Roon and Aurender

Projectman said:

Rumor has it Aurender is testing Roon and planning on deploying Roon support in the near future.

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That would be a shocker. If I recall, Aurender claimed that they did not use Roon because their app (Conductor) sounded better. I wonder what changed.

nicoff said:

That would be a shocker. If I recall, Aurender claimed that they did not use Roon because their app (Conductor) sounded better. I wonder what changed.

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Conductor does sound better and people will be able to compare (assuming this moves ahead). Once they hear how inferior roon sounds on the exact same device, they will know that all the fussing for roon is purely cosmetic or operational and not for audio quality.

What changed? Give people what they want. Again, the comparisons will bear out what we found on the Taiko (roon Vs XDMS) and Innuous (Sense Vs Roon).

But hey, there might be functions in roon people are willing to give up sound quality for. Not me.


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I have brought both Aurender (2) and one Innuous product in to A/B in my set-up, neither of them sounded better than Roon.

I'm still waiting for Taiko to plant a flag with their never ending updates and latest devices (switchs, BPS, network card, etc) and XDMS. My head spins. I really want to hear this product when they get the SQ and especially workable Software ready for primetime. It gets a lot of praise.

What does Roon do to the sound that Conductor doesn’t? This doesn’t make sense to me? Any guesses as to why sound from Roon is inferior to other platforms.

nicoff said:

That would be a shocker. If I recall, Aurender claimed that they did not use Roon because their app (Conductor) sounded better. I wonder what changed.

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Mike is right; Conductor does sound better than Roon. Having one does not have to obviate using the other, though, and my guess is that is what Aurender has concluded. For example, it's nice to be able to use Roon for discovering new music, e.g. via Qobuz and being able to use Roon's interface and access to metadata, lyrics, etc. When I find something I like with Roon/Qobuz, I buy the CD or downloadable file, put it on my server, and listen to it from the server. Another application is you can use Roon for listening "casually", having it's streaming function just "play" and pull up related content. If you're in "CLM" (critical listening mode), you can then use the native Conductor app.

Just as an aside, the Lumin app sounds better than Roon, too.

Projectman said:

What does Roon do to the sound that Conductor doesn’t? This doesn’t make sense to me? Any guesses as to why sound from Roon is inferior to other platforms.

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It’s been discussed ad nauseam. It’s not just me. I don’t know of one person in the industry that feels that roon is better sounding than Conductor, Sense, XDMS, Naim app, Lumin app, etc.

Roon is based on a peer to peer network. So much traffic going back and forth creating NOISE. Heavy graphics creating NOISE. The entire software is not designed around the “sound first” principle, it’s designed for features, look, graphics, DSP options, etc.

I absolutely love the way Roon looks. It’s interface is unmatched. It’s ease of use is unparalleled. It’s feature set is off the charts good. However, it’s a major major step down in sound and seemingly getting worse. Have you seen Roon is integrating with more home automation tools now?

The only exception I have found, and this may sound like BS, but the only exception I have found is MSB’s Roon Renderer module. I have no idea what that little computer in the MSB module is doing, but it makes roon sound good, but I still much prefer ProUSB/ProISL/Taiko XDMS. To my ears, nothing tops the Taiko XDMS, not even my Aurender N30SA. That being said, XDMS is still Alpha. When it’s finished and polished, look out!

Just like we’ve seen with DAC’s, the server and software race is in full force. Companies are constantly leap frogging one another. Digital just gets better and better and better. The MSB Select II with the Taiko XDMS is just mind blowing.


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Mike said:

It’s been discussed as nauseam. It’s not just me. I don’t know of one person in the industry that feels that roon is better sounding than Conductor, Sense, XDMS, Naim app, Lumin app, etc.

Roon is based on a peer to peer network. So much traffic going back and forth creating NOISE. Heavy graphics creating NOISE. The entire software is not designed around the “sound first” principle, it’s designed for features, look, graphics, DSP options, etc.

I absolutely love the way Roon looks. It’s interface is unmatched. It’s ease of use is unparalleled. It’s feature set is off the charts good. However, it’s a major major step down in sound and seemingly getting worse. Have you seen Roon is integrating with more home automation tools now?

The only exception I have found, and this may sound like BS, but the only exception I have found is MSB’s Roon Renderer module. I have no idea what that little computer in the MSB module is doing, but it makes roon sound good, but I still much prefer ProUSB/ProISL/Taiko XDMS. To my ears, nothing tops the Taiko XDMS, not even my Aurender N30SA. That being said, XDMS is still Alpha. When it’s finished and polished, look out!

