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  1. #1
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    Mega buck systems.

    I was browsing the Munich thread and most of the pics were of super expensive systems. I wonder if there is actually a market for systems like these. Where I live the Magico dealers donít have anything above the S5 or most likely only the S3 in store. The Raidho dealers stop at the D3 and Wilson dealers might have a Sabrina or Yvette but nothing above that.
    So I wonder if there actually is a market for the mega buck systems (systems above Ä100k) or if the top end speakers, DACs, etc are mostly for marketing purposes.
    Pre amp: Ocatve Phono Module Power amps: Octave MRE130 Turntable: SAC Girati Grande. Tonearm: Dynavector 507mkII Cartridge: Dynavector Ikeda 9TT Streamer: Aurender A10 Power Distributor: Anzus Mains D8 Speakers: Raidho X-3 Speaker Cables: AudioQuest Rocket 88 XLR Interlink: Ansuz A2, XLR Interlink: Purist Audio Design - Venustas Phono interlink: Cammino Serie 1.0 - PH 1.0s Power cables: Anzus Mains Ceramic, two Pom, Aluminium, X series Audio Rack: Rack of Silence 4 and 2.

  2. #2
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    There are very few people in the world that can truly afford the Uber expensive gear.

    The median income for a family of 4 in the Minneapolis area is 67,000. If I recall, West Palm Beach was around 51,000. 100k in disposable cash is more than most people will ever see. When a product reaches that price tag, itís not going to fly off the shelves.

    Not to mention the dealers buy the floor items, so itís a huge risk to have the mega buck items in stock given the incredibly small section of the population that could afford them.


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  3. #3
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    The people shopping for Harbeth 30.2ís are amazed someone actually buys a much more expensive speaker like Magico S5ís or Avantgarde Duoís. People buying S5ís are amazed someone buys a more expensive speaker like M3ís. People buying M3ís are.... you get the point.

    Yes, people buy equipment across a wide variety of price points.

    Iíve sold several pairs of speakers costing well over $150,000. What may surprise you is that 85% or my customers are not on any forum. Theyíre too busy installing knees and shoulders (Orthopedic Surgeon) or working as a world class eye surgeon or running multiple successful businesses or a top lawyer in Manhattan. I just spent two days in my store with a top attorney from New York because he disliked all the New York dealers and their attitudes and had several things to hear and buy to build out his system.

    As for demos, well, yes, we have to buy all of our equipment. Thatís why Iím very picky over what I bring in and only bring in what I love and what I would buy myself....because I do have to actually buy it!
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

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  4. #4

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordante View Post
    I was browsing the Munich thread and most of the pics were of super expensive systems. I wonder if there is actually a market for systems like these. Where I live the Magico dealers donít have anything above the S5 or most likely only the S3 in store. The Raidho dealers stop at the D3 and Wilson dealers might have a Sabrina or Yvette but nothing above that.
    So I wonder if there actually is a market for the mega buck systems (systems above Ä100k) or if the top end speakers, DACs, etc are mostly for marketing purposes.
    Yes Mega buck systems..


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  5. #5
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    Mega buck systems.

    Thereís a market for everything, the more expensive, fewer buyers

    I get what the OP is saying though

    Something else to ponder is items purchased and hardly used cost even more.

    Assuming one puts together a 100K system and listens to it 4 hours per week, for 5 years it comes to something like $96 per hour or $384 a week.

    For the finance guys what would that look if it was invested for that same period?

    For the psychology guys what would this do to a person not having the mega buck system?


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  6. #6
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishphan View Post
    There are very few people in the world that can truly afford the Uber expensive gear.

    The median income for a family of 4 in the Minneapolis area is 67,000. If I recall, West Palm Beach was around 51,000. 100k in disposable cash is more than most people will ever see. When a product reaches that price tag, it’s not going to fly off the shelves.

    Not to mention the dealers buy the floor items, so it’s a huge risk to have the mega buck items in stock given the incredibly small section of the population that could afford them.


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    The average income for a family with children would be around euro80k before tax. So after tax that would be around euro40k

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    The people shopping for Harbeth 30.2’s are amazed someone actually buys a much more expensive speaker like Magico S5’s or Avantgarde Duo’s. People buying S5’s are amazed someone buys a more expensive speaker like M3’s. People buying M3’s are.... you get the point.

