Thread: Posting Prices Publicly

If Rolex and Patek Phillipe can post prices, methinks tiny audio companies can.

Simple solution, list the prices in each country you sell in, or allow each country rep to post the price for that country. If you have to waste your time as well as someone like Mike's time just to find out something is out of your league, well it's a dis-service to the consumer and the seller.

The only reason I can think of that makes sense is that most people don't pay List Price, and the sales people can sell the same item to 10 people all at different prices.

I would prefer to not have to dig through multiple reviews and pages or make a call just to know the price.

I find it rather silly, not to post prices. Almost insulting. Post them $$$$

I emailed the Accuphase canadian distributor a couple of years ago for a price and he would’t tell me and said to contact a dealer… His whole reply was longer than just typing the damn price! I believe that distributor had 2 B&M stores as well (which closed since then). I didn’t bother since I thought If It is that complicated getting something as simple as a price from the horse’s mouth, I can only imagine the rest… Not a good first impression at all. I mean, I wasn’t asking for KFC secret recipe for gawd sake!

Accuphase changed distributor in Canada this year and yet the same shenanigans applies still. Because of the American distributor, Canadian dealers and ecommerce cannot post prices online. It is somewhat insulting for canadians TBH and the new distributor should tell AXISS to f*** off!

Bottom line, it doesn’t reflects well at all on Accuphase and I personally probably never will buy Accuphase because of all the monkey business. Too many choices out there to bother with all that crap! Luxman and Esoteric should rejoice. Luxman sure did the right thing by becoming their own distributor in north america.

It’s 2020 with the internet and a global view of the world at your fingertips 24/7, that type of mindset is very old and outdated… In this day and age of instagram your every thoughts and feelings, people with exclusive goods sure wants you to know how much they pay for their toys…

Maybe It’s just me, but If I have to Google for 10 minutes to get a price, i move along to other brands… That’s the entitled western way of doing things after all and I am not even american!!!

Serious audio type buyers should already know what the MSRP is. That's called "due diligence".

Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison

Question...how is one supposed to do this "due diligence" if the MSRP's are NOT being disclosed??

Osmosis?


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Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison

Question...how is one supposed to do this "due diligence" if the MSRP's are NOT being disclosed??

Exactly... this is the point, people trying to do their due diligence prior to calling a dealer and wasting their time to ask what the price is instead of already having an idea prior to calling.

Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison

Question...how is one supposed to do this "due diligence" if the MSRP's are NOT being disclosed??

What reputable manufacturers don't disclose MSRP either on line or via phone contact? And if they don't and given all the choices available to the consumer, why would any informed buyer be interested in their product? Almost sounds like a drug deal in a dark alley.

Originally Posted by Pearce Harrison

Question...how is one supposed to do this "due diligence" if the MSRP's are NOT being disclosed??

Same way you figure out how to get around getting booted off of audio forums by returning under another name and another IP address?

Originally Posted by bzr

osm-moron I'm thinking

Are you talking about me?

I tend to look for MSRP in reviews.

Sometimes it is not even a matter of deciding if I want to purchase something; instead maybe decided if I might be interested or at what level in the lineup I might be interested in. It just seems silly to ask, how much is this one, ok, how much is this one, ok, and this one... if I knew the pricing a head of time I might still call the dealer but with more pointed questions about a product or two. It just seems like not only a waste of the dealers time but also mine. I would not ask about other models and my questions would be more well thought out if I had been able to narrow the list down a head of time.

Originally Posted by puroagave

Yeah but try buying a SS sports model from either brand at list, you'll be on a wait list for a year or longer. then there is the resale market, no waiting but you will pay a premium. you can never say that about any piece of audio gear. With my luck I'll be on vacay with no cell service when my AD calls and says he has a steel Aquanaut in stock, its mine if I call him back ASAP

Ok, obviously I do not understand. I like a decent watch but what the hell. I saw a Nautilus for $337,000 that is three years old. Retail is $94k. First off, what the hell, and second, really what the hell. Obviously designed for people to buy just because they can not because they are actually any better .

Not posting MSRP online smacks of dishonesty. What are you trying to hide? Why the big secret?

Plus, like Mike mentioned in his first post, posting MSRP weeds out the ‘Whistling Gofers’ .

Can someone provide me with a list of audio manufacturers who don't provide MSRP for their products.

The list is so so very long....

McIntosh
Audio Research
T+A

That is a start, other people can add their favorites.

Originally Posted by elliotg

That unfortunately is a scam. I worked for a while for a large internet preowned watch company that was purchased by a large AD. THat large AD was AD for over 50 brands including Rolex, Patek. AP etc.
Number one- THERE ARE NO LISTS
Number Two- There are no lists
That is dealer BS for screw you I am not giving you one unless you buy all kinds of other expensive items from us.
I had clients that could get any watch Rolex made, in a reasonable time, and get Patek watches as well . ( Patek makes far fewer watches than Rolex and some watches are truly unobtainable by most dealers and clients) however the list for most is just an excuse to get rid the client.
Look at how many of these watches are no available "second hand at prices well over retail"
A Rolex SS sky dweller is around 14500 new and it sells for over 20k "used" with no issues getting one "used" , same for Daytona's, Batman's, Subs etc.
This is nothing like audio however audio is very backward in its marketing, distribution, dealer agreements etc. The main reason audio tries to assign territories is because manufacturers make money selling product to dealers. They are their customer's not the end users

I think the ski industry marketing is world class. They manage to convince their customer base that they have to buy all new gear and clothes every year. Major developments/breakthroughs happen every year that turns your gear from last year into junk. And of course you don’t want to be seen on the slopes wearing the outdated outfits you bought last year.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

The list is so so very long....

McIntosh
Audio Research
T+A

That is a start, other people can add their favorites.

"Alternative facts" anyone. What a product is worth to an individual is another story.

Originally Posted by matt_zak

Joseph Audio, Conrad Johnson and Pass just to name a few.

See the post above.

Originally Posted by thedudeabides

Can someone provide me with a list of audio manufacturers who don't provide MSRP for their products.

Won't a due diligence Google Search get you those results?

Originally Posted by thedudeabides

"Alternative facts" anyone. What a product is worth to an individual is another story.

Alternative facts? Really, so you are saying these companies publish their price sheets? The only prices available are those products they allow the online retailers to sell (which is a very small segment of their offerings). Try finding a full price sheet for any of these. Go ahead I am waiting....

And just by using the phrase "Alternative Facts" you have lost most all credibility. There are facts and there are lies, there is no such thing as Alternative Facts, unless you are... (you know not worth getting into).

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Alternative facts? Really, so you are saying these companies publish their price sheets? The only prices available are those products they allow the online retailers to sell (which is a very small segment of their offerings). Try finding a full price sheet for any of these. Go ahead I am waiting....

And just by using the phrase "Alternative Facts" you have lost most all credibility. There are facts and there are lies, there is no such thing as Alternative Facts, unless you are... (you know not worth getting into).

I love how Shunyata does things. They give you MSRP for standard length, but if you want some odd custom configuration like 2.25m, you best call the dealer. For them to configure pricing for every possible combination would be a full time job! But giving standard length pricing gets everyone in the right lane for their budget.

To be honest, I think their approach to posting prices has HELPED their business! But then again, Caelin is very tuned in to what’s going on in the market, so I’m not surprised.

In my view it is absolutely ok to ask for a better price, but it is not ok to push it to a point of being obnoxious. It is also not ok to expect a dealer to not make money. After all they have expenses and they are actually in business to make money (hard concept for some people to understand). Getting irritated that you are not willing to go to bat for them to get a better price is over the top. They can establish a relationship with the dealer themselves if they want a discount for being a consistent customer.

Originally Posted by Kingrex

Very good point. Accuphase is probably a household name in Japan. No advertising necessary. In the USA its not so. It's quality is very buried in the noise of so many other choices.
And every darn customer is so self absorbed. Me me me. I get annoyed when friends ask me to make introductions to a dealer under the premises they can get a discount. As in at dealer cost. And some of the stuff is maybe list $700. I have to tell friends they should quit collecting a check from their boss. Why should they get paid for the work they do. It takes a moment to seep in. And when it does they are still irritated I am refusing to get them a deal.

time to start looking for new friends .......

Originally Posted by Mikado463

time to start looking for new friends .......

Or a true story...

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Try finding a full price sheet for any of these. Go ahead I am waiting.... just by using the phrase "Alternative Facts" you have lost most all credibility.

One example. Goto Reno Hifi and you can find all MSRP prices for any piece of Pass Labs gear. It may not be a "full" price list on one piece of paper (if that's what you mean) but the info is clearly available on line. See the link below. Also, every review that I've ever read on an audio product does provide MSRP info. Are you done waiting now? DUH!

I don't know why you are being so insulting and demeaning. I've merely stated my facts as I understand them and have said nothing to you to justify your negative attitude towards me. You seem to think other wise. No-one else on this forum has reacted to my posts the way you have. Oh well. Go find some else to kick.

I'm done responding to your nonsense and will take your comment regarding my loss of credibility as a compliment. Bye Mr. Myers

Reno Hi-Fi. Goto "in stock / new - demo" on the website home page.

