Thread: Reviewer Rooms

You do realize the room logic being fluxed about is both flawed and ironic .... just saying ,,,,




regards ..

I thought if you placed a component for 8 weeks in such a room you could analyse it

Originally Posted by mep

No, that would be you and Ron on a drive-by listening session.

No, I average out across many rooms in multiple set ups, in fact, owners of the equipment email back to say how spot on I have got the gear attributes.

Mep,

Errr,

I think Bonzo gave his personal reference as live music and for STEREO, it's MikeL system, , Well I think that's what he said on his blog where he records his trips and voices his "opinion" and BTW, it doesn't take much if your pretty keen really, why in 2 or 3 mins i can tell your a Reviewer, but not just any kind, my keen senses say fascist reviewer on steroids ...


Errr, just saying ......


Regards ...

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

I still have vivid memories/observations of calling on Harry Pearson & Gordon Holt for the first time in the '70s - when I worked for ARC. Since they have passed, there's no need to put it all out there. Let's just say that each was an appalling experience for me, as I had followed both of them closely for years...

Went up to Harry Pearson in the 80's, so i kinda get what you are saying ....


But i have to admit, i have heard some of the best hi-fi in really , really what one describe as bad rooms , very crowded and lived in ....

You just made my point , no one is asking you to leave, so why drag the others in after taking a dig at Bonzo , then Ron, who is not even here ..


They only giving their opinion, not writing a prescription ........

It's fascinating to see the rooms that reviewers live with on a day to day basis. This tends to hold especially true when the reviewer in question has a proven degree of influence.

That said, I'm not one of those people who judge a reviewer based on the gear they own or the room that they're in. So long as they... 1) Know what the heck they're talking about, 2) Are capable of breaking down the performance of a product in a way that's easy to understand, and 3) Are able to consistently deliver accurate assessments.. then well, that's good enough for me!

If it takes someone 8 weeks to tease out small differences, what's the point of upgrading?!?!? Pop the component in, and if you can't tell it's great or sucks within a couple of songs, you are in the wrong hobby. Just watch a musician-audiophile in action... some of these guys can tell in 30-45 seconds if a remastering is better or if a component is worth your time

5 mins tops to tell if its any good and 8 weeks writing the fluff ....

Originally Posted by mep

Thanks Jim. I really appreciate that.

Whoa Tiger!-- you don't get away with all the laurels-- we don't want two respected members leaving also if they feel they are being disrespected here
You may like to offer a friendly "I was a tad over the top guys--apology maybe??"

There is room for all on this bus--so stay aboard

Bruce

Boogieman,

On one hand, I'm inclined to agree with the gist of your statement. It shouldn't take a decade to figure out whether or not something makes an impact. On the other hand, closing the book on something after a 30 to 40 second demo isn't exactly advisable either. In fact, this is the exact behavior that leads to buyers remorse. Usually the one thing that initially thrilled the listener becomes the very thing that they end up hating the most about the component. Of course, there are plenty of people who remain just as thrilled - but I'm sure you get where I'm coming from.

Originally Posted by Zero

Boogieman,

On one hand, I'm inclined to agree with the gist of your statement. It shouldn't take a decade to figure out whether or not something makes an impact. On the other hand, closing the book on something after a 30 to 40 second demo isn't exactly advisable either. In fact, this is the exact behavior that leads to buyers remorse. Usually the one thing that initially thrilled the listener becomes the very thing that they end up hating the most about the component. Of course, there are plenty of people who remain just as thrilled - but I'm sure you get where I'm coming from.

Sir, you make a lot of sense. But I believe the ultimate arbiter on happiness in your gear is depends how much self-confidence you have in what you like or don't like.

Originally Posted by a.wayne

5 mins tops to tell if its any good and 8 weeks writing the fluff ....

Yes, 5 minutes makes a lot of sense. And I think it's a lot shorter for guys like music teachers, who listen to music and sound many hours, every day for most of their lives... Goodness, how long would it take the universally-admired Jim Smith to get his job done if it took him 8 hours to assess every little action he took?

I guess where I don't follow you, Sir, and maybe I'm lost - is why it would take anyone 8 weeks to write something up? Hop online and share with your friends right away! Why wait?

Originally Posted by Bruce

Whoa Tiger!-- you don't get away with all the laurels-- we don't want two respected members leaving also if they feel they are being disrespected here
You may like to offer a friendly "I was a tad over the top guys--apology maybe??"

There is room for all on this bus--so stay aboard

Bruce

I agree.

Mark, your original post was totally unnecessary and derisive.

Originally Posted by rbbert

I must have missed something? if you are referring to mep, his visible posts in this topic have been concise and accurate, IMO.

No they haven't. Ron and I don't go about for a few hour sessions to review. In fact, he and I have been together for only two trips. One was to the Avantgarde factory, which was my second trip there, and I also made one to another room to check different room perspective, across 5 amps - much better than reviewing in only one room size of the ones posted on the thread. I hope you understand that one room is limited by size and budget of the owner, while if you go across rooms things are already set up in different ways with different gears and different room sizes.

2. We never called it a review. You guys post on forums, I post on a blog and put the link across forums. Easier than uploading pics across all forums separately. Are you guys going to stop putting perspectives on forums?

3. You are a reader. You don’t have to make it competitive and choose to read one, you can read both. They are additive. You can get things from all. Just like you get from people who post about a listening session here. Just because I have a website, you don't have to choose between me and a subscription to one of your magazines

4. MEP brought out things about reference systems, 2 together few hour sessions, which were not true at all. Before I wrote on Luxman, I went to Joel (6 moon’s reviewer) room, listened to a carefully set up Luxman system on Vivid G1, compared it to Ypsilon Aelius. A few months later compared Luxman to Viola Symphony on TAD CR1. Then compared Luxman to Gryphon Mephisto in a 3^rd system (and separately compared Gryphon Colosseum to Burmester 956, and then started a whole Burmester chain, etc etc). After a chain is complete, I write – it is not at all I went to this room and oh wow, what an amp. In my write-ups, I link to other reviews (whether by PF, Roy Gregory, etc etc), and to some forum threads, so people can have a one stop shop to do research. So, it is a completely different approach.

5. Finally, going to 40 concerts a year unlike MEP helps (did not see a single classical piece in his VPI review). And, here's the thing - till I had my previous systems, my learning always suffered, because reference would get reset to the system at home. Since I sold it, I unlearned the wrong sounds, and references changed, and I became more open minded. FYI, I had Martin Logan Summits with AR Ref 3 and Ref 110, and have compared Ref 10 to Koda K10, Ref 5SE to Aries Cerat, and to NAT audio. I also had Verity Audio Leonores with Jadis, VAC 30/30, and had top of the line NAT Audio for audition at home, and owned an Ayon Orthos XS 150 (300w triode, 400w pentode), that I kept on my friend's Apogees for my own reference.

You could read further perspectives of mine here. You can choose to agree or disagree, but it is not a there is only one or none approach.

http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...l=1#post194847
http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...l=1#post194854

Originally Posted by rbbert

Read your post again. First, you say you review; then, you say you never called it a review? And if it's not a review, then why make a comment about reviewers, who (if you your logic is sound) are doing something totally different than what you are doing?

Sorry, I did not even start this thread...which was a comment about reviewers. Yes, You can choose or not to disagree with reviewer. I don't agree with many of them, who have small rooms for equipment they review. That has always been the case, and there are many like me.

Originally Posted by rbbert

This I can certainly agree with. I also agree that a good reviewer has a tough task to perform, regardless of whether I agree with the result.

To start with, how many here actually understand the reviewers? Let's all pick the reviewers we read regularly. Do you guys know their background (audiophile background), preferences, tastes, how they evolved - so that you can benchmark/caiibrate your tastes to theirs?

Originally Posted by rbbert

Isn't a review a bit (LOL) more than telling whether a component is any good or not? A lot of what's out there (probably most of it) is "good", in fact much is excellent; is that all a review is supposed to tell you?

Wandering around to different rooms and systems is certainly enjoyable and worthwhile, but OTOH likely pretty worthless at reviewing the sound and capabilities of any individual component, which is what audio reviews are generally about.

Yes and No,

Reviewer 1:

Has a room full of Diffusors in a well designed room, how does that review tells you what any product will sound like in your listening/ living room.

Reviewer 2:

Has a poorly treated room and worse , it's full of clutter , how do you know if it will sound good in your newly treated SMT room ...

Reviewer 3:

Has everything reviewer 1 has plus he did all kind of gnd /panel/wiring schema plus battery supplies , how does this apply to you in your standard room with standard commercial wiring ..

Fact is the fully cluttered room may have the same decay and refraction as a well treated room , then there's reviewer biases, et al ...


IMO, What's important is how well do you know the reviewer and his biases , if you have a lot in common the review will be important to you , if not , the information provided is just more info for you to research deeper into a product you are researching...

Again , for me, I like to see multiple Subjective opinions on reviews , products being reviewed by one reviewer tells me nothing , with SP and others who test , there's both subjective and objective Reviews , these do tell a lot ...

Regards ..

Originally Posted by Boogieman

Yes, 5 minutes makes a lot of sense. And I think it's a lot shorter for guys like music teachers, who listen to music and sound many hours, every day for most of their lives... Goodness, how long would it take the universally-admired Jim Smith to get his job done if it took him 8 hours to assess every little action he took?

I guess where I don't follow you, Sir, and maybe I'm lost - is why it would take anyone 8 weeks to write something up? Hop online and share with your friends right away! Why wait?

It was tongue in cheek sir, LOL....


But with some products you can tell in 5 mins with experience , tweaking it to acceptability may require another 3-18 months thou, as the reviewer has to be fair to the product by investigating every angle ...


Regards ...

Originally Posted by CPP

I tell ya those that complain about people that actually take the time to review a product of any kind need to actually try a review for themselves and publish it and then wait for the comments.

Agree, But it was a reviewer complaining about another reviewer ....




The Irony ....

Originally Posted by KeithR

I give reviewers the greatest importance who cater towards my taste in gear and in particular, music.

For instance, a jazz addict like Jack Roberts isn't a particularly good comp for me. Nor are guys who only listen to SS behemoths and never review tube gear.

Well, my blog is just designed for someone to follow an audiophile's journey, with easy access to preferences in gear and tastes, and how the gear search has evolved. Write-ups have links to other reviews to form a compendium. And as people keep reading and listen to some of that gear, somewhere they will be able to calibrate to the tastes and decide if they want to ride along. The emphasis is heavily classical as I believe in putting in 50 acoustic instruments through a component to test how it resolves complexity, and put in other acoustic instruments to check tone.

Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield

Mandatory for me to even begin to take someones opinion seriously.
Where is your blog?

Zero-distortion.org

the following pic is of Robert E Greene's listening room (Aka "REG") he was an esteemed writer for TAS during their heyday. I particularly like the attention paid to acoustic treatment of the ceiling. His speaker stands must really bring out all the salient qualities those Spendors can muster...and who needs a component rack, it will only serve to muck up the sound, just stack 'em. turntable isolation? that's for noobs, i'll just repurpose this ol' record rack as a TT stand.