    Yes, people buy equipment across a wide variety of price points.

    I’ve sold several pairs of speakers costing well over $150,000. What may surprise you is that 85% or my customers are not on any forum. They’re too busy installing knees and shoulders (Orthopedic Surgeon) or working as a world class eye surgeon or running multiple successful businesses or a top lawyer in Manhattan. I just spent two days in my store with a top attorney from New York because he disliked all the New York dealers and their attitudes and had several things to hear and buy to build out his system.

    As for demos, well, yes, we have to buy all of our equipment. That’s why I’m very picky over what I bring in and only bring in what I love and what I would buy myself....because I do have to actually buy it!
    Maybe it is because in the USA consumer goods tend to be cheaper and wages are higher.

    As example the S5mkII costs about $38k in the USA and $59k in the Netherlands in basic M cast finish. A surgeon working for hospital would earn between €70k and €130k a surgeon working for himself might earn max €250k annually before tax. So a surgeon at the top of his career can maybe afford a S5 mkII. A top lawyer might earn €250k.

    My dealer is also very picky. That is why he will not buy speakers for his store costing more than say €80k since there is no market for anything more expensive. He sometimes has a "statement product". Years back he had a pair of the Magico M5 speakers the wooden model and now he has the small EMM labs mono amps. But no shop actually has stuff like MSB dacs, TechDas turntables or Kronos turntables on stock. At least not with a few hundred km from where I live.

    There is another aspect to this as well why most shops don't have the super expensive gear on stock. But that is for another discussion.
    Pre amp: Ocatve Phono Module Power amps: Octave MRE130 Turntable: SAC Girati Grande. Tonearm: Dynavector 507mkII Cartridge: Dynavector Ikeda 9TT Streamer: Aurender A10 Power Distributor: Anzus Mains D8 Speakers: Raidho X-3 Speaker Cables: AudioQuest Rocket 88 XLR Interlink: Ansuz A2, XLR Interlink: Purist Audio Design - Venustas Phono interlink: Cammino Serie 1.0 - PH 1.0s Power cables: Anzus Mains Ceramic, two Pom, Aluminium, X series Audio Rack: Rack of Silence 4 and 2.

  7. #7
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Big egos generally need big expensive gear. The number of high end set ups (100k and up) that I've seen and heard that don't live up to their potential is greater than one would think.
    Cheers ! Ö. Dave

  8. #8
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordante View Post
    I was browsing the Munich thread and most of the pics were of super expensive systems.
    Yes, it looks more like a high fashion jewelry show.
    But keep in mind, it is very expensive to exhibit there. I think close to 10k euro for even a small room, far more for the bigger ones. As such, it would make little sense for a manufacturer to show their entry level $1-3k equipment...even though that is probably what the vast majority of show attendees can afford. Especially the younger crowd "budding audiophile", which many high end writers pay lip service lamenting about...then go on to swoon almost exclusively over the mega price jewelry.
    If the exhibit spaces were significantly less costly, an exhibitor might be more tempted to show both lower and higher ends of line, perhaps in multiple rooms, as to appeal to a wider array of the spectrum of attendees. Perhaps a win win for both seller and consumer.

  9. #9

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    The people shopping for Harbeth 30.2’s are amazed someone actually buys a much more expensive speaker like Magico S5’s or Avantgarde Duo’s. People buying S5’s are amazed someone buys a more expensive speaker like M3’s. People buying M3’s are.... you get the point.

    Yes, people buy equipment across a wide variety of price points.

    I’ve sold several pairs of speakers costing well over $150,000. What may surprise you is that 85% or my customers are not on any forum. They’re too busy installing knees and shoulders (Orthopedic Surgeon) or working as a world class eye surgeon or running multiple successful businesses or a top lawyer in Manhattan. I just spent two days in my store with a top attorney from New York because he disliked all the New York dealers and their attitudes and had several things to hear and buy to build out his system.

    As for demos, well, yes, we have to buy all of our equipment. That’s why I’m very picky over what I bring in and only bring in what I love and what I would buy myself....because I do have to actually buy it!
    Mike, you brought a good point. I really don't understand why manufactures expect dealers to pay full MSRP to demo their products? Wouldn't it be better if they loan few samples to the dealers for demo with condition that if dealers able to sell certain number of units in certain time period then dealers don't have to pay for the demo samples or just pay only manufacturing costs. They don't have to carry the entire lines but just few samples. This way dealers don't have to invest so much in inventory, manufactures able to increase their dealer networks, and increase sales. These days more and more B&M stores are closing and cost of high end gears are getting higher and higher. My jaw dropped when I looked at the price of new Dynaudio Confidence line, Dan D'agostino monster monoblocks costing $250K per pair.