Just like we’ve seen with DAC’s, the server and software race is in full force. Companies are constantly leap frogging one another. Digital just gets better and better and better. The MSB Select II with the Taiko XDMS is just mind blowing.

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Excellent, accurate, and informative post, Mike. I'll add that not only graphics from Roon create noise, but the beautiful color graphics on the full-color, high-bit depth color display screens of Aurender, HiFi Rose streamers, NAD, etc. also results in noise and a discernable degradation in absolute audio quaity. This is easily heard by turning off the full color display on an Aurender, for example, and is also exactly the reason why Lumin (and I presume Linn, as well) does not use these full-color high-bit depth color displays.

I learned about the network “neediness” of Roon a couple of weeks ago. It was enough to disrupt the function of my etherRendu. It took several resets of several boxes to right the ship.

Hard to give up the easy comfort of Roon, particularly with a life time sub.

Is the newest version of Audirvana fitting in this discussion? I’m pretty sure my Bricasti works with Audirvana (Audirvana Ready) I want something that plays library files, and Qobuz, well. As mentioned above, Roon could be used for music discovery and learning.

I wonder how much of Roon needs to be turned off for the network to be clear? Maybe a Roon server on a NUC that actually was turned off when not in use.

Bones13 said:

I learned about the network “neediness” of Roon a couple of weeks ago. It was enough to disrupt the function of my etherRendu. It took several resets of several boxes to right the ship.

Hard to give up the easy comfort of Roon, particularly with a life time sub.

Is the newest version of Audirvana fitting in this discussion? I’m pretty sure my Bricasti works with Audirvana (Audirvana Ready) I want something that plays library files, and Qobuz, well. As mentioned above, Roon could be used for music discovery and learning.

I wonder how much of Roon needs to be turned off for the network to be clear? Maybe a Roon server on a NUC that actually was turned off when not in use.

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It's hard to say, but my guess, as Mike has pointed out is that Roon's expanding "networking overhead" (functions, features, ancillaries, etc) is having an effect. From what I've read about Emile's R&D work on the Taiko Extreme server, it seems that Mike's point that there's so much "network traffic" going back and forth creating NOISE is proving to be quite the culprit. And as he's mentioned, the heavy graphics creating noise, as well. Regarding that, this may be one of the reasons that the Lumin "app" sounds better than Roon, as it's doesn't have any graphical interface at all, it just depicts a playlist of tracks. And, if you're listening to an album in it's entirety, then the minimalist interface of the Lumin app is just fine. From a practical perspective, all one really needs to see is a list of tracks, the one that is currently playing, and a means to go back and forth to select tracks. It's certainly not an issue for me, personally. After all, LPs don't have a big fancy graphical interface, either. Ya just spin 'em up and listen!

with the Wadax Reference dac and server, Roon is hard wired into the operating system. Wadax has taken that approach from the beginning of Roon. i think that gives Roon a big boost in sound quality.

do they have any secret Roon sauce? nothing i'm aware of. but it would not surprise me.

i know what i heard 2 years ago when i directly compared the Wadax combo and the MSB Select II and Taiko Extreme in my system. today we have the MSB Digital Director plus the advances of the Extreme switch and the improved music software. so i can't say how the delta might be different. but it was quite profound back then.

the great thing to me is getting superb performance with the Roon interface advantages makes my digital listening experience a pleasure.

Also wondering if Grimm with their MU1 may have been more successful than most in managing Roon's impact on SQ.

The challenge for those companies solely relying on roon is that you’re not in control of the software. You’re at their whim - good or bad. The taiko/aurender/Innuos/lumin, etc approach, IMO, will yield far better sonic results - especially in the long term as roon continues down their path of custom installation/smart home path.

Again, I’m not a roon hater. Nothing comes close to roon for looks, function or features - nothing. I wish roon sounded as good as it looks. That’s all.


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interesting...I'll switch from my Pro USB input to the Network Renderer later today and give that a listen...Haven't tried the Renderer in years

Of course with the Digital Director installed, the S II dac is now in a different league entirely....

GSOphile said:

Also wondering if Grimm with their MU1 may have been more successful than most in managing Roon's impact on SQ.

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Interesting that Grimm, after making such a strong commitment to Roon via Roon integration, looks like they're backing off a bit. This from their MU1 website description:
"For customers who prefer to only run a simple playback system without Roon’s extras, we will offer a solid alternative."