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  1. #1
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    As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    From my last thread,
    Shadowfax "Here are a few I would like to hear as demos anywhere as opposed to a single female voice"
    Please change setting to 1080P for better audio quality.



    As an update from my last thread, I end up mixing 2 different sounds speakers.



    Enjoy!!
    Alex
    Wavetouch audio

  2. #2
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    I am posting new videos below. The fine tuning of left speaker in above video was little off. I am sorry for messy posts!
    1080p setting sounds better.



    Alex / Wavetouch

  3. #3
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Due to copyright issue, Jeff Kollman is cut.


  4. #4
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Well done, nice to hear some demos with actual music and layering of instruments. Any decent system can make one female voice or one instrument sound decent.
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  5. #5
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Shadowfax
    Well done, nice to hear some demos with actual music and layering of instruments. Any decent system can make one female voice or one instrument sound decent.

    I agree. I wish I hear same tracks on other live recordings. So, I can hear how my system is doing. One thing I am sure is my set up sounds musical with no veil. I watch many other videos of 6 digit figure systems and they all veiled if not broken sound. The veiled sound means the signal is broken. Almost systems sound forward but the real human voice is thin/empty and way behind of sound stage. At least, my set up (1/50 of their price and effort to set up) sounds more real than almost of them.

    Please list your music here if you want to hear it with my setup.
    Best,
    Alex / Wavetouch

    **The copyright issue was with Keb Mo songs. Jeff Kollman is OK. Change setting to 1080p.



    Original video. downloaded and playing above

  6. #6
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Thanks again Wave- I don't know why people choose not to show what a system can really do. Some speakers fall apart when there are many instruments competing together. Thats probably why they choose to just play Dianna Krall so they avoid a real demo.

    Try the track called The Message off of 3 Flew over the Cuckoos Nest by Bela Fleck. It is mostly Victor Wooten but this track should pop out of your speakers.
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel RCD-1572 / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Fyne Audio F502SPs > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Tara Labs Cables


  7. #7

    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Wavetouch,

    If you have something to sell and you want to sell it, forget about "real music" and demonstrate your system to its full potential, that is to say, use the best recordings you can find and don't fall into the trap of trying the impossible that is extracting an excellent sound from bad recordings. A lot of pop/rock music doesn't have enough quality to shine and make the most of the best electronica and best speakers that are made today. And, although I myself was a fan of Deep Purple, Whitesnake, Iron Maiden and other heavy rock and roll in my youth, the truth is that I would never demonstrate a system with most of the music of that time. I often prefer to go back in time and listen to some recordings from the 50s and experience the verisimilitude of a big band accompanying, for example, Nat King Cole. Today, excellent recordings are made, but the truth is that many of them are found in not so commercial songs (what some call "audiophile music" - as if that even exists!) because their creators are more interested in exploring new sounds and limits never before daring with certain instruments and therefore, the quality of the capture, the tone, the dynamic nuances, everything counts for the final result they intend to obtain. Don't let yourself fall into this trap of bad recordings. In fact listening to your videos seems to me that you are on the right path, but it is not by listening your first music video that I come to that conclusion.

    Cheers

    Does old music benefit from high end audio? - YouTube

  8. #8
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Shadowfax
    Try the track called The Message off of 3 Flew over the Cuckoos Nest by Bela Fleck. It is mostly Victor Wooten but this track should pop out of your speakers.
    There is a copyright issue with Bela Fleck. Ytube is blocking the video. Thank you for the nice track tho!

    I found this track while I look for Bela Fleck. Forty Two by Ian Shaw. Try 1080p setting for better audio.



    Alex / Wavetouch

  9. #9
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Spock
    forget about "real music" and demonstrate your system to its full potential, that is to say, use the best recordings you can find and don't fall into the trap of trying the impossible that is extracting an excellent sound from bad recordings.

    I often prefer to go back in time and listen to some recordings from the 50s and experience the verisimilitude of a big band accompanying, for example, Nat King Cole.
    Thank you for your excellent advise! I'll explore deeper about older and great recordings include Nat King Cole.
    Best,
    Alex / Wavetouch

  10. #10
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    Wavetouch,

    If you have something to sell and you want to sell it, forget about "real music" and demonstrate your system to its full potential, that is to say, use the best recordings you can find and don't fall into the trap of trying the impossible that is extracting an excellent sound from bad recordings. A lot of pop/rock music doesn't have enough quality to shine and make the most of the best electronica and best speakers that are made today. And, although I myself was a fan of Deep Purple, Whitesnake, Iron Maiden and other heavy rock and roll in my youth, the truth is that I would never demonstrate a system with most of the music of that time. I often prefer to go back in time and listen to some recordings from the 50s and experience the verisimilitude of a big band accompanying, for example, Nat King Cole. Today, excellent recordings are made, but the truth is that many of them are found in not so commercial songs (what some call "audiophile music" - as if that even exists!) because their creators are more interested in exploring new sounds and limits never before daring with certain instruments and therefore, the quality of the capture, the tone, the dynamic nuances, everything counts for the final result they intend to obtain. Don't let yourself fall into this trap of bad recordings. In fact listening to your videos seems to me that you are on the right path, but it is not by listening your first music video that I come to that conclusion.

