultimately, pushing each other.

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**the professor** · December 26, 2016, 03:05 PM

Over the last 5 years, competition in Audio is at the highest level ever. Part of that is because, companies have found that there really is a market for pricier items - although small, but its there.

But I think that most of it is because - the tools to design, test etc are fairly cheap. Look at the RTA analyzer s that are available on an iPhone. 20 years ago a ten thousand dollar unit wasn't as accurate as a FREE app.

The cost for admission for engineers just isn't an issue. It allows for more and more competition.

**Mike** · December 26, 2016, 03:15 PM

Here's what I want to know: Has access to Tidal translated into a change in speaker preferences? With the introduction of Tidal, we now have access to millions of songs across all genres. Will this expand our listening tastes and hence expand our speaker performance requirements?

More than a few times, while listening to an album on Tidal, I've said to myself, "wow, I would never have bought that album, but it's really good!"

Will someone who is seeking out new speakers today, test those speakers to ensure they play all genres well? Does this also mean those speakers which adhere to the BBC design philosophy can't play all genres well? Would you consider an LS3/5a based speaker if you're into rock or broadening your horizons due to Tidal?

Stereophile 1977:

http://www.stereophile.com/standloud...0TCjPuXM1RD.97

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**rrwmd** · December 26, 2016, 04:09 PM

This is a fascinating thread, as it speaks to what I think a lot of us ultimately want in our systems: resolution and detail while not necessarily being so 'true-to-the-source' that lots of recordings of good music are unpalatable.

**the professor** · December 26, 2016, 04:43 PM

My $.02

No. I think that people buy things that work well for the music they listen to currently. Who cares about stuff they don't like to listen to anyway. In my case - I couldn't tell you good country from BAD country. AND don't want to listen enough to tell!!!!

Look at headphones. Which is the biggest part of audio recently. The biggest sellers are what play what the teens/20's year olds are listening to. Not the more natural sounding headphones that would have a better chance to play everything well.

Originally Posted by Mike

Here's what I want to know: Has access to Tidal translated into a change in speaker preferences? With the introduction of Tidal, we now have access to millions of songs across all genres. Will this expand our listening tastes and hence expand our speaker performance requirements?

More than a few times, while listening to an album on Tidal, I've said to myself, "wow, I would never have bought that album, but it's really good!"

Will someone who is seeking out new speakers today, test those speakers to ensure they play all genres well? Does this also mean those speakers which adhere to the BBC design philosophy can't play all genres well? Would you consider an LS3/5a based speaker if you're into rock or broadening your horizons due to Tidal?

Stereophile 1977:

http://www.stereophile.com/standloud...0TCjPuXM1RD.97

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**Mikado463** · December 26, 2016, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by MDP

I think a great speaker plays all genres well!

I know my Salons do

agreed ..........as do my Studio 2's

**puroagave** · December 26, 2016, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by mep

In a perfect world, all really good speakers should be able to play any genre of music and not favor one over another. The more full range your speaker system is, the easier it is to pull this feat off. But, if you own mini-monitors or small two ways, that isn't going to happen. If you own Quad 57s, that isn't going to happen. If you own a pair of speakers with built in bass lift that goes boom in your room, that's not going to happen. On the other hand, even if your speakers can play all genres of music with equal authority, it doesn't mean you want to listen to all genres of music. I don't listen to opera, hillbilly hee haw, or rap, but I think my speakers could pull them all off.

a number of years ago I was selling a pair of quad 57s and the interested party shows up with two CDs, I kid you not, one was Telarc's 1812 overture with cannon shots and Sheffield Labs drum record (whats the point of that?). I thought I was being pranked (literally) the candid camera for audiphiles if such a thing existed. The guy was fresh off the boat and spoke very little english, he really didn't get why I wouldn't play his CDs. I basically told him the speakers were no longer for sale and sent him on his way.

**Melbguy1** · December 26, 2016, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

..But specifically related to the topic, the same ability to play all genres can be said about so many SOTA speakers today, including Wilson, Rockport, Vivid, YG, Vandersteen, etc., etc. It really is a testament to those companies continually pushing the envelope and ultimately, pushing each other.

Mike, slightly

, but don't forget that one of the reasons these companies (like Inifinity Systems in their their heyday) have been so successful is their practice of trickling down design elements and driver technology from their reference speakers to less expensive models, which in turn has created some exceptional value loudspeakers that compete with speakers well above their price point. The classic Infinity Renaissance 90's, Magico S1 Mk2, Vandersteen Treo CT & Quatro Wood CT & Joseph Audio Profile come to mind, just to name a few

.

**Rob181** · December 26, 2016, 09:03 PM

Mike...where do/did the Avantgardes fit in the reproduction of all genres...

**Mike** · December 26, 2016, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Rob181

Mike...where do/did the Avantgardes fit in the reproduction of all genres...

Absolute perfection. They do classical even better than the Strads, so much so, that my client sold his Strads to buy Trios. Absolutely mind blowing for rock and everything in between. Hopefully those who were at my event in October will weigh in.

But horns aren't for everyone. Some tell me "I love them Mike, but they are too much of a leap of faith for me." The look? Their size? The fact that they require a different approach from cables, amps and source perspective? All of the above?