  10. #10
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by ben View Post
    Mike, you brought a good point. I really don't understand why manufactures expect dealers to pay full MSRP to demo their products? Wouldn't it be better if they loan few samples to the dealers for demo with condition that if dealers able to sell certain number of units in certain time period then dealers don't have to pay for the demo samples or just pay only manufacturing costs. They don't have to carry the entire lines but just few samples. This way dealers don't have to invest so much in inventory, manufactures able to increase their dealer networks, and increase sales. These days more and more B&M stores are closing and cost of high end gears are getting higher and higher. My jaw dropped when I looked at the price of new Dynaudio Confidence line, Dan D'agostino monster monoblocks costing $250K per pair.
    An awesome idea. I would support that big time. To their credit, thatís what Lampizator did with me and they were rewarded with sales they would not have otherwise received.


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  11. #11

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    An awesome idea. I would support that big time. To their credit, that’s what Lampizator did with me and they were rewarded with sales they would not have otherwise received.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Glad to hear that. See Lampizator thinks out of box and it worked for them. Too many high end companies lack common business sense. They are great innovator but not great businessmen.

  12. #12
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    The people shopping for Harbeth 30.2’s are amazed someone actually buys a much more expensive speaker like Magico S5’s or Avantgarde Duo’s. People buying S5’s are amazed someone buys a more expensive speaker like M3’s. People buying M3’s are.... you get the point.

    Yes, people buy equipment across a wide variety of price points.

    I’ve sold several pairs of speakers costing well over $150,000. What may surprise you is that 85% or my customers are not on any forum. They’re too busy installing knees and shoulders (Orthopedic Surgeon) or working as a world class eye surgeon or running multiple successful businesses or a top lawyer in Manhattan. I just spent two days in my store with a top attorney from New York because he disliked all the New York dealers and their attitudes and had several things to hear and buy to build out his system.

    As for demos, well, yes, we have to buy all of our equipment. That’s why I’m very picky over what I bring in and only bring in what I love and what I would buy myself....because I do have to actually buy it!
    My post may be a little OT, but something Mike said made me want to say something.

    This reminded me of an experience I had last year. I went to my favorite Portland, OR dealer to ask about auditioning a pair of speakers. They are a Spendor dealer. I really wanted to audition the SP100 speakers, but was told they would have to first buy a pair in order to have them in store. At $10k they'd be lucky to sell one pair per year. If I didn't like them enough to buy them, the dealer might be stuck with them for many months or longer. It turns out no one within many hundreds of miles had a pair. I did spend 2 hours listening to their Focal Sopra No.3 demo speakers, but decided they weren't what I wanted.

    Soon after, I drove something like 6 hours north to the Daedalus Audio showroom/workspace to audition three pairs of floor standers. That was enough to convince me to buy a pair of Lou's new Apollo speakers. A six hour drive is nothing to sneeze at, but it beats having to fly to LA, Chicago, or New York to audition a pair of SP100 speakers. It must be tough to be a brick & mortar dealer now.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by mresseguie View Post
    My post may be a little OT, but something Mike said made me want to say something.

    This reminded me of an experience I had last year. I went to my favorite Portland, OR dealer to ask about auditioning a pair of speakers. They are a Spendor dealer. I really wanted to audition the SP100 speakers, but was told they would have to first buy a pair in order to have them in store. At $10k they'd be lucky to sell one pair per year. If I didn't like them enough to buy them, the dealer might be stuck with them for many months or longer. It turns out no one within many hundreds of miles had a pair. I did spend 2 hours listening to their Focal Sopra No.3 demo speakers, but decided they weren't what I wanted.

