Welcome to the AudioShark Forums.
Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1

    Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Long ago, recordings were made live. The musicians went to the recording studio and played together. That is certainly true of jazz recordings from the 50’s and likely 60’s.

    Today’s music is recorded by musicians that may or may not be in the same studio with the other musicians. They likely don’t even play in the same room. The ambience, room acoustics, ‘space’ between instruments, soundstage are all fake! They are created in a studio by the producer/engineer. And here we are trying to rate recordings and sound based on a created (‘fake’) environment? Live recordings of course are the exception.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    1,120

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Live recordings, perhaps; live albums, not necessarily. They often have studio overdubs and other effects added later.

    BTW, this is hardly news. In fact many of today's artists take pride in what they can create in the studio with no intention of playing the music live.
    Rob
    __________________________

    Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod
    Pass Labs INT60
    Daedalus Audio Ulysses v.2
    REL S3
    Daedalus/Wywires and Acoustic Zen cables
    Torus IS5

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,491

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    even more shock. a lot of music is made on a laptop computer and can sound absolutely glorious.

    so what?
    Source: TW Raven AC-3 - Thales Simplicity II, Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,Technics SL-1000MK3D,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas SL Etna SL, Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
    Phono Stage: TW Acustik phono, Accuphase C-37
    EQ: ​DEQX HDP-4
    Preamp: conrad johnson GAT,
    Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
    Speakers: Wilson Maxx3

  4. #4
    Audioshark
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    25,640

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Recording things piecemeal definitely takes away some of the vibe. I remember hearing stories of Elvis who loved to record in the wee hours of the morning. He would have the band play gospel music for hours before they got into the rock & roll.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, EMM Labs, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stenheim Loudspeakers, Stillpoints, T+A Electronics, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  5. #5

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by rbbert View Post

    BTW, this is hardly news. In fact many of today's artists take pride in what they can create in the studio with no intention of playing the music live.
    Yeah, because they probably CAN'T play music live without the benefit of studio cutting, editing, etc. In other words, they may not be as good as those musicians who had to do full takes without the benefit of technology. And don't forget singers who need auto-tuning software.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,774

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Sinatra was famous for one take will full Orchestra.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R with 4point 9 arm & Kuzma 40 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum Pre Amp and Monos | Boulder Phono 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Valhalla 2/Odin: power, interconnects & speaker | Ansuz: C2 power & interconnect | Audioquest Diamond RJ45’s
    Power: Nordost QRT series | Furutech FP55SN cable from 20 amp breakers to Furutech GTX D NSF packages | Keces P3 & P8 | ADD POWR series | Environmental Potential EP2050
    Other: HRS M3X | Stillpoints Ultra 6, SS & Mini | Nordost Sort Cones TC & BC | AQ Vox SE switch | etherREGEN | Gigafoil v4 | Vicoustics | Audio Desk Systeme - Gläss








  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,491

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Yeah, because they probably CAN'T play music live without the benefit of studio cutting, editing, etc. In other words, they may not be as good as those musicians who had to do full takes without the benefit of technology. And don't forget singers who need auto-tuning software.
    You mean like The Beatles, Pink Floyd and 1000's of other very successful artists ?
    Source: TW Raven AC-3 - Thales Simplicity II, Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,Technics SL-1000MK3D,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas SL Etna SL, Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
    Phono Stage: TW Acustik phono, Accuphase C-37
    EQ: ​DEQX HDP-4
    Preamp: conrad johnson GAT,
    Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
    Speakers: Wilson Maxx3

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Posts
    2,361

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Yes. I’m not sure if there is a relationship between listening to different stereo methods. They are all great.
    Bud

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for preamp, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  9. #9

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    You mean like The Beatles, Pink Floyd and 1000's of other very successful artists ?
    None of the Beatles were actually able to read music, nor was Pavarotti.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Soulution 520 preamp with phono/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist MK II/ Soulution 511/ WyWires Platinum ICs/ Semi-active Lansche Audio 4.2 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ 2x Audioquest Thunder HD for LS/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata AlphaHC (x2)+Alpha+Alpha Analogue+Alpha Digital/ Finite Elemente Pagode/ Stillpoints Ultra SS.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,491