    Cheers


    Hi, Spock. I kinda' think a bit opposite in this regard. I think a playback system's real potential for better or worse can be found in many a 40 or 50-year old recording. Is not one of our main missions to improve a less-than-fabulous playback system such that more and more inferior recordings sound more superior or more musical with each system alteration? Especially when playback volume is much closer to live music volume levels? Our ears and our interpretation of what we hear can instinctually tell us if something sounds more or less natural aka more or less musical/believeable.

    IOW, these older / less-than-stellar-engineered recordings can sometimes help us cut right to the chase whether or not we're on the right path in our endeavors. Especially when played back at/near live music volume levels in the listening room or even here. Seriously, the tell-tale sign that good things are happening is when your desire to run outta' the room diminishes with each genuine improvement.
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more Iím convinced itís all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, itís all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

  11. #11

    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Hi Stehno,

    Iīm with you. But, my point is, if I understand correctly, Wavetouch wants (or is trying to) enter the market. So, in my opinion, it's a little different.
    If I had an 8k TV to sell, I would never demonstrate it with a VHS movie!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    Especially when playback volume is much closer to live music volume levels? Our ears and our interpretation of what we hear can instinctually tell us if something sounds more or less natural aka more or less musical/believeable.
    Thatīs it!

  12. #12
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    Hi Stehno,

    Iīm with you. But, my point is, if I understand correctly, Wavetouch wants (or is trying to) enter the market. So, in my opinion, it's a little different.
    If I had an 8k TV to sell, I would never demonstrate it with a VHS movie!!!
    Understood. I'm sorry I was not more clear. Yes, I hopefully implied that this would include demo's. Not many are willing to test if their systems are capable of such feats. IOW, it kinda' cuts to the chase. Playing poorly-engineered recordings that includes some forms of dynamics and/or potential distortion-induced-breakup i.e. a somewhat torturous piece that makes other exhibitors cringe when you ask them to play it at a show but you play it with confidence. Oh, and of course listening volumes near/at live music volume levels is in some ways the ultimate test.

    Again, our ears are quite effective at discerning natural from unnatural sounds. Maybe The Who or Eddie Van Halen ain't somebody's cup of tea, but it can sure make quite an impact if one had their system's ducks in a row.

    The way I view this topic and provided the product being promoted is worth its weight sonically is... every last playback system is less than perfect as is every last recording. So if our goal toward system improvements is, enhance the playback system so it's a tad closer toward perfection then as a result, shouldn't larger quantities of less-than-perfect recordings sound more musical?



    Not to hi-jack this thread but this was the piece I had in mind when I posted last night. However, at the last minute I suspected others might misinterpret what I meant. So I went with something a bit more gentle.

    Anyway, crank this all the way up and just past the halfway mark it'll start taking you toward some edge of tolerability - but hopefully still in a somewhat tolerable and musical sense.

    Hopefully, this video better substantiates my point and in perhaps a somewhat fun/interesting way. Like in some ways, it's perhaps a bit more over-the-top than The Who or Van Halen. IOW, why would I demo a Bach Sonata that everybody else is demo'ing (at half volume) when I could demo this Donovan piece at/near live music volume levels?
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more Iím convinced itís all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, itís all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

  13. #13

    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    .. Maybe The Who or Eddie Van Halen ain't somebody's cup of tea, but it can sure make quite an impact if one had their system's ducks in a row.
    Well, there it is. If I had something to sell, I would try to appeal to a larger potential group of buyers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    So if our goal toward system improvements is, enhance the playback system so it's a tad closer toward perfection then as a result, shouldn't larger quantities of less-than-perfect recordings sound more musical?
    I return to the "image" I used earlier. I, as a SELLER, would not seek to sell an 8k television with a VHS movie. The buyer must know the true potential of what he is buying. Although, later at home, he can even watch movies in black and white...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    IOW, why would I demo a Bach Sonata that everybody else is demo'ing (at half volume) when I could demo this Donovan piece at/near live music volume levels?
    Around 2005 / 2006 there was a very active Portuguese audio forum where I participated. At the time, there were already skeptics about cables and tweaks, and one of them in particular, in the midst of a lot of things that I still don't agree with, used to say something that stuck with me till today and seems to be quite correct. He said that audio fidelity was/is timbre fidelity! I, who at the time was trying to solve the problem of compression and distortion (of the system), replied that without this it would not be possible to simulate the real sound, because if the system sounds compressed and without dynamics (and this is what I hear most even today, in stores, audio shows and even friends' systems), it is not possible to raise the volume to levels close to the real sound, essential for the "reconstruction" that we so much desire in our living room. Today, with these problems solved, I still need to solve the timbre issue. But to get the timbre right you need the reference from acoustic instruments. Hence the reason to play the Bach sonata in a demonstration! The only thing wrong would be playing it at half volume!!