They will also show deficiencies in your power too. They are so revealing that they won't let you get away with anything. Every weak link with be exposed. You can't just plop your Avantgardes with your Hegel amp, Nordost cables and Meitner DAC and expect great results.

BUT, if you are prepared to do what's required (cables, amp, source, room treatment, proper setup - preferably from Mr. Avantgarde himself; Jim Smith and power, etc), you will be rewarded in spades.

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**joeinid** · December 26, 2016, 09:23 PM

Mike,

Ayre + Avantgardes = ?

Thoughts?

**Mike** · December 26, 2016, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Mike,

Ayre + Avantgardes = ?

Thoughts?

I still need to try. But I bet, very good.

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**Randy Myers** · December 26, 2016, 10:20 PM

Well, as a person who sat out for 20+ years and then jumped back in I have maybe a different perspective. First off I find that I enjoy a lot of music now that I would not have even looked at before... also, a lot of the music I used to enjoy I find just does not hold up for me now. Old ears

...

What was important back then still seems to be important now... speakers that perform their best at what I enjoy to listen to the most...

I have never liked horns and large bass drivers... great for knocking the walls down and big parties... but who is kidding who, I am not living in the 1970's any more... I most enjoy monitor type speakers.. imaging, sound stage, accuracy... and the room has huge affects on sound... I was thinking I need a big sub... moved the baby REL into the corner... wow, gives all the "extra" bass I could want...

To me, bottom line, I want speakers that excel in what I enjoy the most, if they handle other music, cool, but who cares, I don't give a rats ass about that music anyway

...

**Dguitarnut** · December 26, 2016, 10:56 PM

When I was in college 40 years ago I would have given my left nut for a pair of Altec Voice of the theater speakers even though I settled for the then state of the art Janzen electrostatics. Explains my moderate loss of hearing huh.

**chops** · December 27, 2016, 01:13 AM

I strongly believe that in order to have speakers that can "handle" all types of music, you also have to have equipment that is up to the job as well.

Compared to other members systems on this site, my system is extremely modest at best. With that being said, I chose the gear that I have because they are all well known for being neutral sounding, but also possess other good traits such as a tight, detailed bottom end, natural mids, and crisp, smooth highs. It comes as no surprise that my Martin Logan SL3's are also well known for these same traits.

To help all of this along, having a preamp and amp free of "grain" goes a long way, as well as cables that are also free of grain while remaining neutral. And speaking of the amp, if it's plugged directly into the wall instead of some kind of current limiting device such as a power conditioner, it can deliver it's full power and current to the speakers. And of course, the amp should have enough power to properly drive the speakers to whatever volume level you listen to and then some.

If you have all those traits in the gear alone, and speakers that also match with those same traits, then you "should" be able to play any kind of music through that system and have it sound its best, limited only to the quality of the recording.

I listen to all kinds of music EXCEPT country and rap, and my system does a fabulous job with all of it as far as I'm concerned. It certainly doesn't have many shortcomings. In fact, the only shortcomings my system does have is proper stereo imaging and sound staging, but that's because of the wacky shaped room it's in in this apartment and the fact I only have so much room to work with as far as speaker placement is concerned.

But when it comes to tonality, naturalness and dynamics, I'd have to say this system is pretty good.

**Melbguy1** · December 27, 2016, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by chops

I strongly believe that in order to have speakers that can "handle" all types of music, you also have to have equipment that is up to the job as well.

+ 1

.

**drabbish** · December 27, 2016, 12:00 PM

being great with everything would mean not being the best of one specific thing. its a give and take. I thought my magicos gave the best blend of everything I wanted. I do listen to almost all music. are the S3's the best no but overall they were perfect to me. that being said even the amp's are the same. my SS is awesome at rock and pop and almost everything but I do miss my tubes with classical and jazz.

**jf4828** · March 16, 2017, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

Shouldn't a reference level speaker be able to play all genre well? If not, IMO it shouldn't be regarded as such.

Quite simply NO! Unfortunately recording and mastering is not held constant. On average a certain genre of music trends toward the same sound. Mixing and mastering are usually done on relatively flat monitors in an acoustic space that is drastically different from your listening space. An "audiophile" speaker that is flat better be in a really well treated room or it will sound terrible. Open baffles overcome some of the room interaction issues and can get away with a flatter response in a normal room. Thus the large variety of speakers accomplishing different goals for different users...

**joeinid** · March 16, 2017, 07:29 PM

Welcome to the forum jf, thank you for joining.

**Mikado463** · March 17, 2017, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by jf4828

Unfortunately recording and mastering is not held constant. On average a certain genre of music trends toward the same sound. Mixing and mastering are usually done on relatively flat monitors in an acoustic space that is drastically different from your listening space. An "audiophile" speaker that is flat better be in a really well treated room or it will sound terrible. Open baffles overcome some of the room interaction issues and can get away with a flatter response in a normal room. Thus the large variety of speakers accomplishing different goals for different users...

jf, I agree for the most part but I'll always take a well engineered (flatter response) speaker, for I understand the importance of the environment in which it is placed. I see so many 'pretty' systems posted with little regard to optimal set up / synergy with the room. Given the $$ these folks have invested they are doing their ears an injustice IMO.

Thread: Speakers that handle every genre of music - important?