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    None of the Beatles were actually able to read music, nor was Pavarotti.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Neither can Bob Dylan
    Source: TW Raven AC-3 - Thales Simplicity II, Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,Technics SL-1000MK3D,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas SL Etna SL, Delos, Dynavector XV-1s,Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon ESC'd 103R, DL-S1, Audio Technica AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
    Phono Stage: TW Acustik phono, Accuphase C-37
    EQ: ​DEQX HDP-4
    Preamp: conrad johnson GAT,
    Amps: conrad johnson teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum S250
    Speakers: Wilson Maxx3

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    The Gem State
    Posts
    148

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Perhaps it’s like sausage. You can enjoy the finished product but you might not want to know how it’s made.
    Gary
    Accuphase E-650; Lumin A1; Tannoy Canterbury GR

  12. #12

    Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    The thing is, recording technology has just become more sophisticated today, easier to handle and more compact. So it fits into smaller spaces and can be used more widely. That’s called evolution, I guess.

    For the initiated, this is nothing new and has been done for the past fifty years. It’s now just simpler. In tape-age recording engineers physically cut tapes, and attached them together again with adhesive tape to remove parts they did not like. Has been done all along, now it’s just quicker and less audible. Was a huge deal when Pyramid developed that capability for DSD recordings only a couple years back.

    In most of today’s pop recordings the vocal track is usually a piecemeal of several takes, there are often overdubs if the artists voice doesn’t carry enough otherwise, and typically electronic pitch correction is applied because lots of the pretty faces can’t carry a tone.

    On the other hand, music is also becoming more complex and multi-layered. On Steve Vai’s Passion and Warfare the über-technical soli are assembled from 15-20 different takes, because they’re just so difficult to play. It would take ages to get them right at one go. And good ‘ol Steve is definitely not lacking skill.

    Also, people who definitely can play live, like Mark Knopfler, do have recording studios in the comfort of their city home, and prefer to assemble their tracks in layers. It’s not anymore that you need a Paisley Park to do it.

    Another perspective is, similarly as remote working is emerging in offices, that’s been the case in music for a while now. For production cost reasons and due to time constraints, excellent recordings have been put together where the musicians never physically met in the same studio.

    In a way, that’s not massively different from what happened with ‘Art Pepper: Meets the Rhythm Section’, where the solist and band came together for the first time on recording day and played their parts simultaneously, but almost independently from each other. That’s the reason, why the recording engineers decided to put Art on one and the Rhythm Section on the other channel.

    That said, I also appreciate my Bach Starker vinyl, where the artist recorded everything live in the studio in two days. An increasingly rare skill.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Soulution 520 preamp with phono/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist MK II/ Soulution 511/ WyWires Platinum ICs/ Semi-active Lansche Audio 4.2 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ 2x Audioquest Thunder HD for LS/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata AlphaHC (x2)+Alpha+Alpha Analogue+Alpha Digital/ Finite Elemente Pagode/ Stillpoints Ultra SS.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Hyderabad India
    Posts
    790

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    I am also in the camp that doesn't see modern recording techniques as a complete negative but I get where nicoff is coming from.

    In 2007 synthpop electronic artist Adam Young made his hit song "Fireflies", under the stage name Owl City, in his parents' basement. The song and album "Ocean Eyes" went on to become certified Platinum and launched a generation of singer songwriters who used social media platforms for discovery.




    Another fantastic example is the multi continent collaborative effort "Playing for Change"
    https://playingforchange.com/about/







    .
    2 Channel Stereo :
    Win10 Transport + Fidelizer 8 + JRMC 26 & HQPlayer | Job INT | Western Electric 12GA | Green Mountain Audio Eos HX

  14. #14

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    This very nice piano recording was recorded w/o the player present.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Soulution 520 preamp with phono/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist MK II/ Soulution 511/ WyWires Platinum ICs/ Semi-active Lansche Audio 4.2 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ 2x Audioquest Thunder HD for LS/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata AlphaHC (x2)+Alpha+Alpha Analogue+Alpha Digital/ Finite Elemente Pagode/ Stillpoints Ultra SS.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  15. #15

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    They are created in a studio by the producer/engineer. And here we are trying to rate recordings and sound based on a created (‘fake’) environment?
    Probably true.
    And yet they never sounded so good like now!