    Your videos are very impressive!

    Cheers!

  14. #14
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    Well, there it is. If I had something to sell, I would try to appeal to a larger potential group of buyers.



    I return to the "image" I used earlier. I, as a SELLER, would not seek to sell an 8k television with a VHS movie. The buyer must know the true potential of what he is buying. Although, later at home, he can even watch movies in black and white...



    Around 2005 / 2006 there was a very active Portuguese audio forum where I participated. At the time, there were already skeptics about cables and tweaks, and one of them in particular, in the midst of a lot of things that I still don't agree with, used to say something that stuck with me till today and seems to be quite correct. He said that audio fidelity was/is timbre fidelity! I, who at the time was trying to solve the problem of compression and distortion (of the system), replied that without this it would not be possible to simulate the real sound, because if the system sounds compressed and without dynamics (and this is what I hear most even today, in stores, audio shows and even friends' systems), it is not possible to raise the volume to levels close to the real sound, essential for the "reconstruction" that we so much desire in our living room. Today, with these problems solved, I still need to solve the timbre issue. But to get the timbre right you need the reference from acoustic instruments. Hence the reason to play the Bach sonata in a demonstration! The only thing wrong would be playing it at half volume!!

    Your videos are very impressive!

    Cheers!
    Understood about where you're coming from. Yeah, audio shows have an 83 or 86 db limit or they'll throw you out. But is that really high-end audio? I exhibited at a handful of shows back when my technology was very much in its infancy and I'd put something like this on and ask the audience if they'd like to hear it cranked up. And they always said yes, so I'd crank to about 103 or 104 avg db - after shutting the door to the room of course.

    As for the timbre quote you provided. My experience tells me that our systems' greatest enemy by far is the electrically-induced much rasied noise floor threshold. Essentially it's the culmination of all electrically-induced distortions (audible and inaudible). And in comparison very little else matters. If that is true, then it's not timbre, nor warmth, tonality, harmonics, etc, etc,.

    It's every last sonic characteristic across the board or the entire presentation that's adjusted every time the noise floor threshold is adjusted. Sure some may for some reason focus on timbre or tonality only but I can assure you that if we're hearing more accurate timbre, we're hearing more of everything else too - whether we realize it or not. Simply because our electrically-induced noise floor is universal across the spectrum and hence electronics cannot discriminate between sonic characteristics.

    So when it comes to the system's noise floor threshold, we don't improve one sonic characteristic at a time as that's generally impossible. We simply lower the universal noise floor threshold and more of music info read from the recording universally remains audible at the speaker. Again, it's a universal across the spectrum thing. Presuming it's a genuine improvement of course.

    IME, anyway. And thanks.
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more Iím convinced itís all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, itís all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

  15. #15

    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post

    As for the timbre quote you provided. My experience tells me that our systems' greatest enemy by far is the electrically-induced much rasied noise floor threshold. And in comparison very little else matters. If that is true, then it's not timbre, nor warmth, tonality, harmonics, etc, etc,.

    It's every last sonic characteristic across the board or the entire presentation that's adjusted every time the noise floor threshold is adjusted.
    Totally agree! But things can't be simplified to that point (which isn't simple at all as we both know ). This is because many audio pieces (namely speakers) have their own sonic signature and a deviation from the original timbre, which will never be corrected by the simple treatment of electricity and/or vibrations.
    So, IMHO, timbre alone may well be the ultimate focus of our audio attention.


  16. #16
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Hi Stehno,
    Thank you for posting your live recording videos! They are wonderful. Every good audio systems have their strength. We can hear what are the strength of our systems here. I hope you don't mind to put your video here which you posted above. For orig video, please start from 4:00.

    Original recording


    Wavetouch live recording (downloaded and playing above Ytube video)


    Stehno's audio live recording


    Cheers,
    Alex/Wavetouch

  17. #17
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Spock
    I often prefer to go back in time and listen to some recordings from the 50s and experience the verisimilitude of a big band accompanying, for example, Nat King Cole.
    I recorded Fascination/Nat King Cole this morning. I'll post more oldies when I have more time.
    Best,
    Alex/Wavetouch

    Orignal Ytube video


    Download and palying above MP4 video


  18. #18
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Wavetouch audio live recording. Downloaded and playing above video. Setting must 1080p.

    Cheers,
    Alex

  19. #19
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Hi Stehno,
    Thank you for posting your live recording videos! They are wonderful. Every good audio systems have their strength. We can hear what are the strength of our systems here. I hope you don't mind to put your video here which you posted above.

    Wavetouch live recording (downloaded and playing below Youtube video). Setting must 1080p.


    Original recording. Please start from 3:50.


    Stehno's audio live recording. "Watch in 2160p for best audio q'ty."

    Cheers,
    Alex

  20. #20
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavetouch View Post
    Hi Stehno,
    Thank you for posting your live recording videos! They are wonderful. Every good audio systems have their strength. We can hear what are the strength of our systems here. I hope you don't mind to put your video here which you posted above.

    Wavetouch live recording (downloaded and playing below Youtube video). Setting must 1080p.


    Original recording. Please start from 3:50.


    Stehno's audio live recording. "Watch in 2160p for best audio q'ty."

    Cheers,
    Alex
    Hi, Alex. Good job grabbing the official? recordings for comparisions. An excellent reference for comparing our own recordings to the original or official release.

    Not only does it help us understand how much work we've yet to go on our playback systems but also how much work we may have to do on our listening rooms.

    Thanks for sharing.
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more Iím convinced itís all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, itís all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

  21. #21
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Stehno
    Hi, Alex. Good job grabbing the official? recordings for comparisions. An excellent reference for comparing our own recordings to the original or official release.

    Not only does it help us understand how much work we've yet to go on our playback systems but also how much work we may have to do on our listening rooms.

    Thanks for sharing.
    Thank you for your kind words and understanding!
    You are right. We have a long way to go.
    Alex / Wavetouch

    Wavetouch live recording (downloaded and playing below Youtube video). Setting must 1080p.

    Original recording. Donovan - Official Audio


    Stehno's audio live recording. "Watch in 2160p for best audio q'ty."

  22. #22

    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Maybe yes, maybe no.

    Despite everything, the video gives an idea but it is not the same as listening live. I'd rather listen to any music on my system than listen to it on headphones.

    We have to discount the "room" effect that is very noticeable in our videos. Which can be "softened" a bit with a near field shooting (by the way i donīt like to hear in near field).
    And we can also look for better video cameras.

  23. #23

    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Brothers in Darkness.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  24. #24
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Spock
    We have to discount the "room" effect that is very noticeable in our videos.
    Audiophile Junkie (Ytube ID) recorded many rooms at the Home Entertainment show (2022) with a same recorder. In my room (#407) the human voice and audio sound are at same tone and timber. Wavetouch (WT) audio sound is very close to real sound (people's voice).


    In other rooms by AJ recorder, the human voice and audio sound are very different. In below video, human voices (from 5:00) sound real and feel nice. When the music starts from 7:50, the audio sounds so much different from the human voice. It sounds veiled and makes me feel very uncomfortable. All other rooms sound veiled like this and vocals are far back of soundstage regardless of price.


    I exhibit at Long Beach audio show every year and I heard almost every rooms (also keep looking in Ytube). And I haven't heard any thing better in faithful reproduction. Yes. Some systems are impressive with the bass or unrealistic smooth sound (*still with veil). But they are soon to be boring because they are all sound with veil (not musical) and vocals are too far.

    The best reproduction sound is generating the original sound and WT does it better than any other audio reproduction system. WT power cord makes it possible.
    Alex/Wavetouch

  25. #25

    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavetouch View Post
    Yes. Some systems are impressive with the bass or unrealistic smooth sound (*still with veil). But they are soon to be boring because they are all sound with veil (not musical) and vocals are too far.
    I get your point.
    Very noticeable in the video(s)!

  26. #26
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Spock
    I get your point.
    Very noticeable in the video(s)!
    These are less noticeable. Though their big soundstages are veil or noise and nothing do with music.
    Alex/Wavetouch

    Download below video and playing.


    Original ytube video.





  27. #27

    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Well... these 2 last videos are real not enlightening.
    In the Borrensen recording it seems to me that there is a phase problem (the sound appears with a large slope on the right side) and in the Wilson recordings, to be honest, I don't detect any veil...

  28. #28
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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    Spock
    these 2 last videos are real not enlightening.
    in the Wilson recordings, to be honest, I don't detect any veil...
    I won't say about their sound. It might influence your hearing. I suggest to open 3 separate windows of original, WT and Wilson videos. Click the title in video to open a new window. Set them in 1080p. And listen to them in same volume. You might hear purity and naturalness of sound in them.
    Alex/Wavetouch

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    Re: As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

    *The copyright issue was with Keb Mo songs. Jeff Kollman is OK.

    Wavetouch Live recording


    Original video downloaded and playing above

    Alex/Wavetouch

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As promised, live recording from my audio set up (same set up at Long Beach audio show 2022)

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