    Soon after, I drove something like 6 hours north to the Daedalus Audio showroom/workspace to audition three pairs of floor standers. That was enough to convince me to buy a pair of Lou's new Apollo speakers. A six hour drive is nothing to sneeze at, but it beats having to fly to LA, Chicago, or New York to audition a pair of SP100 speakers. It must be tough to be a brick & mortar dealer now.
    It's definitely interesting. I come from a background of over 25 years dealing with huge multi-billion dollar companies like Coca-Cola, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Nike, US Army, Navy, etc. So, I find the audio industry a refreshing change, but not without its quirks thats for sure. I would love to sometime sit down over a drink and tell you about some of the interesting things that go on. For the most part, the manufacturers are awesome. Really terrific people and fun to deal with. They are also very supportive.

    As for the model of speaker you wanted to hear, I can sympathize with that other dealer. I've had more than a few folks ask about the S7's and I have the A3's, S3 mk2's, S5 mk2's and M3's. You just can't have them all. Luckily, I have local customers who have been willing to open up their homes and demo their S7's with me for the customer.
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  14. #14

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by ben View Post
    Mike, you brought a good point. I really don't understand why manufactures expect dealers to pay full MSRP to demo their products? Wouldn't it be better if they loan few samples to the dealers for demo with condition that if dealers able to sell certain number of units in certain time period then dealers don't have to pay for the demo samples or just pay only manufacturing costs. They don't have to carry the entire lines but just few samples. This way dealers don't have to invest so much in inventory, manufactures able to increase their dealer networks, and increase sales. These days more and more B&M stores are closing and cost of high end gears are getting higher and higher. My jaw dropped when I looked at the price of new Dynaudio Confidence line, Dan D'agostino monster monoblocks costing $250K per pair.
    What makes you you think dealers pay full MSRP for any products they purchase from an OEM?
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  15. #15
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    The number of high end set ups (100k and up) that I've seen and heard that don't live up to their potential is greater than one would think.
    Agreed.

    Nowhere close to their true potential as opposed to how they perform when (or if) set-up properly.

    And yes, there are definitely a number of components that simply don't compete at their price points.

    IMO.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    The truth is if you can make one sale off a show, then you might as well make it a big one.

    As for loaning gear to dealers, less established manufacturers are more keen on that. When it comes to the big boys, they want dealers who can push the product and show they are serious about selling it. They want a dealer who will buy-in because it shows a commitment. If you buy into the product, you are also more inclined to sell it because of said commitment.

    I personally wouldn't want this to be an industry where loaners were the standard. It would create a ton of mess and might cause the dealer networks to implode even more than they did a decade ago. The idea is that if the dealer commits to the manufacturer/distributor, then the commitment is reciprocated.

  17. #17

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    Agreed.

    Nowhere close to their true potential as opposed to how they perform when (or if) set-up properly.

    And yes, there are definitely a number of components that simply don't compete at their price points.

    IMO.
    Personally, I feel, and appropriately so, most of the stuff in the higher price points have a higher bar set. One of the big problems is most of these products are judged at shows where they are definitely less than ideal locations for them to be judged. if you have a dealer like Mike, who has, from what I understand (and one day I will get over to Tampa to see and hear) a good showroom properly setup you may get a better understanding for the product. BUT even then, you are listening in showroom conditions with multiple variables and difficult to truly grasp the product you are judging; whether it be a speaker, DAC, etc. Mike was kind enough to lend a guy a Select to compare it to his dCS stack; there it is one variable, in ones system that the customer can truly judge for himself.

    Then of course, and I see this just too often, you have clients who believe the equipment "makes" the system and their room will never allow the system to perform to spec. My days of dealing high end audio in NYC back in the 80s was filled with people flipping equipment because it never sounded the way they felt it changing equipment was the answer rather than the room or buying a system fit for the size and customization of the their room.

    Before judging a product to compete on their respective price points, the system should be optimized.

    Just one other point regarding a statistical perspective. The more popular products, such as Wilson, Magico, Audio Research and a host of others by the very nature will have more opportunity to be heard and as a result more opportunity to be heard in optimal circumstances than the less popular brands; because their are more dealers, more in customers homes, more being shown at shows in more rooms, etc. One of my gripes with the less popular brands is IF they are going to swing for a grand slam, if they don't get it right at a show, since there are so few other places to hear them, a strike out can have dire consequences; for these guys it is a tough call; do they show their super expensive product at a show with the inherent risks or optimize for their less costly products?

  18. #18

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    The truth is if you can make one sale off a show, then you might as well make it a big one.

    As for loaning gear to dealers, less established manufacturers are more keen on that. When it comes to the big boys, they want dealers who can push the product and show they are serious about selling it. They want a dealer who will buy-in because it shows a commitment. If you buy into the product, you are also more inclined to sell it because of said commitment.

    I personally wouldn't want this to be an industry where loaners were the standard. It would create a ton of mess and might cause the dealer networks to implode even more than they did a decade ago. The idea is that if the dealer commits to the manufacturer/distributor, then the commitment is reciprocated.
    They also want the dealer to mitigate their costs. Every time a new product is released, it is up to the dealer to sell their demo, not the manufacturer and for the dealer to buy a new demo and despite it being purchased at "dealer cost" if the manufacturer has enough dealers, as with Wilson and Magico, they have already guaranteed themselves a profit or a significant reduction of risk. Dealers are one of the best "customers" for the manufacturers.

  19. #19
    DSkip
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Priaptor View Post
    They also want the dealer to mitigate their costs. Every time a new product is released, it is up to the dealer to sell their demo, not the manufacturer and for the dealer to buy a new demo and despite it being purchased at "dealer cost" if the manufacturer has enough dealers, as with Wilson and Magico, they have already guaranteed themselves a profit or a significant reduction of risk. Dealers are one of the best "customers" for the manufacturers.
    Which goes hand in hand with my statement. The manufacturer has a responsibility to produce the best product they can at that price point and in return, its the dealers job to buy in and generate the sales. Obviously there is more to it than that, but the gist is there.

    Technically, the dealers should be the ONLY customers for the manufacturers.

  20. #20
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by ben View Post
    Mike, you brought a good point. I really don't understand why manufactures expect dealers to pay full MSRP to demo their products? Wouldn't it be better if they loan few samples to the dealers for demo with condition that if dealers able to sell certain number of units in certain time period then dealers don't have to pay for the demo samples or just pay only manufacturing costs. They don't have to carry the entire lines but just few samples. This way dealers don't have to invest so much in inventory, manufactures able to increase their dealer networks, and increase sales. These days more and more B&M stores are closing and cost of high end gears are getting higher and higher. My jaw dropped when I looked at the price of new Dynaudio Confidence line, Dan D'agostino monster monoblocks costing $250K per pair.
    I think there are some problems with this idea. Most manufacturers don't deal with dealers, they deal with distributors. Distributors are often not big companies. I have seen distributors where only one persons works. Sometimes even as a side job because there is little money to be earned in it. Some distributors are a little bigger but most of the time no bigger than three of four people.

    Also some brands/distributors "force" shops to sell the whole product line while the retailer might only be interested in one or two products.
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  21. #21
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordante View Post
    I think there are some problems with this idea. Most manufacturers don't deal with dealers, they deal with distributors. Distributors are often not big companies. I have seen distributors where only one persons works. Sometimes even as a side job because there is little money to be earned in it. Some distributors are a little bigger but most of the time no bigger than three of four people.

    Also some brands/distributors "force" shops to sell the whole product line while the retailer might only be interested in one or two products.
    Thatís changing because too many distributors acted like sole sellers.


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  22. #22

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    My slogan is cheapest price by max performance and I have a lot of success in German with thatMega buck systems.


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  23. #23

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    What makes you you think dealers pay full MSRP for any products they purchase from an OEM?
    Then what price dealers pay to buy demo gears?

  24. #24
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordante View Post
    The average income for a family with children would be around euro80k before tax. So after tax that would be around euro40k



    Maybe it is because in the USA consumer goods tend to be cheaper and wages are higher.

    As example the S5mkII costs about $38k in the USA and $59k in the Netherlands in basic M cast finish. A surgeon working for hospital would earn between €70k and €130k a surgeon working for himself might earn max €250k annually before tax. So a surgeon at the top of his career can maybe afford a S5 mkII. A top lawyer might earn €250k.

    My dealer is also very picky. That is why he will not buy speakers for his store costing more than say €80k since there is no market for anything more expensive. He sometimes has a "statement product". Years back he had a pair of the Magico M5 speakers the wooden model and now he has the small EMM labs mono amps. But no shop actually has stuff like MSB dacs, TechDas turntables or Kronos turntables on stock. At least not with a few hundred km from where I live.

    There is another aspect to this as well why most shops don't have the super expensive gear on stock. But that is for another discussion.

    I think you might be surprised.
    I don't know how the situation is in the Netherlands, but in Belgium we still have a handful of stores (Antwerp, Gent, Brussels) with amazing gear in stock and on demo.

    As Mike stated, guys with megabuck systems don't always post on forums, but they do exist.
    And by the way, there are lawyers and doctors also in our countries who earn millions of € per year.
    As there are very wealthy people with their own business(es).
    And then you have people who retire, having saved a good sum of money, that buy a dream system for 100-200K.
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  25. #25
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    That’s changing because too many distributors acted like sole sellers.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Maybe it is changing in the states. But as far as I can tell not in Europe. Most manufacturers don't want to deal with all the different languages and different laws/rules within Europe. Also with the top brands you only need one or two points of sales within a country. So if the distributor is also the sole seller I don't see the problem. How many MSB point of sale doe you need in the EU? I would guess no more then three maybe four.
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  26. #26
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by bart View Post
    I think you might be surprised.
    I don't know how the situation is in the Netherlands, but in Belgium we still have a handful of stores (Antwerp, Gent, Brussels) with amazing gear in stock and on demo.

    As Mike stated, guys with megabuck systems don't always post on forums, but they do exist.
    And by the way, there are lawyers and doctors also in our countries who earn millions of € per year.
    As there are very wealthy people with their own business(es).
    And then you have people who retire, having saved a good sum of money, that buy a dream system for 100-200K.
    In the Netherlands there are as far as I know 3 high end audio shops.

    A10 Amsterdam http://a10audio.nl/
    Chattelin the Hague http://chattelin.nl
    Rhapsody Hilversum https://rhapsody.nl/

    I don't think one of them has the mega buck systems. They are all great stored and can provide great gear but don't expect them to have €250k speakers in store or a TechDas airforce one. According to the latest stats of all people who pay taxes about 1.3% earn more than €100k.

    My generation I'm borne in 1975 will never retire. I am estimating that buy the time I'll reach 70(retirement age) all the crooks (bankers and insurance people) will have made sure there will be no more retirement. Work till you die just like the pre war generation.
    Pre amp: Ocatve Phono Module Power amps: Octave MRE130 Turntable: SAC Girati Grande. Tonearm: Dynavector 507mkII Cartridge: Dynavector Ikeda 9TT Streamer: Aurender A10 Power Distributor: Anzus Mains D8 Speakers: Raidho X-3 Speaker Cables: AudioQuest Rocket 88 XLR Interlink: Ansuz A2, XLR Interlink: Purist Audio Design - Venustas Phono interlink: Cammino Serie 1.0 - PH 1.0s Power cables: Anzus Mains Ceramic, two Pom, Aluminium, X series Audio Rack: Rack of Silence 4 and 2.

  27. #27

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    The truth is if you can make one sale off a show, then you might as well make it a big one.

    As for loaning gear to dealers, less established manufacturers are more keen on that. When it comes to the big boys, they want dealers who can push the product and show they are serious about selling it. They want a dealer who will buy-in because it shows a commitment. If you buy into the product, you are also more inclined to sell it because of said commitment.

    I personally wouldn't want this to be an industry where loaners were the standard. It would create a ton of mess and might cause the dealer networks to implode even more than they did a decade ago. The idea is that if the dealer commits to the manufacturer/distributor, then the commitment is reciprocated.
    Manufactures have option to pick which dealers they want to work with. They have control of how large their products dealer network want to be. They can pick dealers and loan few samples. I don't agree with buy-in =shows commitment mentality. Dealer can buy entire line of Boulder gears and tie up his money in one brands inventory. He can be serious about selling Boulder gears but not everyone can afford and/or like Boulder products. Then what? How many Bryston, Ayre, Macintosh, Simaudio dealers buy entire line of products and have on display for demo? Dealers might want to expand particular brands in their showroom but they just don't have enough capital to invest in demo products. and other side when customers walks into dealership asking for particular model, they don't have available for audition.

  28. #28
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordante View Post
    In the Netherlands there are as far as I know 3 high end audio shops.

    A10 Amsterdam http://a10audio.nl/
    Chattelin the Hague http://chattelin.nl
    Rhapsody Hilversum https://rhapsody.nl/

    I don't think one of them has the mega buck systems. They are all great stored and can provide great gear but don't expect them to have €250k speakers in store or a TechDas airforce one. According to the latest stats of all people who pay taxes about 1.3% earn more than €100k.

    My generation I'm borne in 1975 will never retire. I am estimating that buy the time I'll reach 70(retirement age) all the crooks (bankers and insurance people) will have made sure there will be no more retirement. Work till you die just like the pre war generation.
    I think it's fair to say, what works in Europe doesn't work in the U.S. and visa versa. The European companies are the ones smartening up and creating U.S. divisions, essentially hiring a rep or two. I will tell you, for the most part, it works very well. There are of course a few exceptions and some exceptional distributors (instead of Manufacturer reps), but for the most part you don't have to look too far: CH, T+A, etc. All positive changes in my book.
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  29. #29
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    This thread has definitely got off topic. It was my fault.

    ....ok, back to megabuck systems!
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  30. #30
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    It was not so far off topic Mike, and it is interesting.
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  31. #31
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by bart View Post
    It was not so far off topic Mike, and it is interesting.
    True.
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  32. #32
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    This thread has definitely got off topic. It was my fault.

    ....ok, back to megabuck systems!
    All is fine IMHO as long as it's an interesting discussion.

    Also I'm a pessimist/nihilist/existentialist by nature so I prefer to see the gloom and doom.
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  33. #33

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    The top 0.2% of households in the US have net assets of $20M or more. That makes 250,000 households. Europe should be similar (larger population but fewer at the top end of assets). Not sure about Asia, but certainly Japan and China have large numbers of very wealthy households. I wouldn't be surprised if the total number of $20M net worth households worldwide is between 500,000 and 1,000,000. Take a look at an issue of Robb Report, the lifestyle magazine for the very wealthy (circulation around 175,000 monthly). There are ads for high end watches, cars, airplanes, and hifi equipment - like Wilson and Magico. (Robb Report was said to be Michael Jackson's favorite magazine!).

    I know a dealer for whom many (most?) of his clients are in the top category. Many (most?) of these high end clients want very personal service and they come to him because their friends recommend him and they have seen/heard their friends systems. They pay cash (no CC's) and always full retail. Price is secondary to the dealer's service, experience, knowledge and honesty. They will fly to his place to audition the equipment and he will ship a set of speakers or other equipment to their homes and then fly out to set the equipment up so they can audition in their own home at his own expense. Some have multiple residences and he has sold multiple systems, one or more for each residence. We have to remember that rich people have rich friends.

    Larry
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  34. #34
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordante View Post
    I was browsing the Munich thread and most of the pics were of super expensive systems. I wonder if there is actually a market for systems like these. Where I live the Magico dealers donít have anything above the S5 or most likely only the S3 in store. The Raidho dealers stop at the D3 and Wilson dealers might have a Sabrina or Yvette but nothing above that.
    So I wonder if there actually is a market for the mega buck systems (systems above Ä100k) or if the top end speakers, DACs, etc are mostly for marketing purposes.
    The only Wilson speaker my dealer doesn't have in his store for audition is the WAMM. In general that is the same for every product line he carries. All of the current products for McIntosh, Sonus Faber, Audio Research, B&W, and dCS. Occasionally he might not have both the 800 and 802 or the Aida II.
    Jim

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  35. #35

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordante View Post
    In the Netherlands there are as far as I know 3 high end audio shops.

    A10 Amsterdam http://a10audio.nl/
    Chattelin the Hague http://chattelin.nl
    Rhapsody Hilversum https://rhapsody.nl/

    I don't think one of them has the mega buck systems. They are all great stored and can provide great gear but don't expect them to have €250k speakers in store or a TechDas airforce one. According to the latest stats of all people who pay taxes about 1.3% earn more than €100k.

    My generation I'm borne in 1975 will never retire. I am estimating that buy the time I'll reach 70(retirement age) all the crooks (bankers and insurance people) will have made sure there will be no more retirement. Work till you die just like the pre war generation.
    Donít worry. Itís a blessing in a way. If you look at the statistics normalizing for ďhealthĒ those that retire earlier also die earlier so the jokes on them.

  36. #36

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    I retired at 45...guess I should start digging my hole now and making out the will. Who is going to get all my stereo equipment?? Hmmmm.
    Amps: D'agostino M400 Mono's, ARC REF 160M, Audio Note Jinro, First Watt SIT-3, Pass XA25, Valvet E2 SE, ARC 150M.

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  37. #37

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billion$Baby View Post
    I retired at 45...guess I should start digging my hole now and making out the will. Who is going to get all my stereo equipment?? Hmmmm.
    I don't know how you do it. I tried retiring at in 2007. I drove my wife crazy, my three dogs crazy and ultimately myself crazy. My retirement lasted all of 3 months.

    I understand different strokes for different folks but I couldn't handle retirement, it was way too STRESSFUL.

  38. #38

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billion$Baby View Post
    I retired at 45...guess I should start digging my hole now and making out the will. Who is going to get all my stereo equipment?? Hmmmm.
    I am thinking about the same too. No one else in the family appreciates the equipment. In fact they got no clue how much they cost me.


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  39. #39
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordante View Post

    Also I'm a pessimist/nihilist/existentialist by nature so I prefer to see the gloom and doom.
    Wow, I'm sure you're a lot of fun at a wedding ...........
    Cheers ! Ö. Dave

  40. #40
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraFast69 View Post
    Thereís a market for everything, the more expensive, fewer buyers

    I get what the OP is saying though

    Something else to ponder is items purchased and hardly used cost even more.

    Assuming one puts together a 100K system and listens to it 4 hours per week, for 5 years it comes to something like $96 per hour or $384 a week.

    For the finance guys what would that look if it was invested for that same period?

    For the psychology guys what would this do to a person not having the mega buck system?


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    Only 4 hours p/w? I am 20-30 hours p/w. Sometimes more. I am not at 100k. But that is not a bad hourly rate
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  41. #41
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    Wow, I'm sure you're a lot of fun at a wedding ...........
    Might be one of the few there with something thought provoking to talk about...
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
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  42. #42
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    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Priaptor View Post
    I don't know how you do it. I tried retiring at in 2007. I drove my wife crazy, my three dogs crazy and ultimately myself crazy. My retirement lasted all of 3 months.

    I understand different strokes for different folks but I couldn't handle retirement, it was way too STRESSFUL.
    I will be 69 in a few months, and still working. Need to if I want a mega buck system.
    Bud

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    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  43. #43

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    I will be 69 in a few months, and still working. Need to if I want a mega buck system.
    Congrats. Just turned 65. The way I see it all my retired pals are working while I bask in the world of work.

  44. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Leyden
    Posts
    520

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    Wow, I'm sure you're a lot of fun at a wedding ...........
    Knowing that life is meaningless and that the only one who can add a purpose/goals to life is yourself doesnt mean we cant be fun at parties.
    Pre amp: Ocatve Phono Module Power amps: Octave MRE130 Turntable: SAC Girati Grande. Tonearm: Dynavector 507mkII Cartridge: Dynavector Ikeda 9TT Streamer: Aurender A10 Power Distributor: Anzus Mains D8 Speakers: Raidho X-3 Speaker Cables: AudioQuest Rocket 88 XLR Interlink: Ansuz A2, XLR Interlink: Purist Audio Design - Venustas Phono interlink: Cammino Serie 1.0 - PH 1.0s Power cables: Anzus Mains Ceramic, two Pom, Aluminium, X series Audio Rack: Rack of Silence 4 and 2.

  45. #45

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordante View Post
    Knowing that life is meaningless and that the only one who can add a purpose/goals to life is yourself doesnt mean we cant be fun at parties.
    I agree with the philosophy. Iím a self-proclaimed misanthrope myself and very happy as people never disappoint me as I canít stand any of them. Plus Iím a riot at parties. Going to a wedding in 2 weeks which I initially said no to but the bride and groom begged me so I gave in.

    From my perch, dogs are so much more fun, trustworthy and smarter than humans.

  46. #46
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Wayne, PA USA
    Posts
    52

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    Big egos generally need big expensive gear. The number of high end set ups (100k and up) that I've seen and heard that don't live up to their potential is greater than one would think.
    + 1

  47. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Tampa
    Posts
    1,509

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Priaptor View Post
    From my perch, dogs are so much more fun, trustworthy and smarter than humans.
    Yeah, but they make very poor designers of electro-acoustic stereo equipment, so you'll have to put up with the humans for a bit more.

  48. #48

    Re: Mega buck systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    Yeah, but they make very poor designers of electro-acoustic stereo equipment, so you'll have to put up with the humans for a bit more.
    True. There are definitely exceptions to the rule.

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