Originally Posted by elliotg

That unfortunately is a scam. I worked for a while for a large internet preowned watch company that was purchased by a large AD. THat large AD was AD for over 50 brands including Rolex, Patek. AP etc.
Number one- THERE ARE NO LISTS
Number Two- There are no lists
That is dealer BS for screw you I am not giving you one unless you buy all kinds of other expensive items from us.
I had clients that could get any watch Rolex made, in a reasonable time, and get Patek watches as well . ( Patek makes far fewer watches than Rolex and some watches are truly unobtainable by most dealers and clients) however the list for most is just an excuse to get rid the client.
Look at how many of these watches are no available "second hand at prices well over retail"
A Rolex SS sky dweller is around 14500 new and it sells for over 20k "used" with no issues getting one "used" , same for Daytona's, Batman's, Subs etc.
This is nothing like audio however audio is very backward in its marketing, distribution, dealer agreements etc. The main reason audio tries to assign territories is because manufacturers make money selling product to dealers. They are their customer's not the end users

My Rolex/PP dealer gets 10 calls a week about the same 10 watches. It's really just an "investment" mania - I truly want to know how many sales prints of $65k Nautilus there really are - I've heard its just dealers going back and forth and not customer based.

In my view, pricing has two components.

1) Recoup costs for development phase.

2) Price the product based on similar from other manufacturers and / or price what you think the market will bear regardless of the competition.

Only the customer can decide if the final purchase price (whatever that may be) is justifiable based on personal biases, manufacturer reputation, affordability, and other misc. factors.

Originally Posted by matt_zak

Joseph Audio, Conrad Johnson and Pass just to name a few.

Now that I've provided pricing info on Pass, I'll leave it to you to research CJ and Joseph Audio.

Originally Posted by thedudeabides

You want me to find out about CJ and Joseph Audio?

Here is the Joseph MFG site, show me anywhere on any page where they provide prices.

Joseph Audio

Just do your research. They are available in the individual product reviews. I know the Pulsar Graphene is $9K. I never said that all manufacturer websites post MSRP on their product lines. In fact, they usually don't. And I'm not going to waste my time on you either. Any more hostile comments from anyone?

Originally Posted by thedudeabides

Just do your research. They are available in the individual product reviews. I know the Pulsar Graphene is $9K. I never said that all manufacturer websites post MSRP on their product lines. And I'm not going to waste my time on you either. Any more hostile comments from anyone?

The whole point of this thread is that MFGs do not post prices and that you have to spend a bunch of time trying to find a price only to have wasted your time when you find out you can't afford it. Maybe you missed that part of the thread?

No, I didn't. Some do, some don't as stated in the initial post of the OP. Sometimes life is difficult Brian. And as you know, threads diverge into variants of the initial topic all the time. Happy holidays to you, matt, and, of course, Randy.

Coming to this discussion a bit late, but I'll add one more annoyance from not being able to see prices online... As a consumer in an area with almost zero B&M retail audio options, I don't even have the option of calling my dealer(s) to ask for the missing data. Instead, I'm on a side-quest to find out who might actually sell the item in question. Which brings Problem #2 - most manufacturers (large or small) do a dreadful job of providing an online listing of their dealers, and are even worse at knowing what products they have on the floor. So now I don't have a price or know who to call to inquire about one. So I call / email the manufacturer, who usually takes a couple of days to provide me with a name of someone halfway across the country who doesn't actually handle that brand actively any more, and certainly doesn't have the product available to hear. By that point, I've decided to give up on whatever the shiny new item might have been. I could call Mike if I know he carries it, but since I'm unlikely to buy a 5-figure piece of audio gear without an audition, I don't want to waste his time. Someone's lost a sale, and the customer walks away from the brand entirely to find someone more eager to sell their wares.

It's as though the audio industry has decided that gear above a certain price point requires a set of secret handshakes to gain access to the option of even considering a purchase. Simply making a portal of information available including pricing and who sells it seems like such a simple and necessary marketing option that I really struggle with any of the reasons why it wouldn't be done. I would almost certainly have purchased more or different items (and quite possibly more expensive ones at that) if simple information like list prices and who sells it was more readily available. I have no objection to not being able to complete the sale online (I still want to hear before I buy, so online audio sales don't much appeal to me), but at least make the starting point of MSRP and retailer available.

Disclaimer: I work in a high-end industry where no specific pricing is public except for gross generalizations in trade magazine articles. The conventional wisdom has been that the market is small enough, the number of manufacturers in the market is small enough (less than 10), and the cost of entry is high enough that anyone truly interested in the product is either already known to the manufacturers or will have no trouble finding us for an inquiry. All product is also generally sold directly from the manufacturer, not through a dealer network. Still, I do wonder if we miss out on potential sales by not being transparent enough - do people think our wares are even more expensive than they actually are, and decide not to even try?

Audio gear has too many choices of make and model and the target market is too broad for this method to make any sense to me, though. Concerns about international variation in prices are a weak excuse too. I know a BMW costs far less in the USA than the same car does in Germany (or Singapore), even if it were feature-for-feature identical...because BMW doesn't try to hide it. Go "build" the car on the different countries BMW site, and there it is. The manufacturer has made a choice to price things that way, and of course international tariffs play a role too. Audio is really fundamentally no different in why there might be variation.