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    744

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    I guess classical music recordings come closest to the live performance.
    Often they even are live recordings.
    Not too much ediiting, although it does happen that the recording engineer takes pieces from different concerts.

    That being said, after having seen a documentary on the making of 'Sergeant Pepper's', I do appreciate the mixing and editing of a record even more.
    The Beatles made an art from it. They were real pioneers.
    As were the Beach Boys. 'Pet Sounds': I loved the documentary!
    Piink Floyd then iin the 70s, and Krafwerk.
    It became mainstream in pop music afterwards.
    Vivid Audio - Burmester - Hegel - Marantz - Oppo - Pioneer 60" - Wireworld

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    143

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    I hate most auto-tune vocals but many people seem to like it. The world is big enough to accommodate both types.

    It's easy to get caught up in process when it's the final result that matters. This happens often in visual art too; some work is ALL about process and backstory. (At brief moments my own work has fallen into this trap to my dismay.) For someone like me who tends to judge art on aesthetics, learning that backstory / process may be momentarily interesting but the final product has to stand on its own without the crutch of documentation. Viewers in the future will not know or care about the process or the level of "talent" the artist had.

    I seem to be one of the few that is not trying reproduce the sound a live concert with my audio setup. I just want to hear everything that is on the recording, no matter how that recording was made, and I don't think a live performance is somehow "more correct" than a well crafted studio record.
    Bryston BDP-2…Schiit Yggdrasil...Lyngdorf TDAI 3400…BMC PureVox
    Black Cat Tombo Tron BNC…Cerious Graphene Extreme XLR...ELF Super Helix
    Torus RM15...Shunyata Alpha HC…Mad Scientist First...HF Reveal


  18. #18

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrppv View Post
    I seem to be one of the few that is not trying reproduce the sound a live concert with my audio setup. I just want to hear everything that is on the recording, no matter how that recording was made, and I don't think a live performance is somehow "more correct" than a well crafted studio record.
    Completely agree.
    Especially what I reinforced in your text

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    The Neutral Zone
    Posts
    194

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    In one sense all recorded music is fake. It’s just a matter of degree. I’ve come to love the fakery in various forms, some subtle, some not so much. Some things like drum machines and Autotune take the humanity out of recorded music. I hate it when that happens.
    Tom

    Audio:
    Amati Futura Mains
    Amati Homage VOX Center,
    Proac Response 1sc Rears,
    Three MC2301's for L,C,R
    MC 602 for the rears
    C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
    Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
    SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

    Video:
    MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

    Lake House:
    Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3

    OnDeck:
    McIntosh MAC 4300v

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Seattle Washington USA
    Posts
    919

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Isn't there a Frank Sinatra and company album where the current artist dub their vocals onto old tapes. Walaaa, a new album.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    675

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    The newest Phish album was recorded together in Trey Anastasio's "barn" which is his studio in Vermont. It's amazing how much better it sounds.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Processor: EMM Labs PRE
    HT Processor: Bryston SP3
    Amps: Bryston 28b3s, Bryston 4b3, Bryston 9bsst2
    Digital: EMM NS1, EMM DA2
    Speakers: Kef Reference 5, Kef Reference 4c, Kef Ci200RR-THX (surround/back)
    Subs: Two JL Audio F212v2
    Power: PS Audio PS10, Bryston BIT15
    Wires: Wireworld Silver Eclipse XLR & SC, Ethernet - WW Platinum USB
    Other: Stillpoint Ultra SS, ISO-Acoustics ISO Pucks
    Video: Oppo 203, LG 65inch OLED
    -Kyle

  22. #22

    Re: Most of today’s recordings are ‘fake’

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Yeah, because they probably CAN'T play music live without the benefit of studio cutting, editing, etc. In other words, they may not be as good as those musicians who had to do full takes without the benefit of technology. And don't forget singers who need auto-tuning software.
    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    You mean like The Beatles, Pink Floyd and 1000's of other very successful artists ?
    And Frank Zappa who had technically brilliant musicians, while being one himself. Editing was his modus operandi, with incredible musical results to boot.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.

AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.

The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.

At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.

We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!

Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com

Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.

Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •