"Listener Fatigue"

**Mike** · June 7, 2013, 06:58 PM

Ok, I'm not trying to be funny here, but I'm wondering did audiophiles ever use the word "listener fatigue" before the advent of digital?

I just don't remember that term ever being used in the 70's.

**JJinID** · June 7, 2013, 07:03 PM

Maybe from listening to too much disco?!?

**joeinid** · June 7, 2013, 07:13 PM

Ha!

**MusicDirector** · June 7, 2013, 07:17 PM

Not being an audiophile myself but growing up in the era, I have never heard the term at all. I have however, heard the term "listening fatigue" and "ear fatigue", but just within the last few years though.

**Mike** · June 7, 2013, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by JJinID

Maybe from listening to too much disco?!?

Too much ABBA?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370647257.687430.jpg

**Jerry Seh** · June 7, 2013, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Ok, I'm not trying to be funny here, but I'm wondering did audiophiles ever use the word "listener fatigue" before the advent of digital?

I just don't remember that term ever being used in the 70's.

Mike you are right on - as I also first heard this term when digital starts - CD's.

I was told by the then Linn dealer - that no matter what, vinyls is better than CD's - was looking at the first so called high end Sony CDP-101. As its a promise slogan - "good sound forever" or something like that, bite into that and bought the player. Discs were considerably expensive then and titles were scarce. Somehow I never experience that except for the occasional bad recordings or transfers. I suppose technology and techniques improve thru the years and this help lessen the "fatigue". Still, vinyl is still the medium that give much more "closeness, realism and feel" to the music.

Digital had gone a long way and its improving. Cant deny that ...

**still-one** · June 7, 2013, 07:30 PM

There was listener fatigue before CD. After having to get up and manually skip tracks on a LP by then end of an evenings listening session I would be suffering from Listener Fatigue.

**Mike** · June 7, 2013, 07:44 PM

My opinion is that a lot of the underlying early digital fatigue was indeed real, but subliminal. I witnessed my own Father go from an avid music lover and audiophile with several thousand LP's and a fabulous setup, spending hours listening to vinyl and R2R, to really being turned off music. It wasn't something that had him waving his arms and screaming "I can't take this anymore", but more gradual. Buying CD's hoping the next would sound better. I mean, it was a CD. It was supposed to sound better, right? It never did and eventually he just gave up.

I had been telling him for a few years now that vinyl was better. He kind of scoffed at the idea. The other day he couldn't wait to call and tell me his local music store (which he hadn't visited in years) was crammed full of records! The kid working behind the counter told my Dad "vinyl is the best man!" My Dad has asked me to fix his old Turntable when I visit him next. I've got a few fresh 200gram surprises for him!

Now that we are more aware of listener fatigue and can self identify it, we are seeing a resurgence in vinyl, tube gear and even some advances in digital (DSD) and solid state to "fix" earlier faults. Just as early vinyl (78's) sounded terrible, digital will continue to make advancements and may, one day, finally surpass analog/vinyl in the listener enjoyment (not fatigue!) category.

In the meantime, I think I'll spin another record....

**Mike** · June 7, 2013, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by still-one

There was listener fatigue before CD. After having to get up and manually skip tracks on a LP by then end of an evenings listening session I would be suffering from Listener Fatigue.

I bet those terrific Wilson speakers and D'Agostino gear would sound pretty darn good being fed by one of these....
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370648907.531332.jpg

**Rayooo** · June 7, 2013, 07:56 PM

Yea I always had listener fatigue before digital - from listening to all that scratched up vinyl. No more pops and clicks did wonders, Now I suffer from.' Don't know when to stop' kinda like anti-fatigue. Never, ever get tired of listening.

**still-one** · June 7, 2013, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

I bet those terrific Wilson speakers and D'Agostino gear would sound pretty darn good being fed by one of these....
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370648907.531332.jpg

Sorry Mike, the only think I like about turntables is their looks. I will probably always have one set-up in the system and might even play it twice a year. I am always looking for something to make the room look better.

**Mike** · June 7, 2013, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Rayooo

Yea I always had listener fatigue before digital - from listening to all that scratched up vinyl. No more pops and clicks did wonders, Now I suffer from.' Don't know when to stop' kinda like anti-fatigue. Never, ever get tired of listening.

LMAO! There are definitely two camps. Happy we have choices....

**Mike** · June 7, 2013, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by still-one

Sorry Mike, the only think I like about turntables is their looks. I will probably always have one set-up in the system and might even play it twice a year. I am always looking for something to make the room look better.

One of those babies would....and you may even like the sound of it.

**Rayooo** · June 7, 2013, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by still-one

Sorry Mike, the only think I like about turntables is their looks. I will probably always have one set-up in the system and might even play it twice a year. I am always looking for something to make the room look better.

yea those vinyl spinners sure are purdy!

**the professor** · June 7, 2013, 08:30 PM

For the original question - yes if heard of it but it was from solid state amps instead of using tubes.

**MDP** · June 7, 2013, 10:37 PM

I love vinyl, but I think fatigue is more recording dependent than source dependent. I have a Linn digital streamer which receives it's digital information from my NAS in packets.It sounds amazing. Personally I think streamers are one of the ways to really enjoy digital ! I listen to digital 90% of the time,and find it to sound wonderful with most of my recordings. I think that most of us have systems good enough to tell the difference between good and bad recordings. What I've tried to do with my system is get gear that makes the music I love sound the best it can.

**f1 fan** · June 7, 2013, 10:59 PM

Never heard of listener fatigue until digital came along. Yes, like many I jumped on the band wagon but kept my lp's. Years later after thousands of CDs bought I much prefer my vinyl which to think of it has never caused me to have listener fatigue. Time to spin some Miles...

Dave

**BlueFox** · June 7, 2013, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by still-one

There was listener fatigue before CD. After having to get up and manually skip tracks on a LP by then end of an evenings listening session I would be suffering from Listener Fatigue.

LOL. So true. Don't forget dropping the tone-arm with a manual turntable into a song while trying to hit the between song groove. That induced "Listener Cursing".

**Petro85** · June 8, 2013, 08:33 AM

I used to go to a friends house about 20 years ago. He is the one that put the high end seed in my head. He had big krell amps and a tank of a Phillips CD player . To be perfectly honest I loved the quality of the music but after an hour my head was ringing and I had to leave.
I moved out west after that . 2 years later I came back and looked him up and he was running an old michell table with a grado sonata. And a old tube amp with a luxman receiver of some sort. I loved it and as soon as I got settled and started making money again I started to put together a vinyl system. It's not that I did t like the digital stuff. Was just different, and definitely had listener fatigue.as soon as I heard a good vinyl setup that was instantly where I wanted to be. That's probably why I shy away from solid state as well.
But with today's technology I'm sure it's way way better than it was 20 years ago.

**ohbythebay** · June 8, 2013, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Ok, I'm not trying to be funny here, but I'm wondering did audiophiles ever use the word "listener fatigue" before the advent of digital?

I just don't remember that term ever being used in the 70's.

Hi Mike,

No expert hear but the term "listener fatigue" is generally due to an issue with the sound quality being too "bright" in the highs. Some carts for example can be too bright before break in or never smooth out. In those cases, cart loading is essential to roll off that overly bright situation.

Example, the AT440MLa MM runs at 47K (give or take what your cables pull in resistance) however; many feel it sounds better around 36K..this requires some method of loading (Y cables and resistor plugs for example)

In the case of digital, much harder to fix. If a CD player or DAC creates listener fatigue, you can usually attribute it to the Op Amps or the EQ caps...

does this help ?

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